Is there a bigger throttle body other then ultra charger

[Benser]

Just wondering if there are any companies that make a larger throttle body ? I had heard that a few companies that were working on them. I have a giac tune so the ultra charger won't work for me. Thanks

[infinkc]

A larger throttle body will require a special tune, so that won’t work for you either.

[p3u]

A larger throttle body will require a special tune, so that won’t work for you either.

Not true. A few guys have swapped out their 80mm Ultracharger TB for 85mm and 90mm without issue.

[jimrobbington]

Not true. A few guys have swapped out their 80mm Ultracharger TB for 85mm and 90mm without issue.

But that insinuates they already have an ultracharger tune in the first place...

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[p3u]

But that insinuates they already have an ultracharger tune in the first place...

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Of course. But the Ultracharger charger tune really just allows the Hemi throttle bodies to communicate with the ECU properly. The ECU can adapt to airflow from a larger TB, just need one that can talk to the ECU.

[rtl5009]

I have a potted and polished TB. It’s slightly larger.

[A.C.]

Anyone running a larger throttle body with Unitronic tune?


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[jcpowell]

What are the benefits behind a larger throttle body? It seems like people with the ultracharger aren't reporting any noticeable differences over Stage 2 DP.

[brs2c]

Issam and 1 other company are working on/have developed larger TB's, in addition to APR, and they are in final stages, before release ( supposedly).

The stock TB is a half in smaller in diameter than the intake of the supercharger, as well as losing the space occupied by the butterfly valve. So, the idea is to remove this airflow bottleneck.

[jcpowell]

Issam and 1 other company are working on/have developed larger TB's, in addition to APR, and they are in final stages, before release ( supposedly).

The stock TB is a half in smaller in diameter than the intake of the supercharger, as well as losing the space occupied by the butterfly valve. So, the idea is to remove this airflow bottleneck.

Serious question, but does that half inch really make a big difference in terms of air intake volume? So if you got a bigger throttle body than that then you would also increase the diameter of the supercharger intake?

[brs2c]

An extra half inch makes a big difference when you are talking area of a circle. I think APR's TB may be smaller than what others are making, as UC is only 25% larger than stock. Here's the math, at work.

3"diameter circle= 7.07 sq inches

3.5"diameter circle= 9.625 sq inches

So, 3 to 3.5" increase is a 36% increase in diameter (on the yet to be released versions).

[jcpowell]

An extra half inch makes a big difference when you are talking area of a circle. In this case, a half inch gets you 25ish% more area.

Thanks, just trying to gain some understanding.

[brs2c]

Thanks, just trying to gain some understanding.

I just updated with more detail in my previous explanation. There are actually a couple of benefits from the larger TB. First, because air is more easily sucked in, more comes in ( so more power)- like drinking a milkshake from a bigger diameter straw. Second, because volumetric efficiency has been increased (you are moving more air through the engine, in a given period of time), the air takes on less heat making more power (lower IAT'S )- like a larger diameter straw increases the risk of brain freeze.

You likely understand all of this, but I post in case it helps someone grasp the concept of why the larger TB's are good. I expect the larger ones to help more than the UC, once released.

[waxxonMTL]

^^ Once it release, it will take more times ( maybe 4-8weeks) before official tunes get released.

In theory this is what it is, in pratice, people with UC have noticed better throttle response and less '' lag'' to accelerate when driving around 2k and accelerating full throttle instantly. It's not huge, but when your already DP, theres very little left to do on the car performance-wise... soooo you take better throttle responce over nothing :D

[RReddington]

Tunerwerks has a TB tune

[GandalfTheIbis]

Its a mod that plays very well with ported superchargers as well. With a larger throttle body and ported supercharger guys are reporting an extra 2-3mph on traps and that the car feels much stronger to redline.

With more companies doing R&D with even 90mm throttle bodies I hope we'll see more hard data on the subject.

