Torque Converter Failure - How common?

[DaPlatypus]

My 2010 Avant seems to be showing the early signs of a torque converter failure at 60,000 miles. Symptoms are similar to that of the B7 failures (Surging RPMs, occasional rough shifts, TC clunks, heavy vibration when coming to a stop as it stays in 3rd gear) . My question is, how common is it for B8's to experience a TC failure? Has anyone here experienced this?

[JD23]

As far as I know, the transmission is one of the more reliable components of the B8, certainly far more so than the engine.

[Spawne32]

I've never heard of one failing before. I have however heard of valve body issues as well as the valve body bridge seal failing on these car's which usually results in a number of transmission codes. Rough 2-1 downshifts are not uncommon on these car's, they have a TSB for it that resulted in a reflash of the TCU, but the problem is audi will not just "do" this without you paying for a diagnostic of the trans, in which case they are just going to tell you it will be $7000 dollars because you need a new transmission.

[JayDog747]

Um, have you changed the transmission fluid yet?

[JD23]

Um, have you changed the transmission fluid yet?

But Audi says it's "lifetime" fluid.

[A4x]

But Audi says it's "lifetime" fluid.

But Audi does not make the transmission.

The manufacturer is ZF and they clearly state to drain and re-fill the fluid every few years, or 80000-100000 km (50000-60000 miles).

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...Lifetime-fluid

To the OP: I would suggest what was said above. Try a fluid drain/re-fill and possibly dropping the pan. Dropping the pan will allow you to inspect for any obviously failed components (shrapnel in the pan).

[JayDog747]

But Audi says it's "lifetime" fluid.

Really. I hadn't heard that one before.

ATF and gear oil should be changed every 50k. OP should do a drain, replace filter, clean magnets and replace fluid. Drive for 1-2k miles and do a drain and refill again.

[DaPlatypus]

Really. I hadn't heard that one before.

ATF and gear oil should be changed every 50k. OP should do a drain, replace filter, clean magnets and replace fluid. Drive for 1-2k miles and do a drain and refill again.

Yes, the first thing I did was have the transmission fluid and filter drained and replaced roughly 5,000 miles ago. It did not make any difference with the symptoms.

I brought the car to Audi of Wallingford CT after the transmission fluid service and of course got an earful about "You shouldn't have done that, the transmission is a sealed unit the fluid is 'lifetime'...ect" They didn't want to hear about ZF's recommendation. They took the car for a day and said that what I was feeling was typical for the ZF6 and I should buy an 8-speed for the smoothness. Right... I later brought the car to XLR8 in CT and they stated they couldn't diagnose it, but it sounds like something typical with B7's. I might drop it back off there so they can play around with the car when its cold.

The hard part is that the transmission acts up randomly. Sometimes it surges and clunks, sometimes it doesn't. Although it usually seems to slip, rev up and clunk into 4th during the first set of shifts in the morning when cold.

[JD23]

But Audi does not make the transmission.

The manufacturer is ZF and they clearly state to drain and re-fill the fluid every few years, or 80000-100000 km (50000-60000 miles).

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...Lifetime-fluid

To the OP: I would suggest what was said above. Try a fluid drain/re-fill and possibly dropping the pan. Dropping the pan will allow you to inspect for any obviously failed components (shrapnel in the pan).

You might want to get your sarcasm detector recalibrated. I obviously don't agree with Audi's recommendations, hence the emoticon, but Audi dealerships will not perform a service on these transmissions and will probably even blame any aberrant transmission behavior on changing the fluid.

[Novarider]

Audi Knoxville will do fluid/filter change but they wanted $1200! Took mine in there for hard shifting and they said the fluid was bad, I later learned about the tsb that exists and they didn't apply it

When they told me it would be $1200 for f/f change I laughed and said no. I did it myself for a little under $400 with genuine ZF fluid and filter. It took a couple hours in my driveway but definitely not $800 worth of labor, especially if I had a lift.

[DaPlatypus]

Audi Knoxville will do fluid/filter change but they wanted $1200! Took mine in there for hard shifting and they said the fluid was bad, I later learned about the tsb that exists and they didn't apply it

When they told me it would be $1200 for f/f change I laughed and said no. I did it myself for a little under $400 with genuine ZF fluid and filter. It took a couple hours in my driveway but definitely not $800 worth of labor, especially if I had a lift.

Dealer said there was a TSB they could address as well, although I passed at the time since they told me it would take 4 hours... Considering going back to solve the rough downshift and vibration.

[JayDog747]

Have you ruled out rear diff, trans, and motor mounts? CV axles?

[DaPlatypus]

Have you ruled out rear diff, trans, and motor mounts? CV axles?

Haven't ruled them out. Although had the car inspected and only issues they found were forward upper/lower Control Arm bushings worn out and a leaky CV boot. Its a pretty reputable shop, I would assume they would have mentioned the above if they were worn / failed.

