The official 4.0T charge cooler pump thread

[c13thx]

https://tecomotive.com/store/en/bund...-3-adapter-kit

For anyone across the water like myself (UK)

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[Clipse3GT]

Anyone getting this code after installing the mercedes CWA 100 pump? Softcodes sets after installing the CWA 100 pump. Not sure if anyone else is getting this with the pump.

Monday,17,June,2019,22:13:16:21272
VCDS Version: Release 19.6.0 (x64) Running on Windows 8 x64
www.Ross-Tech.com

Address 01: Engine Labels: 06E-907-551-CGW.clb
Control Module Part Number: 4G0 906 014 D HW: 4H0 906 014
Component and/or Version: 4.0l V8TFSI / H63 0001
Software Coding: 0A2500326546010E3000
Work Shop Code: WSC 00000 000 00000
ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM40TFS0114G0906014D 001001 (AU57)
ROD: EV_ECM40TFS0114G0906014D.rod
VCID: 2345981E2A86E057A8-8076
1 Fault Found:

12352 - Coolant Pump for Intercooler
P023A 00 [039] - Open Circuit
Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 80468 km
Date: 2019.06.17
Time: 22:05:46

Engine speed: 649.00 /min
Normed load value: 5.9 %
Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
Coolant temperature: 95 °C
Intake air temperature: 64 °C
Ambient air pressure: 970 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 13.640 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Engine status: COENG_RUNNING
Engine status-Test_Program_Co Eng st COMPU VERB UBYTE: 3


Readiness: 1110 1100

[tabio42]

Did you do the 100% mod? That causes the code.


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[Clipse3GT]

Did you do the 100% mod? That causes the code.


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Hmm, I just got a harness from bhamcarnut I assumed it was controlled like stock system meaning it was variable. Maybe his patch cable does not have the signal wire hooked up to force the 100% duty cycle. I will send him an email and verify. Any issue running at 100% beside the soft code? I assume the AMG and BMW cars run these pumps at 100%.

[tabio42]

No issue. The pump will still run for 5+ years. All pumps degrade slightly with use but these pumps are durable.


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[Chiromikey]

Hmm, I just got a harness from bhamcarnut I assumed it was controlled like stock system meaning it was variable. Maybe his patch cable does not have the signal wire hooked up to force the 100% duty cycle. I will send him an email and verify. Any issue running at 100% beside the soft code? I assume the AMG and BMW cars run these pumps at 100%.

AMGs do not run their pumps continuously. They run an almost identically flawed system right down to married engine coolant lines, undersized intercooler, and an ECU that only turns the pump on after the IATs are already getting too hot.

[The Infiltrator]

Lots of part numbers and info, but very little on temps and logs.

Can people with this pump post their logs since it's now warmer outside and this would be a good time to see if this pump does very much please?!

I will get the Mercracing HX and looking at pump options. SRM has one but I don't need that power on a stock tune or stage 2 when I go that route.

[kaploww]

Lots of part numbers and info, but very little on temps and logs.

Can people with this pump post their logs since it's now warmer outside and this would be a good time to see if this pump does very much please?!

I will get the Mercracing HX and looking at pump options. SRM has one but I don't need that power on a stock tune or stage 2 when I go that route.

If you live anywhere with ambient temps greater than 70F you do.

The stock system is atrocious, and can not maintain consistent IAT’s. It heat soaks very quickly, and pulls significant amounts of timing.

It is an extraordinarily reactive system. By the time it is running at full capacity it is too late.

[The Infiltrator]

If you live anywhere with ambient temps greater than 70F you do.

The stock system is atrocious, and can not maintain consistent IAT’s. It heat soaks very quickly, and pulls significant amounts of timing.

It is an extraordinarily reactive system. By the time it is running at full capacity it is too late.

Do you have any IAT data logs on stock vs the CWA100? No one seems to have it...

