Frankenturbo f23 OR K04?

[dalmation53]

So i'm really reading on this topic. Thinking of pulling the trigger next month on a turbo. Please explain why the F23 makes more power but it's cheaper? 🤔 supposely you can run it om stock injectors is that correct? Can some turbo gurus explain which one i should go and why?

[StatusQuo]

People hate on tbe F23 here. For good reason. If you are doing your own work and you have a backup car (or this isn't your daily), I would try the F23L. Hell, I would even try my hand at the eBay F23Ls if I really wanted to experiment.

The warranty on the F23L is good. I was actually going to get an F23L against the advice here but I found a Big turbo kit for around the same price used.

There is an F23L tune on maestro with stock injectors. Might be fun. Also there is risk involved since many say the F23L is not very reliable.

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[p0isin]

Take it from someone who lived that pain first hand. Do NOT buy an F23L. It will blow up on you, likely multiple times.

[aluthman]

You get what you pay for. The F23 is cheap china junk. You buy it for 3-4 times what FT pays for it and they hope that after two replacements that you give up and they still profit. While you CAN run either turbo on stock injectors, you likely won't get max performance and will probably kill your injectors from being at crazy high duty cycles all the time. Do it once, and do it right. Get a real k04 and some S3/Golf R injectors.

[EvolutionArmory]

You get what you pay for. The F23 is cheap china junk. You buy it for 3-4 times what FT pays for it and they hope that after two replacements that you give up and they still profit. While you CAN run either turbo on stock injectors, you likely won't get max performance and will probably kill your injectors from being at crazy high duty cycles all the time. Do it once, and do it right. Get a real k04 and some S3/Golf R injectors.

Quoted for emphasis.

I got sucked down the rabbit hole on Facebook the other day with a guy that said Frankenturbo was better than Borg Warner. His reasoning was because Frankenturbo was aftermarket and had to be better. He said put on a Frankenturbo and make “real power”. He also didn’t believe me when I told him Borg Warner also made big turbos. He never heard of EFR’s or even the BW K04-064. 😂

One thing I realized was that Frankenturbo’s advertising works better than their products.

[funkypterodacty]

Can't forget this classic



Don't forget to watch pt.2 !

[Ashtonts]

I have an F23 with 50k miles on it. No issues. Everyone hates, but very few people have actually run them on here due to their bad reputation.

They had some issues in the past, but it seems they have gotten them sorted.

I’m not saying I recommend buying one (bought the car with this turbo on it), but take that for what it’s worth. They’re also really popular with the B5 crowd. They’re not anywhere close to as bad as everyone says they are, at least not anymore.

Agreed that no matter what you choose to do, get proper supporting hardware (FMIC, downpipe, injectors, hpfp) before you upgrade.

[dalmation53]

Oh wow nvm on the f23l then. So buy this one?

https://thmotorsports.com/i-2283354....EaAq1aEALw_wcB

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[EvolutionArmory]

Buy a kit that has everything you need. Buy it once and buy right.

The picture of the turbo you linked isn’t even of a K04-064. The discription says it is though. It also says you’ll need to buy a DV kit for it so it will cost more than what they are asking. Plus you’ll need injectors and a HPFP upgrade on top of that.

Buy a kit from someone who includes everything and from one of the usual vendors. You’ll be better off in the long run.

[EvolutionArmory]

Look into JHM’s K04. It has a lot of great features. It has a ceramic coated hot side and a powder coated cold side. Not too many people offer that, if any. It also uses the stock DV so no relocation is necessary. It’s a really nice piece of hardware. You can use their tune or upgrade whoever’s tune you’re already running to that tuner’s K04 file and it will probably run great.

[i3oricua]

I think you'll be fine man. Sure you could end up with a lemon of a turbo but plenty of people have been running that turbo with no problems. You've read a small percentage of the horror stories so take it with a grain of salt. Do your research and go with your gut. We all have different tastes and interests on here so what works for one will not work for all.

You're better off asking the B5 guys what they think of the turbos if you want to gauge the ground truth behind it.

Remember most guys here have never run that turbo but will be quick to tell you how terrible they are...

My $0.02.

[p0isin]

^^^ no. It's a shit turbo. More than half the initial crowd (myself included) had it blow up at least once. And I can confirm that the person I sold mine to after getting a replacement from FT also blew up within 1 month. Stay far away from frankenturbo

[Ashtonts]

^^^ no. It's a shit turbo. More than half the initial crowd (myself included) had it blow up at least once. And I can confirm that the person I sold mine to after getting a replacement from FT also blew up within 1 month. Stay far away from frankenturbo

There’s a reason anecdotal evidence is generally not worth a lot. Mines been going strong for 50k Miles with not a single issue. If you asked me, I would say it’s far from a garbage turbo. Like I mentioned earlier, they had some issues early on, but they seem to have sorted them out.

I would say exercise caution if you get an F23. Just know you may need to rebuild/replace it and be prepared to do so. If you’re okay with that risk, there’s no reason to avoid them. It’s also not a given that they are 100% going to blow up, either.

