B8.5 A4 Q5 Brake Upgrade 320 vs 345

[muffinman92]

Hello,

I have been looking into doing the oem bbk upgrade on my B8.5 Allroad, and I am torn between simply upgrading the front calipers to the Q5 2.0T 320mm Calipers or going with the Q5 3.0T 345 mm Calipers and Rotors. I haven't found anyone really review the 320mm calipers, so I am curious if it is truly worth the cash to go the 345mm route. Do the 320mm add any type of performance upgrade? I do not track the car but I do enjoy going fast (K04) and doing some spirited driving. Anyone able to give some advice? The 320mm calipers run about $350 while the full 345mm setup runs around $1k.

Thanks for any help!

[Reciprocity]

the 320mm calipers are identical to the ones already on your car, so they wouldn't be an improvement.

the 4 pot 345's are super expensive so i went with A6/7 356mm calipers, whole setup with pads rotors and calipers came out to 250 total

[mortimersnerd]

One issue with 4 pots is the calipers may not be well matched to the master cylinder, resulting in a mushy pedal. I went with a s4 swap that's I'm quite happy with.

[muffinman92]

Thanks for the quick responses. I figured there had to be a reason why no one really posts about the 320mm set up.

How do you like the A6/A7 calipers? Are they brembo or just larger?

[Reciprocity]

I just threw them on yesterday but so far they're a massive upgrade from the stock brakes. They are only 2 piston vs 4 in the 345mm setup but I don't feel a difference at all. Only problem is the caliper is absolutely massive so your wheels might not clear!

[Poodini]

Well, I went the 320 mm route and I can say that it’s definitely an improvement from stock for sure. You’re essentially going from a one piston 282 piston front brake system so you’re getting more even wear as well as overall better pad distribution on to the caliper. I don’t track the car as it’s my daily driver so I just wanted a moderate upgrade without breaking the bank and this definitely fit the bill! The other nice thing is that you don’t have to switch out the rotors given the 320’s fit on our OE setup. So if your rotors still have considerable life on them, a thorough cleaning and double check for any warping and you’re golden! I went with Centric Posi-Quiet pads up front and Akebono pads in the rear. ECS stainless steel lines all around, good quality brake fluid, got the Schwaben mini fluid pump kit which worked great so you can do a one person bleed. Happy with how they turned out.
As for performance, it’s not as if you tap on the brakes and suddenly you’re head-butting the windshield type of stoppage. I’d say it’s a subtle but appreciable steady stopping power. With the OEM calipers, if I were going pretty fast and had to really stop, I have to basically slam that pedal to the floor. Even then, I still felt like gosh it definitely needs more. The 320s feels more reassured but you still gotta get on it early. It just feels like it took at least that element of “ oh oh, I don’t have any more leeway to push that pedal down any further!”
I can’t speak for the 345 mm calipers since I never set those up on my car. Based on what others have posted in the past, stands to reason that it would be the logical next step up versus the 320 mm. How much more so? Couldn’t really tell you. If I had to do it over again, I’d keep my eyes out for a used set of 345’s. So long as they aren’t damaged/leaking, I’d have them sand blasted, powder coated, and new caliper kit for the gaskets done.by replacing the gaskets. It stands to reason that if given a choice and money isn’t s big factor, you’ld have to go with the 345s. It basically comes down to your wallet and what you’re trying to achieve. If you’re planning to track the car want something with really substantial power to stop on a dime? If that’s your answer then definitely the 345‘s. If you’re more like me, just puttin’ around town, commuting, running errands, heading out of town on a rare occasion for a weekend getaway, then the 320s are definitely serviceable imho.
Here’s how mine came out.



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[Reciprocity]

oh wow didn't even know Audi made 320mm 4 pots....I'm learning something new every day! Are those red wheel bolts or caps?

[khj677turbo]

Also running the 320 calipers. Its a great budget upgrade. Utilizes the same rotor size and lines. Dust shields I think may need to be considered or you can bend them a bit.
Just last night I had to really stand on my brakes to avoid crossing an intersection while an emergency vehicle was crossing through unexpectedly. These guys really grip, there is no doubt about it.
If you are worried about filling the wheel well, then maybe consider the 345's or larger. But from normal standing angle, the 320's definitely have more presence than the stock single pot.

