S6/A6 V8 non-Brembo front brake upgrade

[ChicagosPhantom]

Hi everyone,


While researching rear brake upgrade for RS6 and rotor specs on different Audi's to try and pair with my 380mm 2 piece Girodiscs up front, I've come to finding that there's an easy and very cost effective upgrade for S6/A6 V8 cars that was probably overlooked.

I absolutely hate stock front brakes on my S6! Stupid HP2 setup and design... From ridiculously routed hardlines, to carriers and a slider, to caliper guide pins... I've seen people try to fit 17Z/18Z to widebody cars with no luck or too much work involved that made them quit and I haven't seen a proven method yet for real BBK on these cars to this day except 8 pot RS setup.

However there's hope!

It seems like B8 S4 rotor will be a direct bolt on to widebody cars! I think I saw someone running B8 S4 calipers and carriers on 2.7T with B6/7 rotors, so looks like complete B8 S4 front brake setup could be (and I'm 101% sure it is) an option for widebody cars!

In theory B8 S4 both caliper and rotor fits and there's no single indicator that it won't fit, that means there's more good news! Q5 4 pot Brembo caliper will work on widebody cars, because those are tested and proven bolt on upgrade on B6/7/8 S4s with stock rotors!

That's not all...! Girodisc offers two piece rotors for B8 S4/5s here https://www.girodisc.com/Girodisc-Fr...S5_p_6604.html and you can see they're confirming that Q5 caliper will work with B8 S4 stock rotor!

I'm not sure if anyone pulled this one off, but I certainly haven't seen anyone running setup like this on widebody C5 so far.

We all know that B6/7 S4 front brake setup is a direct bolt on to a 2.7 cars.

C5 2.7T


B6/7 S4


These two pics confirm that.

Rotor size between B6/7 and B8 S4s is identical, except different offset... and that offset is spot on for widebody C5 cars.

C5 V8 S6/A6


B8 S4


So there it is, simple as that!

There's bunch of indicators that have confirmed everything on the paper and in theory, however I don't have all the parts sitting around to test fit and confirm, but I'm 100% sure this will work! That's why I'm sharing this with community!

If anyone has parts handy and can test fit it would be awesome to find out for certain if this is going to work. I'll probably end up test fitting this down the road if no one else can't.

[jbain2]

You can also use either Macan or Q5 Brembo’s. Direct bolt on. Gives you a better caliper than the stock S4 caliper.


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[ChicagosPhantom]

You can also use either Macan or Q5 Brembo’s. Direct bolt on. Gives you a better caliper than the stock S4 caliper.


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Yes, Q5 2.0T Brembo will work with stock rotors on C5 and that alone will be a huge upgrade over stock brakes.

For those who want to upgrade rotors as well should use Q5 3.0T Brembo calipers paired with B6/7 S4 rotors on 2.7T's and B8 S4 rotors on V8 S6/A6 widebody cars.

Funny thing is that I saw your post about fitting those the very next morning after I wrote that thread. Which confirmed my findings even more.

[jbain2]

Nice thing is all parts are OTS and can be easily had, fit correctly with the right offset and don’t require modifications , like the 17z/18z which require modding the uprights the Volvo/Merc rotors only to have a rotor with the incorrect offset (unless your order 2 piece rotors from Girodisc/Apikol/JHM).


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[ChicagosPhantom]

Nice thing is all parts are OTS and can be easily had, fit correctly with the right offset and don’t require modifications , like the 17z/18z which require modding the uprights the Volvo/Merc rotors only to have a rotor with the incorrect offset (unless your order 2 piece rotors from Girodisc/Apikol/JHM).


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Exactly!

How do you like pedal feel with those on and how's the stopping power?

I'm sure it's a huge improvement over stock, especially with B6/7 rear.

[RexNICO]

I would think the front rotor from an A6/C6 should be pretty close as well
347 dia
52.7 hat height
30 mm thickness

I've been trying to find a 360mm dia rotor with a similar hat height to allow putting A8/D4 front brakes on any B5/C5/B6 chassis. Any thoughts?

