S vs. RS vs. M

[ajee622]

Wanted to get some opinions on the differences of the above mentioned. I currently have a SQ5 and had 2 B5 S4's. I've never driven or even been in a RS car. I've also owned 2 M3's (e46 and e93).

So other than just going out and driving them, I'd like to get your opinions first. I've insanely impressed with the s6/s7 and absolutely with the rs7, but wonder how it would compare to the m5.

The 2 M3's I had were spot on handling. loved that piece about the M cars. IMO the build quality of my e93 was better than my 2016 sq5.

So I guess my question is, do you see a difference in the s7 to rs7. Is the build quality different? does it handle better? IMO "S" cars aren't on par with "M" cars overall, but does the "RS" car outperform the "M" cars?

We also test drove a Macan S before the SQ5 and I was very impressed with it. The only reason we didn't go with it was it had 18K miles more and would've been out of warranty sooner and wasn't CPO'd. IMO it was the right overall decision but the Macan was awesome on the test drive.

[Guwapo77]

S class is not the competitor of the M class. RS vs M is the only real debate to be had IMO. I never owned a M or a RS, I went with a S7 and decided to upgrade it close to a RS to save a lot of money. For this reason, I'll exit this convo and see where this goes.

[cobrario]

Wanted to get some opinions on the differences of the above mentioned. I currently have a SQ5 and had 2 B5 S4's. I've never driven or even been in a RS car. I've also owned 2 M3's (e46 and e93).

So other than just going out and driving them, I'd like to get your opinions first. I've insanely impressed with the s6/s7 and absolutely with the rs7, but wonder how it would compare to the m5.

The 2 M3's I had were spot on handling. loved that piece about the M cars. IMO the build quality of my e93 was better than my 2016 sq5.

So I guess my question is, do you see a difference in the s7 to rs7. Is the build quality different? does it handle better? IMO "S" cars aren't on par with "M" cars overall, but does the "RS" car outperform the "M" cars?

We also test drove a Macan S before the SQ5 and I was very impressed with it. The only reason we didn't go with it was it had 18K miles more and would've been out of warranty sooner and wasn't CPO'd. IMO it was the right overall decision but the Macan was awesome on the test drive.

define "outperform" and what year car are you talking about, C7/7.5, F10/F90? Stock for Stock or are you looking at tuning potential? is this something you're considering or just a conversation out of curiosity?

[ajee622]

define "outperform" and what year car are you talking about, C7/7.5, F10/F90? Stock for Stock or are you looking at tuning potential? is this something you're considering or just a conversation out of curiosity?

Potential purchasing, but obviously even in the used market a S7 to RS7 are miles away. Ex. used S7 can probably get for $45ish easily, RS7 will easily be $70k+. What are the noticeable differences? Then compared to F10 M5. F90 i think is too new to be thrown into the conversation. we can say tuning potential, but basic mods. I'm not trying to start a debate, but trying to compare if I had $45K to spend, should i get S7 or F10 M5 or just wait and go with RS7.

[Cam.CL.S7]

As much as I try to compare my S7 to the M5 they keep on beating me lol, the RS7 would have a field day with the M5 tho, stock for stock. The S7 is more in the 650i class and the CLS 550 class. But I have owned and driven M cars and of course owned S cars and they are pretty competitive in all aspects to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mordgier]

S are generally not as sporty as M cars - but the price difference makes S cars the best value for money when compared to RS/M/AMG vehicles.

With that said, I don't think an RS7 and M5 are in the same league just due to the weight difference the RS7 will not feel the same at all - but it IS faster:
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ry-car-feature

[AnesRS7]

I have owned (M6, M5, X5M and Rs7)

(All tuned(
M6 hands down fastest off roll
RS7 is fast everywhere
M5 feels heavier then rs7 when driven to its limits
X5M is jack of all trades lol

In short the Rs7 and the M5 are 2 diff cars. The m5 has the rs7 best in the transmission department. That DCT is simply amazing. Also the resale value of an f10 m5 has plummeted ! You can get a decent one at auction in the 20s lol where an Rs7 holds value.