[hardfive]

Porsche Macan brakes are the same as the Q5 345mm calipers and can be had for 225 each from various Porsche parts dealers online. They come in a flat black and say Porsche but can easily be repainted. ECS sells a pair of S4 345mm rotors for 100, and obviously they carry more expensive options. Nothing other then brake pads needed. Could put together 2 rotors and 2 calipers plus pads for about 600 shipped. I just did this and got the calipers/rotors/pads this weekend. No reason to go and spend the inflated price for Q5 calipers.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...caliper-source

[bhvrdr]

Porsche Macan brakes are the same as the Q5 345mm calipers and can be had for 225 each from various Porsche parts dealers online. They come in a flat black and say Porsche but can easily be repainted. ECS sells a pair of S4 345mm rotors for 100, and obviously they carry more expensive options. Nothing other then brake pads needed. Could put together 2 rotors and 2 calipers plus pads for about 600 shipped. I just did this and got the calipers/rotors/pads this weekend. No reason to go and spend the inflated price for Q5 calipers.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...caliper-source

Absolutely and if youd spend the money for 320mm calipers just get the 345mm ones. The 320mm is going to be an aesthetic upgrade more than anything. The 345mm wil actually give you better fade resistance

Mike

[alhutch]

Porsche Macan brakes are the same as the Q5 345mm calipers and can be had for 225 each from various Porsche parts dealers online. They come in a flat black and say Porsche but can easily be repainted. ECS sells a pair of S4 345mm rotors for 100, and obviously they carry more expensive options. Nothing other then brake pads needed. Could put together 2 rotors and 2 calipers plus pads for about 600 shipped. I just did this and got the calipers/rotors/pads this weekend. No reason to go and spend the inflated price for Q5 calipers.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...caliper-source

Which pads work with these calipers? Same as A4/S4?

[bhvrdr]

Which pads work with these calipers? Same as A4/S4?

No they're not a4 s4 calipers. You want pads for the q5 3.0 but that happens to be the same pad shape for a 2008 wrx sti and for a ctsv and a ton of cars.

Mike

[muffinman92]

Absolutely and if youd spend the money for 320mm calipers just get the 345mm ones. The 320mm is going to be an aesthetic upgrade more than anything. The 345mm wil actually give you better fade resistance

Mike

You saved me $220 with this last minute incite. I am not sure why more people don't know about this info.

[bhvrdr]

You saved me $220 with this last minute incite. I am not sure why more people don't know about this info.

Hardfive deserves the credit but yes absolutely for 420 bucks you can have some decent 345mm brembos on the car and another 100 in rotors and 100 in pads and 20 in fluid. Reuse your stock lines.



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[muffinman92]

You think stainless steel lines are worth the upgrade?

[bhvrdr]

You think stainless steel lines are worth the upgrade?

Not at all. Modern brake lines are very stiff and very durable. Stainless lines are harder to inspect for failure as well since the teflon core is covered up

Mike

[AUDIMAN33]

Well, I went the 320 mm route and I can say that it’s definitely an improvement from stock for sure. You’re essentially going from a one piston 282 piston front brake system so you’re getting more even wear as well as overall better pad distribution on to the caliper. I don’t track the car as it’s my daily driver so I just wanted a moderate upgrade without breaking the bank and this definitely fit the bill! The other nice thing is that you don’t have to switch out the rotors given the 320’s fit on our OE setup. So if your rotors still have considerable life on them, a thorough cleaning and double check for any warping and you’re golden! I went with Centric Posi-Quiet pads up front and Akebono pads in the rear. ECS stainless steel lines all around, good quality brake fluid, got the Schwaben mini fluid pump kit which worked great so you can do a one person bleed. Happy with how they turned out.
As for performance, it’s not as if you tap on the brakes and suddenly you’re head-butting the windshield type of stoppage. I’d say it’s a subtle but appreciable steady stopping power. With the OEM calipers, if I were going pretty fast and had to really stop, I have to basically slam that pedal to the floor. Even then, I still felt like gosh it definitely needs more. The 320s feels more reassured but you still gotta get on it early. It just feels like it took at least that element of “ oh oh, I don’t have any more leeway to push that pedal down any further!”
I can’t speak for the 345 mm calipers since I never set those up on my car. Based on what others have posted in the past, stands to reason that it would be the logical next step up versus the 320 mm. How much more so? Couldn’t really tell you. If I had to do it over again, I’d keep my eyes out for a used set of 345’s. So long as they aren’t damaged/leaking, I’d have them sand blasted, powder coated, and new caliper kit for the gaskets done.by replacing the gaskets. It stands to reason that if given a choice and money isn’t s big factor, you’ld have to go with the 345s. It basically comes down to your wallet and what you’re trying to achieve. If you’re planning to track the car want something with really substantial power to stop on a dime? If that’s your answer then definitely the 345‘s. If you’re more like me, just puttin’ around town, commuting, running errands, heading out of town on a rare occasion for a weekend getaway, then the 320s are definitely serviceable imho.
Here’s how mine came out.



