Tune adaptation

[r26372]

It seems like when I switch tune files the car is super fast for a month or so and then seems as if the car adapts to reduce power over time. Then I switch back to the stock file and then back to the 93 file and the car is super fast again.

Has anyone else re-set or reloaded their tunes over time and had this experience?

[MacFady]

Reminds me of when you would redo the throttle body adapation on my B6, tune or not you noticed a difference.

[blknytro]

Which tune?

[r26372]

Which tune?

APR tune, although my question was more general in nature vs specific tune. Question was more about car adapting back to closer to stock performance over time somehow.
When I left the dealer after latest update there was a noticeable performance improvement, then as I was driving around in the last week the car just didn't seem all that fast, this morning I switched back and forth between tunes and once again the power is back.

[SolarRS3]

Long term knock adaptation maybe, if you have shitty fuel? I know from the subaru world, after a reflash or reset, the fine learning knock correction table was reset. When I had shitty fuel that was one of the cause of bad performance over consequent ride. After encountering multiple knock occurrence over a certain load/rpm range it would apply a timing change proactively. I might just be talking out of my ass as I don't know the audi strategy for knock control.

[SlowSedans]

Just resetting the ecu will do the same. This happens on tunes with too aggressive of timing and or too lean on fuel. They will be real TQ monsters and then adapt out. It doesnt take a month though, that's probably just you getting use to it more.

[r26372]

Just resetting the ecu will do the same. This happens on tunes with too aggressive of timing and or too lean on fuel. They will be real TQ monsters and then adapt out. It doesnt take a month though, that's probably just you getting use to it more.

Guess I'll try a different gas station too as I may be getting crappy gas. I'm going to see how many days until the car feels slower again to get a better idea of timing of car adjusting backwards. Look forward to warmer temps and back to the E85 file.

[javbomb]

Which feed do I need to look at to see if its been adapting timing long term?

Also is there anything to give you an indicator of which map the car is running? Or if the car thinks the fuel is shitty?

I have OBDEleven and can log, I had a brief look yesterday but couldn't see anything definitive.

[r26372]

Which feed do I need to look at to see if its been adapting timing long term?

Also is there anything to give you an indicator of which map the car is running? Or if the car thinks the fuel is shitty?

I have OBDEleven and can log, I had a brief look yesterday but couldn't see anything definitive.

I have the apr mobile dongle and can log with that, see which map it's on, and switch maps.

I have no idea how to log or what I'd even be looking for. Apr has no tutorial really.

In terms of crappy gas, that's hard to know, but I do know that station gets bad reviews for its e85 blends being as low as e51-55 at times, which is below the e60 needed for that map. Other local users have tested the ethanol content.


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[Brian@Unitronic]

I have the apr mobile dongle and can log with that, see which map it's on, and switch maps.

I have no idea how to log or what I'd even be looking for. Apr has no tutorial really.

In terms of crappy gas, that's hard to know, but I do know that station gets bad reviews for its e85 blends being as low as e51-55 at times, which is below the e60 needed for that map. Other local users have tested the ethanol content.


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i know ive seen some 93 logs from chicago 93 octane and its typically not the best gas (from what ive seen)

[nesbit]

Just resetting the ecu will do the same. This happens on tunes with too aggressive of timing and or too lean on fuel. They will be real TQ monsters and then adapt out. It doesnt take a month though, that's probably just you getting use to it more.

So does this mean the dyno numbers for people who had tunes are temporary?

[javbomb]

i know ive seen some 93 logs from chicago 93 octane and its typically not the best gas (from what ive seen)

Yeah but how do the logs tell you its bad gas? Other than pulling timing?

[Brian@Unitronic]

Yeah but how do the logs tell you its bad gas? Other than pulling timing?

if the motor is pulling timing its most likely due to knock. good gas = very little knock. This motor is very octane sensitive, which is why e85 can make so much power compared to 93 or even race gas

[r26372]

This has been helpful and the posts make sense regarding car adjusting and pulling timing. I think it's a combo of not the best winter gas in the Chicago area and the weather being cold and maybe getting a little too much on the throttle until fully warmed up as I always have it in Sport mode and should probably stick with normal throttle mode until at least seeing maybe 160-170 on the temp gauge. I had that issue with my BMW tunes where I would get CELs if I'd give it too much gas before being fully warmed up. I certainly don't punch it until it's warm, but Sport and 50% throttle is still maybe too aggressive in the cold mornings and may be contributing to knock events and car adjusting backwards.

[Rocketsauce16]

I've had the exact opposite experience I load my tune a couple days ahead of time before a race bc the adaptation helps me.

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[r26372]

Texas vs Chicago. You'll not have winter blend gas and you won't have cold temps, so you wouldn't have to baby car until warm like I do.

[0000 RS5]

I've had the exact opposite experience I load my tune a couple days ahead of time before a race bc the adaptation helps me.

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Which tune are you using?

[comingabriel]

Which tune are you using?

X2

[comingabriel]

Reminds me of when you would redo the throttle body adapation on my B6, tune or not you noticed a difference.

That reminds me, I need to re-adapt my TB, and do some logging, seemed to cause fuel cutting WAY more frequently.

