8 Speed ZF Transmission-How many litres of fluid needed ?

[A1sailor]

How many litres of fluid needed for a filter and fluid change? I want to drain fluid, remove pan, replace filter and fluid. I read the 8 speed holds about 9.5 litres when totally empty but all fluid will not be removed for a drain and filter change.

[B8noobi3]

A little over 4qt. Get 5 to be sure.

[seanf86]

All the fluid change kits seem to come with 9 litres, I'll have 9 on hand when I do mine in the next month or so and I'll save whatever is left for the next change.

[djn876]

It's 8 litres plus a half if you have a trans cooler. See this reference from ZF. So nine sounds like a good number. Do you have a copy of the fluid change procedure and access to VCDS or something to read trans temp? It is a fairly specific procedure and if the trans isn't at the right temp, the fill level will be off.

[B8noobi3]

I would like to see how you get all 8 or 9 qt fluid out with just a fluid change without removing the torque converter.

[djn876]

That's a good point, the ZF literature likely assumes you do both. Checked the Audi manual again for fluid capacity and it only says you need about half of that for a refill.

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[Pittdawg]

Is there a consensus on the mileage where one should do this? Pretty sure Audi claims it's "lifetime" fluid in there but obviously no fluid lasts forever.

[djn876]

There are a few threads discussing that, ZF also has recommendations, they say 80 to 120k km (50 to 75k miles) depending on use (towing, track, etc.) but no longer than 8 years.

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[Valpo A7]

My A7 with the ZF is at 158K on the original fluid. Previous owner followed the Audi line of lifetime fill. My plan is to drain and refill this spring / summer.

Lifetime fill is too subjective. Lifetime of what? A car's life relies entirely on how well you maintain it. You can be meticulous and get 400K out of a car or beat the shit out of it and get 40K out of a car. BOTH are a car's lifetime.

[A1sailor]

Thanks all for the replies. I have read that ZF suggests 100,000 kms for a fluid change and who knows, they built the tranny so why argue with them. I am at 86,000 kms and have extended CPO warranty but I will change filter and fluid in spite of Audi's "sermon" on lifetime fluid.
I have located a Meyle filter, gasket and pan bolts for a lot less than Audi OEM's version.

[seanf86]

Thanks all for the replies. I have read that ZF suggests 100,000 kms for a fluid change and who knows, they built the tranny so why argue with them. I am at 86,000 kms and have extended CPO warranty but I will change filter and fluid in spite of Audi's "sermon" on lifetime fluid.
I have located a Meyle filter, gasket and pan bolts for a lot less than Audi OEM's version.

ecs tuning has the meyle filter kit for the best price at $35ish and I believe FCP euro has the cheapest lifeguard 8

[q5 dave]

My A7 with the ZF is at 158K on the original fluid. Previous owner followed the Audi line of lifetime fill. My plan is to drain and refill this spring / summer.

Lifetime fill is too subjective. Lifetime of what? A car's life relies entirely on how well you maintain it. You can be meticulous and get 400K out of a car or beat the shit out of it and get 40K out of a car. BOTH are a car's lifetime.

Might do more harm than good at this point.

[djn876]

If done properly how would putting new fluid in and a filter change hurt anything? I'd rather have all the crap that's collected out of the trans.

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[q5 dave]

Your mileage is more than double the recommended service interval so the grit in the current fluid helps keep the friction between the clutch plates. ymmv

[Valpo A7]

q5 dave, before I commit to doing it I will get a sample of the trans fluid and make a decision from there. I did some googling yesterday after you mentioned it. There seems to be some contention on whether the new fluid causes the damage or just exposes the damage that already occurred. The old fluid acts as a bandaid for the damage done already.

Neglected fluid breaks down and coats the internals with varnish/sludge. New trans fluid is a very aggressive solvent and will immediately start attacking these deposits. You don't know you have a problem because you’ve been going along happily ignorant of the impending problem. Then someone works on the trans, a problem develops and the owner blames the last shop to touch it. If left alone, it will fail anyway. Broken down fluid is no longer capable of doing the job it needs to do.

