Immobilizer 3 help!

[Zackattack]

Hello,

I seem to be in a terrible quandary. My 2004 audi A6 2.7t instrument cluster has a short in the circuit somewhere and it is making the LEDs pulse and turn on when they're supposed to be off, making the center LCD screen go crazy and or just turn red and making the odometer LCD displays unreadable. I contacted a couple of the LCD instrument cluster "refurbish" places and they can only repair the screen (which anyone can do). So I bought a new (used) gauge cluster and I want to use it. BUT....Immobilizer! Now I have read 100 threads about this and it seems like it's impossible to do this with the immobilizer 3. You need a PIN which Audi stopped giving out in 2005 and with immobilizer 3 you cant use keys that were previously used for another immobilizer. Does this all sound right? Anyways, what I'm looking for now is an immobilizer defeater or something to trick it into letting me use the new display. Does anyone know if there are options for this? Also, what about the immobilizer in the display, does anyone know what chip it is storing the files in? If I can just swap chips, that will allow me to use the new display is what I am thinking.

Any help is greatly appreciated!!!

Zach

[jbain2]

You need to pull the pin from the old cluster. Once you have that you can change it over on the new cluster to match. You will also need to recode the mileage, etc.

All of this can be done with Vag-Commander. You will also need a non-VCDS cable.


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[Zackattack]

That's an issue because I don't have the pin from the new cluster. I also don't have the pin from the old. Everything I've read has me worried that when I try to pull the pin it will say "no pin available". I'm trying to prepare for worst case scenario and have back up plans. Even the Ross tech site is saying I won't be able to get the pin out of the cluster. The simplest thing would just be to bypass the immobilizer for me. I can open the display and straight up remove the yellow LED, that doesn't concern me. I just really want to stop driving around with a display that I think may catch on fire.

[rollerton]

It's totally possible, and actually pretty easy once you set your mind to figuring out how it's done.
So, yes- you'll need the SKC from your old cluster, which can be retrieved from the ECU also. Getting it from the ECU seems to be more reliable, with Vagcommander.
Here's write-up for that:
https://sites.google.com/site/imnuts/

Getting the SKC from your new cluster can be trickier. usually Vagcommander will spaz out and can't read the cluster very well. Sometimes it does. There's a few other programs; I've used Vag-eprommer. Once you have those pins you just follow the Ross Tech procedure for Immo III matching.

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...ument_Cluster)

If you have a Hex-Can cable that's all you'd need. And I've done it remotely for a couple people who have a HexCan and Teamviewer. BuT at that point you can just do it yourself, since it's just clicking the right stuff. The hard part honestly is getting those hacked chinese programs to work properly.
It sounds like you understand the procedure well enough, from there it's just a matter of somehow getting the programs to work on your particular windows laptop- drivers can really be a hassle, which is why the HexCan cable is so good, it always works.

[jbain2]

I couldn’t get my VCDS cable to play nice with other 3rd party CAN readers. As rollerton mentioned, this is totally possible to do.


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[Zackattack]

What hacked Chinese programs do I need? So what I have is Vag + K commander 1.4 with whatever cheap cable came with it from ebay. I bought this 5 years ago for my then girlfriends 2008 VW passat which required it to re-set the electronic parking brake. The program was all in german which was difficult to decipher but I was able to do it. I installed the program on her laptop, which, at the time was running windows XP. I don't have a laptop myself but was thinking of getting a cheap on for the garage anyways. So I could try to use that with the 5 year old software and cable...or I have a friend who has the actual VAGCOM cable and software from Ross tech and has used it before. But it sounds like the real one won't work? Which one should I go for first? Do I need XP? Also, why do 2/3 of the threads I read say they can't get the pin out of the donor cluster? That's what I'm worried about. It's winter time and this is my winter car. I installed water temp/oil pressure and boost gauges last month so I can monitor those without the cluster working properly; but, now the thing keeps beeping while I'm driving and I have no idea why. Also the speedo stopped working so now just going by feel...

[Zackattack]

It's totally possible, and actually pretty easy once you set your mind to figuring out how it's done.
So, yes- you'll need the SKC from your old cluster, which can be retrieved from the ECU also. Getting it from the ECU seems to be more reliable, with Vagcommander.
Here's write-up for that:
https://sites.google.com/site/imnuts/

Getting the SKC from your new cluster can be trickier. usually Vagcommander will spaz out and can't read the cluster very well. Sometimes it does. There's a few other programs; I've used Vag-eprommer. Once you have those pins you just follow the Ross Tech procedure for Immo III matching.

