Recommended upgrades for a K04

[Van Black]

Hi guys,

I've been reading around but I just can't seem to find clear answers to all my questions.

So my deal is like this: I've got a hybrid turbo. It's supposed to have a GT2480 compressor and K04 clipped turbine and should be good for 360/360,
although they did say they've seen 390 horses out of it.

My power goal is around 330 - 340 as it's my DD and I want it to last as long as possible.

I already got S3 injectors and Autotech HPFP. I'll get the 136 bar FPR later.

1) Do I need rods and a clutch as well? And for the clutch, if needed would a PP and disc from an RS4 do the job?
2) On the exhaust side, is the decat and DP enough or is a full exhaust a must for the power goal.
3) On the intercooler side I plan on using something like a JHM small core. Are 2.5" pipes good enough?
4) Will I need a 3 bar MAP and 200 bar rail pressure sensor?

Anything else you can recommend I would be grateful

Alex

[EvolutionArmory]

Pick a turbo, pick a tune and run the equipment they recommend. There’s no need to change sensors and valves unless your equipment calls for it.

Does that make sense?


Any turbo car will benefit from a better intercooler and exhaust. Again, how big you go depends on the turbo and tune you go with.

As far as the clutch goes, a better clutch is always better than a weaker clutch. The RS4 clutch is good for more power than the engine can handle so you’ll most likely be fine with it. Again, pick a turbo and tune first and buy the clutch that will handle what power it can produce.

As far as engine internals go, if the turbo and tune you pick isn’t safe for stock rods, upgrade them. If they are rod safe, upgrading them is entirely up to you.

[aluthman]

Hi guys,

I've been reading around but I just can't seem to find clear answers to all my questions.

So my deal is like this: I've got a hybrid turbo. It's supposed to have a GT2480 compressor and K04 clipped turbine and should be good for 360/360,
although they did say they've seen 390 horses out of it.

My power goal is around 330 - 340 as it's my DD and I want it to last as long as possible.

I already got S3 injectors and Autotech HPFP. I'll get the 136 bar FPR later.

1) Do I need rods and a clutch as well? And for the clutch, if needed would a PP and disc from an RS4 do the job?
2) On the exhaust side, is the decat and DP enough or is a full exhaust a must for the power goal.
3) On the intercooler side I plan on using something like a JHM small core. Are 2.5" pipes good enough?
4) Will I need a 3 bar MAP and 200 bar rail pressure sensor?

Anything else you can recommend I would be grateful

Alex

1) If it spools anywhere close to a K04, yes, I would do rods. The clutch really depends on how you drive, but it's a good chance the stock clutch would be living on borrowed time.
2) You MIGHT be able to get there with stock catback, but a better flowing exhaust will only help. If you're on a budget, get a JHM DP-Y and a stock S4 catback.
3) 2.25" pipes would be plenty for that power level, so 2.5" are more than adequate.
4) 3 bar MAP you will most likely need. The 200 bar rail sensor, probably not.

I would recommend getting the PRV sooner rather than later as you are overworking your hpfp if you are running a 2+ tune on a stock PRV.

[Van Black]

I already have the turbo, it's a BBT360, more or less a K04.
Don't a have a good enough tuner around here, just guys that pedal their own products, so of course they say
I need all the parts that can be bought from them.

I forgot to ask: dowel pin the crank?

[aluthman]

Pin the crank or buy the IE billet gear.

[Van Black]

Thanks guys for your answers

[vce1232000]

JHM has a KO4 file that is in beta stage. Final tune is to follow soon. Heard things about the product but no actual experience as of yet . This tune can also be flashed remotely on site

advise from both above members. I would also suggest a aftermarket larger DP to improve spool time

[Charles.waite]

His hybrid probably has different characteristics than a stock k04, its just modified to fit the housing.

I pretty much concur with all of what Aluthman said though.

[EvolutionArmory]

His hybrid probably has different characteristics than a stock k04, its just modified to fit the housing.

I pretty much concur with all of what Aluthman said though.

