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  1. #1
    Veteran Member Three Rings AudiNike12's Avatar
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    2.7T timing belt service - Advice?

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    So I've decided to tackle this on my own in the new year since it's time. Never done anything like this and it looks a bit scary to be honest. But I really wanna do it and have the experience. Just ordered a timing belt kit(Gates), water pump(Graf) and thermostat(Mahle) for $200. Not too bad. Have looked around a little and it looks like I don't really need the cam lock bar and locking pin as long as I mark it up well.

    To drain the coolant, can I just pull the lower radiator hose or how is that usually done? You have any pointers/advice for me that would be helpful? The real hassle seems to be to get the front off.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Two Rings mr_dave's Avatar
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    You absolutely need the cam lock bar and lock pin to get proper results. There's no reason not to when it's so cheap: https://www.amazon.com/8MILELAKE-Cam...dp/B07HHWVWGY/

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Three Rings AudiNike12's Avatar
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    Oh ok. That's not too bad. The ones I looked at cost around $100. Is there a good write-up somewhere with pictures? I don't understand when I should use the lock bar and pin though.
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  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings mattlqx's Avatar
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    I was troubleshooting coolant leaks for a few months before I finally said screw it and did the full timing service (kind of unsuccessfully mind you, see my thread). So I've taken the engine bay apart about 5 times now recently. The most annoying part is absolutely disconnecting the radiator. Not only do you have the coolant to catch and deal with, you have transmission fluid as well as the radiator also acts as trans cooler. At least on an auto, not sure about manual. My strategy has been to disconnect the lower radiator hose, allow that to drain completely. Then disconnect the transmission cooler hard lines and quickly cap them with vacuum caps. You don't want to lose a lot of trans fluid as filling it again is kind of a bitch that requires hopping in and out of the car, filing and then running through gears all while your transmission is below a certain temp that you need to monitor with VCDS. It also helps if you can cap the hard line connections on the radiator itself to maintain as much fluid as possible there.

    Once that's dealt with, there's nothing too hard involved in removing the front clip completely. Aside from unseating the A/C condenser and power steering cooling loop, the rest of it can come out as one whole unit after all the electrical connections are disconnected. It really helps if you have a pair of very long shoulder bolts to use on the crash supports that will allow the front clip to slide out a little bit while you disconnect everything.

    Word of warning on the radiator, depending on how long it's been since it was last disconnected and how hot your engine bay usually is, the connections may not separate freely. It's plastic on plastic and over time they can fuse together. This happened to me on the top connection. It wasn't a big deal since the original problem with the car was that the plastic end cap of that radiator was busted so I needed to replace it anyway, but if these connections break on you, you'll have to replace your radiator and/or the hoses as well.

    As for the timing service itself, you really need those three tools: camshaft lock bar, crank lock pin, timing tensioner lock pin. And something to pull at least one of the camshaft pulleys, either an appropriate side two-jaw or three-jaw puller or the actual T40001 tool. The latter will save you some annoyance probably. Heed the advice of others out there in that your pulleys should be free in order to properly tension the belt. This is probably where I went astray.

    You probably want to do more than just those three components while you're there, at minimum the tensioner roller and the tensioner itself. Doing the front main seal wouldn't hurt either. It's relatively easy to do, again with the right tool. But the torque spec on the crank sprocket suuucccks and apparently it's possible to mess up the keyway on the sprocket or crank if you're not careful. I had no issue at all, but Blauparts has a whole page on how people have messed this up.

    You set everything to TDC and put the crank lock pin in. Then do all the work like that. The camshaft lock comes on and off a few times depending. I used Blaupart's write up (as I bought their kit). https://www.blauparts.com/install_instructions/147.pdf

    Lastly, I'd recommend not doing it yourself unless you have VCDS. It's extremely helpful in order to recover from any potential mistakes you might make. Primarily troubleshooting timing issues or the aforementioned transmission fill should you lose too much fluid.
    Tons of Audis, Tons of Mustangs. That's just how I am.

