Allroad 2.7T or 4.2 reliability

[Middleton7]

Soooo... looking to make a trip next summer.. doing the Trans American Trail (Google it). Mostly back roads and trails from Virginia to Washington state... it's a long trek.. designed originally for dual sport bikes, but 4wd recommended if going with 4 wheels... being an Audi guy, the Allroad immediately came to mind.. plenty of time to find the car and handle preventative maintenance items... what years (pre 2006 to keep expense down) and engine should I look for? The torque of the 4.2 would be great, but I really don't want to be stuck on a trail somewhere due to mechanical failure. Thoughts?

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[JorisRS6]

Id go for the 4.2. No turbos and less things that could leave you stranded. The 4.2 is a good solid engine. This will be a great trip!


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[Middleton7]

Thank ya sir! I'm of the same opinion, but wanted to get some other opinions... should be a really fun trip with my boys. Tent, cooler, bag of tools... good to go!

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[Mad Cow]

The allroad 4.2 is more similar to the later 4.2s with the ridiculous timing chain setup, I'd be careful with those.

[mr_dave]

I made a conscious decision to stay away from this and stick to the timing-belted 4.2L engines.


(timing chain 4.2L)

[JorisRS6]

But you will hear the chain rattle long before it will actually starts causing real problems. Maybe find one with the timing service done


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[Middleton7]

Very aware of that nightmare chain setup and the failure points... any clue what years, if any, Allroad had the belt engine? Not scared of the work on the chains, just not something I want to surprise me on a trip... belt wise, I'd most likely do the service before the trip.

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[Middleton7]

Or.. was the belt engine only in the earlier A6 and A8s?

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[Middleton7]

But you will hear the chain rattle long before it will actually starts causing real problems. Maybe find one with the timing service done


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Any time I go to look at a used Audi, I bring my laptop with VAGCOM and run a full scan... correlations included.


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[WanaB5]

Any time I go to look at a used Audi, I bring my laptop with VAGCOM and run a full scan... correlations included.


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That's a smart move! 4.2 timing chain Audis scare me haha!

[mr_dave]

Very aware of that nightmare chain setup and the failure points... any clue what years, if any, Allroad had the belt engine?

All C5 4.2L Allroads have the timing chain. All C5 A6/S6/RS6 4.2L are timing belt.

[Middleton7]

All C5 4.2L Allroads have the timing chain. All C5 A6/S6/RS6 4.2L are timing belt.

Outstanding. Much thanks for that info.. there's a 4.2, engine with harness only, for sale locally for around 800 bucks. Need to take a look and see if it's belt. Any idea how compatible the two are? Like if you could do a clean swap from chain engine to belt engine.

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[mr_dave]

Like if you could do a clean swap from chain engine to belt engine.

No. I believe the main reason the Allroads have the chain engine is due to having less space in the engine compartment compared with the widebody C5s. I'm sure there are also electrical and transmission differences too. Anything is possible but it's certainly not a direct swap.

[cdu]

I think people have done this swap (belt 4.2 into an allroad) with some small modifications; I suspect audi stopped making the belt driven 4.2 to simplify their supply chains (no pun intended).

My understanding is that the BEL cars share the same ECU as the 2002/2003 S6.

I would avoid a 4.2 chain driven version because the ramen tensioners scare me; I would avoid the 2.7 because I'm not sure how well the turbos would do with lots of mud on them; a frankenroad with a belty 4.2 and the TDI 6mt would be a sweet sweet build.

Regardless of what you do put a big fat skid plate on it.

The 2.7 is probably the most reasonable choice because it is the most economical, has the 6mt option from the factory, and the turbos would probably help at higher altitudes...

Don't forget to get a car with on-star so you can listen to it trying to call someone with the antique cell phone when you get stuck.

[Middleton7]

No. I believe the main reason the Allroads have the chain engine is due to having less space in the engine compartment compared with the widebody C5s. I'm sure there are also electrical and transmission differences too. Anything is possible but it's certainly not a direct swap.

Makes sense... ish... I must research... hard to imagine removing the chain components and adding the belt components making it longer.

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[Middleton7]

I think people have done this swap (belt 4.2 into an allroad) with some small modifications; I suspect audi stopped making the belt driven 4.2 to simplify their supply chains (no pun intended).