It probably depends on how more or how less his hybrid is like a K04. 😀

I would recommend that the OP asks for a compressor map or some other data from the MFG to figure out exactly what type of software would be best for his hybrid.

[vce1232000]

I would recommend that the OP asks for a compressor map or some other data from the MFG

I know a generic company that has a compressor map for all turbo's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i1XyQbbBhk
...........

[canadianA4B7]

Shoot Malone tuning a message. If your venturing into a turbo that not many are using he’ll be able to build a custom tune for your goals/build.

For your other questions

1. Rods will be a must at that turbo size IMO to use it to full potential you’ll want more connecting rod. And clutch I would highly suggest too. For a smaller series turbo you could go aluminum to gain a bit more engine speed. Single mass with an oem RS4 pressure plate and disc would be sufficient (look up ACT clutch) and a fly from 034 Motorsports for I think $500 maybe $525.

2. Exhaust get as much away from turbo as you can limit the number of bottle necks and remove cat. Or buy a test pipe that looks like a cat (oem cat cud be hacked up to be welded directly around 3” test pipe. Takes some work but it can be done)

3. Larger IC will help a bunch to keep that air cool 2.5” pipe should be plenty.

4. 3 bar map sensor might not be needed can be helpful with refining tuning and going beyond 22 psi. This is actually more Ecu specific as I was able to run 26 psi on GTX2863 but it was showing inconsistencies in boost could spike or fall short nothing to crazy but the 3 bar certainly helped.

I always tell people to balance the crank rods, Pistons, clutch flywheel and so on. For simple fact I purchased new and it required a good amount of material to be removed to balance. This will just make things spin smoother.
K04 was fun but I think your going to be much happier as yours will flow more air up top. You’ll be happily shifting closer to redline with that turbo. So you know if this turbo is billet compressor or number of blades? I’m trying to find a bit more data on it to see exactly how it sized up. Is it the replacement for the GT2560 turbo?

Will be a hell of a fun car with this turbo if I’m looking at correct data.

[Charles.waite]

Here is the turbo:

http://0afa09.7.ekm.shop/bbt-k360-176-p.asp

Never heard of these guys but they make some interesting turbos. Not a lot of info on their site. At all.

[canadianA4B7]

Interesting. I’m surprised no ones grabbed one of those EFR that have been made into a custom 1piece manifold/turbine housing. They were only $2500 or something.

I thought these were based off a Porsche style turbo so seeing this is a bit different. It would be interesting to see what turbine wheel they are using as going much larger on the compressor seems to be a bit too large for efficiency and a larger turbine would just solve so many k04 downfalls. Being most of the lacking power is up top I wouldn’t be surprised if they are using a 8 equal length compressor blade to get that power shifted a bit further right and more top end to reach they’re expected goals. Now I’m very interested in seeing this finalize!

[Charles.waite]

I feel like anyone willing to splash out almost $2400 on an EFR is likely willing to spend $1000 more for a proper manifold setup that won’t compromise the turbo characteristics.

Unless this is a custom manifold, not just cramming an EFR into a stock manifold.

[canadianA4B7]

I feel like anyone willing to splash out almost $2400 on an EFR is likely willing to spend $1000 more for a proper manifold setup that won’t compromise the turbo characteristics.

Unless this is a custom manifold, not just cramming an EFR into a stock manifold.

Custom fully cast manifold that is sized with a .64 ar hotside. Not stock by any means. His plan was to get the 6758 and 7163 to resemble stock boost the best he could and look like a somewhat stock fit. Requires fabricating a handful of parts like the intake, lower IC pipe maybe a few more minor bits. But likely far less then some BT options ($2080 for my manifold and it’s not even top mount or twin scroll, yes I got wastegate and some hardware and turbo lines), solid quality though for sure and I’m not complaining at all but Charles is correct things add up nice and quick.

[Charles.waite]

That would be a sweet setup. I know ATP makes a somewhat generic FSI manifold, but ATP has questionable quality sometimes.

Would be awesome if someone would make a reasonably affordable twin scroll option but I realize the FSI platform is sorta a dead end of you’re going for power these days.