[cspcrx]

A plug and play larger TB with matched "noodle" would be awesome. If someone made that they would sell. Part of the issue with APR is your not APR tuned your cannot run it. That approach limits what portion of the market is interesting or can us your product. Their hope is you would change tunes but so many trust what they have they wont.

Time will tell but it would be nice to see.

[Loe]

I brought up this topic on the 3.0T Technical facebook group (click in my sig to join, its a group who wants to continue development on the platform and sharing pretty much all of their findings and solutions along the way). There are options out there ranging from 83-90mm that is a direct swap (meaning no ECU re-calibration needed) for those who already have the program to run the 80mm unit.

[fx_warrior]

I just updated with more detail in my previous explanation. There are actually a couple of benefits from the larger TB. First, because air is more easily sucked in, more comes in ( so more power)- like drinking a milkshake from a bigger diameter straw. Second, because volumetric efficiency has been increased (you are moving more air through the engine, in a given period of time), the air takes on less heat making more power (lower IAT'S )- like a larger diameter straw increases the risk of brain freeze.

You likely understand all of this, but I post in case it helps someone grasp the concept of why the larger TB's are good. I expect the larger ones to help more than the UC, once released.

Once released is the biggest part here. Everyone gets on APR's case for how long they take, well there have been 2 other people who said they're coming out with a competing TB and I saw them saying this many many months ago. If not close to a year now.

[fx_warrior]

^^ Once it release, it will take more times ( maybe 4-8weeks) before official tunes get released.

In theory this is what it is, in pratice, people with UC have noticed better throttle response and less '' lag'' to accelerate when driving around 2k and accelerating full throttle instantly. It's not huge, but when your already DP, theres very little left to do on the car performance-wise... soooo you take better throttle responce over nothing :D

Lol you and your snark comments anything APR.... guys are trapping over 120 on 93 files lol. That's a little more then just better throttle response.

[cspcrx]

I don’t have Facebook so I guess I will have to hope it gets shared here!

[jazzyjay18]

Think a lil outside the box go look on the supercharged Mustang, Corvette, Cadillac forums and Magazine articles there has been a lot of research done on the gains. It has been proven that 3% increase in size shows WHP gains. I think the best thing is overall cost per HP when compared to porting your supercharger.

[KRp220]

I have a potted and polished TB. It’s slightly larger.

you're GIAC correct? what size/brand did you get (if you don;t mind me asking) and do you feel that its worth it?
i think you and i have similar setups if i remember correctly

[brs2c]

With regards to the timing of other's release (yes multiple companies are on this)- I was bitching about "how long should it take for a motivated and capable fabricator to produce this!?" I am not going to name names, but I was told by an someone witha close relationship to a developer, that release delay issues have been related to the fighting of another's patent approval, on which the R&D on has been done for a while...I am not involved in this, IDK what this guys source was, and I could have been told a pack of lies...BUT it would explain the long delay on a reasonably simple mod.

[vpls4]

I have a potted and polished TB. It’s slightly larger.

you're GIAC correct? what size/brand did you get (if you don;t mind me asking) and do you feel that its worth it?
i think you and i have similar setups if i remember correctly

I'm also interested in TB mods that can be used with GIAC DP tunes race/pump files

[whiped]

You can't go too much more aggressive on the stock TB than this.

I need to trim down my meth plate, it is now the most restrictive part of the intake.

[p3u]

I've started on my own larger TB in hopes for plug and play. With a little luck the harness I'm putting together will communicate correctly with the ECU and allow a TB adaptation.

I should know in the next day or so, just need to purchase the wire to construct the harness.

[GandalfTheIbis]

On a positive note I spoke to Issam today and he said that his Throttle Body will be released in about a week....not 100% sure if that’s actually a week but I would bet that it will be sooner than the 2 weeks it was supposed to be until B8.5 program switching was supposed to be released about 2 years ago!


Pete

From the ultracharger thread... Things are getting interesting again.