My understanding is that the BEL cars share the same ECU as the 2002/2003 S6.

I would avoid a 4.2 chain driven version because the ramen tensioners scare me; I would avoid the 2.7 because I'm not sure how well the turbos would do with lots of mud on them; a frankenroad with a belty 4.2 and the TDI 6mt would be a sweet sweet build.

Regardless of what you do put a big fat skid plate on it.

The 2.7 is probably the most reasonable choice because it is the most economical, has the 6mt option from the factory, and the turbos would probably help at higher altitudes...

Don't forget to get a car with on-star so you can listen to it trying to call someone with the antique cell phone when you get stuck.

Ha! No OnStar for this guy! I'm an RF engineer by trade that just happens to be working as a mechanic now... lots of great info. Sounds like an ideal situation would be a belted 4.2 with the 6mt. Wiring isn't difficult, so not worried there. Fortunately the little shop I work at also has a fab side with a huge plasma table... skid plate is a definite! Given 9+ months, I think I may be able to piece this together. Biggest worry is the airbags... shocks... do NOT want to be out there and have them fail... ground clearance will be kinda important.

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[cdu]

I wouldn't worry at all about the air suspension as a failure point if you replace all of it prior to trip and bring spares. All of it should be pretty easy to fix in the field.

I got a whole new spring set from http://www.air-suspension-shop.com -- there are plenty of examples of modding the ar to go from reasonable clearance to 14inches of clearance using nearly stock suspension and bigger tires.

The "thor" alloy skid plate looks to be $350.

A landy with a rusty frame might be more rational but I definitely want to see a 6mt 4.2 ank build...

[mr_dave]

Sounds like an ideal situation would be a belted 4.2 with the 6mt.

The options for belted 4.2L are (in order of rarity):

• 450hp TT from C5 RS6
• 360hp from D2 S8
• 340hp from C5 S6
• 300hp from C5 A6

[Middleton7]

The options for belted 4.2L are (in order of rarity):

• 450hp TT from C5 RS6
• 360hp from D2 S8
• 340hp from C5 S6
• 300hp from C5 A6

I feel that 300hp and ??? Torque should be adequate and an attainable engine. Can't imagine I'd find one from an S6 very easily, much less an RS6. However, it can't hurt to look.. lol

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[Nogaro Nitwit]

I have both the 4.2 and 2.7 allroads. I guess it is a toss up. I really haven’t had too many mechanical issues with either. I guess it depends if you want to row gears or just use a tiptronic. The 4.2 gives you immediate torque vs the building torque on the 2.7. I haven’t had many mechanical issues with either. The 4.2 had a bad crank sensor, oil sensor and an accessory belt shredded itself. On the 2.7 I have had O2 sensors and the torque converter was going so I had it converted to a manual. When the 4.2 does that, I will go manual there too.

[Middleton7]

I have both the 4.2 and 2.7 allroads. I guess it is a toss up. I really haven’t had too many mechanical issues with either. I guess it depends if you want to row gears or just use a tiptronic. The 4.2 gives you immediate torque vs the building torque on the 2.7. I haven’t had many mechanical issues with either. The 4.2 had a bad crank sensor, oil sensor and an accessory belt shredded itself. On the 2.7 I have had O2 sensors and the torque converter was going so I had it converted to a manual. When the 4.2 does that, I will go manual there too.

Just thinking that instantaneous torque may come in handy for what I'm going to be doing. I'm going going to call these folks and see what it came from to determine if it's a belt engine..

2000 Audi A6 4.2 engine

https://charlotte.craigslist.org/pts...691917096.html

Car was in an accident engine has 130000 miles

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[Gogeees]

That is a belt engine.

[Middleton7]

That is a belt engine.

Excellent!

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[Mad Cow]

Keep in mind that a belt 4.2 isn't exactly a plug & play swap into an allroad, Bordom has a pretty extensive thread about it.

[Gogeees]

Keep in mind that a belt 4.2 isn't exactly a plug & play swap into an allroad, Bordom has a pretty extensive thread about it.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...2-V8-Swap-Info

[Middleton7]

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...2-V8-Swap-Info

I appreciate that greatly! I'll read through it tonight. Not too worried about minor mods... I'm not dropping an LSx in it... yet... lol. Although my shop owner does have a 92 Skyline GT-R with a sexy Lil RB26DETT sitting in the shop... fresh new upgraded turbos... hmmmm..