In this order

M6/Rs7-X5M- M5. (My favorites)

For overAll go fast everywhere and anytime the Rs7 Cant be touched.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[cobrario]

Potential purchasing, but obviously even in the used market a S7 to RS7 are miles away. Ex. used S7 can probably get for $45ish easily, RS7 will easily be $70k+. What are the noticeable differences? Then compared to F10 M5. F90 i think is too new to be thrown into the conversation. we can say tuning potential, but basic mods. I'm not trying to start a debate, but trying to compare if I had $45K to spend, should i get S7 or F10 M5 or just wait and go with RS7.

not thinking you were starting a debate, sorry if I seemed that way, just trying to narrow down what data points you were looking for information about- I can only speak for the RS7 from 1st hand experience and that experience duplicates Anes comments above- as an all around performer the RS7 is the pack leader vs the W212 and F10- the new version W213 and F90 are next gen models so prob not a fair comparison. The RS7 is the ultimate cruiser and from a dig not much is going to out run you on the street (even more so with stage one tune). When stage 1, I drove to Cecil County (155 miles each way) got 28mpg and ran 10.40 having done nothing after the long drive, then drove home, in a 4540 lb land yacht - I'm a 4rings guy so my reply that the RS wins that battle all day may be coming from a homer but it's no less true. Good luck

[gk1]

FWIW S7 and RS7 are the same car from a strictly quality perspective. Audi makes all their cars within the same class with similar level of quality. Which FWIW is why, in my opinion, I feel the RS3 is a bit overprices as it is essentially a $60k+ variety of Audi's entry level US model A3 interior with a hugely powerful engine added, stiffer suspension and nicer seats, but they had to answer the BMW M2. A similar statement can be said for the RS7 but at least it starts with the higher standard of the A7/S7 level of interior quality. Don't get me wrong. Both are special and unique due to those items alone (engine, suspension and seats) but neither is really a different quality level over an S model or even an A model for that fact, just different style and some slightly different available options (wheels, carbon trim).

Now that is just basically interior build quality.
From a standpoint of the heart of an RS model, the engine, that is a different animal since they are "beefed up" by Audi Sport GmbH (formerly quattro GmbH) to handle and output more power. i.e. larger crank journals, different heat treatments, different turbos, pistons, some different cooling and associated electronics, etc. but things like the oil separator, motor mounts, timing chain and many many other items are the same between S7 and RS with the same motor layout so therefore the quality of those parts are the same. In this case the RS3 would be an exception as it has a 5-cylinder vs 4-cylinder A3/S3 models thus making it "special" again and perhaps deserving of the higher price tag to some people.

Suspension runs the same as interior quality it is the same quality manufacturer as the standard suspensions just with different damping rates and larger sway diameters. It is not like the RS steps up to something exotic like external reservoir Ohlins dampers.

All that being said I feel it comes down to personal tastes. I like the S interior look better than the A interior based largely on the seats alone. They did come out with the A6 "competition" package which has the same seats as my S6 and that may be enough for some people who do not need/want the extra power. Similar to A model S-Line options where you get a number of S upgrades without the extra power. (I'm still waiting for Audi to reveal something like an S6 RS-line with all the internal/external looks of an RS.)

This is all just my opinion and it stems from owning a B8 S4 and driving a B8 RS5. To me the interior was virtually the same, the suspension was extremely stiff which was not pleasant in my area and at that time the V8 in the RS5 needed to be wrung out to really notice any performance difference over a simple stage 1 3.0T S4 other than sound. Now the RS5's have switch to turbo/torque preference like most manufacturers which does change things a bit making the extra push more useful/noticeable for my style of driving.

