3.0T timing chain guides

[seanf86]

Has anyone done them yet? My 13 with 92k km (55k mi) is obviously out of warranty and I've got a half second rattle on start up more often than not, it looks like the upper chain guides is what causes the noise and I can do those with the engine in the car. I've read the TSB and see it causes no harm and there was an updated part released. I'm probably going to wait until it lasts a little longer on start up to tackle it but I just want to see if anyone else has had this happen around this mileage.

Has anyone paid to do the job? Any idea how many labour hours it pays? I read somewhere 15 hours and it doesn't look like it takes nearly that long.

[LocoLobo]

Sub'd. Also curious about this for my S4...

[JetG0ld]

I believe its the actual tensioner itself not retaining oil, so it takes a second or so to pump up fully. My car also does it for about a half second on cold start. It's definitely not an easy job, as there isn't much room back there at all. I believe either the trans would need to come out, or you would need to lean the motor back by dropping the subframe down. The combi valves are back there too, so theyre nice and in the way. I'm pretty sure I have an oil leak from my timing cover, so I'll probably try to do the tensioner when the leak gets worse.

[B8noobi3]

I got all the parts to change the driver side upper guides. Tried or attempted but was stuck at the emission control module that is located right in front of the chain cover. In order to remove this unit, the catalytic converter must be remove to access the lower bolt(Damn you Audi). To remove the cat converter is whole new job as the 3 bolt is out of reach and space is only a childs arm can fit. I’ve tackled harder jobs before but this is insane.

Without this unit blocking, i would have finished it a couple hours or less, taking my time.

[ryanj]

I just picked up a 2015 sq5 with 3 months left on the factory warranty. I noticed the chain rattle on start up and got it covered under warranty. As an (ex) VW / Audi mechanic it was hard to let somebody else do the repairs, but truth be told that job sucks and I was happy to have somebody else do it. As was mentioned before you need to drop the downpipes and cats to gain access but it can definitely be done in car. Both upper chain tensioners were replaced with the new updated versions and car has been noise free since. I believe warranty time on the job was about 12 hrs or so which translates to 18 hrs of labor out of warranty.

[seanf86]

I just picked up a 2015 sq5 with 3 months left on the factory warranty. I noticed the chain rattle on start up and got it covered under warranty. As an (ex) VW / Audi mechanic it was hard to let somebody else do the repairs, but truth be told that job sucks and I was happy to have somebody else do it. As was mentioned before you need to drop the downpipes and cats to gain access but it can definitely be done in car. Both upper chain tensioners were replaced with the new updated versions and car has been noise free since. I believe warranty time on the job was about 12 hrs or so which translates to 18 hrs of labor out of warranty.

This is exactly what I wanted to know thank! I'm going to leave it until it gets longer than a second at startup and go from there.

I'm sure I can tackle it, I've pulled my motor twice on my b5s4 and put together my own 2.7t swapped b6a4 so working in shitty situations and on stupid engine designs aren't foreign to me lol

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[vbittnv]

Still can't believe they are still having issues with these tensioners... My passenger tensioner failed on my 08 A5 3.2 and pistons met valves. It rattled for one start up and went... If you hear the noise, pay up and get this fixed immediately unless you want a boat anchor under your hood. Thats why I went and grabbed a 2.0t Q5. I know the 2.0 has its own share of issues, but at least its on the front of the engine and a piece of cake to work on and replace. Never again on the rear engine timing chain cars. Good luck!

[B8noobi3]

Still can't believe they are still having issues with these tensioners... My passenger tensioner failed on my 08 A5 3.2 and pistons met valves. It rattled for one start up and went... If you hear the noise, pay up and get this fixed immediately unless you want a boat anchor under your hood. Thats why I went and grabbed a 2.0t Q5. I know the 2.0 has its own share of issues, but at least its on the front of the engine and a piece of cake to work on and replace. Never again on the rear engine timing chain cars. Good luck!

The later v6 are somewhat updated tensioners. Will not be as catastrophic as the older models. The oil piston on the tensioner tend to lose oil pressure after an overnight of sitting. The annoying part is the 1 second rattle at morning start up. Afterward, it would be fine. I do agree these rear timing chain system is ludicrous.

[LowerJumper]

and here I thought the noise was normal on start up. next oil change we'll see what the dealer says.

[vbittnv]

The later v6 are somewhat updated tensioners. Will not be as catastrophic as the older models. The oil piston on the tensioner tend to lose oil pressure after an overnight of sitting. The annoying part is the 1 second rattle at morning start up. Afterward, it would be fine. I do agree these rear timing chain system is ludicrous.

The problem is that 1 second of rattle is 1 second of zero tension on the chain.. that initial start up is when it skips and destroys the engine.. or if it only jumps a tooth, then you can hopefully save your engine if you dont try to start it again and tow it to get fixed. Get burned once and thats enough for me.

[alphaVR]

The chains aren't as loose as you are imagining they are during the initial startup. The tensioner simply lacks full oil pressure for the first second of the engine running after sitting for some time, allowing the chain to have more slack than normal and producing the rattle you hear. This amount of flex isn't generally enough to allow the cam sprockets to jump a tooth. It's when the tensioner surface itself breaks apart that it has enough slack to potentially jump a tooth.

