Replacing camshaft seals

[wren57]

Is this possible without remove the cams? I don't see how it is but my buddy who is a former B5 S4 owner swears it is although he's not able to remember how...

[vavJETTAw36]

yes, of course. That is true for the cam adjuster seals as well. You'll have to pull off the timing belt though for the cam seals.

[wren57]

yes, of course. That is true for the cam adjuster seals as well. You'll have to pull off the timing belt though for the cam seals.

Procedure? Belt is off. I'm resealing everything I can find.

[vavJETTAw36]

you have to pull the old one out and put the new one in. You can do this by drilling a small hole into the center part of the seal (metal). then use a pick to pull it out. OR you can try to drill a small wood screw in and pull it out with pliers. you may have to do this in 2 or three areas to get them completely out.

OR you can pull off the entire bearing cap and get it out very easily with your fingers. But then youll have to reseal the bearing cap.

To get the new one in, you can use a PVC pipe relatively the same size to press the new one in. Ive got the audi tool to press them in with ease.

[vavJETTAw36]

This is the audi tool for the install. You just need something that resembles it.

[bmwpower603]

I’m at the point where I have to do this as well. . I’m not looking forward to it. I’ve done valve covers on bmw v8s, and in-line 6’s, as well as b6 s4 vcg. But nothing like this.

Maybe once everything is in front of me it will be easier to take in.

[antzb5s4]

It's very simple once you get the cam gears off. I tapped mine in with a socket.

[Hog]

I went with pulling the bearing cap for mine.

Can anyone verify that black RTV is adequate for sealing the cap?

Thanks

[bmwpower603]

Are the cam chain tensioner gaskets a lot easier to do?

Is it worth replacing the tensioner gaskets, and doing vcg without doing the cam seals? Or should all of the above be replaced ?

[Hog]

I would say it's worth doing all of it if it's easily accessible. The tensioner stuff is easy, as long as your driver side timing cover is off.

[B501S4]

I went with pulling the bearing cap for mine.

Can anyone verify that black RTV is adequate for sealing the cap?

Thanks

Believe both black or red rtv as long as it is for high temp. Just a nice skim coat with a dot in the corners. Does a good job for me.

[CELison]

I went with pulling the bearing cap for mine.

Can anyone verify that black RTV is adequate for sealing the cap?

Thanks

Do not use rtv for cam seals, cam plugs, tct gaskets, or half moons. Only for the valve cover gaskets and only in the corners/step portion. All the top end seals are super easy. Just take your time, double check none of the gaskets are pinched and let the rtv dry. I always let the car sit overnight before starting.

Edit: read that fast, thought you meant the cam plug.

[LJS]

Are the cam chain tensioner gaskets a lot easier to do?

Is it worth replacing the tensioner gaskets, and doing vcg without doing the cam seals? Or should all of the above be replaced ?

The tensioner gaskets can be a bit troublesome- I had to rotate my exhaust cam some 15 degs to get enough slack in the chain so I could lift up the tensioner high enough to slip out the old gasket, clean and install the new one--I had the cam bar on the other side and the crank pin on place so it was no issue getting the cam back where it should be. No laughing now- I used a vise-grip to rotate the cam.
BTW- don't over tighten the tensioner tool-it will break. Be sure you have the edge of the chain rub block caught with the tool.
Regarding the other seals-IMHO it's worthwhile to do them all at the same time. When done everything is new and leak-free for the next decade of use.
PS- if you're replacing the shaft seal with a viton one(brown) be sure to lube the seal prior to installation---If you're using an OE teflon type seal everything must be oil free--clean and dry.....

[zillarob]

I went with pulling the bearing cap for mine.

Can anyone verify that black RTV is adequate for sealing the cap?

Thanks

I dont know if I would use that on the caps.
There are some pretty critical tolerances there and they usually spec something much thinner and smoother that typical rtv.
In a pinch, loctite would prob work (the green stuff from audi smells the same to me, just a lil thicker), or some case sealer like motobond/hondabond/yamabond from a motorcycle shop.