[Brian@Unitronic]

Texas vs Chicago. You'll not have winter blend gas and you won't have cold temps, so you wouldn't have to baby car until warm like I do.

what exactly are the issues you are having? I live in the northeast and no matter the temperature my car runs great without any cutting out etc

[r26372]

what exactly are the issues you are having? I live in the northeast and no matter the temperature my car runs great without any cutting out etc

I don't have cutting out or issues really. Like the title of my post said, the car seems very fast right after tune is switched or remapped, then seem to adapt to being slower over time. When I switch map back and forth it's fast again.


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[Rocketsauce16]

Which tune are you using?

X2

Custom Code- Stage 2 E70, everyones cars react differently and I've always had a process of adapting my cars and even every tank of fuel on e70. Especially since unlike 93 you won't have the same content each time. First 15 minutes of driving, I drive normal, followed by 10 minutes of more aggressive driving but building in the boost (steadily giving more throttle through a gear in manual mode until the pedal is to the floor). Then send it a couple times. When I did it on stage 2 I had a dragy time of 10.92 @ 128 the first night after my/CC adaptation method. 8 nights later was my street race, I did do a clutch adaptation before the run and ran 10.82 @ 125, but launched at full boost which I never do, 1.83 60ft vs 1.73 a few nights before. Still had a quicker 0-60, 1/8th was similar, but back halfed better. Also probably let out before a quarter mile hence the lower trap.

[comingabriel]

IMO, those are not modest numbers.

~10.5 and over 130mph is what I would like to see.

[Rocketsauce16]

IMO, those are not modest numbers.

~10.5 and over 130mph is what I would like to see.

It just takes a little more effort to get there. Same tune went 9.9 @ 137 mph, it's not magic. I think 10.5 is achievable with rear seats removed, 4" turbo inlet, IE intake or something like it, IC piping, TB inlet, and good street tires. Or skip the other upgrades and just run slicks.

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[TwistRate]

I thought adaptation was inline or on the fly. I'd put a couple gallons of 100 unlead in there to see if makes a difference. Then you'll know if its the fuel or something else.

[nicholasdaa]

I've felt this with the past cars I've had and the RS3. Everytime I reflash or put a new tune on the baseline for the tune is super quick and responsive in all aspects. However, over time it learns the conditions of my environment, gas, and driving. After it has "learned" it only ever feels that fast again when it's super cold out and the conditions are at their best.

It's very similar to a relationship, in the beginning you're all show, doing things to impress that after time will come to a stop. Then you get married and things normalize and you go into your most common routine based on the the conditions around you, no more flowers every other week, random gifts, surprises, etc...

[blknytro]

I've felt this with the past cars I've had and the RS3. Everytime I reflash or put a new tune on the baseline for the tune is super quick and responsive in all aspects. However, over time it learns the conditions of my environment, gas, and driving. After it has "learned" it only ever feels that fast again when it's super cold out and the conditions are at their best.

It's very similar to a relationship, in the beginning you're all show, doing things to impress that after time will come to a stop. Then you get married and things normalize and you go into your most common routine based on the the conditions around you, no more flowers every other week, random gifts, surprises, etc...

LOL

[r26372]

I've felt this with the past cars I've had and the RS3. Everytime I reflash or put a new tune on the baseline for the tune is super quick and responsive in all aspects. However, over time it learns the conditions of my environment, gas, and driving. After it has "learned" it only ever feels that fast again when it's super cold out and the conditions are at their best.

It's very similar to a relationship, in the beginning you're all show, doing things to impress that after time will come to a stop. Then you get married and things normalize and you go into your most common routine based on the the conditions around you, no more flowers every other week, random gifts, surprises, etc...

Ha, good analogy. I guess the nice thing is for the car vs a relationship is all I need to do is toggle between maps and it's back to the honeymoon phase again.

[whitewaterguy87]

In regards to APR's E60 to E85 range, is anyone out there running right at E60 winter blend for mostly DD with maybe a few 2 to 3 sec WOT in a week? Since I have been stage 2 it only take seconds from a roll to be going plenty fast for conditions in the city with winter where I live... I guess what I'm asking is if I should be running shit 91oc vs E60? If the car's Tune/ECU has been on about E65 for 2 or 3 gas tanks and now E60 to E62 for this gas tank I filled yesterday?

I have no Problem draining most the gas out and putting 91 in but I'm not running lower than APR suggest & not flying around at this time of year but I do like to boost the car from time to time. Let me know what you guys think.

[r26372]

In regards to APR's E60 to E85 range, is anyone out there running right at E60 winter blend for mostly DD with maybe a few 2 to 3 sec WOT in a week? Since I have been stage 2 it only take seconds from a roll to be going plenty fast for conditions in the city with winter where I live... I guess what I'm asking is if I should be running shit 91oc vs E60? If the car's Tune/ECU has been on about E65 for 2 or 3 gas tanks and now E60 to E62 for this gas tank I filled yesterday?

I have no Problem draining most the gas out and putting 91 in but I'm not running lower than APR suggest & not flying around at this time of year but I do like to boost the car from time to time. Let me know what you guys think.

I think the e60-e85 range is much like the stock tune being designed to run on no ethanol, but good up to about 25% content. Essentially it's setup for about e60, not for real e85. So if you are finding low e60's you should be just fine. Below e60 you'll probably have misses and issues. Doubt you'd blow the engine by being at e55 with a tune setup for e60, but not ideal by any stretch.


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