01E Transmission 0.56 6th Gear

[climb4hope]

Hello,

Did anybody try using.56 6th gear in the 01E transmission? How much mpg do you gain?

JHM stopped carrying it in stock a while ago. Who else is selling the gear with .56 ratio?

[jpaan]

Scotty at Advanced Automotion probably has them available.
https://advancedautomotion.com/shop/...9akctda6dne4o4

I had a tdi box (.59 6th) in a b5 s4 and gained a couple hwy mpg; I'm planning to swap the 01E in the s6 for gear spacing and mpg.

I think the mpg gains depend heavily on the engine in question - a 4.2 or stage 3 2.7 would gain more than others.

[8520]

I calculated it once and I figured it would take 5-7 years of only driving freeway speeds for it to pay for itself.

[climb4hope]

Thanks jpaan. I contacted Scott and he has them in stock. It is a bit pricey though... $1295:)

@8520: I figured that too. I spend ~$3000 on gas a year and 2/3 of that is hwy. Assuming the best gain of 10-15% on hwy it would take 5-6 years to pay off. My car has 185k on it. I wish it lasts that long :)

[8520]

Lucky man. My wife and I spend about $700 a month on gas currently.

To put it in perspective, my rs6 gets the best mileage of the 3 cars we drive 🤦🏻*♂️

[julex]

I have that and and I save probably 0 mpg because you need to have more charge/load on the engine to generate the same torque as in higher rpms with stock gearing . So no, you won't save any money by swapping gears inside of the transmission especially by going only after 6th...

What I would advise if you're replacing tranny already, is to get 4:11 final drive 01e as it would already come with lower gearing and with lower final drive (you'd also need 4:11 rear differential). That 01e transforms allroad from silly short geared diesel like car to normal gas car.

[climb4hope]

I have that and and I save probably 0 mpg because you need to have more charge/load on the engine to generate the same torque as in higher rpms with stock gearing . So no, you won't save any money by swapping gears inside of the transmission especially by going only after 6th...

What I would advise if you're replacing tranny already, is to get 4:11 final drive 01e as it would already come with lower gearing and with lower final drive (you'd also need 4:11 rear differential). That 01e transforms allroad from silly short geared diesel like car to normal gas car.

I would assume you still save some mpg assuming you are cruising on the 6th gear rather than accelerating on it. I can definitely tell that if I drive short shifting in city my mpg is better (shifting < 1800 rpm), but if I shift ~2500 it would usually consume more fuel. This is assuming you don't do hard acceleration, but just typical city driving.

I'm not planning to replace the entire transmission. I will most likely be partially rebuilding it, so just changing the final drive is not going to help as it wouldn't match the front anymore. On the other hand what would I gain by going 4.11. It makes sense to me if I'm trying to reduce the range of the gears, but my goal was to improve the hwy driving mpg and estimate is it even worth it. Doesn't swapping final drive and rear diff to 4.11 make the opposite?

[julex]

I would assume you still save some mpg assuming you are cruising on the 6th gear rather than accelerating on it. I can definitely tell that if I drive short shifting in city my mpg is better (shifting < 1800 rpm), but if I shift ~2500 it would usually consume more fuel. This is assuming you don't do hard acceleration, but just typical city driving.

I'm not planning to replace the entire transmission. I will most likely be partially rebuilding it, so just changing the final drive is not going to help as it wouldn't match the front anymore. On the other hand what would I gain by going 4.11. It makes sense to me if I'm trying to reduce the range of the gears, but my goal was to improve the hwy driving mpg and estimate is it even worth it. Doesn't swapping final drive and rear diff to 4.11 make the opposite?

4.11 makes the gears "longer" - what you're looking for. But again, don't even think about it from the angle of economy, you will very little if anything. At highway speeds you need actual torque because air resistance is significant and thus you will end up mashing the gas pedal in more or even downshifting a lot. I know I am doing that frequently or end up driving in 5th altogether (I have the TDI tranny in mine).

Here is the table I made a long time ago that illustrates the ratio differences between TDI, S4/A6 and allroad trannies:

	TDI	A6/S4	Allroad	Ratio	+Final
				Allroad to TDI	4.375 to 4.11
1st:	3.50	3.500	3.750	1.07	1.13
2nd:	1.89	1.889	2.059	1.09	1.15
3rd:	1.23	1.231	1.417	1.15	1.219
4th:	0.97	0.97	1.071	1.104	1.17
5th:	0.73	0.806	0.857	1.17	1.24
6th:	0.56	0.684	0.730	1.21	1.287
Final:	4.110	4.110	4.375	1.06

The last two columns are ratio allroad vs TDI gearing on particular gear (final drive is skipped because 4:11 on A6/S4 wheels gives about the same "to the road surface" final ratio as 4:375 on allroad's larger wheels). Last column is the ratio is you were to convert 4:375 to 4:11.

