Spark plugs and coil packs - Current performance recommendations

[csevans]

A question in 3 parts:
I'm currently running a stockish 2.0T.
New exhaust installed, GFB DV+ installed.
I'm planning on a ECU upgrade in the near future.

1. At what point should I upgrade my coilpack and sparkplugs - Before or after the ECU?

2. What is the current recommendation for coilpacks? I suspect this won't have changed much from info in the forums.
3. What is the current recommendation for sparkplugs? This is an area that may have changed. With the ECU upgrade I suspect I'll need something that runs cooler.

Bonus
3a. Gap?

Never done this before, but tutorials make it look easy enough.

[bwdysart]

There’s a big spark plug thread that outlines everything, google best spark plug for B7 A4 or something.

As far as when, before you tune. My tune killed all the old coil packs I had been using


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[csevans]

There’s a big spark plug thread that outlines everything, google best spark plug for B7 A4 or something.

As far as when, before you tune. My tune killed all the old coil packs I had been using

I'm going to assume you meant this thread.
I'd read it, and based on the write-up would look at the NGK BKR8EIX with a 0.032" gap. But, that thread was first written in 2011, and despite it saying it was updated in 2017, that was for the QA section. A lot changes in 8 years ...

[PNW Avant]

I'm going to assume you meant this thread.
I'd read it, and based on the write-up would look at the NGK BKR8EIX with a 0.032" gap. But, that thread was first written in 2011, and despite it saying it was updated in 2017, that was for the QA section. A lot changes in 8 years ...

Sure a lot has changed but the engines haven’t. The basic stage 1 tunes have been out since the beginning of the b7 in 2005.5. So the old spark plug thread has you covered.


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[EvolutionArmory]

Run a 7 heat range NGK plug. The OEM plugs are NGK PFR7S8EG now. Gap them to .028. I run stock plugs on my K04 tune but this is the plug my tune is written for. When in doubt, call your tuner and ask what plug their tune is written for.

NGK BKR8EIX might be too cold for a K03 tune. I tried them on my K04 tune and they didn’t really do anything better than NGK 7’s. Idle was the same, timing was the same and there was no knock on a 7 anyway. The only company I know that recommends NGK BKR8EIX for their tune is APR’s K04 tune. But they wrote that tune for that plug.

[EvolutionArmory]

Sure a lot has changed but the engines haven’t. The basic stage 1 tunes have been out since the beginning of the b7 in 2005.5. So the old spark plug thread has you covered.


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Yes and no. I think that thread started when the OEM plug was a Bosch 6 heat range. Using that thread one step colder for a NGK plug would be a 7 heat range and a 5 heat reange in a Bosch. The most recent revision OEM plug is a 7 heat range NGK now.

[csevans]

Yes and no. I think that thread started when the OEM plug was a Bosch 6 heat range. Using that thread one step colder for a NGK plug would be a 7 heat range and a 5 heat reange in a Bosch. The most recent revision OEM plug is a 7 heat range NGK now.

See. Useful updated information.
The NGK for one step cooler recommendation in that thread was the 8 heat range one I listed.
I hadn't thought about contacting the ECU maker to find out what they tuned to - I'll reach out to them today.

So the coilpacks make a difference?

[PNW Avant]

I meant nothing has changed since the last update. Especially for a stock tune (exhaust and a DV would not require deviation from the OEM heat range). The content was at least updated in 2013 to add the information from JHM that states the OEM heat range is 7. And that must have been known earlier than that because I have always understood 7 to be the oem range.


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[csevans]

I meant nothing has changed since the last update. Especially for a stock tune (exhaust and a DV would not require deviation from the OEM heat range). The content was at least updated in 2013 to add the information from JHM that states the OEM heat range is 7.

So, you missed the part that I am doing this in preparation of doing an ECU upgrade soon? That's ok. FWIW I'm leaning towards an APR (maybe JHM - but I have 2 APR dealers within 100 miles) Stage 1.

