Oil Consumption Solution in a Can!

[blgilles]

Hey everyone!

So has anyone heard of this stuff before?

• Liqui-Moly 2020 Motor Oil Saver
• https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00CP..._t2_B00CGRX6RE

Better yet has anyone used it?

I’m a bit hopeful, given that (1) it’s Liqui-Moly (they seem legit) and (2) there is a review in there of a B8 2.0T motor going from consuming 5L every 10k miles to consuming 1L every 10k Miles.

From first glance it seems it won’t help folks who are at say a quart every 300 miles, but will help for those at say 1 quart every 1-2k miles.

Thoughts?

[jfo]

This sounds like a product called Auto-Rx that has been around for years. It's one of the very few additives I've ever seen that has shown some before/after comparisons of it's affect in cleaning sludge. I don't know if this info is still included on their new web page, after a quick look.
I believe it's an ester based liquid (AutoRx)that is primarily designed to slowly dissolve sludge, varnish, etc and to improve elasticity of revolving seals. It's not a magic solvent based flush like most of the useless products out there. Concerning reducing oil consumption, they say it can help with this if the cause is contaminants on the rings. If the ring pack is sticky or gummed up, the cleaning action can help by freeing the rings to perform as intended. It does not claim to fix bad or worn rings, or seal scored pistons, etc which is the problem with our earlier 2.0 engines.
You add the product and then drive for a period of time depending on the issue....maybe 1-2K miles. If the LM product has a similar method then it may be the same chemistry.

That review going from 5 to 1 L sounds unrealistic, unless it was a leak.

[blgilles]

Ah, good info - thanks.

[blgilles]

Interesting, at least a BMW dealership recommends in for regular oil service (BMWs are apparently known for consuming oil too, the same time-period vehicles at least, as per here).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRX3YcahywE

[mtroxel]

Check this Youtube. He's showing what happens to the 2.0's with the bad rings. No additive is going to weld these rings back together.

https://youtu.be/G-WrxAOaWDs?t=21

[blgilles]

Check this Youtube. He's showing what happens to the 2.0's with the bad rings. No additive is going to weld these rings back together.

https://youtu.be/G-WrxAOaWDs?t=21

I had watched that actually. Do you know how quickly that one would go through oil? I didn't notice immediately.

Anyways, ya, those are cracked rings for sure. So I'm actually thinking of this product for cases where the rings aren't cracked, as this guy mentions on the review page, below:


So I would suppose this guy, below, has cracked rings:


But I think consumption on the order of say 1 liter every 2k miles probably isn't cracked rings, but could be a combination of:

1. Assortment of seal/o-ring leaks all about the engine
2. Valve seal leaks
3. Ring blow-by resulting in high consumption (through PCV into intake)

EDIT: I think cracked rings probably results in consuming a quart every say 200 miles. Whereas consuming a quart every ~2k miles is probably not cracked rings. So I'm thinking this could help in the 2k-mile case, but probably not in the ~200-mile case.

Thoughts?

[mtroxel]

I had watched that actually. Do you know how quickly that one would go through oil? I didn't notice immediately.

I don't know about the rings in that Youtube, but generally, a lot of the people with the oil consumption issue have complained about using a quart in far less than 1,000 miles. 500-600 I've heard.

[blgilles]

I don't know about the rings in that Youtube, but generally, a lot of the people with the oil consumption issue have complained about using a quart in far less than 1,000 miles. 500-600 I've heard.

Got it. Yes, I'm wondering if in those cases the vehicles have cracked rings, or really bad bored-out cylinder sleeves, or just terrible-to-start (and now, worse) rings, or perhaps all of those, and leaky seals to boot, as a result of the excess blow-by.

[JD23]

Anyone willing to be a guinea pig?

[jfo]

After reading more about it, their claims are the same as Auto-Rx with the main focus on improving seal performance and stopping seal leaks, as well as potentially improving ring performance if they are gummed up. I do not believe it will solve the poor ring/piston implementation in our engines. There is no magic fix for badly fitting rings.
It would be good to see an explanation of the chemistry and it's mode of action. It may fall into the "might help and can't hurt" category. You may also want to explore Auto-Rx.

[spin0rz]

It doesn't work. I've used it in my car which is getting a rebuild. I am burning 1 quart per 300 miles, or 650km.

The piston rings weren't made right from the factory on these. No amount of additive will fix your problem. In fact, I've tried a new "magic" additive every oil change without luck. Ranging from Lucas oil saver to mos2 etc.



