DSG reliability and maintenance?

[Stopsign32v]

The more I look into the B8 and B8.5 the more it seems they are almost bullet proof except the DSG.

So with that being said what are the problems with the DSG and is there any way to make them last? What are the common costs involved with the DSG?

[Envy187]

So with that being said what are the problems with the DSG and is there any way to make them last?

Mechatronics issues are probably the biggest culprit. They happen to those that are stock, or tuned like crazy...or not at all, to either of the parties I just mentioned. It's truly just your luck of the draw.

2009 - 2011 S4's are "Generation 1" DSGs. 2012's had the "Generation 1.5"...and most B8.5's (from 2013 onward) had "Generation 2" DSGs. Some early 2013's had 1.5's as well.

If you happen to stumble on a B8 ('09 to '12), make an effort to go for the 2012's for the sake of them being an updated version of the DSG in comparison to early years...but there are examples of early years fairing quite well out there.

Please note: This is a forum, after all... so the scariest situations are amplified, but the platform is relatively reliable as a whole.

Make an effort to get a well-maintained vehicle (with earlier models having certain components replaced), change your fluids when necessary, and enjoy!

[Stopsign32v]

So the reliability of say a 2014-2016 should be good? How often do the clutches wear out and is this something that is normally replaced like a manual transmission clutch?

[Envy187]

So the reliability of say a 2014-2016 should be good? How often do the clutches wear out and is this something that is normally replaced like a manual transmission clutch?

On paper, yes - but they're not immune either. Cases pop up every so often on these forums randomly where even late-model B8.5 DSG's have issues.

As far as your second question, I'm not as well-versed to give you a definitive answer. I'm sure some of the manual S4 owners will chime in soon!

[Tkohli]

I have 2015 s4 with 59000kms.
I installed a unitronic stage 1+ with the tcu stage 2.

Recently after my 55000km Audi care service, there has been an little issue when I’m pushing the car.
The revs go up than back down a bit than back up again.

I am heading to the dealership soon to check this issue out.

Thanks

[TC_S4]

Mechatronics issues are probably the biggest culprit. They happen to those that are stock, or tuned like crazy...or not at all, to either of the parties I just mentioned. It's truly just your luck of the draw.

2009 - 2011 S4's are "Generation 1" DSGs. 2012's had the "Generation 1.5"...and most B8.5's (from 2013 onward) had "Generation 2" DSGs. Some early 2013's had 1.5's as well.

If you happen to stumble on a B8 ('09 to '12), make an effort to go for the 2012's for the sake of them being an updated version of the DSG in comparison to early years...but there are examples of early years fairing quite well out there.

Please note: This is a forum, after all... so the scariest situations are amplified, but the platform is relatively reliable as a whole.

Make an effort to get a well-maintained vehicle (with earlier models having certain components replaced), change your fluids when necessary, and enjoy!

Didn’t know earlier 2013 have generation 1.5 tranny. I thought starting 2013 all B8.5 have 2 generation tranny. Does anyone on the club have a 2013 with 1.5 tranny???

[Envy187]

Didn’t know earlier 2013 have generation 1.5 tranny. I thought starting 2013 all B8.5 have 2 generation tranny. Does anyone on the club have a 2013 with 1.5 tranny???

"The more you know". It pertains to the year your car was manufactured. Those details coincide with my statement.

[TC_S4]

I’ll get an 2013 and up, make sure it’s the generation 2. It very easy to know, if the rev limiter is at 6900rpm. It’s gen 1 or 1.5. If rev limiter is at 6400rpm it’s gen 2, of course we’re talking stock tranny. Just follow the maintenance schedule or little earlier for the DSG you should be good.

[wuster]

I’ll get an 2013 and up, make sure it’s the generation 2. It very easy to know, if the rev limiter is at 6900rpm. It’s gen 1 or 1.5. If rev limiter is at 6400rpm it’s gen 2, of course we’re talking stock tranny. Just follow the maintenance schedule or little earlier for the DSG you should be good.

interesting... I will test!

[Robdukes]

Its weird but mine is 2011 dsg and still going at 93k. Ive had some weird jerkiness back at 70-75k. Did the DSG service at 80k. And tuned ecu at 85k. Barely have any weirdness now. But also adjusted my driving style to make sure I go slower from brake to throttle and wait to give it harder throttle until I feel the gear engaged and pulling.