Getting the seals out can be tough after they have been cooking and turning rock hard in there over the years.
The backyard way is to drill a small hole in the face of it, thread a pointed screw in, then pull on the screw. Be very fkn careful if you do this not to scratch the cam where the seal rides.
Going back in is easy. You can usually just push them in with your thumbs.

[4LiterBeater]

I went with pulling the bearing cap for mine.

Can anyone verify that black RTV is adequate for sealing the cap?

Thanks

Audi specifies the use of 454 300 a2. Not trying to contradict Zillarob, but they specify the use of this same material in the flat gasket and the corners of the valve cover gaskets. I would not use loctite. I used a similar product to black RTV, I think it was Victor Reinz. Do not deposit a bead of material, just enough to be tacky, and far enough away from the oil passage so it does not become clogged after torquing the cap.

[zillarob]

Wouldnt surprise me if it works fine, Im sure its been done many times before with no problem.
It does surprise me that they spec it in the 1st place though.
The gaskets are one thing, but I cant think of anything else that needs to maintain journal tolerances (case halves, cam journals, etc) that specs something like the typical black goo.

[bmwpower603]

Where is the best place to get dealership grade repair instructions for these vehicles ? Just the digital Audi repair CD? I assume there is no manual for this, since it would probably be 3000 pages long. I think I would feel better having an actual manual in front of me for peace of mind during cam chain tensioner gasket replacement. :)

Why did Audi even make a gasket under the cam chain tensioner anyways ? I assume Porsche was behind that decision. Usually chain tensioners bolt directly to the block, without the use of a gasket lol..

[4LiterBeater]

Wouldnt surprise me if it works fine, Im sure its been done many times before with no problem.
It does surprise me that they spec it in the 1st place though.
The gaskets are one thing, but I cant think of anything else that needs to maintain journal tolerances (case halves, cam journals, etc) that specs something like the typical black goo.

I remember looking into it very in depth when I tore my motor down a couple years ago, this is why I recommended make the cap tacky. It is such a precision machined part, that there should only be about 1 thou of material after crush. Just figured I would put my two cents in. If you are worried, you can use and anaerobic sealer like Loctite 574. This is the same sealer used on axle flanges, turbo flanges, and the like.

[zillarob]

I dont think they do the books like they used to. They were nice to have back in the day though.

My guess on the gaskets is because they serviceable without pulling the cams. Youd have a hard time cleaning everything up without the cams out.
Shoot, I dont even like doing the gaskets unless Im doing a tbelt because they are so hard to get nice and clean with the tbelt rear cover in the way.
And then there are the screens in there you would have to worry about clogging up.

I have also seen many asian motors that have a similar setup, but a metal 1/2moon thing and normal sealer. This seems like a decent setup.

[bmwpower603]

You make a good point here. You don’t need to remove the cams to service the tensioner. But you shouldn’t have to service the tensioner unless it shits the bed in the first place. I just think having a gasket underneath the tensioner is a design flaw. But I’m sure there is some reason for it though. I just don’t know what that reason is yet.

This is a bmw chain tensioner. E46 chasis. Which requires the cam adjuster(vanos) to be removed in order to service the tensioner. The cam sprockets need to be removed as well.. And this is a tensioner that doesn’t have any gaskets, or orings to replace in that matter.

[m_haiser]

fwiw I just did timing belt and what not, just used a flat head and a hammer to get the old seals out, then the new ones pushed nearly all the way in by hand, then used a 3/8" extension as a seal driver and tapped them flush with the head.

[zillarob]

fwiw I just did timing belt and what not, just used a flat head and a hammer to get the old seals out, then the new ones pushed nearly all the way in by hand, then used a 3/8" extension as a seal driver and tapped them flush with the head.

Maybe for the plugs on the back of the head, but you got balls if you did the seals like that

[m_haiser]

then ive got the biggest balls of them all! (AC/DC reference) in allseriousness though I did. short of maybe 1/8" they went in by hand

or do you mean my removal method? lol I was careful!

[zillarob]

Lol ya, removal. You gotta be careful to not scratch the cam where the cam seal rides or shit might get ugly