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...ument_Cluster)

If you have a Hex-Can cable that's all you'd need. And I've done it remotely for a couple people who have a HexCan and Teamviewer. BuT at that point you can just do it yourself, since it's just clicking the right stuff. The hard part honestly is getting those hacked chinese programs to work properly.
It sounds like you understand the procedure well enough, from there it's just a matter of somehow getting the programs to work on your particular windows laptop- drivers can really be a hassle, which is why the HexCan cable is so good, it always works.

Just read that link you provided, surprisingly that wasn't one I came across. The HEX-DEC conversion method. Nice! Thank you, I will try that...

[RENOxDECEPTION]

I believe you could unsolder the old EEPROM chip and solder it to the new cluster.

That would even transfer your mileage over, although I've never had success doing it myself...


I think it’s that 8 pin IC





https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/...Doc/21132F.pdf

You could even get SOIC 8 pin IC clip and a serial EEPROM programmer to copy your old and program it to the new.

[jbain2]

I just went through all of this recently. I used an older version of vag-commander on a laptop running windows 10. I was able to read the donor pin with Vag-commander without issues and then write the old cluster info to the new one. Once you get the pin info you can write the entire bin file from the donor cluster to the new one. Take note of the mileage when you read the donor cluster initially. Take a picture.

Your speedo won’t work until you get everything coded properly including the SKC. You will need to make sure the new cluster is coded appropriately with VCDS as well for the correct car type when you are finished.


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[chris86vw]

I believe you could unsolder the old EEPROM chip and solder it to the new cluster.

Just don't lose the eeprom like I did from my Freelander ECU

oops.




As for cables I've found that while most work, there are sometimes weird combos of cable, OS, and computer that don't work. My surface pro3 is an example of one that simply will not see many of these cables.

I've also had instances where when using my other computer my hex-can will not work with some of these programs but the key-com (I've got one of each so I forget exactly) will work 99% of the time. My allroad also just simply hates my hex-net and will often tell me modules don't exist, that is normal scanning though not this type of thing. The hex-net and hex-v2 are completely different internally from other cables and won't work with any of these various pieces of software.

[Zackattack]

I believe you could unsolder the old EEPROM chip and solder it to the new cluster.

That would even transfer your mileage over, although I've never had success doing it myself...


I think it’s that 8 pin IC





https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/...Doc/21132F.pdf

You could even get SOIC 8 pin IC clip and a serial EEPROM programmer to copy your old and program it to the new.

You have tried to do this then? What happened, it just blanked out when it was re-applied or it would not function? I don't see any battery on the cluster mainboard so what holds the memory? Usually there has to be some power source to hold the memory correct?

[RENOxDECEPTION]

Incorrect, EEPROM -> Electronically erasable programmable read-only memory, does not require constant power to store data.

Don't remember what happened it was about a year ago and all I was trying to do was change the mileage on a non-immobilized cluster, but I know that the EEPROM stores both mileage and immobilizer data.

I think it was just my luck, I don't tend to be very lucky. Perhaps someone else will chime in that's had luck with soldering method.

[Mad Cow]

I've ruined an EEPROM desoldering as well, never figured out why but I'm assuming I shorted out some pins when there was charge left in a capacitor somewhere. A programming clip is a must, purely to save the frustration of desoldering without a hot air rework gun.

[hoganalley]

I've also had instances where when using my other computer my hex-can will not work with some of these programs but the key-com (I've got one of each so I forget exactly) will work 99% of the time. My allroad also just simply hates my hex-net and will often tell me modules don't exist, that is normal scanning though not this type of thing. The hex-net and hex-v2 are completely different internally from other cables and won't work with any of these various pieces of software.

This is exactly what happened to me last year when you helped me with my VAGCOM cable.

Don't know if you remember or not.

Same deal - the allroad hates Hex-Can but is fine with key-usb

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[Zackattack]

So I have an SMD soldering station already. I have the hot air rework gun. The soldering method seems to be entertaining me so far. However, the EEPROM clip and USB device are fairly inexpensive and may be worth checking out as well. If i get the clip and the clip-usb interface, what program do I need to copy the old and flash/program the new chip? Does anyone have instructions or experience doing this on an Audi VDO EEPROM chip?