[ChicagosPhantom]

I would think the front rotor from an A6/C6 should be pretty close as well
347 dia
52.7 hat height
30 mm thickness

I've been trying to find a 360mm dia rotor with a similar hat height to allow putting A8/D4 front brakes on any B5/C5/B6 chassis. Any thoughts?

I was looking at those as well, but my finding is 59.5 hat height on C6 rotor, that's 7mm difference that I don't think could be pulled off without modification and adding spacers between caliper carrier and upright.

I have nothing on fitting D4 to these. Neither I can think of 360mm rotor that could work.

[NWS6]

Great options for the C5 S6!
Now, Who's done this already? Any issues?

[jbain2]

Exactly!

How do you like pedal feel with those on and how's the stopping power?

I'm sure it's a huge improvement over stock, especially with B6/7 rear.

Honestly when I got the car the rotors were so bad I had to do the swap immediately. My B5 has the HP calipers. The biggest difference is pedal modulation. Much more immediate response. Not spongy.

I didn’t do the B6 rears on my Allroad. Just upgraded to the V8 rear setup.


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[j0wE]

D3 A8/A8L front brakes are bolt on(for C5/D2 v8, not RS6 or 4.2 allroad) and 360mm. Only 2 pistons though, But inexpensive.

[PZ.]

Don't you need centering rings for the B8 rotor on the C5?

[ChicagosPhantom]

Don't you need centering rings for the B8 rotor on the C5?

If you look closely at two pics with specs for both rotors you'll find the answer.

[RdSnake]

D3 A8/A8L front brakes are bolt on(for C5/D2 v8, not RS6 or 4.2 allroad) and 360mm. Only 2 pistons though, But inexpensive.

Are they better, though, than S6 setup?

[j0wE]

Are they better, though, than S6 setup?

Might not be better than S6, but less expensive and definitely better than stock.

[ChicagosPhantom]

Are they better, though, than S6 setup?

I would say those would be better than stock, newer design.

Might not be better than S6, but less expensive and definitely better than stock.

...only thing I can think as downfall is weight, 360mm rotors must be way heavier than stock or 345mm rotor.

[mercurial_c5s6]

Yet another post which shows why I love audizine forums and all the awesome people who contribute! Thanks for posting this ChicagosPhantom, I think you may have just saved me substantial time and headaches trying to sort out a huge issue I've just had w ECS.

After much research in these forums on front BBK options, I ended up going back and forth between the 18z w JHM 2 piece or what I ended up eventually deciding on after much discussion with ECS (phone, chat and exploring their website), the q5 bbk they are now offering as a bolt-on option for c5s. They were fully aware of my application and confirmed the kit I ordered would work, but while installing this past Friday, I very frustratingly came to find out that the rotors are made for the non-widebody 16.7mm rotor offset . To make things worse, when I got their customer service on the phone, they could not seem to tell me if any of the other rotors they produce/carry would fit the 22.7mm offset required for correct fitment with the hub on the s6.

Being relatively non-technical (especially when it comes to breaks), can anyone please answer the question asked above about centering rings? I see the difference of 0.3mm in the height and 0.05mm on the bolt size, but don't really understand how that affects things. TIA

[Bordom]

Yet another post which shows why I love audizine forums and all the awesome people who contribute! Thanks for posting this ChicagosPhantom, I think you may have just saved me substantial time and headaches trying to sort out a huge issue I've just had w ECS.

After much research in these forums on front BBK options, I ended up going back and forth between the 18z w JHM 2 piece or what I ended up eventually deciding on after much discussion with ECS (phone, chat and exploring their website), the q5 bbk they are now offering as a bolt-on option for c5s. They were fully aware of my application and confirmed the kit I ordered would work, but while installing this past Friday, I very frustratingly came to find out that the rotors are made for the non-widebody 16.7mm rotor offset . To make things worse, when I got their customer service on the phone, they could not seem to tell me if any of the other rotors they produce/carry would fit the 22.7mm offset required for correct fitment with the hub on the s6.

Being relatively non-technical (especially when it comes to breaks), can anyone please answer the question asked above about centering rings? I see the difference of 0.3mm in the height and 0.05mm on the bolt size, but don't really understand how that affects things. TIA

If you look at the section that says "Hub Reg" it is exactly the same.

