Torque Converter RPM surge Poll

[a4lownslow]

Seems to me like all the B7 A4’s I Drive and or own experience some degree of rpm fluctuation due to the TC. I have been wrenching on these cars for years, but just now realizing how common this problem is. I own a small dealership specializing with Audi, Vw, BMW so I see a lot of these cars and they all do it!!

I’ve been browsing the web and believe this is a major issue affecting cars with as low as 30k. There was a TSB issued, but never became a recall.

It seems somewhat benign, but certainly annoying and unacceptable.

I’d love to hear from those who drive tiptronic. Do you have this issue, how long has it been occurring, and has it gotten worse?


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[419kla]

I wasn't sure what caused this, but it happens to me. I have about 78k miles on mine. It usually happens for a little while somewhere between a cold engine and fully warmed up and is most pronounced at about ~30 mph. It stops once the car is fully warmed up so I don't think much of it.

[DownhillA4]

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...4#post13364424

Posted about it last year, take a read. What else is new, every platform of Audi's has a major issue, still getting us back from the War. :)

[aluthman]

I had a b7 tip car a while back for a short period and it surged a little when in gear until it warmed up. Wasn’t sure concerning because the car had 174k and otherwise, everything worked really well.

[a4lownslow]

I wasn't sure what caused this, but it happens to me. I have about 78k miles on mine. It usually happens for a little while somewhere between a cold engine and fully warmed up and is most pronounced at about ~30 mph. It stops once the car is fully warmed up so I don't think much of it.

Those are the same symptoms I have read about and experience with most of the ones I see. I’ve got 3 right now and they all do it. Mileage 100, 111, 135.




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[a4lownslow]

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...4#post13364424

Posted about it last year, take a read. What else is new, every platform of Audi's has a major issue, still getting us back from the War. :)

I will take a read. I’ve been browsing many threads the last couple days but did not come across yours.

It really is a love hate with these Audi’s. 1.8t with the oil sludge.. 2.0t with cam follower, balance shaft, timing tensioner (issues I though were major enough), and now TC is on my radar. B8 2.0 timing chain tensioner, oil consumption, and rear main seal.. sometimes I wonder why I choose to buy, fix, and sell these cars lol.


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[a4lownslow]

I had a b7 tip car a while back for a short period and it surged a little when in gear until it warmed up. Wasn’t sure concerning because the car had 174k and otherwise, everything worked really well.

Even with that mileage it’s not acceptable, i wonder for how long it was like that. I’ve got 2 right now around 100k doing it. And one with 135k that fluctuates over 2-300rpm. Far worse than the others and it doesn’t get much better when warm, like really Audi should have acknowledged this.


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[wootwoot]

I'm at 115k miles and haven't noticed any TC issues.

[KJack]

My 2007 A4 has 76,000 miles and I get some RPM fluctuation when there are cool temps outside. After the car warms up the fluctuation goes away. It doesn’t bother me.

[audiman91]

Seems to me like all the B7 A4’s I Drive and or own experience some degree of rpm fluctuation due to the TC. I have been wrenching on these cars for years, but just now realizing how common this problem is. I own a small dealership specializing with Audi, Vw, BMW so I see a lot of these cars and they all do it!!

I’ve been browsing the web and believe this is a major issue affecting cars with as low as 30k. There was a TSB issued, but never became a recall.

It seems somewhat benign, but certainly annoying and unacceptable.

I’d love to hear from those who drive tiptronic. Do you have this issue, how long has it been occurring, and has it gotten worse?


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I have for as long as i remember but i really started studying it last winter. It only does this in the cold weather and we are just now getting our cold mornings in Indiana. After my car starts to warm up, it goes away. I have yet to perform a carbon clean so no idea if its related. Currently at 127k miles.

[a4lownslow]

I have for as long as i remember but i really started studying it last winter. It only does this in the cold weather and we are just now getting our cold mornings in Indiana. After my car starts to warm up, it goes away. I have yet to perform a carbon clean so no idea if its related. Currently at 127k miles.

That seems to be the general consensus. Symptoms there when cold, and go away when warm. Carbon buildup does not seem to be related to this, although I’d take that over TC.


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[a4lownslow]

I'm at 115k miles and haven't noticed any TC issues.

Lucky you!


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[a4lownslow]

My 2007 A4 has 76,000 miles and I get some RPM fluctuation when there are cool temps outside. After the car warms up the fluctuation goes away. It doesn’t bother me.

Personally it doesn’t bother me either. I don’t feel as though it’s a reliability concern, more so a drivability annoyance, but that can be a tricky one to explain when selling these cars as a dealer. The enthusiast/ honest person in me likes to break down all the detail, and be as transparent as possible when selling vehicles. Good and bad.


