2006 A4 Fix it or Not

[Xjac0bmichaelX]

Alright folks, been awhile since I've been on here because the A4 ran from 100k to 190k without a single problem. Now I need some help making a decision.

The daily driver is a 2006 A4 B7 Quattro S-Line, manual, 190k miles

Last week I started getting P0010 code and a very rough idle. I ran through the diagnostics, checked fuses and relays, and replaced the N205 Valve with no improvement. It's cold here in Illinois and decided I had reached the end of what I was willing to do in my garage.

The mechanic basically spent $1600 to replace the intake manifold (leaking), oil separator (leaking), and also the fuel pump "lifter" and then tells me now that both the front and rear crank cover seals are leaking oil. I've never added any oil to it, but whatever. He says it has an air leak through both seals. Now he wants another $2600 to pull the transmission, might as well do the clutch, and also pull the front end and replace the front cover gasket.

I think the car is worth about $3,000. I also owe about $2,400 on it still. Any feedback is welcome. Should I have it fixed? Attempt it myself? Part it out? Repair costs seem reasonable? Thanks

[hvcceducator]

sounds like your getting ripped. u paid 600 bucks and drove for 80k thats pretty good. doubt anyone wants to buy that mess. maybe trade it in but who knows what they will give you for it and how much you can get financed. gl

[oVeRdOsE]

[Jay-Bee]

OP buy some tools and tackle this stuff yourself, it's all relatively easy weekend projects.

Your "mechanic" is taking you for a spin.

[Xjac0bmichaelX]

From the research I've done in a few hours it sounds like this would require removing the whole front end and all the timing components to get the crank pulley off. Then transmission off in the back plus oil pan to get the rear main seal off. Need a special tool for that too.

[Jay-Bee]

Are your crank seals puking out oil? Is it critical this work be done ASAP?

[Charles.waite]

^^ Likely not critical. You can stick a borescope in the transmission and you might be able to see if there is a leak from the rear main seal. The front crank seal does indeed require removal of the crank gear so the timing belt needs to come off, but thats not the worst thing ever. Mut I've heard this "air leak from the crank seal" thing a few times now and I'm not really sure if its a legitimate thing or not. Maybe someone who is familiar with this stuff and works on cars can debunk or verify the validity of that. Also wtf is he talking abotu the front cover gasket? Never heard of such a thing on our cars.

Regardless, none of those things are critical at all to me. If you're losing enough oil to leave drips on the ground that is more of a concern. The only issue with the rear main seal is that oil leaks can foul the clutch, but 1) you'll notice it getting slippy long before it dies, and 2) its not really the end of the world and isn't worth addressing until your clutch needs replacement.

I'd thank the mechanic for their work so far and roll the dice on these "leaky" seals as I really don't think they're that important to address at this moment.

[Xjac0bmichaelX]

Thanks for the input. I originally thought that there was a cover under the timing pulleys that had a gasket on it. Now I see that it's just behind the crank pulley. It wasn't losing much oil until he had it, but he did replace the oil separator and the intake manifold. I'm not sure how he diagnosed that it was both seals but the codes are for intake leaks and I think it's still not idling well. He made it sound like oil was leaking out fast, but I'm going in there tomorrow to see.

[aluthman]

Sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me... completely unnecessary to replace the intake manifold when a new gasket would have sufficed. Find a new mechanic.

[vce1232000]

Sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me... completely unnecessary to replace the intake manifold when a new gasket would have sufficed. Find a new mechanic.

To he aint closer to you. Easy $$$$ rite there for yaa

[Jet08]

So by oil separator do you mean PCV if so may be they put the wrong one in there is an early and late model version this can cause issues.

[Xjac0bmichaelX]

He replaced the intake manifold because it was warped. Diagnosed that leak with ether. I think it did have minor boost leaks for a long time, it's never really had the turbo feeling when driving it. He described the oil separator as the housing that you screw the filter into.

[EvolutionArmory]

Excess crankcase pressure can absolutely blow out a rear main seal so I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that the guy is wrong or trying to rip you off.

But, if HVCCeducator thinks you might be getting ripped off, maybe you should believe him. It takes a con man to know a con man. He would be able to tell a rip off artist a mile away. He looks at one in the mirror every day.

[A4_PimP]

He replaced the intake manifold because it was warped. Diagnosed that leak with ether. I think it did have minor boost leaks for a long time, it's never really had the turbo feeling when driving it. He described the oil separator as the housing that you screw the filter into.

The housing you screw the oil filter into? I'm certainly not as good as some of the guys on here but if this mechanic is not able to call the parts by the correct name that is a flag. I'm not saying that is the case I'm just saying dig more or take it somewhere else. It's good to get a second opinion but make sure you take it somewhere good.