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Three Rings AudiNike12's Avatar
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    Pray for me The tensioner and tensioner roller are included in the kit so I plan to do those. Guess I'll buy the cam lock bar and lock pin also. Or I borrow it from someone. I do have VCDS. Maybe I should find a cheap barely working car to do this on first lol. I know a mechanic that I used to work with. Maybe I should ask him if we can do it together
    Last edited by AudiNike12; 12-30-2018 at 10:30 AM.
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  6. #6
    Veteran Member Three Rings AudiNike12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_dave View Post
    You absolutely need the cam lock bar and lock pin to get proper results. There's no reason not to when it's so cheap: https://www.amazon.com/8MILELAKE-Cam...dp/B07HHWVWGY/
    Btw, does this lock bar fit the BES engine?
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  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings Bordom's Avatar
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    Look for the jballou 2.7t walkthrough. It's very similar to tearing apart the Allroad front end, just the bumper on the C5 ie different

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  8. #8
    Veteran Member Three Rings AudiNike12's Avatar
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    Thanks. All I could find was this. It's for an S4. It's for a 2.7t though right? Is removing the front/radiator the same procedure on the Allroad?

    https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...g-belt-newbies
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  9. #9
    Veteran Member Three Rings 2.ohhh's Avatar
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    Here's a great writeup with TONS of blow by blow pics...I'll be using this as a guide to do mine in the next couple of weeks. I did buy the lock bar though so I can do that part of the service to spec.

    https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...IY-no-lock-bar

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Three Rings AudiNike12's Avatar
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    Thanks. Think I'll follow that video by jballou also. It's great

    I bought this lock bar with lock pin. Should work: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142951946525
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  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    I"ve some how ended up with 3 pins.. and I think 2 bars.. if anyone is looking I can confirm and sell a bar/pin set.
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  12. #12
    Veteran Member Three Rings AudiNike12's Avatar
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    When I pull the transmission cooler lines off, what kind of plugs/caps do I need so I don't loose any fluid? Pics or a link where I can buy them?
    Last edited by AudiNike12; 12-31-2018 at 10:22 AM.
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  13. #13
    Veteran Member Three Rings Calif_Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AudiNike12 View Post
    Just ordered a timing belt kit(Gates), water pump(Graf) and thermostat(Mahle) for $200. Not too bad. Have looked around a little and it looks like I don't really need the cam lock bar and locking pin as long as I mark it up well.
    I believe that you'll see quite a few comments about the blue Gates timing belt squeaking when cold when used on the 2.7T engine.

    I've done two timing belt changes on the 2.7T (a 2001 A6 and a 2001 S4), and used the cam lock bar, but didn't use the locking pin, and I followed the info from JHM on their DVD that they supplied with the timing belt that I originally bought from them. When you're loosening the bolts from the crank pulley, make certain that the hex socket is fully seated in the bolts, as I had one bolt round when we did the timing belt on the S4, and it was a real pain to get it out. When it rounded, we had the front end in service position (bumper just slid forward for access), but after the bolt rounded, we removed the front bumper completely, and finally got the bolt out. Also, if you try to loosen the bolt under the throttle body for bleeding the coolant, make sure to get the hex socket fully in that bolt also. Good luck!! - Jim

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Three Rings AudiNike12's Avatar
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    That doesn't sound promising regarding the Gates belt. Hmm. Any chance I might get lucky? Thanks for the pointers :) So the crank lock pin I can manage without? It does look like a PITA to install/remove on a automatic. But I'll give it a try.

    Do I need a special puller for cam pulleys or can I just use a regular one?

    Edit: Also, if I change the camshaft seal, is there a risk of it actually starting to leak just because I changed it. If it doesn't seem to be leaking, should I just let it be? Feels like a missed opportunity not to change it while I'm down there though
    Last edited by AudiNike12; 01-01-2019 at 08:37 AM.
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  15. #15
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Use this for the puller and change the cam seal while you are in there. Make sure its in tight I blew one out and dumped 5 quarts of oil in 3 miles.
    https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Three Rings AudiNike12's Avatar
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    Sorry, I meant the crankshaft seal. Do I need a special tool for the camshaft sprocket behind the bolt?
    Last edited by AudiNike12; 01-01-2019 at 01:37 PM.
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  17. #17
    Veteran Member Three Rings 2.ohhh's Avatar
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    When do you plan on starting your project? I need to do mine, but running out of time...getting a disk replacement in my neck next week and won't be able to do any real work like this for several weeks...

