74mm Throttle Body Testing vs Stock TB and Closed Cold Air Intake vs Open Intake....

[bhvrdr]

First, let me take the time to thank Bryan at Euromodsperformance.com for the awesome experience purchasing the IABED throttle body harness and adapter. Bryan kept me informed every step of the way and was overwhelmingly responsive, professional and polite throughout the process.

I was able to take advantage of the 10% off sale and purchased the harness for $270 and the adapter for $180. This is all that is needed. I already had a 74mm Bosch throttle body sitting around from my 997. This TB is on a ton of Porsches and can be found in great shape on ebay too for around $50.


Thank you also to Issam Abed for taking the initiative to create this harness given us a plug and play solution for upgrading TB sizes.



CONDITIONS:

All testing was performed the same day. The 74mm throttle body runs were in slightly cooler temperatures giving an unfair advantage to the throttle body test results, however the difference was approximately 5 degrees F and I attempted to control for this as well as possible by keeping starting intake temperatures as close as possible. All testing was performed on the same tank of gasoline. All air filters were brand new.


Stock run DA: +553 feet - 4:53pm

Modified Runs DA: +439 feet - 6:53pm

Ultimately its about as well controlled of a test session as you can get without having a climate controlled test cell.

The following was the vehicle setup for all runs:
2013 Audi S5, DSG with Unitronic Stage 3 file that allows up to 26 degrees timing and requests 2450mbar boost. 200mm KI pulley was installed with stock SC pulley. Divorced Revo charge cooler installed. Exhaust is stock.



TEST VARIABLES:
I tested the following setups:

1. Stock Throttle body with Modified Stock Airbox consisting of a ported airbox with AFE inverted cone oiled filter (brand new) with OEM accordion intake tube.

2. 74mm Throttle body with Modified Stock Airbox consisting of a ported airbox with AFE inverted cone oiled filter (brand new) with custom silicone intake tube reinforced in the center with a 6” long aluminum tube.

3.74mm Throttle body with APR Open Intake with custom silicone intake tube reinforced in the center with a 6” long aluminum tube.


Throttle body Part Number: 99760511501 for 74mm throttle body



RESULTS:

Here is the log of the BASELINE run with the Modified Stock Airbox and Stock Throttle Body…
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Zw...sD_qPvjLlmMqZH

Here is the log of the 74mm Throttle Body run with the Modified Stock Airbox….

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dp...zASi8TKivAZGBc

Here is the log of the 74mm Throttle Body with the APR Open Intake…

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Xa...eTmuDAXfawBnN0


VIRTUAL DYNO - COURTESY OF K186 THANK YOU




DISCUSSION:

The throttle body itself probably gained around 5-10hp. The use of an open air intake compared to a ported stock airbox with smooth intake tube and high flow air filter was also an improvement compared to the throttle body upgrade and modified stock box. Probably worth 10-12hp when combined with the 74mm throttle body. Keep in mind these gains are on a relatively tame 3.17 pulley ratio and a stock supercharger (not ported). It is possible these gains could be even more improved with higher pulley ratios and ported blowers.

Driveability has been the same as stock thus far. No issues noted. No perceivable difference noted.


PHOTOS:


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[bhvrdr]

If anyone would be so kind as to graph my results and screenshot the graphs i'll add them as photos to my original post. Thanks all!

Mike

[Morritse]

Thanks for the effort. I agree with you. It's a noticeable bump in power, but it isn't 30WHP and completely different throttle response like everyone's been saying.

[waxxonMTL]

Thanks for the effort. I agree with you. It's a noticeable bump in power, but it isn't 30WHP and completely different throttle response like everyone's been saying.

This is not I concluded from mine, and this is not what I understand from OP's conclusion neither.

Another very good post by OP :)! Well done!

[bhvrdr]

This is not I concluded from mine, and this is not what I understand from OP's conclusion neither.

Another very good post by OP :)! Well done!

Thanks guys. I think you all are agreeing with each other just misinterpreted what he said. I read it hexwas saying it is not a 30whp gain or a huge change in throttle response.

