UM E85 flex-fuel tune

[Coolrunning]

Happy Sunday everyone!

I am about to go ham on my 2015 S3 in the next couple of weeks over at Bluewater Performance here in Denver. I definitely trust and love the United Motorsports brand but I have not found anyone utilizing their software/hardware for their E85 program.

I do not mind being a test person on the forum and report back but I want to know if anyone has all the bolt-ons, is38 turbo, and running E85. Just would like to know anyones experience with this.

At Bluewater I will be adding:

UM Software - E85 add-on
UM DSG tune
UM Haldex
3in catless dp
Unitronic FMIC
Spulen Boost hoses

I currently have the APR TIP, ECS tuning silicone intake pipe, stock air box with KN filter and drilled out sections for more airflow. So mainly the entire intake is all so far.

My goal is to run a consistent 400 awhp and I believe I can achieve that with the E85.

Give me your thoughts!

[TCHUN003]

Full E85 would be awesome. I have eurodyne stage 2 with dsg tune. I run 2.5 gal of e85 with the 12 gal of 91 octane and use the 93 octane tune and it feels amazing. I still need to get an intercooler. I know you need an upgraded fuel pump to run full e85 and fuel injectors (not sure which ones), but I'm not sure of what else would need to be modified. I don't know personally know of any golf Rs or S3s running full e85 on is38s, but I'm very curious as well.

[Coolrunning]

Full E85 would be awesome. I have eurodyne stage 2 with dsg tune. I run 2.5 gal of e85 with the 12 gal of 91 octane and use the 93 octane tune and it feels amazing. I still need to get an intercooler. I know you need an upgraded fuel pump to run full e85 and fuel injectors (not sure which ones), but I'm not sure of what else would need to be modified. I don't know personally know of any golf Rs or S3s running full e85 on is38s, but I'm very curious as well.

I’m going to find out more tomorrow when I call up Bluewater. With my 15’ Golf R with UM software I also ran 3 gallons of E85 but their program wasn’t around just yet.

I’ll make sure to post up tomorrow when I get the full scoop of what is needed for this tune. We have plenty of E85 out here in Denver so I’d love to utilize it to the max.

[seal66]

You are going to love the UM e85 tune... I tested it here in Denver for them with aftermarket injectors too. It is on my b7 A4.

[Coolrunning]

You are going to love the UM e85 tune... I tested it here in Denver for them with aftermarket injectors too. It is on my b7 A4.

Awesome to hear! I have the UM E85 R32 tune on my 04 and that needed injectors... I’m guessing that the new tune will just need software but I’ll find out more soon.

[diztek]

you cant go wrong with anything UM

[SKorea808]

Happy Sunday everyone!

I am about to go ham on my 2015 S3 in the next couple of weeks over at Bluewater Performance here in Denver. I definitely trust and love the United Motorsports brand but I have not found anyone utilizing their software/hardware for their E85 program.

I do not mind being a test person on the forum and report back but I want to know if anyone has all the bolt-ons, is38 turbo, and running E85. Just would like to know anyones experience with this.

At Bluewater I will be adding:

UM Software - E85 add-on
UM DSG tune
UM Haldex
3in catless dp
Unitronic FMIC
Spulen Boost hoses

I currently have the APR TIP, ECS tuning silicone intake pipe, stock air box with KN filter and drilled out sections for more airflow. So mainly the entire intake is all so far.

My goal is to run a consistent 400 awhp and I believe I can achieve that with the E85.

Give me your thoughts!

You will not achieve 400whp with full bolt-ons/E85 at Denver altitude. You wouldn't be able to flow full E85 anyway without port injection & an upgraded LPFP unless you either run less boost on E85 or run high boost & run lean and risk causing damage (which Bluewater won't let you do anyway).

I was the 1st to do full E85 + port injection on the IS38 alone in Denver on my brand new 2017 S3 which had only a couple hundred miles on the odometer when I brought her in. Here is some data I've collect over the year and various setups.