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Three Rings AudiNike12's Avatar
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    In the next couple of weeks. Just waiting for all the parts and tools to arrive.

    Ah man, that sucks
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  19. #19
    Veteran Member Three Rings AudiNike12's Avatar
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    Since people have problem with the Gates belt. I don't have the racing blue belt(kevlar). I've a ordinary black Gates belt.
    Last edited by AudiNike12; 01-03-2019 at 01:43 PM.
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  20. #20
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Since I just finished a timing belt job on my 4.2 I'll throw in my 2 cents (the job is the same except for the way the belt is tensioned, which turns out to be slightly more complicated on the 4.2).

    1. It is not hard to use the cam lock bar and the crank pin properly and, if you do, you cannot get the timing wrong. I recommend using both just for peace of mind. I used cheap Chinese ones from Amazon and they worked perfectly. On the 4.2, the crank pin was difficult but not impossible to install and remove. Plan on using a couple of socket extensions and a u-joint.

    2. I don't know why there is so much talk about removing or even disconnecting the radiator. That is not necessary. You only need to put the so-called lock carrier (radiator bracket) into the so-called service position.

    3. I'm not sure if the 2.7T has a fan with a viscous hub. If it does, it has a left-hand thread and you can use a strap wrench to loosen and tighten it.

    4. If you're careful about centering it, a regular two-arm puller will work to break the cam sprockets free.

    5. When you break the cam sprockets free, the cams may rotate a bit. Do not be alarmed. When the time comes, use the lock bar to lever the cams back into position.

    6. On reassembly, install the lock bar first, tension the belt second, and tighten the cam sprockets third. The cam sprockets must spin freely when you tension the belt. Otherwise the belt will be too tight in some places and too loose in others.

    7. The Bentley manual covers this job on the V6 engines well (annoyingly, it does not cover tensioning the belt on the 4.2).

  21. #21
    Junior Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_dave View Post
    You absolutely need the cam lock bar and lock pin to get proper results. There's no reason not to when it's so cheap: https://www.amazon.com/8MILELAKE-Cam...dp/B07HHWVWGY/
    Thanks for the tip - just got mine!!

  22. #22
    Veteran Member Four Rings mattlqx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kleinewunder View Post
    2. I don't know why there is so much talk about removing or even disconnecting the radiator. That is not necessary. You only need to put the so-called lock carrier (radiator bracket) into the so-called service position.
    If you're going to do a full timing job, it much easier from an accessibility standpoint to just take the front end completely off and work in peace. If you're doing the job correctly anyway, you need to flush the system with a hose which will require disconnecting the radiator connections.

    Quote Originally Posted by kleinewunder View Post
    3. I'm not sure if the 2.7T has a fan with a viscous hub. If it does, it has a left-hand thread and you can use a strap wrench to loosen and tighten it.
    It does. The allen key trick to jam in one of the openings to prevent the hub from moving did the trick for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by kleinewunder View Post
    4. If you're careful about centering it, a regular two-arm puller will work to break the cam sprockets free.
    I used a borrowed three-jaw initially and then a two-jaw that I had to redo what I hadn't done right. They both sucked trying to center and pry evenly. I ordered a knock-off T40001 after that to hopefully have an easier time if I have to do it again in the future.
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  23. #23
    Veteran Member Three Rings AudiNike12's Avatar
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    How and when do I flush the system? Is this a must?
    Last edited by AudiNike12; 01-05-2019 at 12:07 AM.
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  24. #24
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by AudiNike12 View Post
    How and when do I flush the system? Is this a must?
    Flushing is absolutely not necessary.

    Unless you have a specific problem from using bad water or lisxi f the wrong coolant the only thing flushing will do is create buckets of toxic soup you have to figure out how to dispose of.