I agree. Its not to say im not pleased with the mod. Its decently priced and about exactly what id expect from a tb upgrade. I have no complaints and i appreciate issam and bryan for bringing it to market

Mike

[JACKAL]

Appreciate the detailed and thorough test plan and analysis. I have to say that so far (and with only butt dyno data), this isn't a night-and-day sort of difference. I believe I noticed some improved throttle response and I plan to grab some datalogs so I can try to better quantify what gains there may be, but I would categorize the throttle body upgrade as a rather subtle one, maybe on par with adding an open intake.

[k186]

Ran these logs through a virtual dyno (for what it's worth / no SAE correction / made a few assumptions) and came up with some decent peak HP gains it looks like.

[waxxonMTL]

Thanks guys. I think you all are agreeing with each other just misinterpreted what he said. I read it hexwas saying it is not a 30whp gain or a huge change in throttle response.

I agree. Its not to say im not pleased with the mod. Its decently priced and about exactly what id expect from a tb upgrade. I have no complaints and i appreciate issam and bryan for bringing it to market

Mike

your right, I read it wrong. Please excuse my second-language hihi ! :)

And I second the motion. By all means, I congratz Issam for bringing that mod to the market, I'm also rocking the fluidampr so I truely appreciate his implication in the 3.0T World :)

When the S/C has been ported, it just make sens to complete it with the TB mod.

[Brother Owl]

Ran these logs through a virtual dyno (for what it's worth / no SAE correction) and came up with some decent peak HP gains it looks like.

Interesting that from ~4300 to ~5000rpm both modded options show a noticeable decline from stock. Is this related to the electronics in the harness, and could it be modified in that range?
I'm not very clear on how the harness works or what can be adjusted...

[bhvrdr]

Ran these logs through a virtual dyno (for what it's worth / no SAE correction / made a few assumptions) and came up with some decent peak HP gains it looks like.

I really appreciate that!

[Loe]

Mike do you recall the air density of each run?

Also, you may want to ask Uni if they will extend the redline with the TB, peak power is closer to 7,4xx rpm with my 80mm unit according to my logs/virtual dyno.

[bhvrdr]

Mike do you recall the air density of each run?

Also, you may want to ask Uni if they will extend the redline with the TB, peak power is closer to 7,4xx rpm with my 80mm unit according to my logs/virtual dyno.

Good question. I live a few miles from PBIR so based on dragtimes data rough estimates are:

STock run: +553 feet - 4:53pm

Modified Runs: +439 feet - 6:53pm


It doesnt seem like much but the only reason I mention it was that during the stock run the sun was still out and modified runs it was dark out and it seems stupid but I feel it makes a slight difference on our cooling... slight.

Mike

[Dippy]

Great info. I think its clear that there's a decent gain above 5000rpm, but those graphs hint at a slight loss between 4500 and 5000rpm?

[FastAudiS4]

bhvrdr, what is the model number of the throttle body?

[bhvrdr]

bhvrdr, what is the model number of the throttle body?

99760511501 for 74mm throttle body

99760511601 for 82mm throttle body

[FastAudiS4]

Thanks!

[bhvrdr]

Updating that so far zero codes or driveability issues with unitronic stage 3 file.

Mike

[Phil.Lmbrt]

99760511501 for 74mm throttle body

99760511601 for 82mm throttle body

Will the adapter harness work with a 82mm TB?

I wonder what the gain would be vs a 74mm

[bhvrdr]

Will the adapter harness work with a 82mm TB?

I wonder what the gain would be vs a 74mm

Supposedly it will. I dont know but when i do the ported sc ill test both

[evil35r]

Whose you going with? Evan or Matt

[bhvrdr]

Whose you going with? Evan or Matt

Matt

[Bartlett]

Updating that so far zero codes or driveability issues with unitronic stage 3 file.

Mike

Hmm, no codes at all?

[vpls4]

Updating that so far zero codes or driveability issues with unitronic stage 3 file.

Mike

I think most folks are getting the codes on higher octane fuel/files.

Were you running pump gas or higher e or race fuel?

[bhvrdr]

I think most folks are getting the codes on higher octane fuel/files.

Were you running pump gas or higher e or race fuel?

I only use 93 octane. Sometimes octane booster. Currently just testing 93 octane. I can peak around 22 degrees timing.

In a couple weeks ill do the 27 degree file with octane booster.