[Dasquade]

I think the issue is most dont have a permant IAT gauge they can read off/log. Altough there is a general line in the IAT raising/lowering, it is also influenced by several other parameters (day ambiant temp, pulls but mostly traffic jams or even a stop in between). Especially if you made a stop and had the car rest a bit, heat soak enters the coolant system/hardware and the stock system is having a hard time cooling back down the IAT's. But i blame this big time on the stock pump not running at 100%.

Anyway, still havent had time to install my pump (but now the ambiant temps are raising, i see it is needed). Luckly i have a constant mmi display gauges where i can keep an eye on several parameters inclusing IAT after the charge cooler. I will try to install it asap (just hope my harnass it okey and i dont run into install issues but normally got everything covered).
Also have an ampere gauge i will be running on the harnass so i have a backup to check if pump is working (drain power) because with the signal wire "cut" there is no safety feature left to warn me. Planning to install a relay switch on the signal wire that gets input from button on steeringwheel to be able to run it in stock behavior or 100% mode.

[kaploww]

I have done some initial testing.

Both tests performed at 58F ambient.

Same tune.

2013 S6, 22psi, SRM800 Turbos.

Stock vs. MERC racing HX, and CWA100.

CWA50 (Stock Pump)/HX = Max IAT’s 140F at the end of 1/4 mile pull. 190ish at the end of a 1/2 mile pull.
CWA100/MERC racing HX = Max IAT of 114F at the end of a 1/4 mile pull. No data for 1/2 mile. (I didn’t continue to pull)

Keep in mind these are larger turbos. IAT’s for stock turbo vehicles will be higher at similar boost pressures due to the increased drive pressure/turbine speed/compressor speed required to produce similar boost pressures resulting in the smaller stock compressors being off their peak efficiency islands in the compressor maps.

[Dasquade]

I think pulls are one thing, but i think the most gain will (hopefully) be in recovering after a pull. The moment you go slow throttle the coolant pump goes into "limp" mode and only running at 10% and hardly use the stock or upgraded cooler.

[s4nicetry]

AMGs do not run their pumps continuously. They run an almost identically flawed system right down to married engine coolant lines, undersized intercooler, and an ECU that only turns the pump on after the IATs are already getting too hot.

I don't doubt it with their turbo and SC cars but don't some of the NA AMG's use this pump as well? I've heard the SLS AMG uses it as a main system pump. If this is true you would think the pump would be running at a higher load pretty much constantly.

[s4nicetry]

I have done some initial testing.

Both tests performed at 58F ambient.

Same tune.

2013 S6, 22psi, SRM800 Turbos.

Stock vs. MERC racing HX, and CWA100.

CWA50 (Stock Pump)/HX = Max IAT’s 140F at the end of 1/4 mile pull. 190ish at the end of a 1/2 mile pull.
CWA100/MERC racing HX = Max IAT of 114F at the end of a 1/4 mile pull. No data for 1/2 mile. (I didn’t continue to pull)

Keep in mind these are larger turbos. IAT’s for stock turbo vehicles will be higher at similar boost pressures due to the increased drive pressure/turbine speed/compressor speed required to produce similar boost pressures resulting in the smaller stock compressors being off their peak efficiency islands in the compressor maps.

Some great results, did you divorce the charge system and are you using the stock pwm control or did you snip the signal to the pump?

[kaploww]

Stock PWM.

Both tests were also started at an initial IAT of 98 degrees.

Non-divorces setup

[s4nicetry]

Stock PWM.

Both tests were also started at an initial IAT of 98 degrees.

Non-divorces setup

Big improvement, I wonder how much more could be gained (if any) from divorcing the system.

[Chiromikey]

Big improvement, I wonder how much more could be gained (if any) from divorcing the system.

The true gains from divorcing the systems are from the added capacity of the reservoir used. There’s very little if any mixing taking place and the joined system is for the ease of filling and bleeding. So if anyone is going through the trouble of a divorced system, fit a proper reservoir to see measurable gains, not just a filler tube that doesn’t add any significant coolant capacity.