[B5A4coastie]

Looking forward to seeing this through as well.

[Van Black]

Hi, sorry, was AFK for a few days. The compressor is 7+7 IIRC and the turbine is a clipped K04. I've never seen map for it, but there are a lot of dyno graphs around.
Here is where I got some info from http://r-techperformance.co.uk/axx-b...bo-conversion/
These guys seem to be the go-to standard in the UK, that's why I asked about the sensors.
I'm getting a SH set of IE rifle drilled rods, got BPG pistons, plan on a 3" DP with sports cat (I hate the smell of fuel behind the car)
into a twin 2.25" exhaust (probably).
It's gonna take some time getting there as I just got a spring break on the back and the shocks are at 66%. Gonna through a lot of cash at it
in the near future.
I'm hoping I'll get the chance to do the work this winter as I don't have a garage any more and I'll use the company space to swap the parts
on the engine.

[vce1232000]

a 3" DP with sports cat (I hate the smell of fuel behind the car)

Nothing like the smell of a test pipe in the am on initial start up ..................

[Charles.waite]

Nothing like the smell of a test pipe in the am on initial start up ..................

Planet murderer!!!!

[Theiceman]

Planet murderer!!!!

Then you wont like my latest project
IMG_6655.JPG


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[vce1232000]

Planet murderer!!!!

And your point is .................

[Van Black]

Nothing like the smell of a test pipe in the am on initial start up ..................

I remember from the days I drove a Renault 12 (communist replica) This one also smells sometimes, just not that bad

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BTW would I need to upgrade the bearings on the rods and mains for this power level?

[EvolutionArmory]

I remember from the days I drove a Renault 12 (communist replica) This one also smells sometimes, just not that bad

- - - Updated - - -

BTW would I need to upgrade the bearings on the rods and mains for this power level?

A K04 or similarly sized hybrid has the potential to deliver a lot of torque really quickly. That’s what kills rods. The tune you decide to run will ultimately decide if you need rods. Many tuners delay boost so it ramps up below 3500 RPM’s in order to save your rods. A generic off the shelf tune will most likely be rod safe. If you decide to upgrade your rods then you should probably go with a custom tune that will give you better power low in the power band because the upgraded rods will be able to handle the torque spike.

This is why I said pick a turbo, pick a tune and run the equipment they recommend in my first reply. Pick a power goal, pick a turbo, pick a tune and build the car around that.

[IbisB7stage2]

Pick a power goal, pick a turbo, pick a tune and build the car around that.

I'm gonna derail this thread slightly since I think you just brought it to a natural end anyway:

For a common power goal of 300whp on a B7 2.0t, what's the turbo/tune that's proven? Since we know JHM still isn't ready, is it APR? Uni? GIAC? Is it k04, or bigger because k04 cant do 300wheel?

[Charles.waite]

300whp from a k04 is pretty ambitious, maybe impossible. But easily doable with a GTRS.

I’ve heard really good things about UM tunes.

[Van Black]

A K04 or similarly sized hybrid has the potential to deliver a lot of torque really quickly. That’s what kills rods. The tune you decide to run will ultimately decide if you need rods. Many tuners delay boost so it ramps up below 3500 RPM’s in order to save your rods. A generic off the shelf tune will most likely be rod safe. If you decide to upgrade your rods then you should probably go with a custom tune that will give you better power low in the power band because the upgraded rods will be able to handle the torque spike.

This is why I said pick a turbo, pick a tune and run the equipment they recommend in my first reply. Pick a power goal, pick a turbo, pick a tune and build the car around that.

I already had the turbo, now I have the rods too. In the end I'll probably go with a Revo dealer, the other guys gave me the impression they're pushing their parts on me.

So, are bearings also a must?
I'm asking cause a group experience is a lot better than solo experimenting

[Van Black]

I'm gonna derail this thread slightly since I think you just brought it to a natural end anyway:

For a common power goal of 300whp on a B7 2.0t, what's the turbo/tune that's proven? Since we know JHM still isn't ready, is it APR? Uni? GIAC? Is it k04, or bigger because k04 cant do 300wheel?

