Best sway bars?

[Spike00513]

For example,
034ms vs. Hotchkis S4 (24mm hollow) rear
(isn't the 034 25.4mm solid?)

what is better?
What sayeth ye?

[Seerlah]

The thicker the bar, the better it is. With that simple principle, the 034MS is better. But what you prefer also comes into play.

I run Hotchkis front and rear on my B5. Understeer is just about completely gone (4:1 center bias), and I never knew the difference it really made till a group of Audizine guys hit back road twisties hard. This is when I really discovered what my car is capable of.

My car came with a Nuespeed rear sway bar, stock otherwise. Picked up the Hotchkis before the price hike and got them for like $430 shipped to my door brand new. At first just swapped the rear bar and noticed a difference. Added the front, and "riding on rails" was then understood. It was like the road wasn't even there, and you were literally driving on railroad tracks (I kid you not). Got so used to it now that it is like bleh.

Most would say 034 rear with stock front is the best for the B6 (more cost efficient too). Other's will say Hotchkis front and rear is the best. It is a preference thing, IMHO. I am not in it to have the rear kick out. I did it to have the car firmly planted to the pavement.

[Spike00513]

4:1 bias eh? 5spd 01A?

Yeah but which Hotchkis? They have two. An H-sport 22mm rear, and Hotchkis 'S4' 24mm I think. Well technically a third also. A huge RS4 one that most people don't get.

Did 4:1 help?
I notice people do lots of mods at the same time. I don't blame them.
However, this may make it harder to tell the difference a mod makes, before and after, if a bunch are the same time.

I was thinking I'd try 24mm Hotchkis H-sport, and then 034's if that sucks. But this also costs money and time.
Neuspeed is probably thick. Maybe 24mm solid.

I don't even know if Hotchkis front is best. What, 35mm hollow?
I think A4, S4, RS4 are 35mm solid, but that the metallurgy gets stiffer as you go up in model line.
However, as we all know, crashed RS4 part-outs are very hard to find.

Problem is that with Hotchkis H-sport, I threw away my stock parts. So if I got an 034 rear, I'd retain the Hotchkis front. Which I imagine is better than stock A4 parts.

So far, the rear doesn't kick out. But it's not neutral either. It understeers.
IDK if other mods would improve that, such as springs, shocks, coilovers, etc.

but what's easier? $3k KW coilovers, or a $150 sway bar?

[Seerlah]

Here is my suspension/drivetrain mod list (B5, so apples to oranges):

-ST coilovers (the original ones with no helper springs, 690lbs rear spring rate, with progressive fronts: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...=1#post3697072)
-Whiteline front anti-sway bar links from a WRX (B6 guys can do this mod too)
-CCP rear adjustable anti-sway bar links
-Hotchkis front and rear anti-sway bars
-034MS Street Sport motor mounts
-034MS Street Sport transmission mounts
-034MS snub mount w/bracket
-Stern Power Ring (cheap way to upgrade the rear diff mount on the B5)
-Stern poly bushings for rear diff carrier mount
-JHM solid front axles (durability thing and makes no difference compared to oem)
-JHM trio w/JHM derlin shift knob
-DIY 4:1 center diff mod

All these compliment each other and create a pretty solid vehicle. Transmission is a 5 speed 01a. I guess you would want to try different configurations to see what suits you best, as other mods affect others. But to my understanding, the 034 rear bar is the best. Though if you want a front and rear setup, then the Hotchkis is engineered to be ran together.

People who run the 034 rear bar with stock (s4?) front bar still say that is the best setup for the B6 A4. But if other mods are added (ie 4:1 center diff mod), not quite sure the same thing can be said. They may want an upgraded front bar too. Or stiffen up the suspension/drivetrain more to compliment just an 034 rear bar (no 4:1 center diff bias). Really, it still ends up being a preference thing.

[Kevin C]

I have a S4 RSB on my 2003 with stock sport springs. Just the rear S4 bar did a great job of tightening up the suspension. In my experience, it's not a good setup for a daily driver in the rain. A couple of the off / on ramps I drive have sections where the corners get a lot tighter. If your one one of those in the rain and you need to slow (traffic or your going a bit fast for conditions) the back end is going to try and come around, it only took a slight lift of the throttle. For a daily driver, that's not a good combination.

I added an H&R front bar, it's a solid bar and was just enough to balance out the S4 rear bar. The car is flatter, not quite as much fun in the dry but totally stable in the wet.
oversteer on throttle lift in traffic in wet weather will get you into trouble, it's just a matter of time.

As far as metallurgy and sway bar stiffness goes, it's not a factor. Within a family of materials ( alloy steels), the modulus of elasticity does not significantly change with alloying and the level of heat treat. Changes in sway bar and spring rates are made by changing the geometry (thickness, number of turns etc).

I did find my 2003 was a bit harsh on bumps, Koni FSD's really helped. Nice ride, feels great in the corners and wont get me in trouble in the snow and rain. I also have a dedicated set of summer and winter tires.