[zachf88]

I just had my trans fluid on my 3.0T changed with a new OEM filter and gasket. It took 7 1L bottles of ZF Lifeguard 8 'green' fluid. it was full at 6.5 L, but decided to flush a little extra. My Q5 had 82k miles. I can definitely tell you shifts are smoother and quicker. My shop recommends a trans flush every 50-60k miles. Make sure you follow ZF's procedure to the T.

Also, avoid the Miele filter kit. I've heard bad things about it. Not constructed very well and metal is weak. We drive Audi's. They are expensive.

[A1sailor]

Zach, was it a fluid drain and filter change that your shop did on your vehicle that used about 7 litres? You mention they chose to "flush" a little more fluid, was the service a flush or a drain and filter change?

Its surprising to hear about the Meyle filter concerns that you mention as Meyle is an OEM supplier of various parts to the auto industry.
Thanks

[zachf88]

The trans was drained when cold. The trans pan was then removed and the new filter was fitted, along with new gasket. Then the trans was filled cold. Then the trans was warmed up until oil was proper temp according to ZF spec. Then it was topped off and had an extra .5L left over so it was 'flushed' through.

My shop has done "tons of the ZF8's" and they say the ZF8's take 6L but a few take up to 7L of fluids. I trust them, as they have been Audi trained and all have experience at the dealers. They recommend a trans 'service' every 50k miles. I think this is a bit on the conservative side, as ZF suggest a little higher mileage.

And I was surprised to read/ hear about the Miele as well. Could have saved me about $150 but didn't want to risk it.

[B8noobi3]

The trans was drained when cold. The trans pan was then removed and the new filter was fitted, along with new gasket. Then the trans was filled cold. Then the trans was warmed up until oil was proper temp according to ZF spec. Then it was topped off and had an extra .5L left over so it was 'flushed' through.

My shop has done "tons of the ZF8's" and they say the ZF8's take 6L but a few take up to 7L of fluids. I trust them, as they have been Audi trained and all have experience at the dealers. They recommend a trans 'service' every 50k miles. I think this is a bit on the conservative side, as ZF suggest a little higher mileage.

And I was surprised to read/ hear about the Miele as well. Could have saved me about $150 but didn't want to risk it.

That’s how they work since forever, the mechanic gains your trust then shafts you with guilt trips.
I’ve personally changed 2 Q5’s and many other Zf from Bmw and none had gone over 5qt with just a drain and filter change. I wouldn’t be surprised if you open up your transmission filter to see a Meyle.

[A1sailor]

I contacted Meyle, they said the transmission filters are built to meet the OEM specifications for the transmission filter, however, they are not approved to the specification by Audi. They are an aftermarket product.

[zachf88]

That’s how they work since forever, the mechanic gains your trust then shafts you with guilt trips.
I’ve personally changed 2 Q5’s and many other Zf from Bmw and none had gone over 5qt with just a drain and filter change. I wouldn’t be surprised if you open up your transmission filter to see a Meyle.

That might be the case with your tech, but my tech didn't see a dime for the filter. I bought it from another company (FCP Euro). Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions. It wasn't stamped with Meyle either. I have offered my 2 cents. Proceed how you want. $150 extra for OEM filter and gasket is not bad for assurance that it'll be perfect fit. Last thing I would hate is to have a crappy filter and have a car out of commission a few days and more costly repairs. I bought from FCP Euro to take advantage of their lifetime replacement warranty.

[A1sailor]

I will try the Meyle transmission filter option, I do trust the company, I have used their products on Benzs in past.

[Pittdawg]

How was the Meyle filter? My mechanic is working on this for me today (felt compelled to get this done after reading this thread). We went with oem filter to be safe but damn the filter and fluid are expensive!

