2014 audi a4 timing chain failure

[austindgarner]

I took my car in to my trusted euro shop for an oil leak coming from what appeared to be the oil pan gasket. They said the oil was coming from my plug, which is not a big deal, but concerning because that's not what I saw. I had them do an oil change while they were there and they said they found metal shavings in my oil and checked the timing chain and tensioner. They said the chain is stretched and the tensioner is on the last notch and the timing chain and tensioner need replaced. They said it would be 2000. WTH. I have 70000 miles on this car and I thought I escaped the timing chain failure with a B8. 5!


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[shellraider]

In the 2012-2015ish years, hard to say when it happened, they used updated tensioners but not updated chains. It was a solution to part of the problem.
It solved the issue in many cases but didn't fix all. Sorry to hear you are having problems with it. Best to do it before anything goes catastrophic. My local shop has seen several in the "good" year ranges come in with the same issue.

[Theiceman]

yup .. go see my 8.5 refreshed thread (2014). One of the latest pics is of my stretched chain, it too was on the last notch on the tensioner. The infamous issue is tensioner failure. Your tensioner did not fail and hung in there till the last notch. Consider yourself very very lucky.
What you have there is a worn out chain ( and likely engine. ) I was surprised how worn out my engine was for 4 years and 200k km. i would suggest all chains, rails main sprocket and likely new cover as the chain is hitting it causing the shavings.
they may not be able to do oil pump chain but that's not a big deal anyway.

[Quattro420]

yup .. go see my 8.5 refreshed thread (2014). One of the latest pics is of my stretched chain, it too was on the last notch on the tensioner. The infamous issue is tensioner failure. Your tensioner did not fail and hung in there till the last notch. Consider yourself very very lucky.
What you have there is a worn out chain ( and likely engine. ) I was surprised how worn out my engine was for 4 years and 200k km. i would suggest all chains, rails main sprocket and likely new cover as the chain is hitting it causing the shavings.
they may not be able to do oil pump chain but that's not a big deal anyway.

I’d do balance shafts as well

[audrobotic]

I took my car in to my trusted euro shop for an oil leak coming from what appeared to be the oil pan gasket. They said the oil was coming from my plug, which is not a big deal, but concerning because that's not what I saw. I had them do an oil change while they were there and they said they found metal shavings in my oil and checked the timing chain and tensioner. They said the chain is stretched and the tensioner is on the last notch and the timing chain and tensioner need replaced. They said it would be 2000. WTH. I have 70000 miles on this car and I thought I escaped the timing chain failure with a B8. 5!

That sucks. What’s the oil change history? Did you own it since new?

[austindgarner]

That sucks. What’s the oil change history? Did you own it since new?

Ive had it for 3 years doing the oil every 5000 miles. Carfax shows the original owner to doing every 10000 miles.

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[austindgarner]

I’d do balance shafts as well

Why do these need to get the balance shafts replaced to? That's the first time hearing about balance shafts ever being an issue.

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[Kolbenringe]

Do we have anecdotal or other evidence of the updated chain lasting longer?

I changed my timing chains a few weeks ago, got the updated variant (thank goodness), but I've seen kits still including the older design, which is definitely more robust than those cheap single-row chains we see even on very expensive engines. My old one was about 2mm stretched at 46k miles, guides were "pristine" and oil changes well around 6-8,000 miles. The oil-style tensioner was in ok shape, too, but changed everything I could anyhow with all updated parts.

[mtroxel]

I am not aware that a stretched chain = metal shaving in the oil pan. I would not do a chain and tensioner with any confidence that I've solved all the problems there. Balance shafts? Maybe. But I would not spend money and time on a guess.

[Quattro420]

Why do these need to get the balance shafts replaced to? That's the first time hearing about balance shafts ever being an issue.

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Most people have hard time diagnosing balance shaft issues that’s why you don’t hear very much about them.

[Kolbenringe]

I am not aware that a stretched chain = metal shaving in the oil pan. I would not do a chain and tensioner with any confidence that I've solved all the problems there. Balance shafts? Maybe. But I would not spend money and time on a guess.

The metal shavings often come from the chain slapping against the timing cover and are used as a tell-tale sign to check how far out the tensioner is and then to recommend a replacement.