[ajee622]

Interesting thanks for all the replies everyone. I've never owned a "bigger" car, as mentioned it's was 2 B5 S4's and 2 M3's. I'm hesitant to go "heavier" but the #'s the m5 and s6/s7 put out are insane.

[phaphaphooey]

FWIW S7 and RS7 are the same car from a strictly quality perspective. Audi makes all their cars within the same class with similar level of quality. Which FWIW is why, in my opinion, I feel the RS3 is a bit overprices as it is essentially a $60k+ variety of Audi's entry level US model A3 interior with a hugely powerful engine added, stiffer suspension and nicer seats, but they had to answer the BMW M2. A similar statement can be said for the RS7 but at least it starts with the higher standard of the A7/S7 level of interior quality. Don't get me wrong. Both are special and unique due to those items alone (engine, suspension and seats) but neither is really a different quality level over an S model or even an A model for that fact, just different style and some slightly different available options (wheels, carbon trim).

Now that is just basically interior build quality.
From a standpoint of the heart of an RS model, the engine, that is a different animal since they are "beefed up" by Audi Sport GmbH (formerly quattro GmbH) to handle and output more power. i.e. larger crank journals, different heat treatments, different turbos, pistons, some different cooling and associated electronics, etc. but things like the oil separator, motor mounts, timing chain and many many other items are the same between S7 and RS with the same motor layout so therefore the quality of those parts are the same. In this case the RS3 would be an exception as it has a 5-cylinder vs 4-cylinder A3/S3 models thus making it "special" again and perhaps deserving of the higher price tag to some people.

Suspension runs the same as interior quality it is the same quality manufacturer as the standard suspensions just with different damping rates and larger sway diameters. It is not like the RS steps up to something exotic like external reservoir Ohlins dampers.

All that being said I feel it comes down to personal tastes. I like the S interior look better than the A interior based largely on the seats alone. They did come out with the A6 "competition" package which has the same seats as my S6 and that may be enough for some people who do not need/want the extra power. Similar to A model S-Line options where you get a number of S upgrades without the extra power. (I'm still waiting for Audi to reveal something like an S6 RS-line with all the internal/external looks of an RS.)

This is all just my opinion and it stems from owning a B8 S4 and driving a B8 RS5. To me the interior was virtually the same, the suspension was extremely stiff which was not pleasant in my area and at that time the V8 in the RS5 needed to be wrung out to really notice any performance difference over a simple stage 1 3.0T S4 other than sound. Now the RS5's have switch to turbo/torque preference like most manufacturers which does change things a bit making the extra push more useful/noticeable for my style of driving.

Aren't the RS models actually assembled by Audi Sport GmbH while the normal range and S models are assembled by Audi?

Edit: I had forgotten that in addition to the RS cars being manufactured by Audi Sport, they are even given an entirely different VIN range to signify that they were not produced alongside the mainstream Audi models.

[Mordgier]

Aren't the RS models actually assembled by Audi Sport GmbH while the normal range and S models are assembled by Audi?

Edit: I had forgotten that in addition to the RS cars being manufactured by Audi Sport, they are even given an entirely different VIN range to signify that they were not produced alongside the mainstream Audi models.

That is less true today then it used to be:
https://www.quattroworld.com/lifesty...s6-production/

Same factory makes the A6/7-RS6/7

The RS3 and TTRS are not even produced in germany iirc

[Phantom75]

On the street, the S cars will do just fin against the M cars, especially with a tune. I mean are you really spending 99% of your time doing 0-60 launches and living life by the 1/4 mile? The Audi S6, and S7 have better interior and looks than the M3,M4,M5. They are a bit more of a luxury car with some performance, that an performance track car, and that's by design. Audi also has a better infotainment system and general drivers tech options as well, although in the 2016 on up BMW line up they have made some nice improvements. I think bang for your buck the S6 is where it is at 100%. You get very nice power, fit, looks, and AWD for all weather conditions.