[friskuh]

I brought up this topic on the 3.0T Technical facebook group (click in my sig to join, its a group who wants to continue development on the platform and sharing pretty much all of their findings and solutions along the way). There are options out there ranging from 83-90mm that is a direct swap (meaning no ECU re-calibration needed) for those who already have the program to run the 80mm unit.

What are the bigger options? Can you list some if you don’t mind?

[EIAlfonso]

I've started on my own larger TB in hopes for plug and play. With a little luck the harness I'm putting together will communicate correctly with the ECU and allow a TB adaptation.

I should know in the next day or so, just need to purchase the wire to construct the harness.

I’m coming by this weekend to check it out, ready or not!


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[trip'n]

plug and play up to 90mm TB on the Ultra files sounds kinda good to me, Chrysler as well?

[jwye120]

Looks like a typo in your last sentence because you obviously get the math. I think you meant 36% increase area with an increase from 3" to 3.5".

[cspcrx]

I just don't get this proprietary approach everyone is taking on developing these larger TBs. If ELP, GIAC, E34 or whom ever comes out with one and it requires me to use their tune I am not buying it. I am happy with my tune and the amount I have invested. Now if they came out with a plug and play I would buy it.

Seems like they have lost site of the marketing approach of get customers buying and using your products, they will probably buy and use more of them if the experience is positive.

[GandalfTheIbis]

You're dead on. However there are so many of us willing to pay these bloated prices for an average experience that they've gotten away with it relatively easily.

[Loe]

What are the bigger options? Can you list some if you don’t mind?

they are just 5.7-6.4L (2005-2012) TB's that are available as aftermarket upgrades for that platform that range from 85-90mm. On a side note, if you remove the throttle plate rod on the backside on the 80mm OEM hemi TB, you have approx 4mm back; basically a freebie mod that a few Hemi guys do...I spent a bit on those forums (and others) to get idea's on what to do next to see how much further the blower can be pushed.

[friskuh]

they are just 5.7-6.4L (2005-2012) TB's that are available as aftermarket upgrades for that platform that range from 85-90mm. On a side note, if you remove the throttle plate rod on the backside on the 80mm OEM hemi TB, you have approx 4mm back; basically a freebie mod that a few Hemi guys do...I spent a bit on those forums (and others) to get idea's on what to do next to see how much further the blower can be pushed.

& those are plug & play on our platform? It hooks up directly with no electrical hassle?

[brs2c]

Just posted this in the UC thread, but thought it should be here for future searchers:

I ran across this explanation on the FB tech forum:

"Another TB, however, changes the volumetric efficiency of an engine, which for a MAP based ECU like ours is a drastic change. To tune for other TB you need to alter AR_RED_BAS table in the picture I've attached. "
https://scontent.fbna1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...10&oe=5B6DCC39

Another thing to keep in mind is that our cars' tunes consist of thousands of engine files that encapsulate all the various settings of fuel, air specs, RPM, etc. If you go into an area where the files necessary to support the engine's newly increased performance don't exist- you are SOL for taking full advantage of the mod.

[friskuh]

Just posted this in the UC thread, but thought it should be here for future searchers:

I ran across this explanation on the FB tech forum:

"Another TB, however, changes the volumetric efficiency of an engine, which for a MAP based ECU like ours is a drastic change. To tune for other TB you need to alter AR_RED_BAS table in the picture I've attached. "
https://scontent.fbna1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...10&oe=5B6DCC39

Another thing to keep in mind is that our cars' tunes consist of thousands of engine files that encapsulate all the various settings of fuel, air specs, RPM, etc. If you go into an area where the files necessary to support the engine's newly increased performance don't exist- you are SOL for taking full advantage of the mod.

can you post a link to the UC Thread?

[friskuh]

Not true. A few guys have swapped out their 80mm Ultracharger TB for 85mm and 90mm without issue.

Did they share their findings? if so, do you mind sharing what thread it’s on? I can’t find it anywhere.

[Wazzap1101]

Interested in those larger TB options that was brought up earlier in the thread

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