[austindgarner]

I am not aware that a stretched chain = metal shaving in the oil pan. I would not do a chain and tensioner with any confidence that I've solved all the problems there. Balance shafts? Maybe. But I would not spend money and time on a guess.

I talked to my mechanic today and he said the oil just had a metallic look to it, but no actual shavings. He did say that the chain was stretched and eating away at the timing cover.

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[Theiceman]

Yeah chain hits windage trays. If he changes the cover due to bending. Ask for the old one back. If chain was hitting cover it will be obvious


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[Theiceman]

If you see nothing. Id be concerned about balance shafts.


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[Kolbenringe]

Yeah chain hits windage trays. If he changes the cover due to bending. Ask for the old one back. If chain was hitting cover it will be obvious


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The windage tray is under the crankshaft, in line with the upper and lowe| oil pans, not inline with the timing set (ETKA will show the detailed location). The chains DO NOT contact them. There are tabs on the inside of the timing cover that direct oil flow to moving parts and the eventual return. Those are whst the chain hits, liberwting metal shards into the oil. This is why one should not use the cheap refurbs or Chinese covers that don't have them. These are critical to keep the oil off the inside of the cover and on the moving parts (balance shaft drive and the pass-through into the crankcase).

This thread actually shows the points of contact between the chain and the cover when the former stretches too much. The chains don't in any way touch the windage tray over the oil pan, which is under the crankshaft.
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-and-front-end

[Theiceman]

Probably got the term wrong but its a piece that is right by the chain on the cover. It looks like it is to catch oil and keep the chain oiled. But the terms aren’t important.


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[Kolbenringe]

Probably got the term wrong but its a piece that is right by the chain on the cover. It looks like it is to catch oil and keep the chain oiled. But the terms aren’t important.


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Terms are very important in communicating technical information. Especially when confusion can lead to expensive mistakes for those we are trying to help. Good thing this very forum has references, like the thread I linked with photos.

[Theiceman]

Terms are very important in communicating technical information. Especially when confusion can lead to expensive mistakes for those we are trying to help. Good thing this very forum has references, like the thread I linked with photos.

Blah blah blah You are so awesome how do you stand yourself ?


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[Theiceman]

Terms are very important in communicating technical information. Especially when confusion can lead to expensive mistakes for those we are trying to help. Good thing this very forum has references, like the thread I linked with photos.

Try this term. You are a wanker !


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[audrobotic]

Terms are very important in communicating technical information. Especially when confusion can lead to expensive mistakes for those we are trying to help. Good thing this very forum has references, like the thread I linked with photos.

Seriously? You’re copping an attitude? Come on.

[old guy]

Here's the damage being discussed. Now let's move on.....

[Theiceman]

Yup that's the piece old guy, a pic is worth a thousand words. But to add to this , I think Quatro420 has brought a great issue to life not often discussed. Those balance shafts. If I had metal but that cover looked okay that would definitely be where I would go next.
For information purposes I also have a 2014, I was on the very last detent of the tensioner and I had phase adaption of over 8 degrees. My cover was PEFECTLTY INTACT. If I had metal in my oil this would be concerning and would investigate the balance shafts. In fact we are awaiting an outcome of another investigation in a sister thread.
Just because you see metal don't assume its hitting the cover.

That balance shaft R and R is looking to be a bit of a bear so I'm watching that thread loosely.

[austindgarner]

I got my car back today and realized how much I love my car and how good it is to have her back! Timing chain done, water pump done, and carbon cleaning. I never felt this car run this good in 3 years of ownership! Now hopefully I don't need anything done for a while. That bill was 2800! I

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[Theiceman]

Does it have smoother idle than before ?


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[Theiceman]

Thats good money.


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[Zach L]

Glad this worked out for you, OP. Catastrophy avoided.

Terms are very important in communicating technical information. Especially when confusion can lead to expensive mistakes for those we are trying to help. Good thing this very forum has references, like the thread I linked with photos.

Agree.

[austome]

so after a half a day of driving, the check engine light came on. WTH! Checked the code and it was a p2187 - system too lean at idle bank 1. I drove it home and popped the hood and it looks like there is oil all over the front of the car right by the new timing cover. Could this be that the gasket wasn't put in properly or the timing cover wasn't on right? I am so irritated at this point! Is it safe to drive to the shop or do I need to get it towed in? I don't want to do any damage to the car by running it. I also do not need to be putting more money into this. I just paid 2700 for god sakes and the car only has 70000 miles.