Usually in the SMD process that chip is put on the circuit board and then the whole thing is heated to around 300 degrees F to solidify the soldering paste. I read that too much heat can negatively affect the data storage of the EEPROM chip. Maybe that is why the soldering method has failed before? That's the only thing keeping me from jumping right in on swapping chips, although I did watch some successful videos of people doing it in the ECMs.

[rollerton]

About 10 years ago when I was into Mk4 Vw's I used VagTacho fairly successfully to read/ write EEPROMs on those clusters. It worked well on all those but I was never able to get it to work with Any Audi hardware. I was able to 'build' a Mk4 Golf full FIS cluster using a Passat W8 cluster and soldering caps and resisters to the incomplete circuits on the W8. the W8 cluster used CAN for nearly all signals, so to get Temp and a couple other things to work you had to be creative. It did end up working though with a hyrbid EEPROM.
Anyway; for modifying EEPROM data I used a program called XVI32; looks like it's still free: http://www.chmaas.handshake.de/delph...vi32/xvi32.htm

IF you can get it working Vagcommander *should* read and write the EEPROM , Vagtacho doesn't work on Audis newer than 99-00' from my experience, but you could try. I have Vageeprommer also, which is very useful once you get it working on your laptop.
I'm not sure about the soldering, between Vagcommander and Vageeprommer I have been able to adapt immo systems on everything I needed to up to the Rb8 B7 A4 clusters. No problems with C5, B5, B6, And same generation VW's.

[superdlux]

I just swapped clusters in my S6 - I was using VAgCommander and it just wasn’t working out (couldn’t get a good PIN from the new cluster).

A member of another forum recommended VAG eePROM v1.9 and it couldn’t have been simpler.

I just downloaded and saved the entire BIN file from each cluster (just in case), and rewrote the new cluster with the original BIN file.
Everything transferred over: no IMMO issues, keys worked, mileage was correct. So much easier than doing it the other way.


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[superdlux]

Btw, I was on Windows XP and used the $15 eBay cable that came with vagcommander.


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[rollerton]

Btw, I was on Windows XP and used the $15 eBay cable that came with vagcommander.


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I honestly think ^ THIS ^ is the key to having it work reliably and be easy. After XP getting peripherals to work with windows is an absolute shit-show. I try and help people but if they're running anything newer than XP there's almost nothing you can do. Windows 7 was 'ok' , but even that still causes headaches.

[superdlux]

I honestly think ^ THIS ^ is the key to having it work reliably and be easy. After XP getting peripherals to work with windows is an absolute shit-show. I try and help people but if they're running anything newer than XP there's almost nothing you can do. Windows 7 was 'ok' , but even that still causes headaches.

I plugged in the ebay cable and XP asked for a driver – I directed it to the VAG Commander install cd that came with it and it was all good from there. I did not need to install any different drivers for the other software to recognize and utilize the cable.

I despise Windows – I'm a Mac guy and even I figured it out :)

[jbain2]

I too bought an eBay cable. Used version 1.4 of vag commander on my windows notebook running windows 10.

I am a Mac guy as well and got it to work.


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[Zackattack]

Can anyone post a link for downloading v 1.4? I can't find the original CD now and my laptop just arrived. Hoping all 1.4 are the same as I will be using windows 10 line jbain2.

[Zackattack]

Ok found the CD, copied to windows and I can't get vag commander to run. Keep getting an "list index out of bounds 0" dialog box. Anyone using windows 10 vag commander 1.4 using home or pro? Looking at the VAG eePROM v1.9 now. Does this run on windows 10? I just wan't to be able to swap my new cluster in and drive the car :-(

[rollerton]

I just did a key matching (and ODO tinkering! oops!, just to prove I could) ) on an A4 the other day.
I use Vag Commander and the cheap blue Ebay KKL cable.
** Extract the files to somewhere and Open the file ' tester.ini ' and make a change make where it says :

[COM]
CAN_PORT=1
KWP_PORT=1

You change that to " PORT=2 " , typically that seems to make it work .
Then SAVE and right click on VW TESTER and run as administrator. Bottom right corner 'selection type' should be K-line.
Above that where it says 'Target' select 07 Kombi . Then " Open Channel ' . And it almost always works for me on my Win7 laptop.