[Pittdawg]

I just had my trans fluid on my 3.0T changed with a new OEM filter and gasket. It took 7 1L bottles of ZF Lifeguard 8 'green' fluid. it was full at 6.5 L, but decided to flush a little extra. My Q5 had 82k miles. I can definitely tell you shifts are smoother and quicker. My shop recommends a trans flush every 50-60k miles. Make sure you follow ZF's procedure to the T.

Also, avoid the Miele filter kit. I've heard bad things about it. Not constructed very well and metal is weak. We drive Audi's. They are expensive.

FYI just got this done and mine took 7L also (my mechanic also thought only 6L was needed beforehand). The transmission now shifts night and day better, i.e. faster, crisper and more smoothly. I bought my vehicle used and was always a bit annoyed about how my ZF8 seemed to shift clunky but now I realize it just needed a fluid and filter change. It's expensive but WELL worth it.

[Ashs4b8]

For those that used the Meyle filter option, has there been any issues?

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[hahnmgh63]

Just check, some Meyle stuff is made in China now. If it's made in Germany or Europe for that matter I'd be fine with it but made in China, NO! Some Febi Bilstein stuff is made in China too.

[Damonkey09]

Bringing up an old thread but wanted to ask you Zack did you have a kit from FCP? If so can you share it? I would like to get the filter, gasket, fluid. And I thing I will get 2 4L just to make sure I have enough.

[DUBDAWG]

Just did the ZF filter with the lifeguard 8 change. Ended up taking 6L and even seems alot happier now!

[bb-tt]

Just did the ZF filter with the lifeguard 8 change. Ended up taking 6L and even seems alot happier now!

wow, that is the most i have heard anyone using for just a drain and filter change.

[sun_dance]

when I did mine, it took about 5.5 L, I had barely 1/2 of a bottle left since I'd ordered 6.

[MSq5]

That's a good point, the ZF literature likely assumes you do both. Checked the Audi manual again for fluid capacity and it only says you need about half of that for a refill.

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Just did mine today. The above chart was spot-on correct for a refill. 4 liters. That included the engine-running top off.

FWIW, I did it twice, since I had 9 liters in the FCP Euro kit. The second drain/fill/top off was today after the first yesterday to thoroughly mix the new and remaining old. This gives me peace if mind, since the first drain fluid was very dark at 72,000 miles. So, total used was 8 liters, 4 each time.

[no thx]

My A7 with the ZF is at 158K on the original fluid. Previous owner followed the Audi line of lifetime fill. My plan is to drain and refill this spring / summer.

Lifetime fill is too subjective. Lifetime of what? A car's life relies entirely on how well you maintain it. You can be meticulous and get 400K out of a car or beat the shit out of it and get 40K out of a car. BOTH are a car's lifetime.

Change the filter too. You will be very surprised at how much sludge will be on the magnets

[no thx]

For those that used the Meyle filter option, has there been any issues?

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Meyle filter is made in taiwan, and it also doesn't come with replacement drain/fill plugs. I would recommend official ZF one for that reason.

[MSq5]

Meyle filter is made in taiwan, and it also doesn't come with replacement drain/fill plugs. I would recommend official ZF one for that reason.

Meyle is OEM quality. I've used their filters for . . . decades in various vehicles. So, I went with the FCP Euro kit. FWIW, ZF does not manufacture filters. They are bought from a vendor and rebranded. I'm sure they are excellent quality. Meyle is, too. Mann, Meyle, Hengst and Bosch are all excellent euro-spec filters across the board. I would not hesitate to use any of those brand names.

Lack of new drain/fill plugs are irrelevant to me. They are not the same design as oil plugs. I've never replaced a fill plug on any fluid on any vehicle - auto, truck, industrial or farm engine. Not on differentials, transmissions, gear boxes. I've been wrenching over 50 years.

As to the drain plug - take a good look at the OEM design. It has a built-in o-ring. If it is damaged, you will get a leak right away. They don't wait to leak. Either they seal or they don't. Leave a clean pan under it while doing the fill and top off. If it is going to leak, you'll know it by the time you are ready to button up the bottom trays and bring the car back down off the lift or jack stands.