For those reading who do not understand what high elevation (Denver, CO. Elevation 5300+ ft) does to power output and quarter mile times/mph, its a huge hit. We lose anywhere from 0.5-1.5 seconds and 4-10 mph off quarter mile times (pending conditions) vs an identical setup at sea level. A normal "Stage 2" MK7 R & S3 generally makes over 340whp whereas in Denver most struggle to make 310-320whp on 91 octane. Most "Stage 2" MK7s & S3s in the Denver area run between 12.6-13.2@103-109 from best conditions (Density Altitude 7300 ft & below / 65 Degrees & below until traction suffers / no headwind) to worst conditions (Density Altitude 8500 ft & above / 80 Degrees & above / minor/moderate headwind). This is solely based on my data and observations throughout the entire season at Bandimere Speedway in Morrison, CO. Track Elevation 5813.6 ft.

April 2017
United Motorsport IS38 Performance Software
United Motorsport DQ250 Performance Software
APR Carbon Fiber Intake System
APR Exhaust System
APR Intercooler System
APR Boost Hose System
Fluidampr Performance Harmonic Balancer
343whp/368ft-lbs on Sunoco GT (100 Octane) / 13.0@104mph Bandimere Speedway (Density Altitude 8900 ft)

June 2017
Same modifications above + APR Fueling System (Port Injection) + Walbro 450 LPFP (replaced APR's Walbro 305 LPFP)
367whp/410ft-lbs on E85 (sensor read alcohol content @85%) / 12.4@110mph Bandimere Speedway (Density Altitude 8700 ft)

August 2017
Same modifications above + APR Stage 3+ EFR7163 Turbocharger System
450whp/443ft-lbs on E85 (sensor read alcohol content @85%) / 11.4@121mph Bandimere Speedway (Density Altitude 7800 ft)

March 2018
Final Modification List
United Motorsport EFR7163 Performance Software
United Motorsport DQ250 Performance Software
United Motorsport Pro-Flex Kit
APR Stage 3+ EFR7163 Turbocharger System
APR Intercooler System
APR Boost Hose System
APR Fueling System
AMS Carbon Fiber Intake System
Iroz Motorsport Brushless LPFP
Integrated Engineering Recirculating Catch Can
Milltek Sport Non-Resonated Exhaust (Non-Valved/Black Round Tips)
Fluidampr Performance Harmonic Balancer
Braille B2015C Battery (Carbon Fiber Case/15lbs)
Braille Vertical Aluminum Battery Mount
470whp+/450ft-lbs+ (estimated) / 11.2@125mph Bandimere Speedway (Density Altitude 7200 ft)

The car has the mph to get 10.9 up here, just waiting on the haldex tune so my 60' can improve (box code issue). I did a lot of trial and error + testing so people like you in Denver wouldn't have to do it. I'm surprised Ben/Bluewater Performance didn't refer you to me. That list is only a fraction of the modifications I have done. I have covered everything from chassis/suspension/brakes/tires/wheels etc.

[Coolrunning]

You will not achieve 400whp with full bolt-ons/E85 at Denver altitude. You wouldn't be able to flow full E85 anyway without port injection & an upgraded LPFP unless you either run less boost on E85 or run high boost & run lean and risk causing damage (which Bluewater won't let you do anyway).

I was the 1st to do full E85 + port injection on the IS38 alone in Denver on my brand new 2017 S3 which had only a couple hundred miles on the odometer when I brought her in. Here is some data I've collect over the year and various setups.

For those reading who do not understand what high elevation (Denver, CO. Elevation 5300+ ft) does to power output and quarter mile times/mph, its a huge hit. We lose anywhere from 0.5-1.5 seconds and 4-10 mph off quarter mile times (pending conditions) vs an identical setup at sea level. A normal "Stage 2" MK7 R & S3 generally makes over 340whp whereas in Denver most struggle to make 310-320whp on 91 octane. Most "Stage 2" MK7s & S3s in the Denver area run between 12.6-13.2@103-109 from best conditions (Density Altitude 7300 ft & below / 65 Degrees & below until traction suffers / no headwind) to worst conditions (Density Altitude 8500 ft & above / 80 Degrees & above / minor/moderate headwind). This is solely based on my data and observations throughout the entire season at Bandimere Speedway in Morrison, CO. Track Elevation 5813.6 ft.