[mercurial_c5s6]

If you look at the section that says "Hub Reg" it is exactly the same.

Thanks for the info, Bordom.

Update:

I managed to track down a set of b8/b8.5 s4/s5 rotors to test fit. While it was up on the lift we managed to find the following (this is using the q5 3.0T front calipers):

Much better in that the disc no longer touching the caliper but there's still clearance imbalance. There's slightly more clearance between the outer surface of the disc to the caliper compared to the inner surface of the disc to the caliper, about a millimeter. I suspect this is due to the .3mm difference in step-height (referenced in ChicagoPhantom's images above). The inner pad is a little difficult to get in because of this, but seems that this could be solved by removing a shim on the back of the pads (posi quiet ceramics ST105.16630) to make up the difference.

Now that I have a fit, I'll be installing soon and will post again with some updates in the next few weeks once I've been running them for a bit.

[Mr.Couch]

subbed for this, I am going to be doing the Q5 upgrade shortly and would love to know an exact plug and play kit!

[SUBAMMAS]

Rotor size between B6/7 and B8 S4s is identical, except different offset... and that offset is spot on for widebody C5 cars.

C5 V8 S6/A6


B8 S4

Forgive the n00b question, but does this apply to the V8 Allroad, as well? I'm looking to upgrade the fronts (at least) as I can't stand the pedal feel. Too much travel and too soft before it starts to bring the car down from speed, and then it's not progressive at all (more like a light switch... off, then ON).

[ChicagosPhantom]

Thanks for the info, Bordom.

Update:

I managed to track down a set of b8/b8.5 s4/s5 rotors to test fit. While it was up on the lift we managed to find the following (this is using the q5 3.0T front calipers):

Much better in that the disc no longer touching the caliper but there's still clearance imbalance. There's slightly more clearance between the outer surface of the disc to the caliper compared to the inner surface of the disc to the caliper, about a millimeter. I suspect this is due to the .3mm difference in step-height (referenced in ChicagoPhantom's images above). The inner pad is a little difficult to get in because of this, but seems that this could be solved by removing a shim on the back of the pads (posi quiet ceramics ST105.16630) to make up the difference.

Now that I have a fit, I'll be installing soon and will post again with some updates in the next few weeks once I've been running them for a bit.

I wouldn't take the shim out. You need it in there, reduces noise and vibration, protects the pad and pistons from direct contact and possible damage.
You could shave upright slightly, don't think it's necessary, 1mm difference isn't that big of an issue. Make sure you compressed pistons all the way in. Should leave enough room to slide the pad easy in and out. Once you run the pad for a bit and protective cote is off, it'll be easier to maneuver once needed.

[ChicagosPhantom]

Forgive the n00b question, but does this apply to the V8 Allroad, as well? I'm looking to upgrade the fronts (at least) as I can't stand the pedal feel. Too much travel and too soft before it starts to bring the car down from speed, and then it's not progressive at all (more like a light switch... off, then ON).

Both, V6 and V8 allroad use same hub and rotors. This is only applies to V8 A6 or S6 cars.
For allroad fitment you need B6/7 S4 rotors.

[SUBAMMAS]

Both, V6 and V8 allroad use same hub and rotors. This is only applies to V8 A6 or S6 cars.
For allroad fitment you need B6/7 S4 rotors.

Gotcha. Thanks for the quick response!

[Mr.Couch]

So couple questions... I have an 2002 S6

Which Q5 brembos are the correct ones?
8R0615108F Right Front
8R0615107F Left Front

8R0615108G Right Front
8R0615107G Left Front

8R0615108H Right Front
8R0615107H Left Front

What Brake lines would I need? (Car, part#, etc..)

What Rotor / Pads can I use with this setup? Car is strictly a DD I don't need much of a performance increase if it means parts are more scarce or expensive. What would ensure a perfect fit vs a near perfect fit. I know The Q5 Brembos had eitheer a 345mm option as well as a 320mm option which is the identical size to the S6.

Sorry If it's been answered. Just looking for part #'s and definitive answers.