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[Envy187]

But also adjusted my driving style to make sure I go slower from brake to throttle and wait to give it harder throttle until I feel the gear engaged and pulling.

Can't stress this enough. ^ Learning where your car's shift points are and paying attention to the RPMs while applying/releasing the throttle is huge. You'll avoid clunks/DSG jerkiness in almost all situations if you understand how to adapt and react, accordingly.

Using engine-braking works wonders as well!

[Gberg888]

1) The car is an automated manual. But, you cannot drive it like a manual which is insanely annoying. Coming from a stick for my whole life and buying this DSG has been the biggest car mistake i have made including totaling a car previously. Anyways, I have also changed the way I drive slightly. I no longer try to downshift as often as I would have. I use the brakes much more than the engine braking I would in a manual. I fucking hate it actually but whatever.

2) Everyone says the newer cars DSG are better but they are not. They have the same issues, but since its a "dif gen" or its "newer" they assume its better. Its not, they just are failing at higher mileage just like the B8s. Go back over the last 4 months. There is literally a new thread every week for a b8.5 guy complaining his dsg light came on. Its insane actually.

3) Everyone says, well you have to replace a clutch if you want to make power in the stick cars anyways, so whats the difference, its like 4k for the clutch job. Well, its true you do, but thats a choice. And, you can upgrade from there so its money well spent instead of money getting back to square 1. And when you "upgrade" the clutch its actually an upgrade you shouldnt have to touch ever again or atleast not for a lot of miles. With a tuned TCU and higher power on the DSG, even a new unit may go and youll never know when.

4) Then of course, there is the maintenance and the multiple points of failure. You have to replace the fluid every 35k, which normally would not be that big of a deal, expect there is a fucking idiotic process to doing it where you raise and lower the car, get it to temp, let it cool down, refill blah blah blah. Its fucking annoying. Plus the parts aint all that cheap. I think the kits are like 400 dollars + the labor which at a shop is prob 2 hours at x dollars. So figure $600 give or take. Then, you have the mech board that can fail, the mech unit that can fail and, the dreaded sensor that can fail. Said sensor runs from the front to the back of the tranny and means you gotta drop and disassemble the whole thing.

5) Buy a manual, put a clutch in it and enjoy. FUCK DSG.

[Envy187]

Buy a manual, put a clutch in it and enjoy. FUCK DSG.

Talk that shit, king. Well said.

[evanb]

1) The car is an automated manual. But, you cannot drive it like a manual which is insanely annoying.

Why not? I drive in manual mode 99% of the time.

[Stopsign32v]

Why not? I drive in manual mode 99% of the time.

The more I read about the DSG the more I think these NEED to be driven in manual mode. I am confused that EVERY 1/4 video or launch, these cars are never in manual mode. Any reason why?

[Envy187]

The more I read about the DSG the more I think these NEED to be driven in manual mode. I am confused that EVERY 1/4 video or launch, these cars are never in manual mode. Any reason why?

Regarding the 1/4 or launch part, I think it comes down to the computer just being able to do everything faster/better than a human can. As most vehicles come with the preset rev-limiter range where - even in manual mode - the system shifts for you as once you approach that limit a fail-safe, it's just more pertinent to allow the vehicle to do the work for you...and enjoy the ride.

There are ways to circumvent that limiter/rev-range...but you pay to play.

[Stopsign32v]

I'm not sure a DSG is for me :(

[Envy187]

I'm not sure a DSG is for me :(

No harm, no foul! Different strokes, for different folks. If you find a B8/B8.5 as a 6MT or settle with a DSG, I wish you all the best.

[TC_S4]

The more I read about the DSG the more I think these NEED to be driven in manual mode. I am confused that EVERY 1/4 video or launch, these cars are never in manual mode. Any reason why?

I drive 95% of the time in manual mode. When I start the engine, it’s second nature to put in manual mode, I don’t even think about it. I like to be in control of my car, being in the right gear every time. However, I put on auto mode, on the trafic and on 1/4 miles, I believe the the machine manage the shifts faster and more efficient, than human, in these particular cases.