[Spike00513]

Here is my suspension/drivetrain mod list (B5, so apples to oranges):

-ST coilovers (the original ones with no helper springs, 690lbs rear spring rate, with progressive fronts: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...=1#post3697072)
-Whiteline front anti-sway bar links from a WRX (B6 guys can do this mod too)
-CCP rear adjustable anti-sway bar links
-Hotchkis front and rear anti-sway bars
-034MS Street Sport motor mounts
-034MS Street Sport transmission mounts
-034MS snub mount w/bracket
-Stern Power Ring (cheap way to upgrade the rear diff mount on the B5)
-Stern poly bushings for rear diff carrier mount
-JHM solid front axles (durability thing and makes no difference compared to oem)
-JHM trio w/JHM derlin shift knob
-DIY 4:1 center diff mod

[BARRY]

I have Hotchkis RS4 sways on my car (avant). rear is set to full stiff and i wouldn't have it any other way. handles like a dream isn't too stiff, nor does it do anything that any people on here say. what it does do is allow me to turn in give it gas throughout the apex and continue throttling in while turning. doesn't sound bad to me...sounds like its doing what its supposed to be doing, providing added traction in turns. when I had these on my sedan, i had 034 engine mounts and their full bushing kit. the car was able to be steered using 2 fingers and was very very very responsive to any inputs of the steering wheel. both times running KW Variant 3 Coilovers. This is with factory sized tires or my 225mm front and 245mm rear staggered setup. Sway bars when sized appropriately for their purpose will make better use of your contact patch since that's what they do. Why do you think Porsche and McLaren have "ACTIVE" roll bars that are hydraulically or 48volt controlled.

prior to installing the Hotchkis RS4 sway bars, the sedan had a factory front and RS4 rear...handling was better than factory rear, but still felt like it was not putting down a full tread of tire in the front or rear in turns. the car understeered.

everybody here will tell you don't go too big on sway bars...they're crazy...go as big as you think you need. every car i've ever built i've went big and wanted more. the RS4 Hotchkis bars are perfect for me and how I enjoy driving...aggressive, lots of grip, and response from the wheel and tires from start, mid, and end of corner.

but then again that's just me and everybody who i know who races cars. i've had one friend ask if he could borrow my A4 to take to Laguna Seca since it handles so well. the way i build cars is to go as big as possible on sway bars before bumping up spring rate. but before spring rate always invest or adjust in the dampeners...after sway bars and dampers, if you are still lacking grip then up rate your spring rate. but be careful with spring rates as rates after a specific point for the weight of your car and use will have diminishing returns. this is how you maximize grip before ruining your ride quality. in addition to this, when you up your spring rate you will also cause situations where your tire will no longer follow the road as much as it should do to deflection of the road surface. effective use of your damper and sway bars before spring rate is how you maximize overall traction in perfect and uneven road conditions.

[Fast4esT]

I’ve got H&R springs and Bilstein sports with factory front bar, 02avant sport strut brace and rs4 oem rear bar, car handles well but I still get more body roll than I expected to, could be my alignment is not right but the car does not feel all that planetes to the road and does not make me want to have much fun in the corners.

[EuroxS4]

oem rs4 rear sway bolts right on iirc

[oaybar007]

I have the 034 rear bar and installed that a few weeks before I refreshed my entire front end and suspension last spring. The car felt much more neutral around corners on stock sport suspension with the new bar. Prior, with the stock sport 18mm rear bar, the car would flex at the rear as if twisting. Mostly on my back road jaunts where there are left, right, switchback-type corners. With the 034 rear sway bar the car came around flat and very subtle.

A week later I did a full front end and suspension refresh. 034 street density full control arm kit and solid tie rod ends, plus engine and trans mounts. Koni/Eibach plus new shock mounts, spring pads, bump stops, etc. Once it all broke in and I got used to the progressive springs, the car is a dream. It drives so well in all situations without losing any refinement. Very neutral and the rear end corners flat. It's all very predictable and for a road car, perfect.

I tend to want to drive absolutely smooth in every way. Throttle input, steering input, braking, shifting, I try to be very fluid in my motions. I really wanted a smooth but capable car and that is 100% what I ended up with. Sport-luxury in that order. The car will come alive but it is very fluid and progressive.

[texasboy21]

OEM B7 RS4 is what I ran front and rear.

Huge improvement over the stock non-sport bar.

They can easily be had for cheap from a breaker, especially if you cross reference the part numbers (... why pay the 'RS' premium if you dont have to..?)

[claudiovagkraft]

On my avant I have KW V1 coilovers, the RS4 rear sway bar, and Michelin Pilot Supersport tires. This set up keeps the car pretty flat through the corners, not much body roll. I ran that for many years and was very happy. I read a lot about the Hotchkis H-sport S4 kit (front and rear bars) in this thread:

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...=1#post7522529

The discussion here did a great job in comparing different sway bar options, and convinced me on the Hotchkis.