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I love this set up May have to do it.

[hardfive]

Hardfive deserves the credit but yes absolutely for 420 bucks you can have some decent 345mm brembos on the car and another 100 in rotors and 100 in pads and 20 in fluid. Reuse your stock lines.



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And you helped me a week ago when I ordered my rotors/calipers/pads. People helping people is good stuff.

Any shots of the calipers behind wheels? I have the OEM 11 sline wheels (look like rs4 wheels) and I cant decide if leaving them black with the porshe is going to be flashy enough. I need 50% somewhat better braking, and 50% show (tbh).

[Novarider]

Hardfive deserves the credit but yes absolutely for 420 bucks you can have some decent 345mm brembos on the car and another 100 in rotors and 100 in pads and 20 in fluid. Reuse your stock lines.



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Any brackets required to run these or do they bolt directly to the a4 carrier bracket?

[bhvrdr]

@hardfive and novarider

I'll grab a shot behind the wheels when I get home. Didnt take this car today and forgot this morning but if you want more bling the matte black it comes with is probably too subtle for you. I like the sleeper grocery getter aspect to the Avant and I figured if I painted them myself they would look like shit so I kept them oem.

No brackets at all needed. The calipers come with the spring clips and the metal dowel pins to secure the pads. Done lose them. theyre pricey to replace. The calipers bolt up directly using any old S4 rotor. You can use cheap 50 rotors or you can go with bling bling 2-piece s4 rotor replacements from folks like ECS or JHM. Totally up to you. Then all you need is pads (pagid hellas are 50 bucks or oem brembo pads are about 100 bucks) and fluid. That be all.

Mike

[Novarider]

@hardfive and novarider

I'll grab a shot behind the wheels when I get home. Didnt take this car today and forgot this morning but if you want more bling the matte black it comes with is probably too subtle for you. I like the sleeper grocery getter aspect to the Avant and I figured if I painted them myself they would look like shit so I kept them oem.

No brackets at all needed. The calipers come with the spring clips and the metal dowel pins to secure the pads. Done lose them. theyre pricey to replace. The calipers bolt up directly using any old S4 rotor. You can use cheap 50 rotors or you can go with bling bling 2-piece s4 rotor replacements from folks like ECS or JHM. Totally up to you. Then all you need is pads (pagid hellas are 50 bucks or oem brembo pads are about 100 bucks) and fluid. That be all.

Mike

How do they feel? Did the pedal get mushy at all with these? Did it mess with the brake balance at all?

[Wagoon]

How do they feel? Did the pedal get mushy at all with these? Did it mess with the brake balance at all?

I would say mine feel pretty OEM overall as far as initial bite is concerned, but once you get into it a bit the stopping power is definitely heightened. Here's a pic of my setup for anyone who wants some encouragement

[bhvrdr]

How do they feel? Did the pedal get mushy at all with these? Did it mess with the brake balance at all?

Yeah I agree with Dayd. The differences I initially felt had to do with a proper bedding. After bedding i'd say any differences I felt are likely attributed to a different pad compound I am using. It may also be the caliper design but hard to say. The OEM A4 pads are VERY grabby - initial bite. Thats great if you like that. Not so great for modulation. I actually dont mind grabby brakes but a lot of people hate them so thats purely subjective.


Pedal Travel:
Theres always talk and concern surrounding "pedal travel" when changing the brake calipers. Pedal travel is a funny concept. The actual pedal travel is of course the same because the brake pedal itself is not changed (meaning you still have the same distance the pedal can travel from resting position to the floor). So when people talk about pedal travel they really mean where and how in the travel does the brake start to bite and where is it effective under lets say moderate braking up to a stop light versus threshold braking at a track or in an accident avoidance scenario.