[15 Phantom S6]

The true gains from divorcing the systems are from the added capacity of the reservoir used. There’s very little if any mixing taking place and the joined system is for the ease of filling and bleeding. So if anyone is going through the trouble of a divorced system, fit a proper reservoir to see measurable gains, not just a filler tube that doesn’t add any significant coolant capacity.

My understanding is that divorcing the system will reduce the coolant pressure on the turbocharger coolant loop which will allow our "intercooler" (one in the engine bay) to last longer as it is prone to failing under the sustained high pressure created by the system over time.. Totally agreed that additional coolant is a major help and a big factor when trying to upgrade the cooling system.

Ialready have the additional reservoir from the AMS cooling system and I plan to get the reservoir from SRM to add even more coolant capacity. I like that both the AMS and SRM reservoirs are in the engine bay so that a long run of lines and a box full of coolant in the trunk is not required like in other platforms. This along with upgrading the stock coolant pump should help alot.. I'm going to runs logs and test how high my IAT's rise once I clear up a few things..

[tabio42]

My understanding is that divorcing the system will reduce the coolant pressure on the turbocharger coolant loop which will allow our "intercooler" (one in the engine bay) to last longer as it is prone to failing under the sustained high pressure created by the system over time.. Totally agreed that additional coolant is a major help and a big factor when trying to upgrade the cooling system.

Ialready have the additional reservoir from the AMS cooling system and I plan to get the reservoir from SRM to add even more coolant capacity. I like that both the AMS and SRM reservoirs are in the engine bay so that a long run of lines and a box full of coolant in the trunk is not required like in other platforms. This along with upgrading the stock coolant pump should help alot.. I'm going to runs logs and test how high my IAT's rise once I clear up a few things..

In addition to adding longevity to the pump, lowering the pressure in the system will allow your pump to flow more liquid.


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[ZTM pearl]

Hiya Hofa & crew, thanks for the thread. I'm just going to parachute into this with my first post, please be gentle with me. I perused the tecomotive website and was impressed with how clearly it was set out and the information available, so I emailed a bunch of questions and this is the reply......

Hello Greg,

That is quite a bunch of questions. :-)
Let me see if I can work trough them one by one.

- Is a bigger pump desirable or essential? -
Overall ... not Audi specific ...
We found that the bigger pumps (CWA200-400) are not bringing down
intercooler temperatures more significantly than for instance a CWA100.
So starting with a CWA50 you can certainly upgrade to a CWA100 but
anything bigger would not make a huge difference.

- Do I need tiny or is the S7 control stuff ok? -
That is the big question we also can not answer. That is why we sell the
adapter kit as "experimental".
But maybe the Audi community can answer that question.

- Would I be better off with tiny? -
The advantage of the tinyCWA is that you can control all the CWA pumps.
The disadvantage is that it is more work to install.

- What should I get, the adapter kit to CWA100-3, or the 100-3 plus tiny? -
You can certainly try the adapter kit. If its not working you have the
option to run the pump at full speed all the time or to buy a tinyCWA
kit afterwards.

- Is the CWA100-3 the best choice? -
If you want the cars ECU to control the pump then the CWA100-3 is best
choice because it has the highest chance of working out of the box.
If you want to run the pump just at full speed then the CWA100-2 is also
a viable option. Or maybe even two .. Or two CWA50 ... Whatever
intercooler setup you like to use/want to build.

- How does the CWA100-3 compare with whatever it is that the RS7 has? -
We are no Audi experts. But I would guess the stock cars have the CWA50
maybe..
So the CWA100-3 would be a simple to do upgrade.
But maybe the Audi community knows more here, too.
If you are unsure you can send me the part number of the RS7 pump .. I
should be able to check what pump it is.

Hope that helps.

If you have any more questions just let me know.