[DreamInRotary]

Good info in here! I've been driving my brother's new-to-him B6 A4 Avant with a 1.8t and 01E and the gearing is so much different than my AR. I find that I can barely cruise around a parking lot in 1st with my car, whereas his 1st is tall enough to do so. Then my 6th gear puts me at a much higher RPM at the same speed as his car runs. I contemplated it and then realized that I have much better things to do with my time

[jpaan]

Strictly from a cost and mpg perspective, it's probably not going to be worth it unless you keep the car for several years. Also, I would definitely go the direction of replacing the whole transmission and diff as the gear spacing would allow for more usable gears; I believe that the S4 should have come with the TDI transmission from the factory - the 4-5-6 gear spacing was much more natural feeling. The following shows some approximate info about speed vs RPM:

01E Transmissions 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th Final Tire diameter (in)
allroad 3.75 2.06 1.42 1.07 0.86 0.73 4.375 26.7
allroad tdi 3.50 1.89 1.23 0.87 0.73 0.56 4.11 26.7
A6/S4 3.50 1.89 1.23 0.96 0.82 0.68 4.11 25

"RPM at Speed
6th gear" 50 60 70 80 90 100
allroad 2010 2412 2815 3217 3619 4021
allroad tdi 1449 1739 2028 2318 2608 2898
A6/S4 1879 2255 2630 3006 3382 3758

Speed at
2000 RPM 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
allroad 9.7 17.6 25.6 33.9 42.2 49.7
allroad tdi 11.0 20.5 31.4 44.4 52.9 69.0
A6/S4 10.3 19.1 29.4 37.7 44.1 53.2

Hope this helps (or puts evil thoughts in your head).

[m_haiser]

Lucky man. My wife and I spend about $700 a month on gas currently.

To put it in perspective, my rs6 gets the best mileage of the 3 cars we drive 🤦🏻*♂️

good lord! how/why?

[climb4hope]

4.11 makes the gears "longer" - what you're looking for. But again, don't even think about it from the angle of economy, you will very little if anything. At highway speeds you need actual torque because air resistance is significant and thus you will end up mashing the gas pedal in more or even downshifting a lot. I know I am doing that frequently or end up driving in 5th altogether (I have the TDI tranny in mine).

Here is the table I made a long time ago that illustrates the ratio differences between TDI, S4/A6 and allroad trannies:

The last two columns are ratio allroad vs TDI gearing on particular gear (final drive is skipped because 4:11 on A6/S4 wheels gives about the same "to the road surface" final ratio as 4:375 on allroad's larger wheels). Last column is the ratio is you were to convert 4:375 to 4:11.

Thanks for the clarification. For some reason I thought the ratio was 3.75 in the allroad, but it is the other way around. Makes sense now. Great summary.

[climb4hope]

Strictly from a cost and mpg perspective, it's probably not going to be worth it unless you keep the car for several years. Also, I would definitely go the direction of replacing the whole transmission and diff as the gear spacing would allow for more usable gears; I believe that the S4 should have come with the TDI transmission from the factory - the 4-5-6 gear spacing was much more natural feeling. The following shows some approximate info about speed vs RPM:
...

Hope this helps (or puts evil thoughts in your head).

Thank you for the calculations. I guess you are right the amount of $$$ spent is not going to pay off anytime soon if ever. Given the age of the car i'm not gonna do it. But It was a good learning from you guys. Thanks again.

[julex]

Not a problem! But if your tranny "mysteriously" blew up then getting 01e from A6/S4 and changing rear diff to 4.11 is a no-brainer thing to do. It would also be relatively cheap endeavor too. I'd estimate that you'd pay 600-700 for transmission, then you'd rebuild it and get 4.11 rear differential from A6 (I paid $70 for mine...) and done. Then you can sell allroad transmission.

It makes allroad far more drivable and would accomplish far more than what you're looking for by also changing the stupidly short 1st and 2nd gears.

With my TDI tranny and 8.5k rpms limit on my built motor I've done 60-130mph pulls in 3rd gear and 2nd is good to 80mph . This makes for a hilarious battlewagon.

