Intake flap delete

[ginch]

So everyone is talking about deleting the intake flap due to possible bolts coming loose and falling into the combustion chamber. Forgive my ignorance but is this the port separators that get removed when you install the thicker manifold gasket? Does anyone have any pics of these intake flaps?

Thanks in advance!

Derek

[Sharinganuser]

Following!

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[OscarMeyer]

It's the actual flap in the intake manifold, the seperators are installed in the heads, if you have the intake manifold spacers those get removed anyways.

You can see the tips of the flaps in this manifold picture.

https://store.034motorsport.com/blog...-034-108-z005/

Has a good breakdown of removal for the metal linkage arms, you can see one of the flaps removed and were the two screws that hold it to the linkage arm would be placed.

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[ginch]

Thanks man! That seems like quite the procedure. Realistically, how much of an issue are the factory flaps. I hear horror stories about the screws holding the flaps in place letting go and ruining the engine however what really is the fail rate on these? Cant imagine that many people remove these!

[S42RS4]

Thanks man! That seems like quite the procedure. Realistically, how much of an issue are the factory flaps. I hear horror stories about the screws holding the flaps in place letting go and ruining the engine however what really is the fail rate on these? Cant imagine that many people remove these!

To me it is a big issue, I had one of the screws fell, and damage cylinder and piston #4. 8K later Audi found a used engine and I was back on the road. During my second carbon cleaning the second screw was hanging on for dear life so I just removed all the damn screws; so unless you have 6k plus saved, remove the damn screws and save the headache, I don't want another enthusiast be on this particular path dealing with this.

[OscarMeyer]

Thanks man! That seems like quite the procedure. Realistically, how much of an issue are the factory flaps. I hear horror stories about the screws holding the flaps in place letting go and ruining the engine however what really is the fail rate on these? Cant imagine that many people remove these!

Yeah lots of steps involved, but I feel it's worth it. Been around long enough to see posts on here, and UK/Euro forums that owners have had issue somewhere around 8 - 9 cars? That I can just think of off the top of my head. One owner posted about his friends car, where the flap psychically broke and fell into the combustion chamber.

I don't like the idea of anything in the path to the combustion chamber for that reason. Stuff just happens, metal gets brittle, screws due funky things when they see a motor spinning at 8500rpm all day long. I'll take the rougher idle on cold and maybe alittle driving hiccup here and there to remedy it (most owners do say thay they have deflap'd and can't tell the difference.)

For me it's piece of mind, even though I check mine everytime I do a carbon clean, and still currently have them in place, but next carbon clean and they are gone.

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[ven0m]

Lemme show you the horror story and you can also see how the flappers come attached t the actuator arm.

[flavormonkey]

Isn’t it advisable to get a tune after removing the flaps?


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[Krys-RS4]

Is there any risk or possible later problems associated with doing the flap delete?

[jonan]

Is there any risk or possible later problems associated with doing the flap delete?

pros: no flaps or screws that can destroy your motor

cons: potential for rough idle during cold startups

pros outweigh cons...

[MugelloB7RS4]

pros: no flaps or screws that can destroy your motor

cons: potential for rough idle during cold startups

pros outweigh cons...

I live in Canada. I have the flaps removed and have noticed no issues in cold starts. Just sayin.. I totally agree with jonan, the pros for me far outweighed the cons.

[ginch]

I live in Canada. I have the flaps removed and have noticed no issues in cold starts. Just sayin.. I totally agree with jonan, the pros for me far outweighed the cons.

Do you also have a tune to negate the flaps?

[WerkzRS]

Thinking of doing this as well !!!


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[MugelloB7RS4]

Do you also have a tune to negate the flaps?

No, I left all the linkages and actuators in place so that I don't have any dash lights and everything works well. My plan is in the not too distant future to get a tune, at which time I will have them turn off the codes for the flaps just so that I don't run into any issues down the road. Those little actuators are like $400 a piece CAD so if I break one, then it won't be so bad because the codes will be turned off anyway.

[ginch]

No, I left all the linkages and actuators in place so that I don't have any dash lights and everything works well. My plan is in the not too distant future to get a tune, at which time I will have them turn off the codes for the flaps just so that I don't run into any issues down the road. Those little actuators are like $400 a piece CAD so if I break one, then it won't be so bad because the codes will be turned off anyway.