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[JACKAL]

As I mentioned I installed my 75mm throttle body the other night and was mildly pleased. It wasn't quite as noticeable as I expected but the car hadn't had any time to adapt and I also didn't do any WOT pulls. Today I decided to open it up and see if there was much WOT improvement. It seems there was.... (and yes, these runs were all performed on the same stretch of road and I did account for atmospheric conditions):
Comparison.jpg

[BlueSteW8]

It would have been interesting to see the test done with the stock 70mm TB and the APR open intake.

[bhvrdr]

It would have been interesting to see the test done with the stock 70mm TB and the APR open intake.

You're right. I screwed up on that one. I was thinking the same. its possible the stock accordion tube was reducing performance

[k186]

As I mentioned I installed my 75mm throttle body the other night and was mildly pleased. It wasn't quite as noticeable as I expected but the car hadn't had any time to adapt and I also didn't do any WOT pulls. Today I decided to open it up and see if there was much WOT improvement. It seems there was.... (and yes, these runs were all performed on the same stretch of road and I did account for atmospheric conditions):
Comparison.jpg

So you're seeing ~28 peak HP gain from just the TB? That's impressive. I'm not sure what's going on with the increase in torque, though. That's like 75 ft/lbs!

[Morritse]

As I mentioned I installed my 75mm throttle body the other night and was mildly pleased. It wasn't quite as noticeable as I expected but the car hadn't had any time to adapt and I also didn't do any WOT pulls. Today I decided to open it up and see if there was much WOT improvement. It seems there was.... (and yes, these runs were all performed on the same stretch of road and I did account for atmospheric conditions):
Comparison.jpg

How could you be seeing any gains if you're already up against your boost request?

[BlueSteW8]

Other people seem to lose a little torque, both on Issam and UC TBs.
28 hp gain sounds high as well, other folks getting half of that?

[bhvrdr]

How could you be seeing any gains if you're already up against your boost request?

Hes using chipwerke to get more headroom. But yeah something is off on the runs

[JACKAL]

So you're seeing ~28 peak HP gain from just the TB? That's impressive. I'm not sure what's going on with the increase in torque, though. That's like 75 ft/lbs!

Yeah that reported torque surprised me quite a bit. I think VD tends to be a bit optimistic but nonetheless I think that there are some gains to be had.

[JACKAL]

How could you be seeing any gains if you're already up against your boost request?

Chipwerke. Don’t trust the boost number.


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[JACKAL]

Other people seem to lose a little torque, both on Issam and UC TBs.
28 hp gain sounds high as well, other folks getting half of that?

Not sure. Ported blower may have some impact?

[bhvrdr]

Not bad for putting arpund town on pump gas with minimal mods

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[Morritse]

Not bad for putting arpund town on pump gas with minimal mods

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Time to update your flair ;)

That's impressive though, 11.3 immediately on a track with an improved 60ft.

[evil35r]

Nice run!! Fwiw I ran a 7.39 @ 97 1/8th but with a 1.75 60’ cold roads and full pressure In tires spinning haha.

[bhvrdr]

Nice run!! Fwiw I ran a 7.39 @ 97 1/8th but with a 1.75 60’ cold roads and full pressure In tires spinning haha.

Very nice! Im looking forward to a matty port and maybe 82mm tb testing.

[evil35r]

Nice!! Yea mine I’ll
Finish installing this week hope to be testing and logging by next weekend.

[Silver_Bullet]

Nice testing here. Your car seems dialed in so it lends credence to your results.

Any thoughts on the divergence with APR's Ultra claims? On the 93 tune they claim 28 WHP. Even the 034 Inlet Hose by itself 034 tested at 9 HP peak gain on a stage 1 tune years ago (maybe over-stated here also). You're at 14 HP for a different inlet hose and TB.

Potential thoughts:

1) APR is full of it.
2) APR tested Catless, maybe your exhaust is too restrictive to see full gains. It's like squeezing a balloon - you fix a restriction up front and then the next biggest restriction constrains you.
3) APR stepped up the aggression profile on their TB tune knowing that you should be Catless. Less constraints on exit temps if you are not trying to save the Cats.

Just curious what you guys think. I expected the new TB to show more gains based on APR's claims, but I hear that some have also been disappointed by their Ultra experience.