[BierJager]

I just picked up a 2015 sq5 with 3 months left on the factory warranty. I noticed the chain rattle on start up and got it covered under warranty. As an (ex) VW / Audi mechanic it was hard to let somebody else do the repairs, but truth be told that job sucks and I was happy to have somebody else do it. As was mentioned before you need to drop the downpipes and cats to gain access but it can definitely be done in car. Both upper chain tensioners were replaced with the new updated versions and car has been noise free since. I believe warranty time on the job was about 12 hrs or so which translates to 18 hrs of labor out of warranty.

Was there ever a production year where these updated tensioners were installed from the factory and if so, are you aware of the year?

[ryanj]

I believe late 2015 is when the new updated tensioners started going in all of the 3.0t's

[superman_006]

Anyone know if there was a TSB on this?

[ryanj]

Anyone know if there was a TSB on this?

Yes there is. This one is slightly older I know it was revised to include 2015's as well but cant find it at the moment:



Technical Service Bulletin
15 Engine rattling noises at cold start - V6 3.0 TFSI
15 15 26 2039995/1 March 3, 2015.
Model(s) Year VIN Range Vehicle-Specific Equipment
All 2011 - 2014 All V6 3.0 TFSI

Condition
Rattling noises are heard from the timing chain drive for about 1-3 seconds after the first engine start of the day.

Technical Background
The noises are caused by one of the upper chain tensioners. The noises do not lead to damage.

Production Solution
Improved chain tensioner.

Service
1. Verify condition by observing engine sound during cold start.
2. If the rattling noise comes from the area of the timing chains (back of the engine) for 1-3 seconds after the first start of the day, replace both upper chain tensioners of bank 1 and bank 2 with the optimized chain tensioners.

Technical Service Bulletin Warranty
Claim Type: Use applicable claim type. If vehicle is outside any warranty, this Technical Service Bulletin is informational only.

Service Number: 1536

Damage Code: 0010

Labor Operations: Chain tensioner remove+reinstall (See Elsa for SRT specific to model) 1536 20XX XX TU

Diagnostic Time: GFF No allowance 0 TU

Road test prior to service procedure 0121 0002 10 TU

Road test after service procedure 0121 0004 10 TU

Technical diagnosis at dealer’s discretion
(Refer to Section 2.2.1.2 and Audi Warranty Online for DADP allowance details)

Claim Comment: As per TSB #2039995/1
All warranty claims submitted for payment must be in accordance with the Audi Warranty Policies and Procedures Manual. Claims are subject to review or audit by Audi Warranty.

Required Parts and Tools

Part Number Part Description Quantity
06E109217AH Chain tensioner bank 2 1
06E109218AJ Chain tensioner bank 1 1

Additional Information
All parts and service references provided in this TSB (2039995) are subject to change and/or removal. Always check with your Parts Department and service manuals for the latest information.

[superman_006]

Thanks

[John_Kaufmann]

My dealer said "that's what they do". They all sound like that.

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[Probmxstyle]

My 2015 SQ5 is currently in the shop having both tensioners replaced.

[SQive]

My 2015 SQ5 is currently in the shop having both tensioners replaced.

At what mileage?

[Probmxstyle]

At what mileage?

28k miles. Mine wasn't that bad sounding, maybe 1-2 seconds on start-up, but they are changing them out anyway.

[zachf88]

My dealer told me it was normal and Audi has said no damage can be caused by the rattle.

[SQive]

28k miles. Mine wasn't that bad sounding, maybe 1-2 seconds on start-up, but they are changing them out anyway.

I have 56K, double yours, and haven't noticed anything like that.

[vbittnv]

My dealer told me it was normal and Audi has said no damage can be caused by the rattle.

Thats crap, your chain has little tension at start up and it hitting the chain covers and slapping against the plastic guides. That's what the noise is... do you think that can possibly be good for the engine? My rattle ( that audi said wont cause damage) eventually cracked a couple guides ( because the chain has little tension at start up and slaps against them) causing enough slack in the chain to jump teeth and take out the engine. Piston meet valves. When it was disassembled, the guides were all cracked, some missing, the inside of the cam covers were all scored up with metal shavings from the chain scraping against it... There is NO WAY that anyone should say that is acceptable.. only the dealers who don't want to pay for a brutal repair bill or a couple people that are just stubborn at trying to prove they know more. The chain tensioners on the 4.2, 3.2 , and 3.0 , heck even the 2.0 even tho is a totally different design are problematic and are a ticking time bomb. If you are under warranty use the tsb and find another dealer if you have to and get them fixed.

[SteelCity_S4]

went through this same BS on my b6 S4. Had horrible rattle at startup so swallowed a bullet and had the timing chain guides replaced. Did not have the tools or garage at time to do it. Cost me a pretty penny. Audi needs to seriously look at this issue and consider a major overhaul of their design. Am I understanding correctly that unless your car is in warranty this wont be replaced as a recall etc?