[mtroxel]

Is it safe to drive to the shop or do I need to get it towed in?

I don't think we know your story...at least not in this thread. Did you have some shop do a timing chain+tensioner on your car? If so, obviously they screwed up royally. Did they forget to put sealant on the cover? At any rate, the oil hemorrhage and the lean code are the same thing. Oil running out and air leaking in.

If you had a shop work on this, I'd call them and let them decide how to get it back. And if they tell you to drive it back, I'd document that in an email.

[if6ws9]

I took my car in to my trusted euro shop for an oil leak coming from what appeared to be the oil pan gasket. They said the oil was coming from my plug, which is not a big deal, but concerning because that's not what I saw. I had them do an oil change while they were there and they said they found metal shavings in my oil and checked the timing chain and tensioner. They said the chain is stretched and the tensioner is on the last notch and the timing chain and tensioner need replaced. They said it would be 2000. WTH. I have 70000 miles on this car and I thought I escaped the timing chain failure with a B8. 5!


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I've got a 2014 B8.5 A5 with 50k miles, so far no problems but I've got a lot invested in mods and I'm concerned about that problem.

[Kolbenringe]

so after a half a day of driving, the check engine light came on. WTH! Checked the code and it was a p2187 - system too lean at idle bank 1. I drove it home and popped the hood and it looks like there is oil all over the front of the car right by the new timing cover. Could this be that the gasket wasn't put in properly or the timing cover wasn't on right? I am so irritated at this point! Is it safe to drive to the shop or do I need to get it towed in? I don't want to do any damage to the car by running it. I also do not need to be putting more money into this. I just paid 2700 for god sakes and the car only has 70000 miles.

I wouldn't due to the mess and the fact that the shop messed up and should make good on it, including towing. It's vwry difficult to tell online whst it is, but ket the shop handle it. Or if you want to diagnose it, wash it and then spray on this leak detector stuff that basically batters the engine in a white substance so you can telk where the leak is coming from.

[Theiceman]

I've got a 2014 B8.5 A5 with 50k miles, so far no problems but I've got a lot invested in mods and I'm concerned about that problem.

at 50k nothing to worry about, but if you are concerned get the phase adaption checked with vcds, it will tell you roughly how much it is stretched. 0 good 8 about to explode.. you should be somewhere in between on a warm engine. .

[clettngx]

Does anyone know what year the updated tensioner was put in to a4s?

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[old guy]

Does anyone know what year the updated tensioner was put in to a4s?

2013 and possibly some very late model 2012's.

[Smac770]

Being an 06K part, it was part of the new parts bin for the Gen3 engine which went into the B8.5 starting in 2012. 06H...N was used in the transverse A3/TT (why it was an 06H part instead of 06J, who knows; Audi can't be bothered to follow structure). 06H...T was used in the longitudinal A4/A5/Q5/A6. T got replaced by AB, but almost at the same time AB got replaced by 06K...K. (N just got replaced directly by 06K...K).

So 2011 build date, you almost certainly have the old design. 2013 build date, you should have the new design. 2012 build date, check. Because it's Audi, anything is possible.

[dalmation53]

So this is the updated chain?

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-febi-par...k109158ad~feb/

Oh also I'm about to buy my timing components as well is the bremmen Tensioner any good?

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-bremmen-...6k109467k~brp/

[old guy]

Yes that is the updated chain.

My opinion, for what it's worth, would be to purchase an OEM tensioner. Is it really worth saving a few $$ on the tensioner when you are going to go through all that effort to update you timing components?

[dalmation53]

Yes that is the updated chain.

My opinion, for what it's worth, would be to purchase an OEM tensioner. Is it really worth saving a few $$ on the tensioner when you are going to go through all that effort to update you timing components?

I just realized i put the non updated chain on my dads b8.5. Europaparts is selling the kit with the non updated chain. I guess it will be ok right?

[old guy]

I just realized i put the non updated chain on my dads b8.5. Europaparts is selling the kit with the non updated chain. I guess it will be ok right?

As long as you installed an updated tensioner you should be fine.

[Theiceman]

As long as you installed an updated tensioner you should be fine.

yeah i had the old chain stretched to crap after 130K (on a new style tensioner) and it was fine ... ( pic earlier in the thread )

[Benji16]

welcome to club