[EvolutionArmory]

The oil separator is the PCV valve. There is a PCV hose that comes out of the oil filter housing so technically, the oil filter housing could be considered part of the PCV system.

OP, are you sure it’s not you mixing up what he is saying?

[Xjac0bmichaelX]

Ok I just got back from the mechanic and took pictures. I'm tending to think he isn't screwing me over now. He has about 10 years experience at the Audi/VW dealer and now works on his own. He doesn't have any official Audi diagnostic hardware. The whole situation is insane. The engine had so many
small leaks! He keeps plugging one and it makes another one worse. It's like a frickin cartoon boat sinking! EvolutionArmory is right; it was the PCV valve and the oil filter housing. The housing was leaking oil from both sides. Various vacuum check valves had failed. The intake manifold was warped and leaking from the seam shown in the pictures. He opened up the valve cover and found that gasket shot, replaced all the coils and even the HPFP Lifter (pics attached). Valve-train looks good but it did get new cams at 100k. Engine is still missing but the P0010 code is gone. Still has an intake leak code.

My theory is that fixing the intake leaks on the manifold increased crank case pressure so much that it started pushing oil out the crank seals. He showed me that the front one is worse so I had him go ahead and replace that one. He says that it's more likely that air is leaking into the rear crank seal because it's larger.

IMG_20190124_111551.jpgIMG_20190124_111556.jpgIMG_20190124_111626.jpgIMG_20190124_111854.jpgIMG_20190124_112050.jpg

[A U D I]

My opinion:
$1,600 to still have the same problem you started with and this person wants $2600 more tells me you need to go elsewhere. You could have gone to the dealership and had them tell you why you had the check code for less then $200. I do feel like you are being taken a bit here and need a better person working on your car before you are out more money. You have a 2006 2.0T with 1 check code, nothing crazy that should cost you so much and still have the same code.

[bigheadb7]

90k without issues that’s pretty impressive, i bought the car with 95k and i had to deal with so much regular maintenance that now I kinda hate the car, but it is what it is.


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[jason96r]

You've spent so much already. Buy vcds or even ECStuning Schwabben scan tool. That mechanic should have that at least. Will allow you to run logs and let people here know soft codes. I have the Schwabben you can add other makes for $60 I also have Ford, Mopar, and GM to go with VAG.

[dalmation53]

🤣images.jpeg

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[EvolutionArmory]

If you had a severe PCV failure, the car will try to push that excess crankcase build up out of EVERY possible weakness from the oil cap down to the oil filter housing to the rear main. Every seal will be pushed to its limit and there’s quite a few of them. When the OEM PCV system is working it’s actually pretty excellent. When it fails it can fail hard. Lol!! Especially if you don’t catch it and keep driving. I noticed a little oil on my valve cover bolts last year and immediately bought a new valve and valve cover gasket but I’m in my engine bay what seems like every week so I catch shit like that early. Next month I get a new oil filter housing. Yay!! 😀

It seems this mechanic is just doing his due diligence. This shit isn’t cheap to fix and it’s not his fault the car needs all that stuff

[Xjac0bmichaelX]

90k without issues that’s pretty impressive, i bought the car with 95k and i had to deal with so much regular maintenance that now I kinda hate the car, but it is what it is.

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I still had to do maintenance, just no major failures. I did replace the turbo diverter valve a while back.

[Xjac0bmichaelX]

If you had a severe PCV failure, the car will try to push that excess crankcase build up out of EVERY possible weakness from the oil cap down to the oil filter housing to the rear main. Every seal will be pushed to its limit and there’s quite a few of them

So, he replaced the valve cover and gasket, the PCV valve, and all the hoses with check valves, plus the oil filter housing. This is basically the entire PCV system. If this is true, then why would the seals be failing now that everything is replaced? And this is at idle, not under boost.

2019-01-25 09_15_59-SHIRO - PCV system explained.jpg Thanks to Shiro for this write up.

[Charles.waite]

So, he replaced the valve cover and gasket, the PCV valve, and all the hoses with check valves, plus the oil filter housing. This is basically the entire PCV system. If this is true, then why would the seals be failing now that everything is replaced? And this is at idle, not under boost.

2019-01-25 09_15_59-SHIRO - PCV system explained.jpg Thanks to Shiro for this write up.

The seals already had failed because the PCV stuff was toast and allowing the crankcase to pressurize and blow out the seals. It happens, especially as our cars get older and new owners don’t know all the niggles with the platform.