[climb4hope]

Julex, that is not a bad idea at all if I find a good deal on the TDI transmission. Seems like advanced automotive have a "reconditioned 01E TDI" for ~$2000. Where did you find yours for 600-700. It should be still short a few $100s from $2000 if rebuilding myself, but with a quick search I didn't find any good deals on TDI transmission at the moment. Did you get yours of eBay, junk yard, forum... ?

[julex]

Julex, that is not a bad idea at all if I find a good deal on the TDI transmission. Seems like advanced automotive have a "reconditioned 01E TDI" for ~$2000. Where did you find yours for 600-700. It should be still short a few $100s from $2000 if rebuilding myself, but with a quick search I didn't find any good deals on TDI transmission at the moment. Did you get yours of eBay, junk yard, forum... ?

TDI you won't commonly find used because it is not an US car equipped tranny. It comes from Canada or EU and advanced is sourcing them from there. The A6/S4 you can find plenty off for that price and that's what I was talking about wen quoting $600.

From perspective of time and my experience with TDI, I am seriously telling you that 0.56 on 6th in TDI is too tall for 2.7t allroad. 4.2 allroad would love 0.56 though because it has gobs more torque at low RPMS. 0.60 would be perfect there and effective ~0.64 of A6/S4 tranny after adjusting for 4.11 final you'd have in car, would also be pretty good.

My TDI was sourced from Scotty @ Advanced.

[jpaan]

I'm not sure I've ever seen a 01E TDI for sale under 1000, but if you find one that cheap then grab it immediately! I think Julex was referencing the standard A6/S4, as opposed to the TDI.

Also, I think the Allroad 01E came with an oil pump for an external oil cooler in the US, whereas the other US 01E equipped cars did not, so you may loose the external cooling during a swap. Hopefully somebody will correct me if I'm wrong.

[climb4hope]

I sent a message to Scott @Advanced Automotion and he has a 01E transmission with ratios 3.75 .. 0.60 with 3.89 final. This is something I'm considering at the moment. I need to talk to him to find out some more details. Btw, which stock car comes with 3.89 diff?

[jpaan]

0.60x3.89 is nearly the same as the 0.56x4.11 - theoretically it's 24 RPM higher at 60mph (1763 vs 1739) in the allroad. I suppose if you drive 70+ everywhere when it's flat and don't mind downshifting for anything more than a slight hill, it may be ok... But I don't have experience with that approximate combination.

[Watcher0691]

I sent a message to Scott @Advanced Automotion and he has a 01E transmission with ratios 3.75 .. 0.60 with 3.89 final. This is something I'm considering at the moment. I need to talk to him to find out some more details. Btw, which stock car comes with 3.89 diff?

Getrag
The 6 speed 01E, 4 wheel (all wheel) Audi A6 1998>
Code Letters: EKM , Rear final drive (also known as the 01R) Code Letters EUT (overall ratio in 6th gear 2.182) (also limited production with the FTL)
2.5L - 132KW - TDI
Final- 3.889
1st - 3.750
2nd - 2.059
3rd - 1.320
4th - 0.933
5th - 0.711
6th - 0.561

And...where it get really confusing for some folks. Assuming you have a stock (non-modded) Audi, It is sometimes better to use the "Rear Final Drive" Coding for the 01R to determine what flavor of 01E actually came with the vehicle from the factory.
01R to 01E Assignment
Code CUB , Ratio 4.111
Production date : 07.97
Allocation: Audi A6 1998> 2.5L TDI 110KW
Assignment of 01E gearbox CODE : DQT, FTF (100mm driveshaft flange)

Code DSA, Ratio 4.111
Production Date: 01.98, 08.99
Allocation: Audi A6 1998> 2.7 L T 169/184KW, 4.2L 250KW S6
Assignment of Gearbox Code: DSY, EDU, EEY (108MM Driveshaft flange)

Code ENX, Ratio 4.375
Production Date: 01.00 >
Allocation: Audi A6 Allroad Quattro 1998> 2.5L 132KW TDI, 2.7L T 184KW
Assignment of Gearbox Code: EHT, EHS, ETH, ETJ, FGY, FTZ, FTH, FTJ, FTN, FTP, FTQ, FTR (108MM driveshaft flange)

Code EUT, Ratio 3.889
Production Date: 09.99
Allocation: Audi A6 1998>2.5L 132KW TDI
Assignment of Gearbox Code: EKM, FTL (108MM driveshaft flange)