April 2017
United Motorsport IS38 Performance Software
United Motorsport DQ250 Performance Software
APR Carbon Fiber Intake System
APR Exhaust System
APR Intercooler System
APR Boost Hose System
Fluidampr Performance Harmonic Balancer
343whp/368ft-lbs on Sunoco GT (100 Octane) / 13.0@104mph Bandimere Speedway (Density Altitude 8900 ft)

June 2017
Same modifications above + APR Fueling System (Port Injection) + Walbro 450 LPFP (replaced APR's Walbro 305 LPFP)
367whp/410ft-lbs on E85 (sensor read alcohol content @85%) / 12.4@110mph Bandimere Speedway (Density Altitude 8700 ft)

August 2017
Same modifications above + APR Stage 3+ EFR7163 Turbocharger System
450whp/443ft-lbs on E85 (sensor read alcohol content @85%) / 11.4@121mph Bandimere Speedway (Density Altitude 7800 ft)

March 2018
Final Modification List
United Motorsport EFR7163 Performance Software
United Motorsport DQ250 Performance Software
United Motorsport Pro-Flex Kit
APR Stage 3+ EFR7163 Turbocharger System
APR Intercooler System
APR Boost Hose System
APR Fueling System
AMS Carbon Fiber Intake System
Iroz Motorsport Brushless LPFP
Integrated Engineering Recirculating Catch Can
Milltek Sport Non-Resonated Exhaust (Non-Valved/Black Round Tips)
Fluidampr Performance Harmonic Balancer
Braille B2015C Battery (Carbon Fiber Case/15lbs)
Braille Vertical Aluminum Battery Mount
470whp+/450ft-lbs+ (estimated) / 11.2@125mph Bandimere Speedway (Density Altitude 7200 ft)

The car has the mph to get 10.9 up here, just waiting on the haldex tune so my 60' can improve (box code issue). I did a lot of trial and error + testing so people like you in Denver wouldn't have to do it. I'm surprised Ben/Bluewater Performance didn't refer you to me. That list is only a fraction of the modifications I have done. I have covered everything from chassis/suspension/brakes/tires/wheels etc.

You are absolutely correct that I could not achieve 400awhp with the E85 here in Denver...not sure what I was thinking when I typed that LOL!

I spoke with BW yesterday in more detail and were going to add 4 more injectors under the intake manifold and a few other things that I cannot explain. It will allow the ability to run full E85 so ill keep this forum posted as I move through the process over the next month.

[TCHUN003]

You will not achieve 400whp with full bolt-ons/E85 at Denver altitude. You wouldn't be able to flow full E85 anyway without port injection & an upgraded LPFP unless you either run less boost on E85 or run high boost & run lean and risk causing damage (which Bluewater won't let you do anyway).

I was the 1st to do full E85 + port injection on the IS38 alone in Denver on my brand new 2017 S3 which had only a couple hundred miles on the odometer when I brought her in. Here is some data I've collect over the year and various setups.

For those reading who do not understand what high elevation (Denver, CO. Elevation 5300+ ft) does to power output and quarter mile times/mph, its a huge hit. We lose anywhere from 0.5-1.5 seconds and 4-10 mph off quarter mile times (pending conditions) vs an identical setup at sea level. A normal "Stage 2" MK7 R & S3 generally makes over 340whp whereas in Denver most struggle to make 310-320whp on 91 octane. Most "Stage 2" MK7s & S3s in the Denver area run between 12.6-13.2@103-109 from best conditions (Density Altitude 7300 ft & below / 65 Degrees & below until traction suffers / no headwind) to worst conditions (Density Altitude 8500 ft & above / 80 Degrees & above / minor/moderate headwind). This is solely based on my data and observations throughout the entire season at Bandimere Speedway in Morrison, CO. Track Elevation 5813.6 ft.