[Stopsign32v]

I drive 95% of the time in manual mode. When I start the engine, it’s second nature to put in manual mode, I don’t even think about it. I like to be in control of my car, being in the right gear every time. However, I put on auto mode, on the trafic and on 1/4 miles, I believe the the machine manage the shifts faster and more efficient, than human, in these particular cases.

How many miles and have you had issues?

[TC_S4]

How many miles and have you had issues?

I have 63k miles, zero issue with the DGS. Beside changing 2 front wheel bearings and SAI cleaning, the car is very reliable.

[Dark-e]

4) Then of course, there is the maintenance and the multiple points of failure. You have to replace the fluid every 35k, which normally would not be that big of a deal, expect there is a fucking idiotic process to doing it where you raise and lower the car, get it to temp, let it cool down, refill blah blah blah. Its fucking annoying. Plus the parts aint all that cheap. I think the kits are like 400 dollars + the labor which at a shop is prob 2 hours at x dollars. So figure $600 give or take. Then, you have the mech board that can fail, the mech unit that can fail and, the dreaded sensor that can fail. Said sensor runs from the front to the back of the tranny and means you gotta drop and disassemble the whole thing.

This is absolutely bullshit! I got my service done when I got my unitronic stage 1+ tune for $330. The kits are in the $200 dollar range btw. I feel like you need to re-evaluate your math. While manuals may be more performance inspiring, I have no issue with my DSG manual mode or S. I have actually come to like the DSG fart when getting on it. It always brings a smile to my face, and I don't have to always be pushing in a clutch peddle which is nice because my S4 is my daily driver.

[Gberg888]

Sorry, its like $250.00 ish for the kit and another 2 hrs of labor in general. If you look at the procedure it is an absolute pain the ass. Sure you can just drain, replace the filter, fill and go on, but its not the right way to do it, and when its done right, it takes time.

As for the points of failure? Please prove to me how I am wrong. There are numerous threads going on about mech units failing, the boards failing and, the sensor failing. So I D K what the fuck you are talking about...

As for your "Like" of the DSG farts, whoopy fucking doo. Thats personal preference. But, since we are here talking about personal preference, I much rather have a clutch and be pushing that pedal and rowing my own gears 7 days a week and 2x on Sunday. I truly regret getting the DSG. I see its value as a daily or for a race car when its about time, but frankly, with all the tech and blue tooth, its not like you need to hold your phone... so for me there is no real need ... unless your a pussy who cant handle a clutch in traffic.

[Dark-e]

Believe me before this car I drove manual for 6 years. My b5 s4 was 6-speed and it was one of my favorite cars. I just feel like this forum is also portraying the DSG transmission as a bad unit. Just trying to spread some positivity for the tranny. It is by no means a manual gearbox, but as I have driven manual for so long I like the convenience of the auto on a day to day basis. Yeah the mech unit may go but a replacement kit is $400-$600 dollars. The clutch in the manual is also a weak point which under my understanding is far more of an expense then a mech kit. I have had no issues with my DSG except it automatically shifting at times when I am reaming her out to redline, but that's when I throw it in S mode usually.

[Stopsign32v]

Damn...

So it's a 6MT S4 or nothing. (unless I get a new turbo S4 with the ZF)

Just out of curiosity is the S3's DCT the same as far as reliability and all goes?

[TC_S4]

Damn...

So it's a 6MT S4 or nothing. (unless I get a new turbo S4 with the ZF)

Just out of curiosity is the S3's DCT the same as far as reliability and all goes?

Nah, the ZF S4 is not nearly as fun. Big improvement compared the previous generation of ZF but still to slow for my taste. I been driving manual for the last 20 yrs and wouldn’t trade my DSG for a manual or ZF. As long it’s the DL501 gen 2 it’s pretty solid. Most mechatronic failure are the early first generation tranny. As for the maintenance ~400$ at the dealer every 3 years it’s no big deal. As for me, I do the dsg flush myself so it’s a no brainer.

Also if you go manual and intend to tune the car stage 2 and +, you’ll need a performance clutch stage 2 or 3, and that will cost way more than the doing the dsg maintenance for the life of the car.