I'm using VAGcommander 2.5 though. Here's a link. : https://drive.google.com/VagCommander 2.5
This is exactly how I've done it on C5's for a long time. But thhis will extract the SKC from the cluster if you read the Eeprom. You can also get the SKC from the ECU.

[Zackattack]

THANK YOU FOR THE SOFTWARE! Man that one opened right up. Got the key code from the original and converted then checked and it worked. Now, when going into the instrument cluster (on the donor cluster) in vag commander which lines am I looking at for the code? Is it the same as the ECU lines 30 & 33 because it keeps saying the code is wrong.

[Zackattack]

Rollerton, thank you again for that software link. I don't know why 1.4 wouldn't run but 2.5 worked fine. I was able to retrieve the keycodes from both clusters. I tried doing the adaptation then in VCDS but the software constantly said "wait" at the top and never adapted the new code. My battery had gotten very low from having the ignition on for hours so I have a charger on it now and I'll try again later. I'll let you know how it turns out. Thanks again!

[Zackattack]

Ok,I was using a friends laptop earlier to retrieve the pin #'s from the clusters. At home, I am using my computer (windows 10) and commander dongle. Now (of course) I'm getting no communication with com ports 1-4 when testing thru VCDS and com port inaccessible in commander 2.5. I have changed the port, or tried, thru device manager to port 2 but each time I plug the dongle in and check it says com 3 again. I have also opened the tester.ini and changed com ports to 2 and tried 3 as well with no luck. Running FTDI driver 2.12.28 and I have 2 USB ports, one 2.0 and one 3.0. I'm trying to troubleshoot this and wondering to those that have windows 10, when you change ports, then go back in again and look, does the port change? So when you look in device manager and see usb serial port (com3) and you change it to com 2, when you go back into check, does it say usb serial port (com2)?

[Zackattack]

Everyone,

I am still at this. Just got back from India and I'm still trying to beat Immo 3 and swap in a used cluster. Got a new version of VCDS because the freeware was not working for adaptation. Now when trying to adapt, I enter the old key to the new cluster and hit test. This time it works except I'm getting "Not OK" showing up and still the adaptation is not working. Please tell me someone can help me out, I'm trying to swap in a new cluster into a 2004 audi A6 and it seems like I would have an easier time extracting missile launch codes from the US government. Does anyone have any ideas as to why I'm getting "Not OK" fault? How do I just turn off the IMMO? I need to have the car inspected in January and it's never going to pass with a non working speedo.

[superdlux]

Everyone,

I am still at this. Just got back from India and I'm still trying to beat Immo 3 and swap in a used cluster. Got a new version of VCDS because the freeware was not working for adaptation. Now when trying to adapt, I enter the old key to the new cluster and hit test. This time it works except I'm getting "Not OK" showing up and still the adaptation is not working. Please tell me someone can help me out, I'm trying to swap in a new cluster into a 2004 audi A6 and it seems like I would have an easier time extracting missile launch codes from the US government. Does anyone have any ideas as to why I'm getting "Not OK" fault? How do I just turn off the IMMO? I need to have the car inspected in January and it's never going to pass with a non working speedo.

Dude, read my earlier posts. Much like I did originally, you’re overthinking this.


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[Zackattack]

SOLVED!

Big props to everyone for helping me out with this, what a major pain. Superdlux was right, I was overthinking it. Used Vag eeprom and copied the entire .bin dump from the old cluster to the new and viola. My stereo went into safe mode but I had the factory radio card and booklet in the dash and reset the radio in 30 seconds. Gunna go drive this thing like I stole it now that I can see the speed! Big props again to AZ! Ya'll the best.

[superdlux]

SOLVED!

Big props to everyone for helping me out with this, what a major pain. Superdlux was right, I was overthinking it. Used Vag eeprom and copied the entire .bin dump from the old cluster to the new and viola. My stereo went into safe mode but I had the factory radio card and booklet in the dash and reset the radio in 30 seconds. Gunna go drive this thing like I stole it now that I can see the speed! Big props again to AZ! Ya'll the best.

I felt the same way once I was enlightened. :)


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