[mercurial_c5s6]

I wouldn't take the shim out. You need it in there, reduces noise and vibration, protects the pad and pistons from direct contact and possible damage.
You could shave upright slightly, don't think it's necessary, 1mm difference isn't that big of an issue. Make sure you compressed pistons all the way in. Should leave enough room to slide the pad easy in and out. Once you run the pad for a bit and protective cote is off, it'll be easier to maneuver once needed.

My mechanic who has been working exclusively on VAG cars for 30+ years felt the shims should come out, so I wasn't going to argue with him, but I did relay your feedback and he shared the following during the final install:

"Good update but the shim had to be removed as we would have had to force the pad in thereby jamming the disc. It would have over-heated the disc if we had driven it this way. The pads with the shims on them are configured to just slip in with a very minimal touch on the disc in an OEM configuration. Removing the shim on one pad gave us the exact clearance to just slip the pad in rather than having to force it in and put pressure on the disc."

I just got the car back this morning and so far alongside adding the perforated leather rs6 wheel with paddles (with the vcds recoding) and a tranny fluid service, the car feels phenomenal. Thanks again for this post Phantom!

I'll try and take some good pics of how they look behind my 18" BBS SRs soon

[mercurial_c5s6]

On a related note, although the b8 rotors work, I still have aspirations of getting a perfectly fitted, reasonably priced rotor solution for this setup. That said, during this frustrating ECS experience, I reached out and had a couple really interesting conversations with Rob at Rotorlabs out in Washington state. From some preliminary discussions, they could be interested in producing a 345mm rotor with the exact right specs for this caliper and the s6 offset. The one caveat is that he would need enough demand to offset the costs for their initial research and production.

So for any of you S6 owners out there wanting to run this awesome bolt-on q5/macan brembo upgrade with the perfectly specced (and inexpensive compared to 2-piece) rotors to compliment, please either post here (lmk if I'm hijacking the thread against your intent, Phantom and I'll edit accordingly) or pm me if you have serious interest.

[SUBAMMAS]

My mechanic who has been working exclusively on VAG cars for 30+ years felt the shims should come out, so I wasn't going to argue with him, but I did relay your feedback and he shared the following during the final install:

"Good update but the shim had to be removed as we would have had to force the pad in thereby jamming the disc. It would have over-heated the disc if we had driven it this way. The pads with the shims on them are configured to just slip in with a very minimal touch on the disc in an OEM configuration. Removing the shim on one pad gave us the exact clearance to just slip the pad in rather than having to force it in and put pressure on the disc."

I just got the car back this morning and so far alongside adding the perforated leather rs6 wheel with paddles (with the vcds recoding) and a tranny fluid service, the car feels phenomenal. Thanks again for this post Phantom!

I'll try and take some good pics of how they look behind my 18" BBS SRs soon

It would have made more sense to source appropriate thickness precision shim washers to position the caliper properly. Or, whisker off the necessary amount from the mounting ears of the caliper if it has to go the other way. YMMV.

[pkt1213]

I was going to talk to them about their 17z and 18z kits. I wonder if they already have a rotor in stock that would work, like maybe the 18z rotor.

2003 S6, 01E swapped

Gone but not forgotten:
2002 A4 Avant 3.0, 01E
2003 allroad 2.7, 01E

[surferdude]

To start, I’m a bit of a Luddite when it comes to brake set-ups.
If the B8 S4 setup will work on our C5 S6’s , would this 19z Kit from JHM then work? (maybe necessitates a caliper spacer?)


https://jhmotorsports.com/front-bbk-...-s4-s5-q5.html


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[mercurial_c5s6]

As promised, some pics of the new setup behind my 18" SRs:

IMG_0628.jpgIMG_0941.jpg

My wheels are in dire need of a wash clearly, but so far so good (aside from the crapness of these white-box Chinese discs). Also, I had the calipers powder coated prior to install, very happy with the work they did.

Now I just need to find somewhere to source a few high-quality Audi Sport or S6 decals from Please chime in or PM me if anyone out there has some good leads.

[pkt1213]

Looks good. That is the B8 S4 rotors/Q5 Brembos with the inner pad shim removed?

2003 S6, 01E swapped

Gone but not forgotten:
2002 A4 Avant 3.0, 01E
2003 allroad 2.7, 01E

[mercurial_c5s6]

Thanks. Yes, exactly.