[p0isin]

I don't see how your data is that relevant either. At least mine takes into account multiple people and I lived through the ordeal that was FT.

Great that yours hasn't shit the bed yet but FT reliability is nowhere near Garrett and anybody who recommends it as such is completely wrong

[i3oricua]

^^^ no. It's a shit turbo. More than half the initial crowd (myself included) had it blow up at least once. And I can confirm that the person I sold mine to after getting a replacement from FT also blew up within 1 month. Stay far away from frankenturbo

Why I suggested he do research first. This is part of it here. We have one response that says no problems. One that says he had a problem. What about the other 100’s or 1000’s of owners? Recent owners? Just saying.

I’m not trying to convince him to buy one but I’m not telling him to stay away from it either. Just do some homework. For all we know JHM is taking those same turbos and rebranding them and marking them way up (I’m positive they’re not. They’re a reputable company that has been very good to our platform).


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[p0isin]

I can agree with telling OP to do research first before jumping in.

[dalmation53]

I think i'll pass on f23. I don't want to tak a risk. I want something reliable. I know what i need. I already have an upgraded hpfp and my S3 injectors should be coming here soon. All i need is the actual turbo i dont need a "kit"

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[EvolutionArmory]

I think i'll pass on f23. I don't want to tak a risk. I want something reliable. I know what i need. I already have an upgraded hpfp and my S3 injectors should be coming here soon. All i need is the actual turbo i dont need a "kit"

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Then if that’s all you need, it’s REAL hard to beat JHM’s K04R for 1600 for all the reasons I listed earlier. The turbo is about the same price or less than everyone else’s, it has more features and is a drop in turbo.

[EvolutionArmory]

Another option is the K04-064 that CTS Turbo sells. It has the DV relocation kit included and they also include their test pipe for 2300.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-cts-part...UaAqAREALw_wcB

[dalmation53]

Then if that’s all you need, it’s REAL hard to beat JHM’s K04R for 1600 for all the reasons I listed earlier. The turbo is about the same price or less than everyone else’s, it has more features and is a drop in turbo.

How much power like hp and torque with that turbo?

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[EvolutionArmory]

How much power like hp and torque with that turbo?

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I have no real data. I was going to go to the track last night but got rained out. I’ll tell you Wednesday how fast it is.

I’ll have to make a dyno appointment too.

All these K04’s are probably going to be around the same power. Around 270-280 at the wheels or 320 at the crank.

[dalmation53]

I have no real data. I was going to go to the track last night but got rained out. I’ll tell you Wednesday how fast it is.

I’ll have to make a dyno appointment too.

All these K04’s are probably going to be around the same power. Around 270-280 at the wheels or 320 at the crank.

320 nice. Does it feel way faster then stock?

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[EvolutionArmory]

The JHM turbo is a nice piece of hardware. The ceramic hot side is a nice touch. It keeps the heat in better and will keep it protected from the elements better.



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320 nice. Does it feel way faster then stock?

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Yes.

[dalmation53]

The JHM turbo is a nice piece of hardware. The ceramic hot side is a nice touch. It keeps the heat in better and will keep it protected from the elements better.



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Yes.

Damn that looks soo nice

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[EvolutionArmory]

JHM also claims this turbo is suppose to be able to flow more than the K04-064 so it should be faster. Unfortunately, the turbo has been out for a few years and they have provided zero evidence to support this claim as of yet. I’d like to see that data or a time slip or a dyno sheet or a log or something..... 😀

[Ashtonts]

I don't see how your data is that relevant either. At least mine takes into account multiple people and I lived through the ordeal that was FT.

Great that yours hasn't shit the bed yet but FT reliability is nowhere near Garrett and anybody who recommends it as such is completely wrong

You’re basically implying that he’s 100% guaranteed to get a shit turbo that will inexorably blow up. It sucks that’s what happened to you, but that doesn’t mean it’s a given. I’m giving the OP firsthand evidence to the contrary. It’s not necessarily a “shit turbo”. I am not trying to imply at all that it is on the level of Garrett or BW or anything else of known quality. I’m just saying they’re not as bad as you (and many other forum members) suggest. Maybe at one point they were that bad, but as I have said already, they have sorted out many of their past issues.

[i3oricua]

JHM also claims this turbo is suppose to be able to flow more than the K04-064 so it should be faster. Unfortunately, the turbo has been out for a few years and they have provided zero evidence to support this claim as of yet. I’d like to see that data or a time slip or a dyno sheet or a log or something.....

The worst part about all of this or I should say the JHM turbo in my opinion is that they are “still developing” their tune. We have members that have been waiting a very long time this final time that hasn’t appeared yet.


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[EvolutionArmory]

The worst part about all of this or I should say the JHM turbo in my opinion is that they are “still developing” their tune. We have members that have been waiting a very long time this final time that hasn’t appeared yet.