Kind Regards,
Tobias Mucke

Tiny is an experimental control module they offer. I suspect it's not very big. Clearly, I found Tobias to be very approachable and helpful. Getting information from quite a few other sources was like trying to get blood out of stone. I have ordered a CWA100-3 Pierburg pump and adaptor to go with my Merc Racing quad pass heat exchanger ($US 369) and meth injection. I have an S7 on which I am about to commit multiple atrocities including but not limited to 4mm oversize RS7 SRM turbos from Eurocode ($2044 USD), SRM intake pipes ($US805 from Eurocode), decat downpipes from RM Motors in Poland ($AUS910), Akra exhaust is already fitted and stage 3 tune will be by Trent, etuners, Sydney. Currently running with ABT piggy-back module (397 Kw) which cannot be adapted and which I will be flogging off. All comments gratefully accepted, (except the obvious one that my post was dropped from a height rather than introduced, and has too much irrelevant crap in it). Regards, ZTM Pearl. (which is short for Autoflex ZTM hypershift pearl, another planned atrocity).

[bajan01]

Not 4.0T but...

Just and FYI that I purchased and tested a CWA100-3 and harness from Tobias at Tecomotive and have been running it on my SQ5 without any problems for many months now.

[The Infiltrator]

Hiya Hofa & crew, thanks for the thread. I'm just going to parachute into this with my first post, please be gentle with me. I perused the tecomotive website and was impressed with how clearly it was set out and the information available, so I emailed a bunch of questions and this is the reply......

Hello Greg,

That is quite a bunch of questions. :-)
Let me see if I can work trough them one by one.

- Is a bigger pump desirable or essential? -
Overall ... not Audi specific ...
We found that the bigger pumps (CWA200-400) are not bringing down
intercooler temperatures more significantly than for instance a CWA100.
So starting with a CWA50 you can certainly upgrade to a CWA100 but
anything bigger would not make a huge difference.

- Do I need tiny or is the S7 control stuff ok? -
That is the big question we also can not answer. That is why we sell the
adapter kit as "experimental".
But maybe the Audi community can answer that question.

- Would I be better off with tiny? -
The advantage of the tinyCWA is that you can control all the CWA pumps.
The disadvantage is that it is more work to install.

- What should I get, the adapter kit to CWA100-3, or the 100-3 plus tiny? -
You can certainly try the adapter kit. If its not working you have the
option to run the pump at full speed all the time or to buy a tinyCWA
kit afterwards.

- Is the CWA100-3 the best choice? -
If you want the cars ECU to control the pump then the CWA100-3 is best
choice because it has the highest chance of working out of the box.
If you want to run the pump just at full speed then the CWA100-2 is also
a viable option. Or maybe even two .. Or two CWA50 ... Whatever
intercooler setup you like to use/want to build.

- How does the CWA100-3 compare with whatever it is that the RS7 has? -
We are no Audi experts. But I would guess the stock cars have the CWA50
maybe..
So the CWA100-3 would be a simple to do upgrade.
But maybe the Audi community knows more here, too.
If you are unsure you can send me the part number of the RS7 pump .. I
should be able to check what pump it is.

Hope that helps.

If you have any more questions just let me know.

Kind Regards,
Tobias Mucke

Tiny is an experimental control module they offer. I suspect it's not very big. Clearly, I found Tobias to be very approachable and helpful. Getting information from quite a few other sources was like trying to get blood out of stone. I have ordered a CWA100-3 Pierburg pump and adaptor to go with my Merc Racing quad pass heat exchanger ($US 369) and meth injection. I have an S7 on which I am about to commit multiple atrocities including but not limited to 4mm oversize RS7 SRM turbos from Eurocode ($2044 USD), SRM intake pipes ($US805 from Eurocode), decat downpipes from RM Motors in Poland ($AUS910), Akra exhaust is already fitted and stage 3 tune will be by Trent, etuners, Sydney. Currently running with ABT piggy-back module (397 Kw) which cannot be adapted and which I will be flogging off. All comments gratefully accepted, (except the obvious one that my post was dropped from a height rather than introduced, and has too much irrelevant crap in it). Regards, ZTM Pearl. (which is short for Autoflex ZTM hypershift pearl, another planned atrocity).