Thanks for the reply. Whats a ballpark dollar figure to have the flaps removed?

[jonan]

No, I left all the linkages and actuators in place so that I don't have any dash lights and everything works well. My plan is in the not too distant future to get a tune, at which time I will have them turn off the codes for the flaps just so that I don't run into any issues down the road. Those little actuators are like $400 a piece CAD so if I break one, then it won't be so bad because the codes will be turned off anyway.

this...i ran deflapped with stock tune for a few weeks before i tried APRs demo tune and finally settled with the UM tune...

[GettU1]

I'm actually in the process of doing this right now, I removing the intake flaps along with the separators in the cylinder heads. My buddy who owned a RS4 before me did this and car responded amazing to the fee flow of air compared to having objects obstructing flow. What I'm trying to figure out is if i can removed the actuators if I can get the my tune updated from jhm because i'm also removing my Secondary air injection as well.

[RAudi Driver]

I don't think there is a performance increase by removing those parts. I think it only serves as a preventative measure for a catastrophic engine failure.

[Chandler]

For those of you who removed the intake manifold flaps - did you remove the port separators as well? I know everyone who used the JHM spacers removed the port separators. But for those who have no spacers....

[Chandler]

For those of you who removed the intake manifold flaps - did you remove the port separators as well? I know everyone who used the JHM spacers removed the port separators. But for those who have no spacers....

FYI - I am opting to keep the port separators since I am no adding the JHM spacers or a tune during my intake flap delete. I will comment with another update after I re-assembly everything!

[outsider6661]

Logically if you are removing the tumblers from the manifold then there's no need to keep the port separators in. But if you're intent on keeping them in then go for it!

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[ginch]

Any of you guys just use loctite on the manifold bolts to ensure they don't back out?

[MugelloB7RS4]

Any of you guys just use loctite on the manifold bolts to ensure they don't back out?

I've heard it done and seems like a decent alternative. I think that would help the screws from backing out. I've also seen the flaps themselves break. Now often the piece that breaks is too large to fit in the intake port so it doesn't get consumed, but its plausible that it could be a small piece. I also don't know if when the flap itself snaps, if its a function of loose screws and the flaps moving and getting fatigued.

Either way, loctite would be a great option. Much better than doing nothing, just be aware that the flaps themselves have also been known to break.

[Rilla]

Do we know why the flaps themselves fail? Is it a brittle fatigue fracture from cycling or are they getting stuck in the carbon then sheared by the torque of the shaft?

[rimoore]

That's kinda what I did. Instead I used a fine brush and put jb weld around bolt heads. I have a feeling that the failures could be caused by damage done during carbon cleaning. I wouldn't media blast in the intake manifold ports and instead do them by hand.

- - - Updated - - -

Do we know why the flaps themselves fail? Is it a brittle fatigue fracture from cycling or are they getting stuck in the carbon then sheared by the torque of the shaft?

Or damaged during carbon clean.

[curbdawg]

FYI - I am opting to keep the port separators since I am no adding the JHM spacers or a tune during my intake flap delete. I will comment with another update after I re-assembly everything!

There’s no longer a point to having the port separators if you remove the flaps.


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[KNN]

Hey gurus, can you guide me here. I am about to replace my oil coolers. While my mech is at work, I plan to do the flap delete. I am in a country where temperatures are always above 20'c at night and 30'c plus up to 40'c plus in daytime.

1. Do I just remove the flap and leave the actuating arm with the sensors so that I dont get a fault code?

2. Will it hurt to keep the port separators?

3. Do I change the actuator arm from plastic to billet sets?

4. Do I need to change to JHM intake spacers or put back how it was?

5. Do I need to buy any parts from 034 or JHM to complete this flap delete?

6. Do I have to tune if I am just removing the flaps?

7. What other mods or preventive maintenance can be carried out while I am replacing the oil cooler and doing a carb clean?

8. Has anyone tried walnut blasting technique to clean the carbons?

9. Has anyone closed their heater supply for heating during winter, which is not required for hot climate countries?

10. Has anyone tried Forge Motorsports Engine Oil Cooler kit?


Sorry for a list of questions, but need guidance here. Thank you in advance!