If you'd consider RWD, and I'm assuming you are since you're wondering about M cars, I actually think the 2014+ Jaguar XJR is a tremendous option as well. Their interiors are just spectacular, and they make globs of power, and use it in a way that hides their size. They are very underrated, and worth a test drive. They can also be had for extremely low prices on CPO cars with a 7 year, 100,000 mile factory warranty. I almost bought one over the Porsche, but I wanted AWD and well....Porsche is Porsche. They are not the sheer track car of the M series either, but they would be a better driving car for anything other than track, and pure 0-60 launches (not that sub 4.0 0-60 is slow !)

Don't discount a 2016 CTSV - they are in the high 50's now.

Certainly the 2018 M5 is a beast of a car. You can't argue with the numbers. I wish they would have given it a bit more of a facelift inside and out, they just don't excite me that much.

The RS7 is out of this world fast, but they are not inexpensive cars, but if you're looking at a 2018 M5 price range well then an RS7 is well within reach.

If you're really wanting to stay under $40,000, then an S6 or that XJR are going to be way better buys, even over a 2013-2015 model range M4,M5 in my opinion.

[phaphaphooey]

That is less true today then it used to be:
https://www.quattroworld.com/lifesty...s6-production/

Same factory makes the A6/7-RS6/7

The RS3 and TTRS are not even produced in germany iirc

You are right about the RS3 and TTRS.

I believe that the lower volume RS models are produced separately by Quattro in the same Neckarsulum factory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_S_and_RS_models

However, I know for a fact that the VIN range is different for RS7 vs S7. That is easily verifiable.

[Mordgier]

You are right about the RS3 and TTRS.

I believe that the lower volume RS models are produced separately by Quattro in the same Neckarsulum factory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_S_and_RS_models

However, I know for a fact that the VIN range is different for RS7 vs S7. That is easily verifiable.

The vins are different. But they are built in the same factory - yes Neckarsulum - which makes the A7 right alongside the RS7.

Go book a tour if you don't believe me:
https://www.audi.com/foren/en/audi-f...ery-tours.html

[VVG]

The new M5 with AWD is the best of the current super sedans IMO. All the power, lower weight, and much better steering and body control than any Audi sedan has ever had. The AMG E63S is, likewise, amazing. Will have to see what the next gen RS7 brings to the table. That said, the RS5 is an amazing package too and much more dynamic than the bigger cars. Still, my vote is for the new M5, pending the next RS7.

[MaverickRS7]

I just came out of an F10 M5 that I daily drove and put 66k miles on her before an 18 wheeler totaled her. I picked up my RS7 performance in July and daily drive it, so far I have done 3600 miles. The interior of the BMW finish wise has some areas that are better than the RS7... Notably the center console, dash and door card tops as they are all leather( or at least you can order). The RS7 has a fair amount of soft plastic on surfaces that looks ok but isn't leather. The RS7 is by far a quieter car than the M5, thus speed is deceptively cloaked!! The 605 vs 560 and all wheel drive is noticeable, the RS7 just seems to always have power on tap, not that the M5 was slow and yes the DTC was amazing suited like a bolt action rifle. You can hear the M5 and when you put your foot in it it howls whereas the RS7 doesn't. Handling the M5 for a big car is amazing in corners , lane changing it just feels planted and I never found the edge, it always just stuck. The RS7 handles in a much flatter way, equally well balanced( Performance doesn't have air suspension) the M5 felt a bit more luxurious but the RS7 is an awesome place to be...I had a Panamera before the M5 and the RS7 is more comparable to it in driving feel. The value dropped like a rock and I was given $47k for mine totaled, it was a 2014 with 66k miles.....oh and I have the ceramic brakes and they are probably the best brakes I've ever driven....
F90 is a weak makeover of the F10 design wise....has 5 hp less than the RS 7.... The interior is not as good as the F10....

[phaphaphooey]

The vins are different. But they are built in the same factory - yes Neckarsulum - which makes the A7 right alongside the RS7.