In the OEM form, the pedal bites pretty hard very shallow in the pedal travel. It starts biting noticeably at, say, 10% of travel... right away. Under moderate braking for everyday stoplights and traffic you need low input and not much more than 50% of travel is used. For panic stops with OEM pads you still need surprisingly little effort and can invoke ABS at probably 70%travel.

With the Macon/Q5 calipers there is a difference but much of that difference may be attributed to the pads. Let me say that again... much of the difference may be attributed to a difference in pad compound as compared to OEM. That said, i'd say the pagid/hella pads are much more progressive in bite. In moderate daily braking they grab a bit more deep in the travel (lets say OEM starts grabbing at 10% travel then these grab at say 20% travel) and around 60% travel is probably used for normal street braking. It is progressive in that the harder you push the more brake you get... progressively more the harder and harder you push. With the OEM its more of a flat torque curve where once you touch the brakes you get a lot of brake..right now... and a bit more the harder you press. To threshold brake with the Q5/Macans you need close to 80% travel and can invoke ABS.

I will probably try the OEM Brembo pads next to see what differences that gives me in feel. I'll report back on it. Another thing to consider is that I havent drive a Q5 3.0 so I cant tell you if my car is braking any differently than those do either as far as pedal travel and feel. The A4 may not be identical in feel to the Q5 so we shouldnt necessarily expect our pedal feel to be identical before and after.

Mike

[alhutch]

Yeah I agree with Dayd. The differences I initially felt had to do with a proper bedding. After bedding i'd say any differences I felt are likely attributed to a different pad compound I am using. It may also be the caliper design but hard to say. The OEM A4 pads are VERY grabby - initial bite. Thats great if you like that. Not so great for modulation. I actually dont mind grabby brakes but a lot of people hate them so thats purely subjective.


Pedal Travel:
Theres always talk and concern surrounding "pedal travel" when changing the brake calipers. Pedal travel is a funny concept. The actual pedal travel is of course the same because the brake pedal itself is not changed (meaning you still have the same distance the pedal can travel from resting position to the floor). So when people talk about pedal travel they really mean where and how in the travel does the brake start to bite and where is it effective under lets say moderate braking up to a stop light versus threshold braking at a track or in an accident avoidance scenario.

In the OEM form, the pedal bites pretty hard very shallow in the pedal travel. It starts biting noticeably at, say, 10% of travel... right away. Under moderate braking for everyday stoplights and traffic you need low input and not much more than 50% of travel is used. For panic stops with OEM pads you still need surprisingly little effort and can invoke ABS at probably 70%travel.

With the Macon/Q5 calipers there is a difference but much of that difference may be attributed to the pads. Let me say that again... much of the difference may be attributed to a difference in pad compound as compared to OEM. That said, i'd say the pagid/hella pads are much more progressive in bite. In moderate daily braking they grab a bit more deep in the travel (lets say OEM starts grabbing at 10% travel then these grab at say 20% travel) and around 60% travel is probably used for normal street braking. It is progressive in that the harder you push the more brake you get... progressively more the harder and harder you push. With the OEM its more of a flat torque curve where once you touch the brakes you get a lot of brake..right now... and a bit more the harder you press. To threshold brake with the Q5/Macans you need close to 80% travel and can invoke ABS.

I will probably try the OEM Brembo pads next to see what differences that gives me in feel. I'll report back on it. Another thing to consider is that I havent drive a Q5 3.0 so I cant tell you if my car is braking any differently than those do either as far as pedal travel and feel. The A4 may not be identical in feel to the Q5 so we shouldnt necessarily expect our pedal feel to be identical before and after.

Mike

Thanks for your very detailed feedback! Could you also comment on the amount of dust generated by each compound in comparison to the stock A4 pads (very dusty!)?