Code EUU, Ratio 4.111
Production Date: 07.99
Allocation: Audi A6 2.7L T 169/184 KW, 4.2L 250KW S6
Assignment of Gearbox Code: DSY, EDU, EEY, FRP, FTF, FTG (108MM driveshaft flange)

Code: FRB Ratio 4.111
Production Date: 05.01
Allocation: Audi A6 1998> 4.2L 250KW S6
Assignment of Gearbox Code: FRP

Code: EXY Ratio 4.375
Production Date: 03.01>
Allocation: Audi A6 1998> 3.0L 162KW
Assignment of Gearbox Code:FPW (108MM driveshaft flange)

Note: the differing 01E Gearbox codes are important for a reason other than "final drive" considerations. All Getrag transmissions for the Audi were either "close ratio" or "wide ratio" varieties depending on the vehicle and engine combo. That is why I always refer to the Final Drive ratio first when deciding which 01E gearbox code I am hunting for.
Happy hunting

edit: The transmission by AA would be a 01E with Gearbox code of EKM/FTL. The 6th gear is 0.561. No 01E final drive of 3.889 ever produced by Getrag had a "stock" 0.600 6th gear. (don't confuse "final drive" with "rear final drive")

[climb4hope]

Thanks Watcher,
A lot of useful info here!

[julex]

that's all good info pasted out of ETKA and thus mainly not applicable to US because this is global data as obvious by references to 2.5 engine which is TDI... anyhow.

Easiest and cheapest is B5 S4/ C5 A6 01e tranny paired with 4.11 rear diff from A6 (code EUU or FVN). This will already improve things tremendously as you're getting much better ratios and you kick down the final drive by a notch. In comparison to driving S4/A6 with the ratio, allroad gets about 6-7% longer gears with the same combo because allroad's tire circumference is this much larger from these two.

The one from S4 won't work on C5 platform. From there the next best option readily available from advanced is 01e from TDI with A6 4.11 rear differential.

When converting to non allroad 01e tranny there are two things that need to be done:
1. you'll lose useless transmission cooler
2. you'll have to move allroad front wheel output flanges to the new transmission as they are different from s4/a6/tdi output flanges. It is a very easy operation and involves literally one bolt per flange.

[Watcher0691]

that's all good info pasted out of ETKA and thus mainly not applicable to US because this is global data as obvious by references to 2.5 engine which is TDI... anyhow.

Easiest and cheapest is B5 S4/ C5 A6 01e tranny paired with 4.11 rear diff from A6 (code EUU or FVN). This will already improve things tremendously as you're getting much better ratios and you kick down the final drive by a notch. In comparison to driving S4/A6 with the ratio, allroad gets about 6-7% longer gears with the same combo because allroad's tire circumference is this much larger from these two.

The one from S4 won't work on C5 platform. From there the next best option readily available from advanced is 01e from TDI with A6 4.11 rear differential.

When converting to non allroad 01e tranny there are two things that need to be done:
1. you'll lose useless transmission cooler
2. you'll have to move allroad front wheel output flanges to the new transmission as they are different from s4/a6/tdi output flanges. It is a very easy operation and involves literally one bolt per flange.

LOL, then I have been had! Actually the document (and others) where handed to me by a Getrag and Audi rep at the 2013 Detroit Auto show when Audi debuted the Audi RS7. I was there with a group of US based individuals who were in discussions with Audi concerning fielding cars for the "Continential Racing Series" (now known as the IMSA Weather Tech Sports car series). Tomatoes / Tomato's, I simply shared that info to illustrate how complex the search for a manual transmission can be. There is a lot of unintended, but wrong info floating about the web on these transmissions. Most of which comes from sources that have little or no access to the Automotive Engineers who actually design the stuff. And yes, this is global data. Just as forums cater to a global clientele. You simply take what info is relevant to your needs or interest, then disregard the rest. "And everyone lived happily ever after"

[climb4hope]

I ended up ordering the transmission from Scott with 3.89 diff. Final ratios crank to wheels is almost the same as 4.11 tdi transmission. He also added an oil pump to that transmission so I won't have to remove the lines. IF that was really needed, probably not, but in any case...
Flanges are understood and that is indeed an easy job.

The more complicated question is how to you adjust the speedometer after the swap? Is there an adaptation option for it in the instrument cluster module in VCDS?