[A U D I]

My question to the mechanic is why the same code is there yet he is $1,600 in and wants $2,600 more. Just looking out for you OP.
Sometimes when people have not put money into repairs for a while, they think they need to because of it. Could be a simple repair bill and now it’s more.

[Xjac0bmichaelX]

My question to the mechanic is why the same code is there yet he is $1,600 in and wants $2,600 more. Just looking out for you OP.
Sometimes when people have not put money into repairs for a while, they think they need to because of it. Could be a simple repair bill and now it’s more.

He did get rid of the P0010 code. It's still got misfire codes and air intake leaks codes. You would think it all spurred from one issue, but hard to tell the cause and effects.

[A U D I]

He did get rid of the P0010 code. It's still got misfire codes and air intake leaks codes. You would think it all spurred from one issue, but hard to tell the cause and effects.

Thought I read you still had the same code. Guess not. I don’t think I read you had other codes at the time either.
I am still challenged on how his repairs are looking and the cost you are at. I’m not there, however it’s not adding up as correct repairs to me. Good luck with what you choose to do, although you might want a second opinion on repairs.

[EvolutionArmory]

Loose repair labor estimate. Just guesses.

R&r tranny and clutch kit, replace seal, reseal that area of the oil pan 5+ hours.

Replace front crank seal and retime the motor 3-4 hours

R&r intake manifold 3 hours

Just based off of those numbers, that’s 1200 in labor at 100 dollars an hour

Factor in diag time, another couple hours.

Now factor in parts. Intake manifolds can be as much as 300 bucks alone. An OEM oil filter housing is 225 and a PCV valve is 50. Plus the hoses

Now factor in shop supplies. Coolant, oil, etc

The shit adds up quick.

[Xjac0bmichaelX]

Thanks, this helps a lot. I'd say he is doubling his hours. Had it for a week now, says it won't be done till mid next week.

R&r tranny and clutch kit, replace seal, reseal that area of the oil pan 5+ hours. <<< He said 9 hours

Replace front crank seal and retime the motor 3-4 hours <<<says 9 hours

[EvolutionArmory]

I have no idea what the actual Alldata shop hours are. Book time for dropping the transmission, removing the clutch and the rear main could be a 10-13 hour book job. I don’t think I could do one in under a day when I was a tech. I did a 2.5L Jetta tranny swap in 3 hours once but those are cake.

Just to make sure we are clear, I’m trying to tell you that your mechanic’s prices aren’t out of line. Just my rough guess of what labor MIGHT be is a huge chunk of change.

[Theiceman]

I'm not sure I believe misfires are due to rms seal failure .. just my opinion though ,, that thing would have to be sucking a lot of air.

[Jet08]

Agreed it is unlikely the misfires are from seal leak air incursion, I had the hose from the pcv to the oil filter housing crack with a lot of un-metered air entering the engine it threw a code but otherwise ran fairly well.

[Xjac0bmichaelX]

Problem Solved!
Wow so happy to finally get some good news. He gets the front end off and the timing cover off to find the CAM SEAL COMPLETELY OUT. Root cause right there. New crank and cam seal, new timing belt, and it's running like it's brand new. Total cost was about $2600. Heading to go pick it up now. Thanks everyone and hopefully this helps someone else with similar issues.

First Symptoms - P0010 code and very rough idle.
Later symptoms - misfires, intake leak codes, oil in the belly pan.

Troubleshooting steps.
1. Electrical - Fuses and Relays
2. N205 Valve replaced - resistance out of spec.
3. New intake manifold
4. PCV valve, oil filter housing, and various PCV check valves replaced.
5. HPFP cam follower checked and replaced.
6. Front end removed and timing cover removed to find cam seal missing.
7. Replaced front crank seal, cam seal, and timing belt.

Root cause - missing cam seal
Other contributing factors - various small PCV and intake leaks, crank seals leaking. Oil soaked timing belt.

[A U D I]

Awesome, good to hear !

[Theiceman]

cam seal ? are you talking about the plug at the back of the head on the intake cam side ? or the seal around the cam advance unit on the front embedded into the upper timing cover ?

[Jet08]

Seems the best way to put your kids through college is to charge $2,600 for an unrealistic failure repair, the probability of both the cam and crank seal hanging out would be less than winning the lottery.

[RJB_melangeb5]

I'm in Illinois I can direct you to people who will properly take care of you. If you choose to get the car fixed. Your definitely getting taken advantage of. Go to GRD tuned in West chicago. I used to work there. They will properly take care of you they won't even work on it if it's not worth it they would tell you to get rid of it not just make you throw money at something.

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