[curbdawg]

Walnut blast seems to be the best method over chemicals or combine the 2.

Remove flaps but you have to leave arms and linkage. If you remove arms and linkage you’ll have holes in your intake manifold.

You don’t need billet arms however when I did mine my arms were so brittle they broke by me just moving them by hand so I ended up putting billets in anyway.

If arms are in place you do not need a tune to delete.

If you de-flap the port separators become pointless.

Most everybody does intake spacers from JHM. If you do spacers you need 2 sets of intake gaskets.


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[MugelloB7RS4]

Hey gurus, can you guide me here. I am about to replace my oil coolers. While my mech is at work, I plan to do the flap delete. I am in a country where temperatures are always above 20'c at night and 30'c plus up to 40'c plus in daytime.

1. Do I just remove the flap and leave the actuating arm with the sensors so that I dont get a fault code?

2. Will it hurt to keep the port separators?

3. Do I change the actuator arm from plastic to billet sets?

4. Do I need to change to JHM intake spacers or put back how it was?

5. Do I need to buy any parts from 034 or JHM to complete this flap delete?

6. Do I have to tune if I am just removing the flaps?

7. What other mods or preventive maintenance can be carried out while I am replacing the oil cooler and doing a carb clean?

8. Has anyone tried walnut blasting technique to clean the carbons?

9. Has anyone closed their heater supply for heating during winter, which is not required for hot climate countries?

10. Has anyone tried Forge Motorsports Engine Oil Cooler kit?


Sorry for a list of questions, but need guidance here. Thank you in advance!

1. Yes if you don't want check engine lights or having to tune out those codes. Many guys have done it this way without issues

2. It won't hurt, but without the flaps they're of no use. They will just sit there and continue to collect carbon without adding any benefit.

3. You can, but you don't have to. The reason people change is because the plastic one is brittle and can break. If yours are in tact they will be fine. Keep in mind the more the intake comes on and off the more chance they can get damaged.

4. You don't need intake spacers at all. Many people do them because they are already in there doing effectively the job, so it doesn't add any labour, just the cost of the part.

5. Nope

6. Nope

7. That's a tough one. It all depends on the car. I have done some oil filter housing seals because mine were leaking. Also injectors are a big one to consider when the manifold is off. Anything that would require you do double up on labour should be considered.

8. Yes, the walnut blasting is probably the most effective way to clean the carbon

9. I'm not sure.

10. I believe a few guys have with pretty good success.

[MadMaxD]

Funny enough, I currently have mine apart and am trying to decide between completely deleting them or loctiting the screws. Whoever did the last carbon cleaning did loctite them, however I just cannot decide. I think I'm going to loctite the screws and call it a day. There were no loose screws so it definitely held, and pulling the flaps to soak/clean them and clean the manifold was way easier than trying to get in there with the flaps in place. They're there for low end torque, which if your car has heavy carbon buildup, cleaning and removing your probably won't miss it.

As for walnut blasting, that's what I used for the carbon cleaning. The method that worked best for me was to soak the port in carbon cleaner, let it soak, do an initial scrape by hand, vacuum out what I could, THEN walnut blast. Came out great.

[Rilla]

Funny enough, I currently have mine apart and am trying to decide between completely deleting them or loctiting the screws. Whoever did the last carbon cleaning did loctite them, however I just cannot decide. I think I'm going to loctite the screws and call it a day. There were no loose screws so it definitely held, and pulling the flaps to soak/clean them and clean the manifold was way easier than trying to get in there with the flaps in place. They're there for low end torque, which if your car has heavy carbon buildup, cleaning and removing your probably won't miss it.

Peak torque - or part throttle torque - and thereby efficiency? The service training technical document says that they are activated at low load and low rpm. So I would think it you mash the gas at low rpm that they would open up anyway to produce the same peak torque. Anyone know of a VDCS variable to log the flap position?

[ven0m]

Peak torque - or part throttle torque - and thereby efficiency? The service training technical document says that they are activated at low load and low rpm. So I would think it you mash the gas at low rpm that they would open up anyway to produce the same peak torque. Anyone know of a VDCS variable to log the flap position?

Would be an interesting thing to verify. I'm also curious!

[KNN]

Walnut blast seems to be the best method over chemicals or combine the 2.