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[blgilles]

spin0rz - great data; thanks. Makes sense that it doesn't work in that case - like you say the rings are just bad from the factory.

So when you get the rebuild done, can you show us the old rings and cylinder bores? Would love to know if the rings are broken, if the bores are bored out - really anything you can observe from it (and pics or it didn't happen! ;-).


Thanks!

[SlvrArrw]

Just a thought, sometimes engineers are too smart for their own good. You would think that after so many years engine design history, audi engineers could screw up piston/ring fitment. Anyway, I have some oil consumption , 2 quarts or so between oil changes(I also push my motor pretty hard), but I switched to Motul 5w40 and have seen reduced consumption rate. I am happy with the improvements vs a rebuild.

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[blgilles]

Also good to know. How many miles between oil changes?

[SlvrArrw]

About 7K

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[SlvrArrw]

I average 120mi per day mostly highway

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[blgilles]

Ok, cool. So you were consuming about 1 quart every 3,500 miles than. Not bad. My B7 was about 1 quart every 4,000 miles. I’m hoping somewhere close to that on my B8.

[spin0rz]

spin0rz - great data; thanks. Makes sense that it doesn't work in that case - like you say the rings are just bad from the factory.

So when you get the rebuild done, can you show us the old rings and cylinder bores? Would love to know if the rings are broken, if the bores are bored out - really anything you can observe from it (and pics or it didn't happen! ;-).


Thanks!

Sure, I'll document it. It'll be done after winter. Don't want to junk out a new engine with -30 celcius weather over the winter.

Edit: winter.


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[blgilles]

Ah, good call.

[studioRS]

I have a 2012 Avant S-line sport plus, stock CAEB engine.

Bought at 145k miles.

Immediately changed the timing chain, tensioner, guides (my tensioner was the farthest out recorded here -7.91) and oil / filter service with Castrol 5W40. Also ordered an oil dipstick from my local Audi dealer. We ventured on a 3,300 mi road trip VT > FL >VT this summer. Had a P2188 code pop up, and hard starting issue while there, drove back home fine. On the trip, oil use was about ~1/4 - 1/3 of a quart every 300 miles. I've never let oil level drop below 1/4 of a quart low, always keep it topped up.

151,129 miles
- Oil/filter service, switched to Mobil 1 15W-50 oil (summer), MANN oil filter (Nr. 719/45).
- Changed the HPFP and cam tappet (this fixed the P2188).
- Added 1 can of Liqui Moly Oil Saver (Nr. 2020, 300ml).
When it needed topping off, added a tick more Liqui Moly Oil Saver and oil.

Now only uses about 1/4 of a quart every 600 miles.

I'm at 154,780 miles now, all good to go, runs great and pulls strong.

I have 5L of Motul 8100 x-cess 5W-40, will use for the winter and adding another 300ml of Liqui Moly oil saver. Notes on Liqui Moly Oil saver says that it takes 300-400 miles for this to start working. I've noticed that it has slowed down the oil use to half of what it was before adding it and also my mpg has dropped ever so slightly. So, yes in my engine it has been working.

Liebesöl! =)

[A4x]

Just a thought, sometimes engineers are too smart for their own good. You would think that after so many years engine design history, audi engineers could screw up piston/ring fitment.

I assume it was done in an effort to increase fuel economy. OEMs go to great lengths to get little savings. Less interference between the piston ring and cylinder wall means less friction losses and a more efficient engine.

[mtroxel]

From what I've read, it seems the issue was not design, but a vendor who's quality control sucked or they cut corners. That explains why the affected CAEB engines tended to develop the problem in the first 50,000 miles, or never had the issue at all. It just depends on who's rings were sitting on the line the day your motor was built.

[blgilles]

From what I've read, it seems the issue was not design, but a vendor who's quality control sucked or they cut corners. That explains why the affected CAEB engines tended to develop the problem in the first 50,000 miles, or never had the issue at all. It just depends on who's rings were sitting on the line the day your motor was built.

So I’ve read as well. That said, it sound like it’s actually both!

So the tolerance issue would not have mattered, and in fact didn’t matter, on the older BPY and earlier motors, because those rings were designed to be tighter to the cylinder walls anyways. So it was the conbination of (1) the nominal design (ignoring tolerances and tolerance issues in manufacturing) being less tight against the cylinder walls compounded with (2) tolerance issues from manufacturers.

In short, the tolerances needed to be better with the CAEB design for it not to consume, they weren’t tighter on a lot, so a lot consumed oil.

[blgilles]

I have a 2012 Avant S-line sport plus, stock CAEB engine.

Bought at 145k miles.