Go book a tour if you don't believe me:
https://www.audi.com/foren/en/audi-f...ery-tours.html

Thank you for the invitation. I do not believe you. I have booked a tour and fly out tomorrow on my jet so that I can prove someone wrong on the internet. Wish me luck.

[subterFUSE]

The new M5 with AWD is the best of the current super sedans IMO. All the power, lower weight, and much better steering and body control than any Audi sedan has ever had. The AMG E63S is, likewise, amazing. Will have to see what the next gen RS7 brings to the table. That said, the RS5 is an amazing package too and much more dynamic than the bigger cars. Still, my vote is for the new M5, pending the next RS7.

+1 The new M5 is a total beast. Audi will have to bring the A game to top it, and even then it might not be doable.

[phaphaphooey]

To add something substantive to the thread, I initially planned to buy an S7 but after researching the RS7 I realized I couldn't settle. However, I will say that the S7 is 80% of the car of the RS7. That last 20% is expensive. It depends on your personal situation and opinion as to whether it is worth it to you.

I wanted the hatchback for the practicality so I didn't even consider an M5 even though it is a nice car no doubt.

[ajee622]

To add something substantive to the thread, I initially planned to buy an S7 but after researching the RS7 I realized I couldn't settle. However, I will say that the S7 is 80% of the car of the RS7. That last 20% is expensive. It depends on your personal situation and opinion as to whether it is worth it to you.

I wanted the hatchback for the practicality so I didn't even consider an M5 even though it is a nice car no doubt.

Phap -- can i ask you something that's completely off topic. I noticed in your sig you have a rs7 and Tesla. I've always wanted to ask this to someone who owns a Tesla, but don't want to come off sounding like a dic$ so please don't get offended. When you were looking at getting a Tesla, what was the appeal? Obviously by your sig you've had some nice petrol cars. I can only think of a few reasons why someone would want to buy an electric car: 1) prestige/to be different 2) savings on gas 3) environment 4) sponsorship/company ..... i'm assuming 2 and 3 are our of the question since you've had other petrol vehicles, so i'm assuming 1 or 4, which is perfectly fine by my book....it's the same reasoning on why someone would buy a Ferrari/Lambo. I'm just curious because Tesla for the most part carry's such a high end price tag and I'll admit I've never driven one, but seen the exterior/interior in person and it doesn't seem like it's "best in class" in any category. Honestly not bashing Tesla or you, but doesn't the P90D run about $120K? Just tell me to shut the fu$$ up if i'm out of line, but honestly i am curious.

[phaphaphooey]

Phap -- can i ask you something that's completely off topic. I noticed in your sig you have a rs7 and Tesla. I've always wanted to ask this to someone who owns a Tesla, but don't want to come off sounding like a dic$ so please don't get offended. When you were looking at getting a Tesla, what was the appeal? Obviously by your sig you've had some nice petrol cars. I can only think of a few reasons why someone would want to buy an electric car: 1) prestige/to be different 2) savings on gas 3) environment 4) sponsorship/company ..... i'm assuming 2 and 3 are our of the question since you've had other petrol vehicles, so i'm assuming 1 or 4, which is perfectly fine by my book....it's the same reasoning on why someone would buy a Ferrari/Lambo. I'm just curious because Tesla for the most part carry's such a high end price tag and I'll admit I've never driven one, but seen the exterior/interior in person and it doesn't seem like it's "best in class" in any category. Honestly not bashing Tesla or you, but doesn't the P90D run about $120K? Just tell me to shut the fu$$ up if i'm out of line, but honestly i am curious.

No problem. So, there were several things that interested me about it. I don't care about the environment to be honest with you and, if you are buying these types of cars (or an S7/RS7 for that matter), you don't really care about gas. I see it as a fun tax really. When I test drove the Tesla the sales person tried to pitch it as a cost saving measure since you would save money on gas. They go through this schtick where they calculate how much gas you use every year and then make the Tesla seem like it is this great savings plan. Funny thing was I was test driving a different P90D at that time that had an MSRP of a little under $150k. It amused me that they think they can sell a $150k car on the premise that it saves you money. But I digress.