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[bigheadb7]

I experience this on cold starts ! I thought it was piston rings because car was swallowing oil but after a compression test and some other stuff, I found out that my valve cover was cracked and Pcv was faulty. Oil consumption was Fixed to 1 quart every 2500 miles like it was before but RPM was still funny. What is the solution to this problem ???


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[a4lownslow]

I experience this on cold starts ! I thought it was piston rings because car was swallowing oil but after a compression test and some other stuff, I found out that my valve cover was cracked and Pcv was faulty. Oil consumption was Fixed to 1 quart every 2500 miles like it was before but RPM was still funny. What is the solution to this problem ???


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The solution is a new torque converter. But it’s going to have the same issue eventually. I came across a post where the symptoms returned after 30k on a NEW one. Sounds like there may be an upgraded seal that will rectify it for good, but I haven’t looked that far into it. These cars are getting old enough where it really isn’t worth the cost for a new TC, even if you’re doing the work yourself.. unless it’s really bad. I have one right now that jumps 300+ rpm and will still do it after driving for hours. Only happens at light throttle 30-40mph. Thinking about trying a fluid and filter change but that may be a waste of 300$. Some say it helps, others not so much.


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[vce1232000]

Ive got 245,000 miles on the original transmission . Ive been this since i purchased it with 161,000. Its been the same rpm fluctuation

[wootwoot]

Many of those with issues mention cold weather. How cold exactly? I ask because I have not seen issues but my car is never in the cold, I live in Phoenix.

[Charles.waite]

My old old 2006 Tiptronic did that. I believe we bought it with 75k miles or something and it did that since we bought it (its so subtle I didn't notice it for a while though). It would bounce 1-200 rpms under low load, most notably when cold, but it tended to do it when warm too. Rather than dick around with that car that I wasn't a huge fan of anyway (it shifted pretty rough as well and I really dislike Automatics) we traded it for my current 6MT b7. I was going to do trans filter and fluid but at the time, ~2011, the fluids were Audi brand only and were like $80/L and the filter was like $250. The cheapest I could price the job was like $650 or something ridiculous so I decided on a hard pass and kept driving it until we traded it in.

The lurchiness from a stop, and the dragging while stopped was super frustrating and something I chalked up to the torque converter basically being partially engaged or "dragging" while at idle. In P and N it idled so smooth, but put it into R or D and it vibrated like hell. I wasn't a fan.

By comparison, the 8-Speed ZF Tiptronic in my wife's current Q5 is so so so much better. I just changed the trans fluid and filter at 65k miles due to some shifting issues and its freaking perfect now. The b7 should have a transmission that shifts like that.

[a4lownslow]

My old old 2006 Tiptronic did that. I believe we bought it with 75k miles or something and it did that since we bought it (its so subtle I didn't notice it for a while though). It would bounce 1-200 rpms under low load, most notably when cold, but it tended to do it when warm too. Rather than dick around with that car that I wasn't a huge fan of anyway (it shifted pretty rough as well and I really dislike Automatics) we traded it for my current 6MT b7. I was going to do trans filter and fluid but at the time, ~2011, the fluids were Audi brand only and were like $80/L and the filter was like $250. The cheapest I could price the job was like $650 or something ridiculous so I decided on a hard pass and kept driving it until we traded it in.

The lurchiness from a stop, and the dragging while stopped was super frustrating and something I chalked up to the torque converter basically being partially engaged or "dragging" while at idle. In P and N it idled so smooth, but put it into R or D and it vibrated like hell. I wasn't a fan.

By comparison, the 8-Speed ZF Tiptronic in my wife's current Q5 is so so so much better. I just changed the trans fluid and filter at 65k miles due to some shifting issues and its freaking perfect now. The b7 should have a transmission that shifts like that.

That TC really is something.. it’s like clockwork on everyone I drive.

Before I got my dealers license (about a year ago) I would fix and flip a few Audi’s a year for a few years, and by personal choice I would always buy manual Audi’s because that’s what I liked driving. Now that I do it for a business I’ll buy either auto or manual, and that’s how this entered my radar. I’ve Easily driven 15+ b7 models that I can recall doing this, and it Makes me want to stick with manual trans lol.

Such a bother when selling, regardless if the symptoms stay the same for 100k, it’s still there and most will acknowledge it. Same goes for the vibration at idle when in gear.. everyone asks “is that normal?” My response is yup, they all do it

My significant other drives a 2010 Q5, transmission smooth as silk @ 110k.


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[KJack]

Many of those with issues mention cold weather. How cold exactly? I ask because I have not seen issues but my car is never in the cold, I live in Phoenix.