They also noted that my brake booster has a vacuum leak. They stated it might be playing a role with the trans symptoms, as it uses engine vacuum to operate. Is this true?

[JayDog747]

I have long suspected that a vacuum leak was the cause of the rpm surging. So it wouldn't surprise me. It wasn't a pressing issue, so I never got around to confirming it.

However, the vibration and clunking you're experiencing can be contributed to your leaky CV axle. And to a lesser extent, control arms and sway bar links. Your car is 8 years old, 60k+ miles. It's not uncommon for suspension parts needing to be replaced.

If the shop you are using said the CV was leaking and did nothing about it, I would question how reputable it actually is. Remember, NEVER "assume"

[DaPlatypus]

I have long suspected that a vacuum leak was the cause of the rpm surging. So it wouldn't surprise me. It wasn't a pressing issue, so I never got around to confirming it.

However, the vibration and clunking you're experiencing can be contributed to your leaky CV axle. And to a lesser extent, control arms and sway bar links. Your car is 8 years old, 60k+ miles. It's not uncommon for suspension parts needing to be replaced.

If the shop you are using said the CV was leaking and did nothing about it, I would question how reputable it actually is. Remember, NEVER "assume"

Everything your saying valid. The issue I am having does not seem to be from a leaky CV though, but please correct me if I am wrong. The transmission vibration when coming to a stop is the transmission hanging in 3rd gear, and once stopped, you can feel it finally shift into 1st and all is smooth. It feels like the car is on the verge of stalling until it shifts into 1st. Yes some of the general clunking could definitely be CV related or a worn axle, I wont argue that. I agree with your point on the vacuum leak. Sometimes during the surging I can hear a whistle from the turbo side of the engine almost "fluttering" on and off, with each surge. So something is definitely leaking, yet not enough to throw out any codes. It might be a combination of the brake booster (constant hiss) and something else. If it was the waste gate being loose, I would assume i would hear it fluttering during throttle release.

Also - The shop is quite reputable around here, they simply gave me a diagnostic. What impressed me was on each line item on the diagnostic stating "We found this, this and this", they included pictures of each component from the car which was worn down. That was awesome, every shop needs to do this.

[JayDog747]

Pictures are nice-we're such voyeur creatures. Post 'em up if you get a chance.

The first step would be to take care of that TSB and to track down the hissing noise you hear. It could be something simple as a cracked connector or a hose not properly sealing.

Does the whistling sound go away when the car is warmed up?

[DaPlatypus]

Pictures are nice-we're such voyeur creatures. Post 'em up if you get a chance.

The first step would be to take care of that TSB and to track down the hissing noise you hear. It could be something simple as a cracked connector or a hose not properly sealing.

Does the whistling sound go away when the car is warmed up?

I'll post them up when I'm on my personal computer.

The whistling noise happens cold / hot, although tends to be a bit more 'loud' when cold. Driving up north this weekend for a ski trip, I'll try to bring the car down to Audi next weekend to address the TSB.

[DaPlatypus]

Having trouble uploading photos. I'll keep working on that.

Anyways..

I called the Indi dealer who replaced the transmission fluid. Due to recent hard shifts I wanted to confirm they used the correct ZF fluid and procedure. Turns out, they used Redline D6 GL-4, apparently the "equivalent" to the ZF G060162A2. They said they monitored the temp with VAGCOM and all that. Am I okay driving around with this fluid in the trans? I'd hate to be doing damage to it, considering the car only has 65K miles. Now I'm considering replacing the transmission fluid AGAIN with the proper ZF fluid before I even go to Audi for the TCU update and adaptions.

[Novarider]

I'd be quite upset they used an after-market trans fluid but if you didn't confirm they use ZF fluid before dropping it off it's kinda on you.

Changing the fluid again won't remove the redline fluid since you only remove a fraction of the fluid when changing it.

[DaPlatypus]

Quick update...

Had the after-market transmission fluid drained out, and refilled with proper ZF fluid. Shop drove it around a bit, and re-drained and refilled with ZF.

Car definitely shifts much smoother now, although the surging is still present under light throttle applications and is accompanied with a whistle sound.

I'll try to post a video of the surging once i figure out how to do that. Basically the sensation feels like the torque converter is opening and closing, and there is a whistle from the turbo side which follows this on and off sensation every second or so. Doesn't happen in manual or sport mode.

Did a boost leak test and didn't find any leaks.

Vibration is still present when coming to a stop. Car is definitely hanging onto 3rd and causing the RPMS to drop a bit causing a slight shuddering sensation until it pops out.

I swapped out the left upper control arms and called it a day. ~6 hours to remove the pinch bolt really made the shops quote quite tempting. Going in this Thursday so they can replace the remaining uppers + lowers as I don't have the time to deal with the other pinch bolt.