  25. #25
    Veteran Member Three Rings AudiNike12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris86vw View Post
    Flushing is absolutely not necessary.

    Unless you have a specific problem from using bad water or lisxi f the wrong coolant the only thing flushing will do is create buckets of toxic soup you have to figure out how to dispose of.
    Ok thanks. I'll be skipping that then
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  26. #26
    Veteran Member Four Rings mattlqx's Avatar
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    Rust gathers in the system over time, even with correct coolant mixture. The crap that came out of there when I flushed was pretty gnarly. The timing was last done one about two years ago on this vehicle and I 100% believe a lack of system flush is what caused the water pump gasket to start leaking prematurely. YMMV of course, but it’s not that hard to do while everything is disassembled and gives a lot of good piece of mind.
    Tons of Audis, Tons of Mustangs. That's just how I am.

  27. #27
    Veteran Member Three Rings AudiNike12's Avatar
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    If I change the crankshaft seal, won't there be a bunch of oil coming from there?
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  28. #28
    Veteran Member Four Rings m_haiser's Avatar
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    some but not a whole lot no.

  29. #29
    Veteran Member Three Rings AudiNike12's Avatar
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    Ok thanks :)

  30. #30
    Veteran Member Three Rings AudiNike12's Avatar
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    To remove the crankshaft sprocket, do I need a steering wheel puller for that or can i use something else?

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    Veteran Member Four Rings m_haiser's Avatar
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    give it a tap with a rubber mallet, it should come right off

  32. #32
    Veteran Member Three Rings AudiNike12's Avatar
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    Thanks, I'll try that :)
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  33. #33
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by m_haiser View Post
    give it a tap with a rubber mallet, it should come right off
    Find a friend with a 3 jaw puller

  34. #34
    Veteran Member Three Rings AudiNike12's Avatar
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    My vacation is coming up in 3 weeks and it's finally time for this. Maybe a dumb question, but can I push the car back and forth with the crank lock pin in place? In neutral? Since I've a small garage I'm gonna need to push it back and open the door and during the night push it back in and close. Don't know how long this is gonna take
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  35. #35
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Yes with the pin in you are safe to move it all you want, in gear it probably wouldn't budge actually since the crank would be locked. In neutral you should be able to move it without the pin if your concern was movement of the crank... but keep the pin in.

    I just did all my front hoses, and replaced one fan before a trip too. This heat is brutal no way I was risking it, ac is quite frosty now too with the fan working again.
    80 rabbit pickup, 98 TJ 4bt cummins, 00 180TTQ 6spd, 02 Freelander, 03 Allroad 2.7t 6spd swap now with K04s, 06 A3 2.0T w/GT3071R (2012 JSW TDI and 2015 GSW TDI now in TDI purgatory )

  36. #36
    Veteran Member Three Rings AudiNike12's Avatar
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    Thanks, that's good to know. Makes it a bit easier :)
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  37. #37
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    Well, almost 2 years later and I'm on my way. Have no idea what I'm doing so pray for me Easiest way to drain coolant is to remove the lower radiator hose no?

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  38. #38
    Senior Member Three Rings Grainreaper's Avatar
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    That's how I drain mine, pop the lower hose off. Make sure you have a big drain pan to catch the coolant in

  39. #39
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    Yeah thanks. Couldn't swing the front the way I wanted to. This is the best I could do. Think that should be enough space. If I can't get that crankshaft lock pin in because of the limited space, is it possible to do the timing job without it? I saw in a video that I can move the AC compressor out of the way to get to that plug hole. Do I have to remove the hoses from the compressor or can I just swing it outta the way?

    Last edited by AudiNike12; 08-29-2020 at 11:12 AM.
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  40. #40
    Veteran Member Three Rings AudiNike12's Avatar
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    Do I need to have the wheels off the ground to turn the crankshaft? I need to turn it to align the cams so I can install the cam lock bar. It's an automatic. Or do I put it in neutral

    Edit: Nvm, I got it. Now it's time for the crankshaft lock pin. This should be interesting

    Last edited by AudiNike12; 08-30-2020 at 03:54 AM.
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