Honestly, the things that drew me to it in no particular order were that I am a big tech nerd and it is so far above every other car from that standpoint. It gets new firmware updates every few weeks that (usually) add significant functionality to the car. I also am a speed junky and up through 80 MPH or so the acceleration is simply brutal and what's more it is drama free. You don't have to warm up the engine, you don't have to get a perfect launch, etc. Just mash the accelerator and off you go. It is also the fastest car I have driven in everyday situations because since the transmission is a single speed the response to giving it some gas (electrons) is always immediate. You don't have to worry about being in the right gear or letting the turbos spool. Acceleration is always right there all of the time. The regenerative braking spoils you as well. Unless it is a panic situation I never use the brake except to hold the car on an incline. My office is only a few miles away from my house so I always worry when driving an ICE vehicle that the engine doesn't get up to temp. No worries with electric. Autopilot is amazing if used as it is supposed to: cruise control on steroids on divided highways/interstates. It makes long drives so much less tiresome. You still have to pay attention though as it will occasionally try to kill you although that has gotten better. I think the newer facelift cars look pretty darn exotic/futuristic. Keep in mind I live in a rural area. I know you can't spit and miss a Tesla on the west coast. I do like being different as BMW/MB are a dime a dozen around here but not many Teslas. I have the only RS7 where I live as well. Finally, the cargo capacity is massive. We just had our first child and swear we will never own an SUV but would like the cargo capacity of one as I am learning that kids require a huge amount of things. This led us to the Tesla and the RS7 since both have a hatchback design and have the largest cargo capacity of any non wagon car in production today.

Those are my rambling thoughts as to why I got it/like it. It truly feels like driving a spaceship, for better or worse. I am a car guy through and through but I do like it. With that said, I don't daydream about driving it like I do the RS7 and my Alfa Romeo. It doesn't get my blood pumping like a traditional car does. Also, the fit and finish has gotten better over the years but still does not match its price point. Same thing for the materials. The interior design is intentionally spartan but neither the design nor the materials hold a candle to the Audi interior.

So those are my rambling thoughts. It is a great car for me but it is not for everyone. It takes a certain type of person. They aren't ready for primetime as long distance cars as the thought that needs to go into to charging and range, while much better than it was, is still IMO over the head of your average consumer that views their Camcord as some sort of magical transportation pod that requires no maintenance or thought to operate.

[MaverickRS7]

To add something substantive to the thread, I initially planned to buy an S7 but after researching the RS7 I realized I couldn't settle. However, I will say that the S7 is 80% of the car of the RS7. That last 20% is expensive. It depends on your personal situation and opinion as to whether it is worth it to you.

I wanted the hatchback for the practicality so I didn't even consider an M5 even though it is a nice car no doubt.

......substantive....? did I miss something😉

[phaphaphooey]

......substantive....? did I miss something😉

Not much

[zcd2.7t]

S vs. RS vs. M:

S = MSport = AMG "lite"

Audi has been doing the "in-between" line for years and it's only in the last 5 or so years that BMW (and MB) realized that they were leaving money on the table not offering something with more performance and style than the standard cars, but without being as hard core as the M (and AMG cars).

RS = M = AMG.

It's also interesting that BMW and MB followed Audi (after decades) in offering AWD on their performance models. Again, they were leaving money on the table by not offering AWD on their performance-oriented vehicles, and then of course lately, as the HP wars have really taken off, AWD becomes even more important to tame all that power.

On a related note, it's a bit surprising that Audi has so far failed to offer a version of quattro that allows de-coupling of the front drive, particularly given the critical success of those systems being offered by their competitors...