Nice. I'll be looking forward to your IAT logs. Will you test the pump and HX before upgrading the turbos and W/M?

[ZTM pearl]

Thanks Inf. To minimize cost everything is being put on together, so the only useful info will be the end result. Also I have to work out how to get IATs.
(It's all been started because it squeals when warm and the oil filler cap is stuck down with a big vacuum and the squeal stops when the cap is wrenched off and the PCV is a recognized problem. Any excuse is better than none. Hope that's not too off topic, I understand that's a sin).
BTW, how is your pump controlled or is it on continuously ? Thanks.

[ZTM pearl]

Sorry, that question about control of the pump should have been for bajan01

[kebabman]

Not even an hour. All you have to do is remove the tire, and the lower fender liner (If i can remember correctly 2 screws underneath 2 screws in the fenderwell and 2 push connectors) I used two pairs of vice grips to clamp off the coolant hoses and a 10 mm wrench to remove the pump bracket. Total time was maybe 45min. That was with me having to redo the harness connector. Very easy and straight forward.


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All I can say to this is LOL. I just changed the CWA-50 to a CWA-100 on my RS7 and like f**k did it take 30mins. Sure the pump is easy to access via the wheel well, but damn that stupid split clamp is a pain and the two coolant hose clamps are even worse. The top one wasn’t so bad but the back one you have like zero access to and of course the hose clamp was facing away from the wheel well. Anyway, I managed it after much cursing, I may just be inept, but for me it was more like a 1.5-2hr job all told.

Probably didn’t help that it’s 95F outside.

[bajan01]

Sorry, that question about control of the pump should have been for bajan01

Mine is controlled the same way as the factory CWA50. I did not modify the wiring for it to run continuously like others have done.

[kebabman]

What do I have to log in VCDS to see the duty cycle of the pump? Want to check it’s working after my ham-fisted install.

[V10Jon]

For those who have installed already. Are you just clamping the coolant lines, disconnecting, then replacing the pump? Are you trying to purge the system or just hookup and go?

I may have missed it, but didn’t see a install guide posted yet.

Thanks!

[kebabman]

For those who have installed already. Are you just clamping the coolant lines, disconnecting, then replacing the pump? Are you trying to purge the system or just hookup and go?

I may have missed it, but didn’t see a install guide posted yet.

Thanks!

I clamped the top hose, you can’t really clamp the rear hose because there’s not enough room to get a clamp in there. I’d say I lost about 4-500ml of coolant total which was more unpleasant to get on my hands than anything else (horrible greasy shit). I used a vacuum bleed kit to refill the system with what I lost so no big deal.

[TruS4]

Screenshot_20190722-195133_Facebook.jpg

Run 1 i sat at light to heat soak (multi gear pull) , Run 2 i was rolling (multi gear pull), Run 3 i sat at light to heat soak-this was a sport mode dig but for some reason it shifts low on its on (multi gear pull). Screenshot of the conditions. This is likely the hottest day of the last 3-5 years here and we are on a govt heat advisory. Logs will be below this image. Great delta and limited temp rise

Stg 1 tune, MercRacing, divorced with 95% distilled water and 5% purple ice, CWA100 pump, c7.5 s6

Run 1

https://datazap.me/u/demarcomsu/log-run-1?log=0&data=0


Run 2

https://datazap.me/u/demarcomsu/run-...data=0-1-2-7-8



Run 3

https://datazap.me/u/demarcomsu/run-...0&mark=115-116

Run from this morning 90F ambient

https://datazap.me/u/demarcomsu/2-ge...data=0-1-2-7-8

[TruS4]

Ps these are worst possible conditions and are max for the system imo. I did logs in 80F ambient, temps started at 60c and actually dropped to 54c on WOT 2 gear pull. Thats what I typically see in "normal weather ", a drop in temps on pulls