[Midnight_Rider]

I think once you are use to driving manual, heel toe, all that, which I have all my life with other performance cars with proper shifter and proper gear box, ZF tend to feel like something pensioners and pseudo F1 car racers use. To me, it takes all the fun out of the act of driving.

Plus, as posted here, it's so much work to replace parts. As I read some maintenance and issues associated with our ZF 8 speed, it's clear to me the design of it is to save money, however implication that the transmission shares it's oil with the diff, and there are complex machine parts inside the clutch assembly clearly means it's going to be costly to the owners eventually down the line to fully service this unit.

It's always in the back of my mind that if this transmission goes, this car will be completely worthless and costly as the car sells used with high miles at $15-$20k, which makes it very difficult to sell with transmission issues. Unlike other cars I've owned, this is the first car that went down in price as it holds absolutely no value due to the amount of money require to maintain it properly. And the price gauging by dealership and shops for general maintenance makes this car unattractive and ROI is not worth it with the supercharger instead of having a turbo.

It's not even like the engine is known to last 300k miles. It has carbon buildup issues, transmission issues, and drive ability issues.

More and more I understand why people are selling this car at 50k miles, and that goes with a lot of European cars. My sister's BMW 440i also started to fall apart at 50k miles, and she vow to never get European car again and opted to purchase a Lexus. I'm in the same boat. I'm at a point where I'd rather buy an American car than another European car again.

[4DOORFUN]

This is an enthusiasts forum so many people with DSG issues also tuned their ECU and added power over stock. Well, call me crazy, but that can't be good for the DSG. If the 6MT cars need a clutch upgrade to handle the extra power from a tuned ECU, then what do you think the DSG is going to do with the extra power? It's going to wear quicker for sure and parts will get stressed earlier than if you had stock power. This is why I believe so many people with tunes say their DSG has odd shifts from time to time.

[RatBustard]

I think once you are use to driving manual, heel toe, all that, which I have all my life with other performance cars with proper shifter and proper gear box, ZF tend to feel like something pensioners and pseudo F1 car racers use. To me, it takes all the fun out of the act of driving.

Plus, as posted here, it's so much work to replace parts. As I read some maintenance and issues associated with our ZF 8 speed, it's clear to me the design of it is to save money, however implication that the transmission shares it's oil with the diff, and there are complex machine parts inside the clutch assembly clearly means it's going to be costly to the owners eventually down the line to fully service this unit.

It's always in the back of my mind that if this transmission goes, this car will be completely worthless and costly as the car sells used with high miles at $15-$20k, which makes it very difficult to sell with transmission issues. Unlike other cars I've owned, this is the first car that went down in price as it holds absolutely no value due to the amount of money require to maintain it properly. And the price gauging by dealership and shops for general maintenance makes this car unattractive and ROI is not worth it with the supercharger instead of having a turbo.

It's not even like the engine is known to last 300k miles. It has carbon buildup issues, transmission issues, and drive ability issues.

More and more I understand why people are selling this car at 50k miles, and that goes with a lot of European cars. My sister's BMW 440i also started to fall apart at 50k miles, and she vow to never get European car again and opted to purchase a Lexus. I'm in the same boat. I'm at a point where I'd rather buy an American car than another European car again.

are you talking about the B8 S4 or B9 S4?

[Robdukes]

This is an enthusiasts forum so many people with DSG issues also tuned their ECU and added power over stock. Well, call me crazy, but that can't be good for the DSG. If the 6MT cars need a clutch upgrade to handle the extra power from a tuned ECU, then what do you think the DSG is going to do with the extra power? It's going to wear quicker for sure and parts will get stressed earlier than if you had stock power. This is why I believe so many people with tunes say their DSG has odd shifts from time to time.

Lots of people with stock DSG issues. One of the main reasons is the hot dsg fluid would eat away at the connections for the board. Then the board starts sending wrong messages for shift points. This is why the repair kit comes with little insulators for the board connections that werent on the original. So you could have 1 horsepower or 1000. Would make no difference.

There are very few who had the whole trans give out as you would expect if it was horsepower and torque related. Mostly everyone is mech unit failure.

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[4DOORFUN]

Lots of people with stock DSG issues. One of the main reasons is the hot dsg fluid would eat away at the connections for the board. Then the board starts sending wrong messages for shift points. This is why the repair kit comes with little insulators for the board connections that werent on the original. So you could have 1 horsepower or 1000. Would make no difference.