Here in Europe TTE have a turbo for 420 BHp, that should get you 300whp. Also, beach buggy turbos have solutions for 400+ crank horses.
If I'm not mistaking the TTE is a modified K04 so you wouldn't need headers.

[EvolutionArmory]

300whp from a k04 is pretty ambitious, maybe impossible. But easily doable with a GTRS.

I’ve heard really good things about UM tunes.

Ambitious, I don’t think so. I think you’d get there or real darn close with meth or 100 octane. I mean, your average K04 is dong 270-280 WHP. 10-15% more with meth and you’re there.

[EvolutionArmory]

I'm gonna derail this thread slightly since I think you just brought it to a natural end anyway:

For a common power goal of 300whp on a B7 2.0t, what's the turbo/tune that's proven? Since we know JHM still isn't ready, is it APR? Uni? GIAC? Is it k04, or bigger because k04 cant do 300wheel?

Hopefully I’ll have an idea of what the GIAC tune can do when I take it to the track this Wednesday. My expectations are low. I don’t care about ET, only trap speed. My JHM tune only did 91 MPH. I’m hoping I’m closer to 100 MPH than 90 this time.

[IbisB7stage2]

Hopefully I’ll have an idea of what the GIAC tune can do when I take it to the track this Wednesday. My expectations are low. I don’t care about ET, only trap speed. My JHM tune only did 91 MPH. I’m hoping I’m closer to 100 MPH than 90 this time.

switched tunes because the JHM final version isn't ready?

[EvolutionArmory]

switched tunes because the JHM final version isn't ready?

Yes. After a year of ownership I wanted to enjoy what a K04 is suppose to run like. If they ever come up with a good tune I can always go back. It’s paid for I just didn’t want to wait anymore. I spent 6 grand in mods and was only stage one fast with their tune. Lol

[vce1232000]

If they ever come up with a good tune I can always go back. It’s paid for I just didn’t want to wait anymore. I

I understand your PAIN. Ive only been waiting since 2015 .............. Think Ill just sell the JHM credits to another member on the cheap and go GIAC myself

[EvolutionArmory]

Is your APR tune weak? Their website puts it in line power wise with other tunes. 318 crank should get you about 270 wheel.

The GIAC file might not be any better than APR’s. I’d wait to see. Maybe I’ll hit the dyno but I doubt the GIAC file would be much different than APR’s.

[EvolutionArmory]

Look at the 1/4 mile thread. The 2nd fastest K04 car on the list is an APR car with their production pump gas file.

[vce1232000]

Is your APR tune weak? Their website puts it in line power wise with other tunes. 318 crank should get you about 270 wheel.

The GIAC file might not be any better than APR’s. I’d wait to see. Maybe I’ll hit the dyno but I doubt the GIAC file would be much different than APR’s.

I never had another KO4 file for a comparison . I was sold by JHM that their beta file was better then APR's KO4 production file . So I bit for it and bought it. 3 years later still no finalized file .

Im not about the APR file at all. Never once did it hiccup on me. Has solid when I it. Thought I just wanted to try something different and maybe put some that was left on the table. Live and learn I guess

[Jezza]

I mean, I can't personally recommend these, but they seems to be the most logical place to start.

Turbine:
https://shop.mambatek.com/product.sc...&categoryId=-1
Compressor:
https://shop.mambatek.com/product.sc...&categoryId=-1

I've been looking at both of them for a while now. I would like to have a spare ihi turbo I have laying around machined fo fit them, but I just don't have the funds for all that right now. The site claims the compressor is 400hp capable, which usually means the compressor has a peak flow rate of 40 lbs/min. That's a pretty big bump from an oem K04-0064.

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[Van Black]

Those look sick. Albeit, you need to find a good shop to machine the housings I would imagine

[Charles.waite]

Wasn’t APR’s K04 file the one that was notorious for throwing stock rods through blocks?

[vce1232000]

Wasn’t APR’s K04 file the one that was notorious for throwing stock rods through blocks?

Ive been the out of mine with no issue's. I think it was some backyard tuners that was doing it