[Hofahome]

Screenshot_20190722-195133_Facebook.jpg

Run 1 i sat at light to heat soak (multi gear pull) , Run 2 i was rolling (multi gear pull), Run 3 i sat at light to heat soak-this was a sport mode dig but for some reason it shifts low on its on (multi gear pull). Screenshot of the conditions. This is likely the hottest day of the last 3-5 years here and we are on a govt heat advisory. Logs will be below this image. Great delta and limited temp rise

Stg 1 tune, MercRacing, divorced with 95% distilled water and 5% purple ice, CWA100 pump, c7.5 s6

Run 1

https://datazap.me/u/demarcomsu/log-run-1?log=0&data=0


Run 2

https://datazap.me/u/demarcomsu/run-...data=0-1-2-7-8



Run 3

https://datazap.me/u/demarcomsu/run-...0&mark=115-116

Run from this morning 90F ambient

https://datazap.me/u/demarcomsu/2-ge...data=0-1-2-7-8

Thank you for posting. Are you running the pump at 100% all the time?


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[nvygw171]

With the bassakward way Audi designed the cooling system is the IATS will always be hot cruising around until the throttle blade opens and allows for the pump/heat exchanger to work. The air just kinda sits in there and heat soaks behind the blade separated from the cooling system. I see they same drop in IAT under throttle. This is with both EMP and factory CWA verified at 100%. I can rapidly cool my IAT’s by applying light throttle to open up the throttle blade while cruising in between highway pulls.

[TruS4]

Thank you for posting. Are you running the pump at 100% all the time?


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Sorry yeah pump at 100%

[TruS4]

With the bassakward way Audi designed the cooling system is the IATS will always be hot cruising around until the throttle blade opens and allows for the pump/heat exchanger to work. The air just kinda sits in there and heat soaks behind the blade separated from the cooling system. I see they same drop in IAT under throttle. This is with both EMP and factory CWA verified at 100%. I can rapidly cool my IAT’s by applying light throttle to open up the throttle blade while cruising in between highway pulls.

I use to run 2 pumps (non s4, similar system) and the signal wire was tied into oem fans. When I turned on fans, temps dropped, assuming the oem fans were turning on. Kinda cool

[Dozer88]

Check this one out, I think it's new from this guy,

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In for this, hes been very helpful so far and +1 for a great price.
Will report back once complete. *With absolutely no scientific data, sorry fellas not my thing

[Dasquade]

With the bassakward way Audi designed the cooling system is the IATS will always be hot cruising around until the throttle blade opens and allows for the pump/heat exchanger to work. The air just kinda sits in there and heat soaks behind the blade separated from the cooling system. I see they same drop in IAT under throttle. This is with both EMP and factory CWA verified at 100%. I can rapidly cool my IAT’s by applying light throttle to open up the throttle blade while cruising in between highway pulls.

That is indeed a very correct approche on it.....applying gas = boosting turbo = sucking in more fresh cold air and that definatly explains the 'big' IAT drops since ambient air is much cooler then the heat inside the piping. A better chart would be adding 'pre charge cooler IAT' as those tell a bigger story and tune depending. Still haven't installed mine, and some times i do wonder how much real effect it will have....but it must have effect. Even if your coolant water temp is high it still absorbs heat from the pre charge cooled air (witch is especially after heat soak entered HIGH).

[TruS4]

Folks begged for logs..no one person has anything to say now lmaooooo

[kebabman]

Folks begged for logs..no one person has anything to say now lmaooooo

I’m happy to do some logs with the CWA-100 I just fitted to my RS7, standard charge cooler for now until I fit the MercRacing HX. I have a rosstech cable someone just needs to explain how / what I need to log.

[Chiromikey]

Folks begged for logs..no one person has anything to say now lmaooooo

Pretty sure I just read a FB post that claimed his cwa100, merc h/e, and divorced system didn’t improve his oat logs much but of course I can’t find it now.