Remove flaps but you have to leave arms and linkage. If you remove arms and linkage you’ll have holes in your intake manifold.

You don’t need billet arms however when I did mine my arms were so brittle they broke by me just moving them by hand so I ended up putting billets in anyway.

If arms are in place you do not need a tune to delete.

If you de-flap the port separators become pointless.

Most everybody does intake spacers from JHM. If you do spacers you need 2 sets of intake gaskets.


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Thank you for your input Curbdawg, appreciate it.

[KNN]

1. Yes if you don't want check engine lights or having to tune out those codes. Many guys have done it this way without issues

2. It won't hurt, but without the flaps they're of no use. They will just sit there and continue to collect carbon without adding any benefit.

3. You can, but you don't have to. The reason people change is because the plastic one is brittle and can break. If yours are in tact they will be fine. Keep in mind the more the intake comes on and off the more chance they can get damaged.

4. You don't need intake spacers at all. Many people do them because they are already in there doing effectively the job, so it doesn't add any labour, just the cost of the part.

5. Nope

6. Nope

7. That's a tough one. It all depends on the car. I have done some oil filter housing seals because mine were leaking. Also injectors are a big one to consider when the manifold is off. Anything that would require you do double up on labour should be considered.

8. Yes, the walnut blasting is probably the most effective way to clean the carbon

9. I'm not sure.

10. I believe a few guys have with pretty good success.

Thank you for the detail answers MugelloB7RS4. I am taking notes from you and Curbdawg. :)

[kenyakirk]

I picked up a 2006 RS4 last week and took it straight to the garage. Turns out one of the flaps had broken in half. Will post a pic if I can work out how. Considering the flap delete. How is it actually done? Are the flaps just removed from the rails, or do they have to be cut off?

[curbdawg]

I picked up a 2006 RS4 last week and took it straight to the garage. Turns out one of the flaps had broken in half. Will post a pic if I can work out how. Considering the flap delete. How is it actually done? Are the flaps just removed from the rails, or do they have to be cut off?

Each flap has two screws that you remove to take flap out


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[Kenny147]

I’ve seen the pictures of failed flaps due to cracks starting at the screw holes. It’s been more than a few years since I studied stress fractures and metal fatigue but I have a sneaking suspicion that the cracks and subsequent failure of the flaps with chunks coming off, is due to people over tightening the screws in an effort to stop them coming out.

Do we know of anyone that had a screw back out or a flap failing, without any carbon clean being done beforehand?

[MugelloB7RS4]

I’ve seen the pictures of failed flaps due to cracks starting at the screw holes. It’s been more than a few years since I studied stress fractures and metal fatigue but I have a sneaking suspicion that the cracks and subsequent failure of the flaps with chunks coming off, is due to people over tightening the screws in an effort to stop them coming out.

Do we know of anyone that had a screw back out or a flap failing, without any carbon clean being done beforehand?

I recall a car that had part of the flap break off and be consumed in the cylinder. I know that car did have a carbon clean (we did it) but we hadn't touched the screws. The car had less than 100K kms (60k Mi) and still had the failure, so I'm not sure if the screw tightening would apply in that case. It was also a piece at the tip of the flap and not near the screws. The only thing I could think of is carbon build up causing some stickiness, just enough to weaken the metal and after thousands of cycles it fails.

[kenyakirk]

Picture of the broken flap that was removed. IMG-20200803-WA0001.jpg

[two2]

This thread is a tad old, but has some good info.
after nearly 15 years owning the car, i am considering removing both top and bottom flap, for no reason other than making the CC process easier and to lesson the buildup of carbon on additional parts other than the valves.

this is actually the first time I've ever heard of screws or flaps taking a trip down into the engine. i suspect theses reports are from second/third (a dozen?) owners that have had previous work done on the car. OR at the very least, have had someone touch the manifold before. if the screws were ever to come off, i think it would of happened very early on when the car was new(er) not some 10+ years later without ever being touched.

looking over the 034 billet linkage manual for removing the caps, what are people using to remove and seat them to the correct depth?

anyone considering removing the flaps, might want to also consider having it port/polished. there's some area in the trumpets that can restrict/disturb the flow of air.. actually was my first mod when CC. maybe 5-6hp in the upper range iirc.