Immediately changed the timing chain, tensioner, guides (my tensioner was the farthest out recorded here -7.91) and oil / filter service with Castrol 5W40. Also ordered an oil dipstick from my local Audi dealer. We ventured on a 3,300 mi road trip VT > FL >VT this summer. Had a P2188 code pop up, and hard starting issue while there, drove back home fine. On the trip, oil use was about ~1/4 - 1/3 of a quart every 300 miles. I've never let oil level drop below 1/4 of a quart low, always keep it topped up.

151,129 miles
- Oil/filter service, switched to Mobil 1 15W-50 oil (summer), MANN oil filter (Nr. 719/45).
- Changed the HPFP and cam tappet (this fixed the P2188).
- Added 1 can of Liqui Moly Oil Saver (Nr. 2020, 300ml).
When it needed topping off, added a tick more Liqui Moly Oil Saver and oil.

Now only uses about 1/4 of a quart every 600 miles.

I'm at 154,780 miles now, all good to go, runs great and pulls strong.

I have 5L of Motul 8100 x-cess 5W-40, will use for the winter and adding another 300ml of Liqui Moly oil saver. Notes on Liqui Moly Oil saver says that it takes 300-400 miles for this to start working. I've noticed that it has slowed down the oil use to half of what it was before adding it and also my mpg has dropped ever so slightly. So, yes in my engine it has been working.

Liebesöl! =)

Also thanks for the data points here. Mine, without the oil saver seems to consume somewhere under 1L of oil every 1k miles, most likely 0.75 L every 1k miles - so not enough for Audi to take action, apparently. I just added the oil saver and topped off the oil. We’ll see how it does for the next 1k miles, and the subsequent 1k, given that it takes about 300-400 miles to take effect.

[tocqueville]

Mine is a 2012 with 156500km on it, bought it at 149500kms. I am using Restore Engine Restorer and I am seeing improvement. (Couldn't find Liqui Moly Oil Saver in Canada) Car was burning almost a qt every 500 - 600km. Added Restore at 155407km (5500km after oil change) and I only filled up 1/2qt until 156488km. Went for an oil change today and added a bottle at 156509km, hope the second bottle will give me better result with new engine oil.

They use something call CSL particles to fills in and seals leaks in the cylinder wall, I assumed Oil Saver is using similar technology. Science behind those oil additives make sense to me, and they are not really changing the oil viscosity, 5w30 oil for Restore Engine Restorer.

I am keeping track of my oil consumption, don't know how to use table in here. Oil consumption test at 151959km, changed PCV. Audi Dealership wants CAD$4600 labor + tax for pistons and rings change, Audi Canada cover the parts. My engine has such high km already, I don't really see a point spending CAD$5000 for that, I rather use that money for an b8.5 engine swap in the future. BTW just got my Unitronic Stage 1 at my mechanic today, engine finally wake up after so many kms. lol

oil.png

I always check my engine cold, first thing in the morning

Did a 2500kms road trip at 152508km.

[tocqueville]

Was doing a little research on Liqui Moly Oil Saver last night, hope you guys are interested

What is MoS2?
https://liqui-moly.com.au/what-is-mos2/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molybdenum_disulfide
https://www.azonano.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=3605
https://www.engineersedge.com/lubric...cteristics.htm

My previous research on Restore Engine Restorer CSL micro-particle. I am not 100% sure what's CSL, but it think it's "Copper, Silver, Lead"

https://www.restoreusa.com/faq/engine-restorer-faq
https://www.enginerestore.co.uk/what...storer-3-w.asp
http://www.fuelly.com/forums/f9/resu...ive-11561.html
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...tive-9011.html

[blgilles]

Cool. Great info.

[studioRS]

@tocqueville — good reading and research, thank you!

If you are interested, Liqui Moly Motor Oil Saver Nr. 2020 from NAPA Canada. Looks like they carry engine oil as well.
https://www.napacanada.com/en/p/AORLM2020

[tocqueville]

@tocqueville — good reading and research, thank you!

If you are interested, Liqui Moly Motor Oil Saver Nr. 2020 from NAPA Canada. Looks like they carry engine oil as well.
https://www.napacanada.com/en/p/AORLM2020

Thanks very much for the link. I went Napa and couldn't find it off the shelf. I also found another online store for a little bit cheaper CAD $12, not sure about the shipping tho.

I also realized some Liqui Moly engine oil already contains MoS2 (Not sure the amount), that's probably why people say their car is running so good, since additive is already added. Maybe I will send an email to Liqui Moly and find out.