So a couple years ago I saw the kit on Amazon drop significantly in price so I jumped on them. I sat on them for a long time (no time to install) and finally had them put on about a month or so ago. And wow, what an improvement. Even less body roll and turn in response was greatly improved. I highly recommend the hotchkis S4 kit. One thing to note - the front bar uses Hotckis bushings and places the pivot points of the bar a bit lower than the where the factory sway bar mounts. If you're running a skid plate you will probably have trouble mounting it back on after the install. I have the dieselgeek panzer plate and was not able to put it back on as originally installed. I have yet to put it back on. But I will modify it to fit, I'll need to add a couple bends to clear under the bar and mount it back to the correct mounting points. I can post pics when I do so, no gaurantee as to when that'll happen but I would like it taken care of before winter and snow hits the ground.

[BARRY]

imagine Hotchkis RS4 sway bars. it only gets better. haha...love em.

[Spike00513]

me: What's the best sway bar?

Barry: Hotchkis RS4
claudiovagkraft: oem rs4 22mm < Hotchkis S4 24mm hollow rear
texasboy21: oem B7 RS4
oaybar007: 034 rear bar (25.4mm solid?)
Fast4esT: 22mm rs4 rear, but still want more

alright
so maybe anything between 22-29mm lol

I wonder how other mods would compliment and act with sway bar choices.
Like if the car got more than just sway bars.
Such as suspension (struts & shocks), and differential upgrades. ie limited slip diffs, high-bias center Torsen, etc.
because traditionally, in a RWD car, even if the regular base-model version is offered with skinny sway bars and understeer is "engineered in", you can still make the rear step out if you try hard enough. With electronic nannies off.
Because if you gas it hard, those only 2 rear wheels spin out.

Whereas with an Audi, say the handling is more evened out, and more power is sent rearward (diffs), the front wheels can still pull (which is the point of AWD)
Not much you can easily do about having a heavy iron block placed way up front though.

It's not like the R8 which has it's V8 or V10 behind the driver.

I think the idea behind sway bars is to try and fight this, with a cheap and easy-to-install part.
It's a bit less work than designing a car from the ground up, and building a slim oiling system that allows the engine to sit lower, for lower center of gravity.

[Fast4esT]

I feel the lateral(?) twist of the car between front and rear when corning, really does not take much. I think I comprehend that as body roll as well as the feeling my body feels when cornering when intact the hood still appears pretty level over the road. One thing I have found to really help initial turn in and holding during cornering was to run a little more negative camber and toe in the front wheels, cornering has improved but tram lining has also become obnoxious, more than handling is worth in this regard. You gotta drive a b6 s4 and get a feel for those cars, I love the ways it takes highway exit and on ramps, feels well planted. but the S4 I get to sample has 255s in the rear and stock suspension.

[oaybar007]

oaybar007: 034 rear bar (25.4mm solid?)

Yes, the 034 bar is solid and hefty. It's worth noting that I also run mine on the soft setting (there are two settings) with stock end links. 034 also offers end links but after discussing my driving style with them, I decided I didn't need them.

For an Avant I love the idea of Vogtland GT1 Coilovers with those stiffer linear rear springs, plus the 034 Rear Sway Bar. Dial it in on the bar and enjoy?!

[texasboy21]

Yes, the 034 bar is solid and hefty. It's worth noting that I also run mine on the soft setting (there are two settings) with stock end links. 034 also offers end links but after discussing my driving style with them, I decided I didn't need them.

For an Avant I love the idea of Vogtland GT1 Coilovers with those stiffer linear rear springs, plus the 034 Rear Sway Bar. Dial it in on the bar and enjoy?!

This would be a VERY potent combo!

For me however, I would spend ever so slightly less on the coils and go with the Vogtland cup kit. With the extra budget you could replace all of the bump stops, shock/strut mounts, end links, and (ideally) control arms and tie rod ends. It would be a COMPLETE suspension refresh so the car should ride like new.

[Kevin C]

One thing to keep in mind is front to rear coupling is not a one size fits all. Tight autocross track? Your probably going to want more rear spring or bar to keep from plowing than you would use on a longer, faster track. Daily driver in the summer? You can have an aggressive setup and have fun.

Winter / rainy season? Keep it a bit more conservative (wanting to understeer). It not just how large a rear bar you have, it's the roll coupling front to back.

[JCB76]

Wanted some direction, I have the 034 Rear sway bar installed back in April. Car feels great, however I never changed the stock Front sway oem swaybar on my Ultrasport. At this point if very rusted and I would like to get a new bar. What does everyone recommend that would pair up with my rear bar? Buy another stock one? is there another front sway bar recommend?

thank you in adavance.

[Spike00513]

Wanted some direction, I have the 034 Rear sway bar installed back in April. Car feels great, however I never changed the stock Front sway oem swaybar on my Ultrasport. At this point if very rusted and I would like to get a new bar. What does everyone recommend that would pair up with my rear bar? Buy another stock one? is there another front sway bar recommend?

thank you in adavance.

Ran Hotchkis. It's stiffer, potentially larger, and hollow which is said to be stronger and lighter.
If I did it again, I'd do the larger rear kit.
I believe I had their A4 or S4 rear. RS4 is larger.