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The tune part is frustrating for sure. The hardware is really good from my experience though. I have no problem recommending the hardware part of their turbo kit. As far as the tune goes, there’s options. You don’t have to run their tune with it. Their tune isn’t bad either. I don’t want anyone to think I’m ragging on their tune. It just isn’t very refined. Hopefully we will have a much better tune shortly. I’ll be sending logs as soon as Jake emails me the list of measuring blocks and instructions.

[i3oricua]

The tune part is frustrating for sure. The hardware is really good from my experience though. I have no problem recommending the hardware part of their turbo kit. As far as the tune goes, there’s options. You don’t have to run their tune with it. Their tune isn’t bad either. I don’t want anyone to think I’m tagging on their tune. It just isn’t very refined.

You’re correct that you don’t have to run their tune but my understanding is that it is part of their package which a big sales piece in my opinion. However, I would always advise to get it tuned independently if you have the option to maximize all the variables of your own car when tuning.


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[dalmation53]

Although i belive you because it failed on a few people doesn't make it shit. There are a few borgwarner k04's that have failed as well. Doesn't make it shit. Just stuff happen. I will be getting the jhm turbo only since i have been collecting parts. Also to run the K04 i'm i good on jhm stage 1 or do i need stage 2?

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[i3oricua]

Although i belive you because it failed on a few people doesn't make it shit. There are a few borgwarner k04's that have failed as well. Doesn't make it shit. Just stuff happen. I will be getting the jhm turbo only since i have been collecting parts. Also to run the K04 i'm i good on jhm stage 1 or do i need stage 2?

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You’ll need the K-04 tune. It won’t run right with their tune for the K-03. Matter of fact it could be dangerous.


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[dalmation53]

You’ll need the K-04 tune. It won’t run right with their tune for the K-03. Matter of fact it could be dangerous.


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So i need jhms K04 tune? Wait so i have to spend another $600?

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[i3oricua]

So i need jhms K04 tune? Wait so i have to spend another $600?

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I think their tune comes with their K-04 package. If you have their K-03 tune they might upgrade you for free or throw you a deal if you buy the turbo from them. You’ll have to ask them for sure.


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[EvolutionArmory]

I think their tune comes with their K-04 package. If you have their K-03 tune they might upgrade you for free or throw you a deal if you buy the turbo from them. You’ll have to ask them for sure.


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To upgrade from JHM K03 tune to K04 is $300. This is about normal for K04 upgrades across most of the tuners.

Ivan, are you stage 1 or stage 2 from anyone now? If you’re still stock I have bad news for you. K04 tunes are like 750-900 if you’re stock 😀

[EvolutionArmory]

You’ll need the K-04 tune. It won’t run right with their tune for the K-03. Matter of fact it could be dangerous.


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I ran my K04 on a stage 2 tune for a few days/week or so. I babied it and still hit limp mode every other day.

[EvolutionArmory]

So i need jhms K04 tune? Wait so i have to spend another $600?

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You’ll need A K04 tune. Not necessarily JHM’s tune. If you’re already stage 1 or 2 from someone else, just upgrade to K04 from them for a few hundred.

A K04 on a B7 is a true stage 3 upgrade. Although it’s still a small frame turbo, I would still call it a “stage 3” upgrade so you’ll definitely need proper software.

[Audi_Soul_(las)]

The worst part about all of this or I should say the JHM turbo in my opinion is that they are “still developing” their tune. We have members that have been waiting a very long time this final time that hasn’t appeared yet.


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Yes. I'm one of those guys still waiting for them to release their final tune. They told me that it would be out sometime during the winter months, but it still hasn't been released. I've been running Unitronic's ko4 file but it's not good enough for the turbo in my opinion. But if you buy the Jhm kof-r kit that comes with their base file, it will be a free upgrade for you when they do release it.

I don't see how your data is that relevant either. At least mine takes into account multiple people and I lived through the ordeal that was FT.

Great that yours hasn't shit the bed yet but FT reliability is nowhere near Garrett and anybody who recommends it as such is completely wrong

Instagram- quattro_cody

[EvolutionArmory]

I think their tune comes with their K-04 package. If you have their K-03 tune they might upgrade you for free or throw you a deal if you buy the turbo from them. You’ll have to ask them for sure.


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Their turbo kit has drop down menus that allow you to subtract items that you already have. When I bought mine I only bought the fuel pump internals and turbo. I was already JHM tuned and got brand new APR injectors for 300 shipped with the help of some mighty fine Audizine members. 👍🏻👍🏻

[derrek]

CTS K04 and GIAC if you stock block. Car ran great with that setup for years and put down well over 300whp. FT is a joke and I have yet to see any other hybrid K04 turbo work as good as the BW K04-64.

[dalmation53]

CTS K04 and GIAC if you stock block. Car ran great with that setup for years and put down well over 300whp. FT is a joke and I have yet to see any other hybrid K04 turbo work as good as the BW K04-64.

300whp. What about crank?

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