The DV upgrade was to make sure that part didn't fail.
Upgrading the plugs and coils is another (relatively) cheap preventative measure that could save an engine failure.

[Hugh@EuropaParts]

We do in house Revo tuning and have seen old plugs and coil packs cause misfires on a newly tuned car more than a handful of times.

[csevans]

We do in house Revo tuning and have seen old plugs and coil packs cause misfires on a newly tuned car more than a handful of times.

I've heard similar stories. My 12 year old engine has a little over 100000 miles on it, and I can't see mention of plugs or packs in it's service history - so I'm being precautious with preventative maintenance. If I was staying stock it wouldn't bother me, but there are a couple of points of failure that are easy to address beforehand.

[EvolutionArmory]

Brand new genuine Audi coilpacks should be fine. Red top, black top, either one will do. There’s no real definitive proof that “R8” coil packs have more spark but the price is about the same for either so it doesn’t really matter.

[PNW Avant]

So, you missed the part that I am doing this in preparation of doing an ECU upgrade soon? That's ok. FWIW I'm leaning towards an APR (maybe JHM - but I have 2 APR dealers within 100 miles) Stage 1.

The DV upgrade was to make sure that part didn't fail.
Upgrading the plugs and coils is another (relatively) cheap preventative measure that could save an engine failure.

I did not miss that part. Did you miss the part where a member said he is running stock heat range with a k04?

I have apr stage one with stock coils and heat range 7 NKGs. Plugs regularly changed for maintenance but not coils. Has run fine with no misfires for 6 years. Ask your tuner what they recommend, when you get there.


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[Theiceman]

not related just a note for those reading this ... I accidentally ordered the wrong plug with my ignition tune up kit from hugh . The gas mileage went horribly south but I didn't think about what caused it and just went on my way as I really don't care about gas mileage as its a third car.

Through reading a thread like this I realized i had put a colder plug in for a tuned car and I am totally stock. because I'm a tight wad and throw nothing away I put my old plugs back in that only 30 k km on them anyway and gas mileage went right back to where it was before ..... funny the things you learn...

[csevans]

I did not miss that part. Did you miss the part where a member said he is running stock heat range with a k04?

I've also read the threads where people report misfiring engines after an ECU upgrade.
I've sent APR an email asking what their stage 1 tune was configured for (I hadn't thought to do that - and the info isnt on their website).

FWIW - They replied while I was typing this with:

Ryan Wreyford (APR, LLC)
Feb 25, 11:26 -05

Hi Craig,

Thanks for reaching out, I'd recommend sticking with genuine OEM coilpacks and NGK - PFR7S8EG spark plugs gapped at .032". Let me know if you have any questions.

Best Regards,
APR Support Team
P: 334-502-5181
A: 4800 US HWY 280 W OPELIKA, AL 36801

Based on that - I guess thats what I'll be going with.

[PNW Avant]

Typically they will indicate what supporting mods are required or suggested when upgrading to their tunes and parts. For example HFC/TP and fueling to stage 2. No one is going to balk at freshening up the ignition system. Can’t hurt.

If you’re going to tune, I’d also highly recommend carbon cleaning the valves beforehand, if you haven’t already. This could cause rough performance even with updated parts. Could go crazy replacing parts but all could be caused by carbon build up.

@90k-ish
IMG_6525.jpg


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[EvolutionArmory]

not related just a note for those reading this ... I accidentally ordered the wrong plug with my ignition tune up kit from hugh . The gas mileage went horribly south but I didn't think about what caused it and just went on my way as I really don't care about gas mileage as its a third car.

Through reading a thread like this I realized i had put a colder plug in for a tuned car and I am totally stock. because I'm a tight wad and throw nothing away I put my old plugs back in that only 30 k km on them anyway and gas mileage went right back to where it was before ..... funny the things you learn...