[suppressed]

Now I just need to find somewhere to source a few high-quality Audi Sport or S6 decals from Please chime in or PM me if anyone out there has some good leads.

I'd have them etched/engraved and paint the inset, but that's probably not an option now that they're powder coated.

[mercurial_c5s6]

So couple questions... I have an 2002 S6

Which Q5 brembos are the correct ones?
8R0615108F Right Front
8R0615107F Left Front

8R0615108G Right Front
8R0615107G Left Front

8R0615108H Right Front
8R0615107H Left Front

What Brake lines would I need? (Car, part#, etc..)

What Rotor / Pads can I use with this setup? Car is strictly a DD I don't need much of a performance increase if it means parts are more scarce or expensive. What would ensure a perfect fit vs a near perfect fit. I know The Q5 Brembos had eitheer a 345mm option as well as a 320mm option which is the identical size to the S6.

Sorry If it's been answered. Just looking for part #'s and definitive answers.

Updated
I think (and this is definitive per my ECS parts list invoice which I recently found) that the correct p/n for these calipers is the set ending in G I bolded in your quoted message. This seems to be backed by searching genuineaudiparts when I look up the 2015 SQ5 that has the 3.0T engine and 345mm rotors as required.

The rotors I used, which are going well so far, are 345mm x 30mm from the B8/B8.5 S4 or S5. I've been using the white box s5 rotors I manged to get my hands on in a pinch when I realized the ECS kit discs wouldn't work, but if I did it again would try and source something better like zimmermann or brembo and probably would've gone cross drilled.

Here is a link to the ECS kit for reference if you want to try and extrapolate some of the other parts like lines or pads from there:

ecstuning.com/b-ecs-parts/front-big-brake-kit-stage-3-cross-drilled-slotted-rotors-345x30/025997ecs0541kt/

Here's a photo of the full parts set in the Kit ECS offers (with the wrong rotors for the 22mm widebody offset) on the invoice:

IMG_1177.jpg

[moyenecorniche]

Bump to answer on the 360 rotor size.. Brembo prt # 09.B769.51 for 2010 C63 AMG.

I would think the front rotor from an A6/C6 should be pretty close as well
347 dia
52.7 hat height
30 mm thickness

I've been trying to find a 360mm dia rotor with a similar hat height to allow putting A8/D4 front brakes on any B5/C5/B6 chassis. Any thoughts?

[SUBAMMAS]

Bringing this back up to the top, as I have a question:

For those that did the Macan/Q5 caliper upgrade, what did you do for the pad wear sensor(s)? Did you have to splice the plug from the AR on to the later dual sensor wire, or is there one that's plug-n-play?

I've sourced all the pieces to upgrade my AR, and this is the final piece of the puzzle.

[S/RConcepts]

Bringing this back up to the top, as I have a question:

For those that did the Macan/Q5 caliper upgrade, what did you do for the pad wear sensor(s)? Did you have to splice the plug from the AR on to the later dual sensor wire, or is there one that's plug-n-play?

I've sourced all the pieces to upgrade my AR, and this is the final piece of the puzzle.

When I did the Q5 Brembos on my 4.2, I just used the Q5 sensors as they plugged right in. They're available in both single and dual sensor, I went with single just to keep it simple, but the dual uses the same plug.

[SUBAMMAS]

When I did the Q5 Brembos on my 4.2, I just used the Q5 sensors as they plugged right in. They're available in both single and dual sensor, I went with single just to keep it simple, but the dual uses the same plug.

Awesome! Just what I was looking for. I wasn't sure if the plug was the same, but I knew the dual sensor was a possibility.

Thanks a bunch!!

[S/RConcepts]

Awesome! Just what I was looking for. I wasn't sure if the plug was the same, but I knew the dual sensor was a possibility.

Thanks a bunch!!

You bet! It's tricky to sus out unless you have the parts in hand, plus I know my 2.8 Avant has new pads and still throws a notification on the LCD that the pads are worn... it can be a bit of a pain to work through these details lol.

[moyenecorniche]

Posting the link to my BBK DIY of Q7 front & rear calipers to my C5 2005 2.7T allroad. Maybee it can be of help to some. https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...K-from-2010-Q7