I start to notice it when morning temps are in the 40s.

[B7TitaniumA4]

I bought my 2008 A4 2 years ago with 68k on it, surge was pretty bad at that time. Early on in my ownership I had the fluid flushed with the comparable REDLINE (ECS sells a kit that includes the REDLINE as an alternative to the Audi fluid) since then it is a lot less noticeable though I do still notice it, and shifts are smoother as well.

I live in south Florida where cold starts are usually in the 75*-100* mark but during winter the temps drop into the 40's and 50's its a little worse that time a year.

I'm at 110k now and its still there but much less noticeable then when I bought it.

[griga]

i also have surging, some days worse than others depending on weather. 144k miles, still have yet to do a fluid and filter change. didn’t know the cost of fluid has gone down?


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[wootwoot]

Are you experiencing issues in D or S mode?

[griga]

personally, i only have the issue in D and very very slightly in TIP mode. In TIP it’s mainly slipping not really surging. I haven’t experienced it in S but i prefer not to drive in it


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[9744RR]

No "surging" issues with the tip trans in our 08 Avant before and after the fluid and filter was changed at around 75k and the car has about 92k now. Car is completely stock.

[Dino11]

Do these cars have a lock up style converter?

If they do then it might just be the converter de coupling due to high load demand and not enough RPM to keep it locked up.

My 2005 with 235000 miles does not do this warm or cold, but it does not down shift into 1st gear unless you come to a complete stop.
But it will take off in second gear pretty well.
First gear seems a little useless, it shifts into second gear only moving a couple of feet.

[K1196A]

180k+
same as most describe... occurs when cold and stops once warm. probably around 120k when it started. doesn't seem to be getting worse, but I'd be happy to not have it.

[vce1232000]

@ it as 1 of the characteristics of these cars

[a1dan_87]

Definitely happens to me as well. Close family member and his b7 has had problems all over the place. Torque converter RPMS surge though, usually around 30-45MPH when it's cooler outside

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[Dwightlud]

I have a 2006 Avant that I bought with 72,000 on it. At that time is had a surge of about 30-40 RPMs. Surging stops once it has been driven for a time. Three years and 30,000 miles later, nothing has changed. I also have a 2008 sedan with 70,000 and no sign of fluctuation.

[DownhillA4]

Transmission Fluid Flush + Filter change should decrease the issue significantly. I had it on mine and it got rid of it 99%.

[a4lownslow]

Transmission Fluid Flush + Filter change should decrease the issue significantly. I had it on mine and it got rid of it 99%.

Good to know. I’m planning to give it a try in the next week or so. I will report back with my results.


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[Planespotting]

Yup. Second owner and it has done it since I bought the car in 2013 at 114k miles. I now have 176k. It seems like its getting worse. I may have a flush/fill done before long.

[medrads2020]

I have a 2007 A4 with 107k miles surging about 200rpm between 30-45mph when cold while in D. Third gear seems to slip while shifting into fourth and surges about 400rpm. This is not present with >25% throttle or after the engine temps come up and the car has done a few minutes above 50mph. This issue also isn't present in Sport or Manual modes regardless of temps.

[Gin+]

2007 2.0 TIP. Bought the car with 63k and a slight rpm bounce when cold weather hits that disappears when it warms up. Now it is close to 130k and the issue has remained relatively the same. I have a buddy with a 2.0 TIP and his seemed a little worse, he ended up replacing the TC and it solved the issue.

[Jayz691]

i also have surging, some days worse than others depending on weather. 144k miles, still have yet to do a fluid and filter change. didn’t know the cost of fluid has gone down?


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You can find the zf oem fluid for like $22/l. Can get cheaper comparable stuff for like $16. Was just on a site(can't rem which) and everything was under $200. Thats for 6 liters, not for a full flush. Just a drain and fill.

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[Jayz691]

i also have surging, some days worse than others depending on weather. 144k miles, still have yet to do a fluid and filter change. didn’t know the cost of fluid has gone down?


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That sitr is rmeuropean.com

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[Charles.waite]

FCPEuro has ZF Lifeguard for cheap too

[a4lownslow]

UPDATE: ZF lifeguard fluid and filter change from FCP, cost around 250$. No change in symptoms. Kit came with 8 quarts, only took 5.


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[JayDog747]

What you need to do is drive for ~1k miles and then change it again. Just a drain and refill if you already changed the filter. This way you are assured that the majority of the fluid is fresh. As for the surging, you probably have a vacuum leak somewhere. I've changed the fluid twice in my S4(140k) and it still does it when it's cold and then goes away when it warms up.