April 2017
United Motorsport IS38 Performance Software
United Motorsport DQ250 Performance Software
APR Carbon Fiber Intake System
APR Exhaust System
APR Intercooler System
APR Boost Hose System
Fluidampr Performance Harmonic Balancer
343whp/368ft-lbs on Sunoco GT (100 Octane) / 13.0@104mph Bandimere Speedway (Density Altitude 8900 ft)

June 2017
Same modifications above + APR Fueling System (Port Injection) + Walbro 450 LPFP (replaced APR's Walbro 305 LPFP)
367whp/410ft-lbs on E85 (sensor read alcohol content @85%) / 12.4@110mph Bandimere Speedway (Density Altitude 8700 ft)

August 2017
Same modifications above + APR Stage 3+ EFR7163 Turbocharger System
450whp/443ft-lbs on E85 (sensor read alcohol content @85%) / 11.4@121mph Bandimere Speedway (Density Altitude 7800 ft)

March 2018
Final Modification List
United Motorsport EFR7163 Performance Software
United Motorsport DQ250 Performance Software
United Motorsport Pro-Flex Kit
APR Stage 3+ EFR7163 Turbocharger System
APR Intercooler System
APR Boost Hose System
APR Fueling System
AMS Carbon Fiber Intake System
Iroz Motorsport Brushless LPFP
Integrated Engineering Recirculating Catch Can
Milltek Sport Non-Resonated Exhaust (Non-Valved/Black Round Tips)
Fluidampr Performance Harmonic Balancer
Braille B2015C Battery (Carbon Fiber Case/15lbs)
Braille Vertical Aluminum Battery Mount
470whp+/450ft-lbs+ (estimated) / 11.2@125mph Bandimere Speedway (Density Altitude 7200 ft)

The car has the mph to get 10.9 up here, just waiting on the haldex tune so my 60' can improve (box code issue). I did a lot of trial and error + testing so people like you in Denver wouldn't have to do it. I'm surprised Ben/Bluewater Performance didn't refer you to me. That list is only a fraction of the modifications I have done. I have covered everything from chassis/suspension/brakes/tires/wheels etc.

Impressive! So for me to run E85 on my stage 2, I would need APR Fueling System (Port Injection) + Walbro 450 LPFP and the ecu mapping correct? I have eurodyne and I believe they have maestro where we can do custom tunes.

[chris164935]

Does anyone know what pressure the port injectors are run at? I assume the LPFP is variable speed to maintain the rail pressure.

[Coolrunning]

SKorea808.... is that you Justin?

[SKorea808]

SKorea808.... is that you Justin?

Yup. Message me on FB. You’ll find me in Euro Society or AlphaEuros.

[SKorea808]

Impressive! So for me to run E85 on my stage 2, I would need APR Fueling System (Port Injection) + Walbro 450 LPFP and the ecu mapping correct? I have eurodyne and I believe they have maestro where we can do custom tunes.

APR Fueling or the another brand that is similar. Only issue with Eurodyne is they don’t have a flex few sensor add-on like UM does. Reads real time ethanol content and adjusts timing advance based on what is read. Eurodyne would have to give you a fixed ethanol % tune.

[P2WRTMR]

APR Fueling or the another brand that is similar. Only issue with Eurodyne is they don’t have a flex few sensor add-on like UM does. Reads real time ethanol content and adjusts timing advance based on what is read. Eurodyne would have to give you a fixed ethanol % tune.

Very good to know that the APR stage 3+ does well with UM tune and E85. Are you still on stock motor and how much boost are you running?

[SKorea808]

Very good to know that the APR stage 3+ does well with UM tune and E85. Are you still on stock motor and how much boost are you running?

It’s set to 32 psi. Holds 30-31 throughout redline, spikes to 34-35 on shift change. Almost playing with fire since these EFRs don’t like high shaft speeds.

[Coolrunning]

Bumping this back up.

Going to have the full E85 conversion within the next couple weeks. The car is already fantastic but the E85 should truly turn the car into a little beast.

I’ll keep everyone posted!

[A20V200]

subscribed

[firemanjust1]

Anyone know about how many hours in labor is required for the fuel rail plus 450 pump ? I have a appointment set for next month to get the UM ecu/dsg tune and the flex tune. I would prefer to just get it all done at once if cost allow.