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[n8henn]

Might get crucified for suggesting this but...…….have you given any thought on early T1 and T2 VW Touaregs? 04-mid 07 has belt driven V8 as an option, mid 07-09 they offered a chain driven (far less chain issues but FSI carbon can be an issue) V8 FSI engine option. Built in the Bratislava Slovakia Porsche plant, they came with (as options) a stout 4Xmotion system, locking diffs, air ride. now a days, these can be had for very reasonable prices and your still in the VAG family. Just a thought and wouldn.t need to deal with engine swaps.

I'm allowed to offer this advice since I own them both. Haha! Either way, you cant go wrong IMHO.

[Middleton7]

Might get crucified for suggesting this but...…….have you given any thought on early T1 and T2 VW Touaregs? 04-mid 07 has belt driven V8 as an option, mid 07-09 they offered a chain driven (far less chain issues but FSI carbon can be an issue) V8 FSI engine option. Built in the Bratislava Slovakia Porsche plant, they came with (as options) a stout 4Xmotion system, locking diffs, air ride. now a days, these can be had for very reasonable prices and your still in the VAG family. Just a thought and wouldn.t need to deal with engine swaps.

I'm allowed to offer this advice since I own them both. Haha! Either way, you cant go wrong IMHO.

Man... I hadn't even thought of it recently. Was watching a Touareg a while ago on CL with the 4.2 for dirt cheap. I passed unfortunately. That's an extremely valid option. So, that gives me another option to keep an eye on. How are they reliability wise? Any known bad failure points? Obviously I'll want to address everything I can before the trip. I appreciate that tip!

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[Middleton7]

Man... I hadn't even thought of it recently. Was watching a Touareg a while ago on CL with the 4.2 for dirt cheap. I passed unfortunately. That's an extremely valid option. So, that gives me another option to keep an eye on. How are they reliability wise? Any known bad failure points? Obviously I'll want to address everything I can before the trip. I appreciate that tip!

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Guess there's the V10 TDi option there as well... think I can find one for under 5k?!?!?! Good luck right?!

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[n8henn]

Haha, good luck is right. well kept, well optioned V10 options are still fetching a pretty penny. I'd seen some low mileage, well kept examples (2008 T2 I believe) fetch $30,000 range. Shit tons of torque though : ) They made a V6 TDI as well in the later T2 (08-10 range if Im not mistaken) but to my understanding, they are like finding a needle in a haystack. I believe they were affected by the "buyback" as well so that could potentially be another can of worms.
Like any slightly older euro, maintenance history is key. The Aisin 6 speed auto gearbox is a potential issue (as no manual option was offered) but to my knowledge is not as prone to failure as the earlier tiptronic AR autos.
I had often asked myself, where to go vehicle wise, once your used to the versatility of the allroad and this is a damn good option/comparison. My thought is, why wait to replace the AR, lets add it along side in the stable. Haha! We opted for the FSI V8 and we love it.

[n8henn]

one other thing to add...……. the newer body T3's, although pretty sharp to look at, became rather sedate "soccer mom-ish" sport ute's in comparison to the older T1 and T2's. VW no longer offered many of the mechanical items that made it a Touareg such as 4Xmotion (went with Vw's 4motion on demand AWD), No air ride in NA, no locking diff option either if im not mistaken but...….they do offer a sweet diesel option.

[Middleton7]

Any of the diesels would be good... not sure about the 4motion system. Audis Quattro system is my favorite based upon how it works. I like the all there all the time thing. I'll have to dig into VWs version.

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[PaperToast]

fwiw, i have 243k-244k on my 2.7, with just the usual stuff done (timing belt x3, VCG)
getting geared up to make a ~1100 mile trip in it next weekend

[Middleton7]

fwiw, i have 243k-244k on my 2.7, with just the usual stuff done (timing belt x3, VCG)
getting geared up to make a ~1100 mile trip in it next weekend

One of the good guys that keeps up with maintenance. Nice! And good luck on that trip. I'm sure you'll have zero issues... but take a laptop with VAGCOM with you just in case.

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