There are very few who had the whole trans give out as you would expect if it was horsepower and torque related. Mostly everyone is mech unit failure.

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How do you explain better DSG performance after going back to the stock power?

[Robdukes]

How do you explain better DSG performance after going back to the stock power?

Lots of ways. One being it doesn't. Its a placebo effect. They thinks its acting better when in reality they are just not driving the car as hard because no tune.
I have first hand seen it to not matter as ive tuned and detuned a few times and it acted the same.
But there is an abundance of evidence that shows it doesnt matter. Many many bone stock cars with mech issues.

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[Waffles_s4]

Fuck manual.

Here in Canada, we have a red light or stop sign every 50-200 meters. It's a total royal pita. Who wants to shift up and down 6 million times every day? Add traffic and it's not even enjoyable anymore.

DSG in manual mode is much more practical. Shifts much faster, and in traffic it's a lot more convenient. Automatic mode if you are eating a burger in the other hand. Also, it saves on gas since you are not shifting at an almost always higher RPM


In 10 years I will doubt u will even find a car with a manal tranny. Heck, maybe to buy a petrol engine we would have to pay an extra tax with all those battery cars

[Midnight_Rider]

Fuck manual.

Here in Canada, we have a red light or stop sign every 50-200 meters. It's a total royal pita. Who wants to shift up and down 6 million times every day? Add traffic and it's not even enjoyable anymore.

DSG in manual mode is much more practical. Shifts much faster, and in traffic it's a lot more convenient. Automatic mode if you are eating a burger in the other hand. Also, it saves on gas since you are not shifting at an almost always higher RPM


In 10 years I will doubt u will even find a car with a manal tranny. Heck, maybe to buy a petrol engine we would have to pay an extra tax with all those battery cars

If you're stuck in traffic all the time, why do you need a fast car?

[Quix]

5) Buy a manual, put a clutch in it and enjoy. FUCK DSG.

Different strokes for different folks. I use my 2013 (bought in late 2012) as a DD and often sit in traffic. So having to ride the clutch and go 3 mph, stop, go, stop, go is annoying. To each his own.

If you're stuck in traffic all the time, why do you need a fast car?

But...there are times I'm not commuting. Does anyone NEED a fast car?

[Waffles_s4]

Dsg is a picky tranny, if u keep up with oil changes, and maintain it, and if it's a gen2, u should not have issues. Worse case, get the mechatronic repair kit, do an oil change, and things should be good to go.

The S4, even stock, breaks all speed limits within seconds, even on highway. In stock form its more than what 90% of people need, we buy these to enjoy them, not to need them

[fastboatster]

Dsg is a picky tranny, if u keep up with oil changes, and maintain it, and if it's a gen2, u should not have issues. Worse case, get the mechatronic repair kit, do an oil change, and things should be good to go.

The S4, even stock, breaks all speed limits within seconds, even on highway. In stock form its more than what 90% of people need, we buy these to enjoy them, not to need them

It still can have drive range sensor quit and off you go splitting the tranny apart. There's a tsb for that sensor even for gen 2 and I saw a few posts on this forum where it would quit in gen 2 cars. Maybe many gen 2s are just very low mile at the moment?

[Waffles_s4]

Many b8.5s have 60-100k miles. It's been more than 7 years since they were out.

[fastboatster]

Many b8.5s have 60-100k miles. It's been more than 7 years since they were out.

well, let's just hope that most of the b8.5s won't have problems with that sensor although it looks like a few already did. I guess it's just something to keep in mind when shopping for these cars, it might be rare but very expensive due to transmission design.

[slykens]

I've got a 2010 with 121k on the clock and I've been knocking on wood. I have a few minor DSG issues but never anything serious. I get the stop-bump now and then or the occasional hard shift when it's really cold or sometimes when cold its a little ornery in reverse or I used to get a bit of the RPM wander at cruise in low-power situations (like slight downhill) but that's more or less gone away after the recent maintenance and adaptation.

I've done DSG maintenance at 40k, 80k, and 120k. I really like the car and hope to keep it another 10 years and 120k miles.