[julex]

Ans there is a 3.89 rear differential you can obtain that will work with this tranny and 6sp driveshaft?

[climb4hope]

Yes, Scott is sending me the rear diff as well with this transmission.

[julex]

Super!

[Gogeees]

I ended up ordering the transmission from Scott with 3.89 diff. Final ratios crank to wheels is almost the same as 4.11 tdi transmission. He also added an oil pump to that transmission so I won't have to remove the lines. IF that was really needed, probably not, but in any case...
Flanges are understood and that is indeed an easy job.

The more complicated question is how to you adjust the speedometer after the swap? Is there an adaptation option for it in the instrument cluster module in VCDS?

There is an option in VCDS for wheel circumference, not sure about a diff selection option. Maybe you can play with that number and get something that works?

[rollerton]

The more complicated question is how to you adjust the speedometer after the swap? Is there an adaptation option for it in the instrument cluster module in VCDS?

I don't think the C5 cluster module has the distance multiplier option in the adaptations. VW's did as far back as the B5 Passat and maybe even the Mk4, but haven't seen it in any Audis of the same era. But - trans final drive/ gearing shouldn't have any effect on speedo reading? It reads right off the axle, so that's usually only a problem with tire size changes..unless I'm missing something?

[chris86vw]

I don't think the C5 cluster module has the distance multiplier option in the adaptations. VW's did as far back as the B5 Passat and maybe even the Mk4, but haven't seen it in any Audis of the same era. But - trans final drive/ gearing shouldn't have any effect on speedo reading? It reads right off the axle, so that's usually only a problem with tire size changes..unless I'm missing something?

Correct reads off rotation of the front diff output so gearing doesn't matter. Diff spins one time is X distance no matter what the input ratio was.


not sure off top of my head about the adaptation either, don't recall dealing with it so not sure if that means it doesn't exist or never had to bother.

[rgtorque]

going to be pulling my trans shortly for some syncro upgrades and i came across this thread.

2005 allroad 2.7t 6speed currently stage 2 going stage 3 shortly.

i tow with my car a few times a month.

is it better to just buy a few gear sets for 4/5/6? i dont want to get a whole other trans or change out the rear. i would kill for a few more mpg highway... ideally i would have a friend overseas break open a trans or two for me and grab the gear sets i want.

[jpaan]

You'll have to do 3/4/5/6 as 3rd and 4th are fixed on the same shaft, but 3rd would be the same ratio. If you can get them cheap enough, it would be worth it, so long as you can deal with the down-time. Not having the connections, I elected to purchase a replacement transmission as it was cheaper.

[climb4hope]

This is exactly the reason I decided to go with the new transmission. It is hard to source the gears and they are expensive if new. Rebuild transmission and diff will probably cost you less than the new gears you want.

[ben0069]

This is exactly the reason I decided to go with the new transmission. It is hard to source the gears and they are expensive if new. Rebuild transmission and diff will probably cost you less than the new gears you want.

I ordered one of these from scotty march (2017), 3.89 final for my tdi , I hope it's pretty close to being shipped over, purely for drivability, been needing a new clutch and flywheel for ages too, waiting to do it all in one hit.

[Nollywood]

You guys are paying high prices!

I paid $205 for an 01E out of a 2003 C5 A6 2.5 TDI Quattro. And $216 for another, out of a 2003 B6 A4 2.5 TDI Quattro.

[8520]

You guys are paying high prices!

I paid $205 for an 01E out of a 2003 C5 A6 2.5 TDI Quattro. And $216 for another, out of a 2003 B6 A4 2.5 TDI Quattro.

We never had any tdi 01e’s offered in the states sooooo

[julex]

We never had any tdi 01e’s offered in the states sooooo

but it makes you wonder where Scotty is getting his TDIs from

[Nollywood]

but it makes you wonder where Scotty is getting his TDIs from

Stockpiling.

I’ve been buying up all the 01E’s I can get hold of too, there’ll come a time when there will be none left, and I love the 01E’s.

I have 8 so far.

[Scotty@Advanced]

but it makes you wonder where Scotty is getting his TDIs from

UK, Germany, Poland, Latvia, Ukraine, and Bulgaria

[Scotty@Advanced]

This is exactly the reason I decided to go with the new transmission. It is hard to source the gears and they are expensive if new. Rebuild transmission and diff will probably cost you less than the new gears you want.

Audi has started to discontinue 01E parts. The 351J 4th gear is not available, and the .60 and .59 tdi 6th gear are not available anymore.