[jackhammer909]

there is a megathread on the problem in the S4 forum, https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...rt-V6-3-0-TFSI

[SteelCity_S4]

I am not by any means a legal aficionado but at what point does something like this become a class action suit against Audi? This probably pertains more to me because I have owned a 2004 S4 with timing chain tensioner guide failure (cracking). Had it replaced which was a huge expense and now I have a 2014 SQ5 and 10 years later design hasn't changed a bit? Heres a few pics from my B6 S4 with around 70k miles on it. These are from roughly 5 years ago before I sold the car. Last picture in center, black guide completely broken.

image7.jpegimage1.JPGimage221.jpeg

[Probmxstyle]

My car was at the dealer for almost a month getting them replaced. Guessing since its an involved job and its warranty work. Got the car back yesterday and it was towed back 2 hours later due to a coolant leak from somewhere on the front of the motor. Hose clamp maybe? Also noticed a new ding in the front driver fender that wasn't there before.

[SteelCity_S4]

I noticed there hasnt been any posts on here in awhile but I am really starting to notice the rattle at startup on my 2014 SQ5. The tensioner guides are not a recall or anything correct? As mentioned above, I went through this same BS on my 2004 S4, 10 years later on my 2014 SQ5 they are still having this same problem? At what point is this a design/engineering flaw?? My car is out of warranty, 70k miles... what would you all do?

[turbophreak]

My personal opinion? Live with it, unless you plan on keeping your car for another 100k miles. Went through the replacement with my S4 under warranty. Car was at the dealer for over a month. When I did get it back the rattle was gone but just by virtue of nearly taking the engine out to replace the tensioners new squeaks and other odd noises started to appear. Just like any major surgery it was never the same after. And eventually my tensioner rattle came back which was also reported by many others who had the tensioners replaced. Audi hasn't gotten this problem corrected yet in my opinion. I hope my B9 SQ5 doesn't end up with the rattle but I know one thing, I definitely will not be replacing the chain tensioners to fix it. Just my 2 cents.

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[Whinny SQ5]

I recently payed to have the tensioners replaced on the S5. The rattle is completely gone! The dealership that did the work did not drop the engine or transmission. They just took the exhaust off along with a few other things.

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[SteelCity_S4]

I recently payed to have the tensioners replaced on the S5. The rattle is completely gone! The dealership that did the work did not drop the engine or transmission. They just took the exhaust off along with a few other things.

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How much did the job set you back? I am curious especially having this done at the dealership.. Pm me if you don't wish to post publicly.

[PNW Avant]

Inquire with Audi on an extended warranty sold by them. You will pay just as much for that warranty as you would for the chain job out of pocket. And then you're covered if the thing ACTUALLY fails eventually. And everything else that could go wrong with the car in the mean time. It really depends on how long you plan to keep the car.

I read up on this issue. I haven't read a single thread of any car jumping timing or tensioner/guide snapping, or chain snapping. Just complaints from owners of new-ish cars telling audi their car shouldnt sound like that. So they fixed it.

[vocabsr]

I recently payed to have the tensioners replaced on the S5. The rattle is completely gone! The dealership that did the work did not drop the engine or transmission. They just took the exhaust off along with a few other things.

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I'm also interested in how much this services cost if you don't mind. Thanks

[Whinny SQ5]

I'm also interested in how much this services cost if you don't mind. Thanks

I don't mind at all. It was right around $2,600, but I got a bit of a discount so I spent a little over $2,300.

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[Big_Joe]

I just removed the engine last night from my 11 S4 for a rattle coming from the back of the engine. what nightmare to remove. I have access to a hoist and it took me 8 hours and I am a diesel mechanic. maybe I'm use to more space lol

[vocabsr]

I don't mind at all. It was right around $2,600, but I got a bit of a discount so I spent a little over $2,300.

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when i'm driving and the rpm are around 2k or higher it kind of sounds like and diesel engine. Is this the noise you experienced before getting the tensioners replaced?

[djn876]

The noise people here are referring to is on cold start only, and it only lasts about 1 second. Can you post a video of what you are hearing?

What engine do you have?

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[Whinny SQ5]

when i'm driving and the rpm are around 2k or higher it kind of sounds like and diesel engine. Is this the noise you experienced before getting the tensioners replaced?

Like Djn876 said... The noise only happened during startup and lasted for about a second.

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[vocabsr]

This is a video of the noise. It sounds like a diesel or like a gurgling noise. You probably should listen with headphones on if you can.

[turbophreak]

This is a video of the noise. It sounds like a diesel or like a gurgling noise. You probably should listen with headphones on if you can.

Definitely not the same noise. Chain tensioner noise was only during start up and for 1 to 3 seconds max. Sounded like a playing card in bicycle spokes going around 5 mph but for only a few seconds and it would stop immediately after. Doesn't mean the noise in your vid isn't the chain tensioners, just not the same noise for sure. Could be a chain guide maybe but I'd imagine you'd hear that at most rpms if that failed. And yours sounds very metallic if I'm hearing it correctly, chain guides are plastic afaik.

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