[chris164935]

What port injection kit are you going with? Any plans to upgrade the in-tank fuel pump controller?

[Coolrunning]

To answer both questions:

I am looking at around 10/12 hours for the full install as I am getting charged $1,200+ for the full labor install

The entire kit will contain:

- MK7 VW/AUDI EA888 Gen 3 Port Injection Kit - 1-301-01-1111 stock #
- 1200 CC Injectors upgrade
- Stage 3 Fuel Pump Upgrade Kit - Walbro 450
- UM Flex-Fuel fuel sensor kit
- UM Port injection Turn-on Software

Rough estimate of about $3,100 all-in on everything

http://www.precisionraceworks.com/in...&product_id=87

http://www.precisionraceworks.com/in...&product_id=67

http://www.unitedmotorsport.net/prod...productId=1381

[Coolrunning]

This coming Monday under the knife for 3 days at Bluewater Performance.

[chris164935]

Are 1200cc injectors required in order to run E85 with the stock turbo? I am planning to run E85 at some point and someone local to me is selling Precision Raceworks' Stage 2 fuel pump kit for a great price.

[Coolrunning]

Are 1200cc injectors required in order to run E85 with the stock turbo? I am planning to run E85 at some point and someone local to me is selling Precision Raceworks' Stage 2 fuel pump kit for a great price.

It’s not required but I would just prefer to use those so I have “0” fueling issues when I decide to up the turbo size in the future. For an additional $300 out of of a $3,800 price point, might as well.

The stage 2 pump I believe is the Walbro 305 which most people upgrade to the Walbro 450 pretty quickly. You may find yourself having to upgrade in the near future if you go that route.. my opinion of course.

[chris164935]

I talked briefly with Precision Raceworks about it and they say that the Stage 2 should be enough, but then they also keep pushing me to the Stage 3 pump. I do not have any real plans to go larger than stock turbo since my other Audi is the fun toy.

Do you know anything else about UM's E85 tune? Does it "turn off" port injection when you go to pump 93?

[Coolrunning]

I talked briefly with Precision Raceworks about it and they say that the Stage 2 should be enough, but then they also keep pushing me to the Stage 3 pump. I do not have any real plans to go larger than stock turbo since my other Audi is the fun toy.

Do you know anything else about UM's E85 tune? Does it "turn off" port injection when you go to pump 93?

Im not to sure how to answer that since they are saying it "should be" enough, but they are probably just trying to make a sale, lol. I have read and heard that the Walbro 305(stage 2) can on occasion hinder the full benefits/performance of the E85 tune hence why most upgrade to the Walbro 450(stage 3). The larger injectors will just allow more flow overall even at stock turbo levels.

You know, I havent heard that the UM tune turns off when using 91/93/100 octane gases with the MPI. More than likely it just runs with more flow into the engine with what gas you put in there and the sensor just says that your not using full E85. Gains should be had with regular gas(more of it) and the most with E85.

[chris164935]

I was just doing a little more research and it looks like APR's full fueling kit uses the same 305 pump that the Precision Raceworks' Stage 2 kit uses.

Once you have everything installed, do you plan to run E85 all the time? If not, please let us know how the car runs with pump gas; I'm curious to see how it will drive, especially with the larger injectors.

[Coolrunning]

I was just doing a little more research and it looks like APR's full fueling kit uses the same 305 pump that the Precision Raceworks' Stage 2 kit uses.

Once you have everything installed, do you plan to run E85 all the time? If not, please let us know how the car runs with pump gas; I'm curious to see how it will drive, especially with the larger injectors.

Morning man!

That is the same pump the APR Kit uses and that’s the one folks upgrade to the 450. Even the earlier post in this thread, you can see he changed from the 305 to the 450.

I’ll do my best to keep E85 as much as possible but I won’t be able to I know. I’ll be dropping off the car with at least 100 miles of regular fuel left in it so I’ll be able to tell right away the difference. I’ll run the car Down to 40ish miles and fill it all back up with E85 so I’ll have an immediate answer for you.

[chris164935]

Bummer about the 305 pump. Saving over $100 would have been nice.