[ajee622]

No problem. So, there were several things that interested me about it. I don't care about the environment to be honest with you and, if you are buying these types of cars (or an S7/RS7 for that matter), you don't really care about gas. I see it as a fun tax really. When I test drove the Tesla the sales person tried to pitch it as a cost saving measure since you would save money on gas. They go through this schtick where they calculate how much gas you use every year and then make the Tesla seem like it is this great savings plan. Funny thing was I was test driving a different P90D at that time that had an MSRP of a little under $150k. It amused me that they think they can sell a $150k car on the premise that it saves you money. But I digress.

Honestly, the things that drew me to it in no particular order were that I am a big tech nerd and it is so far above every other car from that standpoint. It gets new firmware updates every few weeks that (usually) add significant functionality to the car. I also am a speed junky and up through 80 MPH or so the acceleration is simply brutal and what's more it is drama free. You don't have to warm up the engine, you don't have to get a perfect launch, etc. Just mash the accelerator and off you go. It is also the fastest car I have driven in everyday situations because since the transmission is a single speed the response to giving it some gas (electrons) is always immediate. You don't have to worry about being in the right gear or letting the turbos spool. Acceleration is always right there all of the time. The regenerative braking spoils you as well. Unless it is a panic situation I never use the brake except to hold the car on an incline. My office is only a few miles away from my house so I always worry when driving an ICE vehicle that the engine doesn't get up to temp. No worries with electric. Autopilot is amazing if used as it is supposed to: cruise control on steroids on divided highways/interstates. It makes long drives so much less tiresome. You still have to pay attention though as it will occasionally try to kill you although that has gotten better. I think the newer facelift cars look pretty darn exotic/futuristic. Keep in mind I live in a rural area. I know you can't spit and miss a Tesla on the west coast. I do like being different as BMW/MB are a dime a dozen around here but not many Teslas. I have the only RS7 where I live as well. Finally, the cargo capacity is massive. We just had our first child and swear we will never own an SUV but would like the cargo capacity of one as I am learning that kids require a huge amount of things. This led us to the Tesla and the RS7 since both have a hatchback design and have the largest cargo capacity of any non wagon car in production today.

Those are my rambling thoughts as to why I got it/like it. It truly feels like driving a spaceship, for better or worse. I am a car guy through and through but I do like it. With that said, I don't daydream about driving it like I do the RS7 and my Alfa Romeo. It doesn't get my blood pumping like a traditional car does. Also, the fit and finish has gotten better over the years but still does not match its price point. Same thing for the materials. The interior design is intentionally spartan but neither the design nor the materials hold a candle to the Audi interior.

So those are my rambling thoughts. It is a great car for me but it is not for everyone. It takes a certain type of person. They aren't ready for primetime as long distance cars as the thought that needs to go into to charging and range, while much better than it was, is still IMO over the head of your average consumer that views their Camcord as some sort of magical transportation pod that requires no maintenance or thought to operate.

Really appreciate the comments and I guess i would have to drive or be in one to feel that level of instant acceleration. Going to be interesting to see what happens to Tesla. I guess one sales tactic or value that Tesla offers is depreciation. From what i've noticed on the used car market the depreciation curve is far less curvy than say a RS7, M5, etc. so at least you know they will probably hold their value longer.

[wwhan]

Currently, the new four door Audi RS5 sportback looks more interesting than, what MB has the offer or planned for a smaller vehicle.

The C63 needs AWD. The E53 (underpower for weight) & E63 are too big.

The S6 seems too big for many parking places & I may move to the new four door Audi RS5 sportback, since the RS4 will not be available here.

[zcd2.7t]

Currently, the new four door Audi RS5 sportback looks more interesting than, what MB has the offer or planned for a smaller vehicle.

The C63 needs AWD. The E53 (underpower for weight) & E63 are too big.

The S6 seems too big for many parking places & I may move to the new four door Audi RS5 sportback, since the RS4 will not be available here.

I recently drove the RS5 Sportback on the track - fun car! Exhaust note is lacking compared to the S6, but overall acceleration is similar, and the handling is far better. I'm sure you'd enjoy it.