Running something like an 8 when you should be running a 7 will do exactly that. You’ll have unburnt fuel, bad gas mileage, etc.

I ran BRK8EIX plugs for a couple weeks and my mileage went down to 25 MPG. Went back to PFR7S8EG and I’m at 28 again. Mixed rural highway and some interstate.

[Charles.waite]

I meant nothing has changed since the last update. Especially for a stock tune (exhaust and a DV would not require deviation from the OEM heat range). The content was at least updated in 2013 to add the information from JHM that states the OEM heat range is 7. And that must have been known earlier than that because I have always understood 7 to be the oem range.


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Yea that thread was based on the assumption that the heat ranges were the same as the 1.8t, which turned out to be false. NGK6 was standard for the 1.8t, NGK7 is standard for the 2.0t.

I'd personally run BKR7EIX plugs and new, OEM 07k coils. If you're going k04 then maybe NGK8 makes sense, but stock turbo, even tuned ECU, NGK7 is fine. I currently run OE Bosch FR6KPP332S plugs and OEM coils (that have been installed since 2014 and have 30k miles on without issue), but have a set of BKR7EIX plugs waiting to go in when I rebuild my spare engine.

In the past I've tried .044" gapped plugs in the car and had no issues (and ran my b6 with that large gap for years without issues) but I think with the higher compression of the FSI engines, I'd feel safer with more standard .032" gap on the plugs. Don't bother gapping down to .028" its not going to make a difference and if anything a larger gap can allow for better combustion efficiency, in theory. the .028" gap is needlessly small for a stock or mildly tuned engine.

[EvolutionArmory]

My car misfired like crazy with a .044 gap. The test drive after my K04 install was real bad. Gapped them down to .028 and it ran like butter. Well, as butter as it could run with JHM’s lame K04 tune and wastegate that was set wrong 🤣🤣🤣

But you’re right of course. The difference between .028 and .032 might not make a difference and yes you should probably run a bigger gap if it won’t blow out. You can always set it to .032 and drop it down to .028 if you have to.

[Charles.waite]

The plugs come gapped to .032 so that’s why I’m saying just leave the standard gap. I don’t think there’s really a meaningful difference between .028 and .032, just saying no need to gap them down from how they come out of the box.

[csevans]

My car is back in for the second part of its service tomorrow (they had to order in parts for the P0171 error fix - PCV valve and pipe apparently, and they are doing a cam follower replacement).
I picked up a set of NGK PFR7S8EG spark plugs this morning for them to install while they are under the hood. Its something I could do, but they have the tools and I know (?) it will be done right.
Going over the service history, I couldn't see any record of spark plug replacement. Maybe it was done as part of the standard service, but considering that is typical done at 60000 and/or 90000miles (depending on the plugs) and I purchased the car at 97000 (which means maybe it was done, or maybe its due at the next 30000mile interval), I am guessing it wasn't done.

I'll be replacing the coil packs next week when the replacement Bosch set arrive from ECS. Yes they are "red top" ... and I got a red wiring cover to match. Bite me.

[csevans]

Coilpacks installed ... and the red wiring harness cover (don't hate me).



The plastic on the wiring harness was so brittle is just snapped as I was taking it off. I also noticed that the clips on 3 of the coilpacks harness plugs were snapped off. Guess my next job is to replace those pills so they don't work loose.

[Charles.waite]

You don’t really need to, I ran 2/4 of my b6’s coulpacks with no clips for years and they never came loose, not even close.


If you really want to go ahead, but it’s not something I’d lose sleep over tbh.

[csevans]

You don’t really need to, I ran 2/4 of my b6’s coulpacks with no clips for years and they never came loose, not even close.

Despite the pic showing the harness before I screwed it in place, I really think that the pressure from the harness and friction in the plugs will hold it in place. If its been running OK with 3/4 clips gone, I suspect I'll be ok too ... but all the same if something is broken, I like to make sure its fixed. There is a little OCD in there :)