Sounds good. Also, for reference, I did find another guy running this setup in a Golf R and he made 360awhp with a basic UM flex fuel tune and had ~E70 in the tank. He also said that Fred from UM told him that he tuned a different car with the same setup and made like 410awhp. So, it looks like UM will custom tune for your specific car when doing the flex fuel tune. I know you're at a higher altitude, but I think the gains will still be pretty awesome.

[Coolrunning]

Bummer about the 305 pump. Saving over $100 would have been nice.

Sounds good. Also, for reference, I did find another guy running this setup in a Golf R and he made 360awhp with a basic UM flex fuel tune and had ~E70 in the tank. He also said that Fred from UM told him that he tuned a different car with the same setup and made like 410awhp. So, it looks like UM will custom tune for your specific car when doing the flex fuel tune. I know you're at a higher altitude, but I think the gains will still be pretty awesome.

Those are some solid numbers on an is38! It’s going to be very beneficial by having the tune and MPI up here in Denver, especially since we only have 91. Essentially it’s a 14 octane point jump with more injectors and cooling effects, it’s goinf to be great. I would be most excited if I can truly make over 400awtq on this setup out here before a larger turbo.

Just after this weekend!!!

[Coolrunning]

TOMORROW!!!

[Somejace]

Sub


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Coolrunning]

Dropped off and should be ready end of day Wednesday.

For those watching/sub'd, what kind of questions do you have in your head for me for when I get it back?

Happy to answer anything!

[Coolrunning]

Just picked up the car and HOLY BALLS!

I was able to fill up with 11.3 gallons of E85 and the rest is 91 octane so a touch more to be had im sure. Damn such an insane increase in torque

[Somejace]

Just picked up the car and HOLY BALLS!

I was able to fill up with 11.3 gallons of E85 and the rest is 91 octane so a touch more to be had im sure. Damn such an insane increase in torque

Noticeable difference ?




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[Coolrunning]

Noticeable difference ?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quite noticeable. At first I was not super impressed actually. I was saying to myself "this is quick but not exactly what I just paid $3,800 for"...So I kept driving it back home and popped the hood to see how hot the motor is(95+ out here today) and the silly turbo inlet pipe was NOT attached to my intake pipe. Simple mistake from the shop but oh well.

I tightened it back on and then I was happy with what I paid for. The car actually had one of those "pulling jerks" and full throttle at 60mph, totally caught me off guard.

[SKorea808]

Quite noticeable. At first I was not super impressed actually. I was saying to myself "this is quick but not exactly what I just paid $3,800 for"...So I kept driving it back home and popped the hood to see how hot the motor is(95+ out here today) and the silly turbo inlet pipe was NOT attached to my intake pipe. Simple mistake from the shop but oh well.

I tightened it back on and then I was happy with what I paid for. The car actually had one of those "pulling jerks" and full throttle at 60mph, totally caught me off guard.

Now imagine having an EFR7163 with fueling (Iroz Brushless Pump), complete monster.

[Coolrunning]

Now imagine having an EFR7163 with fueling (Iroz Brushless Pump), complete monster.

I can only imagine! I’ve finally(at least I think so) have run all the 91 octane out of the car. Filled up with 22 gallons of E85 since yesterday haha!

The main point of the MPI, besides some fun, was getting ready for an undetermined future BT. I have everything else so it would just be bolt on and go

[chris164935]

Did UM do a custom tune for your car? If so, do you have any dyno numbers? Did you have the intake valves cleaned while the manifold was off or will the port injection take care of that?

[Coolrunning]

Did UM do a custom tune for your car? If so, do you have any dyno numbers? Did you have the intake valves cleaned while the manifold was off or will the port injection take care of that?

It turns out that UM had a tune built exactly for my set up so that was awesome! Unfortunately, I was not able to get on a dyno before or after yet. The shops dyno was under going heavy maintenance so it’s out for the foreseeable future. I’ll definitely get that posted as soon as I can.

The port injection will take care of the valve cleaning so no use in doing that. I image it won’t take long for a full clean effect to take place.

[chris164935]

How's it driving after 4 days?