[MadAboutCars]

I recently drove the RS5 Sportback on the track - fun car! Exhaust note is lacking compared to the S6, but overall acceleration is similar, and the handling is far better. I'm sure you'd enjoy it.

What size wheels are they putting on the RS5 Sportback in the US. The NZ RS4 has 20" and the ride is very harsh in dynamic. Suspension is DRC. RS4 V6 exhaust note is unpleasant, IMHO. S5 and SQ5 is better.

[zcd2.7t]

What size wheels are they putting on the RS5 Sportback in the US. The NZ RS4 has 20" and the ride is very harsh in dynamic. Suspension is DRC. RS4 V6 exhaust note is unpleasant, IMHO. S5 and SQ5 is better.

It hasn't yet been officially introduced in the US, so I don't know for certain. The car I drove had 20s and all options.

I haven't driven a car with the single-turbo V-6 yet so I can't draw the comparison, but for a V-6, the RS5 sounded pretty good to me.

[Phantom75]

S vs. RS vs. M:

S = MSport = AMG "lite"

Audi has been doing the "in-between" line for years and it's only in the last 5 or so years that BMW (and MB) realized that they were leaving money on the table not offering something with more performance and style than the standard cars, but without being as hard core as the M (and AMG cars).

RS = M = AMG.

It's also interesting that BMW and MB followed Audi (after decades) in offering AWD on their performance models. Again, they were leaving money on the table by not offering AWD on their performance-oriented vehicles, and then of course lately, as the HP wars have really taken off, AWD becomes even more important to tame all that power.

On a related note, it's a bit surprising that Audi has so far failed to offer a version of quattro that allows de-coupling of the front drive, particularly given the critical success of those systems being offered by their competitors...

Other than burnouts, what would be the advantage of being able to turn an AWD car into a RWD car? The GTR hasn't felt the need, and well its does pretty good on a track. The Panamera Turbos do great and are a bit more RWD bias to the Audi but don't disable the AWD. I could see it as a drivers preference, or a gimmick but what advantage does it give you? Sending all the power to the rear? Don't the intelligent AWD systems already do that?

[db12]

The new 2018 BMW M5 has the RS7 beat by a hair in speed at 3.2 seconds. I also like the ability in the new M5 to switch between AWD and RWD. From a looks department I prefer the RS7.

[db12]

Other than burnouts, what would be the advantage of being able to turn an AWD car into a RWD car? The GTR hasn't felt the need, and well its does pretty good on a track. The Panamera Turbos do great and are a bit more RWD bias to the Audi but don't disable the AWD. I could see it as a drivers preference, or a gimmick but what advantage does it give you? Sending all the power to the rear? Don't the intelligent AWD systems already do that?

Not that these are meant to be track cars at the weight, however switching to RWD gives them and advantage in cornering.

[cobrario]

The new 2018 BMW M5 has the RS7 beat by a hair in speed at 3.2 seconds. I also like the ability in the new M5 to switch between AWD and RWD. From a looks department I prefer the RS7.

agree- as I understand it, under normal operation the M5 disengages the center diff once traction is achieved, becoming RWD helps from a roll in straight line performance as well- all things equal, and cars with identical CHP, the RWD version will outperform an AWD version on a 60-130 run.

[Phantom75]

agree- as I understand it, under normal operation the M5 disengages the center diff once traction is achieved, becoming RWD helps from a roll in straight line performance as well- all things equal, and cars with identical CHP, the RWD version will outperform an AWD version on a 60-130 run.

I get that, but most of the most modern AWD systems can bias the RWD to like 80/20 anyway, I can't help but wonder at that point what the gain is, other than satisfying a drifting need. I'd be happy to drive one and find out! I'd only be interested in a 6 or 8 series coupe or grand coupe though, I think the 5 series is kinds of lackluster. Its needs a true refresh. The Audi is so much better looking.