[red4life5]

I would say mine feel pretty OEM overall as far as initial bite is concerned, but once you get into it a bit the stopping power is definitely heightened. Here's a pic of my setup for anyone who wants some encouragement

What wheels are you running? I want to do this but I have 19’s with a 45 offset & have been told they won’t work. Don’t want to spent the money to have the calipers sit around


2010 A4 S-Line Prestige

[Novarider]

Will they fit behind the factory rs4 style 19's

[Wagoon]

What wheels are you running? I want to do this but I have 19’s with a 45 offset & have been told they won’t work. Don’t want to spent the money to have the calipers sit around


2010 A4 S-Line Prestige

20x10.5" et25 BBS CH-R

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[OzeyeruZ]

What wheels are you running? I want to do this but I have 19’s with a 45 offset & have been told they won’t work. Don’t want to spent the money to have the calipers sit around


2010 A4 S-Line Prestige

IMG_8786.jpg

Have the A6 Dual Piston 356 rotors and it fits just fine with stock S4 peelers, best investment since the Ko4.

Oz



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[ians]

I have Q5 345 set on for around a year. Love these update a lot! It improve the looks of my avant 100X. And I also free the braking improve a lot too but my stock brake is quite worn out so it is not a fair comparsion. BTW, both rotors & pads are stoptech. Also I am on OEM 19" and the brake also able to fit OEM 18"

DSCF2917.jpg

[hardfive]

Will they fit behind the factory rs4 style 19's

I have the same 2011 prestige with sline wheels. I'll let you know once I do the install but I don't think fitment will be an issue.

[Novarider]

I have the same 2011 prestige with sline wheels. I'll let you know once I do the install but I don't think fitment will be an issue.

Thanks. I plan on doing this when I need to replace my calipers

[OzeyeruZ]

Fyi: for anyone that have upgraded their brakes, are you guys upgrading your spare tire to be able to fit the new brakes? Otherwise you would have to change the spare to one of your rears and move the rears up to the front in case you should ever have a flat tire with your bigger brake setup.


Oz


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[Nano909]

Porsche brakes here I come.

[bluefox280]

Thanks for your very detailed feedback! Could you also comment on the amount of dust generated by each compound in comparison to the stock A4 pads (very dusty!)?

For my Brembo 345mm project I selected EBC Red Stuff pads - they have good bite, great spirited driving heat threshold, and produce less dust (in my experience around 30%-40%) than the OEM pads. I did the upgrade for performance due to my driving style and dealing with mountain passes.

Fyi: for anyone that have upgraded their brakes, are you guys upgrading your spare tire to be able to fit the new brakes?

No; I haven't tried the spare but more than likely I will swap a rear to the front, and then the spare on the rear.

- Erik

[muffinman92]

What size brembo sticker do these use?

[Nano909]

For my Brembo 345mm project I selected EBC Red Stuff pads - they have good bite, great spirited driving heat threshold, and produce less dust (in my experience around 30%-40%) than the OEM pads. I did the upgrade for performance due to my driving style and dealing with mountain passes.






No; I haven't tried the spare but more than likely I will swap a rear to the front, and then the spare on the rear.

- Erik

I'll probably run something a little more aggressive than the Red Stuff since they started fading on me during a brief mountain pass.

[bluefox280]

I'll probably run something a little more aggressive than the Red Stuff since they started fading on me during a brief mountain pass.

Really? I've not experienced such and I'm heavy footed when it comes to late braking.
Yellow Stuff is your next step up.

What fluid choice are you running? What rotors are you on?
Do you have access to an infrared temperature scanner when you start to feel / see brake fade?

- Erik

[Nano909]

Really? I've not experienced such and I'm heavy footed when it comes to late braking.
Yellow Stuff is your next step up.

What fluid choice are you running? What rotors are you on?
Do you have access to an infrared temperature scanner when you start to feel / see brake fade?

- Erik

I'm running stock fluid and Brembo blank rotors. To be fair I was driving pretty aggressive as if I was driving my old road racing/autox car. Red Stuff is definitely much better than stock and I think is 100% worth the money.

[OzeyeruZ]

For my Brembo 345mm project I selected EBC Red Stuff pads - they have good bite, great spirited driving heat threshold, and produce less dust (in my experience around 30%-40%) than the OEM pads. I did the upgrade for performance due to my driving style and dealing with mountain passes.






No; I haven't tried the spare but more than likely I will swap a rear to the front, and then the spare on the rear.

- Erik

Thanks Erik,

That is what I am planning to do as well unless I can find A6/A7 spares for cheap. Love your car btw, are you stock suspension? What size are your wheels?

Oz

[Novarider]

If you use the porsche calipers how/where do you look for pads? I looked up porsche macan pads but there weren't many options. Some places like esc don't have anything available.