As to the condition of the old filter, yes, there was quite a bit of fine graphite-looking metallic sludge on the magnets. It was doing its job. Since this is the OEM filter on the car when it left the factory, it saw the original break-in period for the new transmission. It is likely that most of the particles were generated during the first few hundred miles. However, the amount of material on the magnets did cause me to do the "double fill" to further dilute the old fluid still present.

Just one opinion . . .

[bb-tt]

Meyle is OEM quality. I've used their filters for . . . decades in various vehicles. So, I went with the FCP Euro kit. FWIW, ZF does not manufacture filters. They are bought from a vendor and rebranded. I'm sure they are excellent quality. Meyle is, too. Mann, Meyle, Hengst and Bosch are all excellent euro-spec filters across the board. I would not hesitate to use any of those brand names.

Lack of new drain/fill plugs are irrelevant to me. They are not the same design as oil plugs. I've never replaced a fill plug on any fluid on any vehicle - auto, truck, industrial or farm engine. Not on differentials, transmissions, gear boxes. I've been wrenching over 50 years.

As to the drain plug - take a good look at the OEM design. It has a built-in o-ring. If it is damaged, you will get a leak right away. They don't wait to leak. Either they seal or they don't. Leave a clean pan under it while doing the fill and top off. If it is going to leak, you'll know it by the time you are ready to button up the bottom trays and bring the car back down off the lift or jack stands.

As to the condition of the old filter, yes, there was quite a bit of fine graphite-looking metallic sludge on the magnets. It was doing its job. Since this is the OEM filter on the car when it left the factory, it saw the original break-in period for the new transmission. It is likely that most of the particles were generated during the first few hundred miles. However, the amount of material on the magnets did cause me to do the "double fill" to further dilute the old fluid still present.

Just one opinion . . .

That is my plan other than i was going to try to put a couple hundred miles on it before doing the second drain and fill. was going to try and do filter and first drain today but got tied up and have dyno time scheduled 2moro morning so put off at least another week. Agree 100% on the meyle filter.

[MSq5]

Maybe its just me, but removing the transmission undertray was not easy. There are three T-25 screws. That's the easy part. There are two plastic "push" fasteners, one on each side. They don't want to come out. Eventually, I had to find a way to get a finger on the back side and pull each of the three "prongs" away from the center post to unlock it and get it out. Dealer probably just cuts them off and replaces with new to save time.

If you are going to do the double drain refill process, I recommend you leave the undertray off until completely done.

[Damonkey09]

Has anyone used a fluid evacuator to pull more out? I have ordered the 9L kit and would like to pull more out in one shot.


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[serg72]

Has anyone used a fluid evacuator to pull more out? I have ordered the 9L kit and would like to pull more out in one shot.


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I never did that, I don't think it's necessary. Replace every 60 t. Km and there will be no problems. On the reverse car was 5hp19, made a replacement every 60 t. Km and had no problems, drove 560 t. Km

[MSq5]

Has anyone used a fluid evacuator to pull more out? I have ordered the 9L kit and would like to pull more out in one shot.


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I have one, even transmission specific. Its great for filling, as it both extracts and fills by reversing the valve. It will not be of any benefit for drain, if you are thinking of inserting your hose in the fill plug. The ZF8 has a separate drain plug at the very bottom of the pan. Then you actually remove the pan to change the filter. Its like taking the pan off the engine. There will be some oil in the pan, so you tilt it and let it flow into your drain collector. You let any remaining fluid drip from the exposed transmission internals. Then you replace the filter and reinstall the pan, with a new pan gasket.

The issue is that there are chambers in the transmission that hold fluid, so does the torque converter. They do not drain. The only way to get more than about 4 maybe 4.5 liters out is by successive drain and fills to dilute the old fluid with new and drain and fill a second time. This is by using the initial fill and top off procedure each time.

[Damonkey09]

Thanks MSq5. That was what I figured but wanted to check with someone first.


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