What Generation Quattro do we have?

[69Muscle]

And is it different for the 99.5 cars? I don't think we have traction control do we? ABS yes.

[Bobcat Sig]

Can't answer that, but it would be good to know as I have a 98.5. Always nice to know a little more about one's car ...

[idrivemyself]

B5's have Quattro IV I do believe.

[Daft]

The primary component of the quattro AWD system is the Torsen center differential. Torsen has a page that shows what versions of their product is used in each OEM brand:

http://www.torsen.com/oem.htm

The torsen T-1 is the one that is used in the cars with a manual transmission. This has been the same since 1986 when the Audi quattro was first made.

The first year that quattro was available with a Torsen center diff on an automatic transmission car was 1995 on the A cars. These cars all use the Torsen T-2. All cars before 1995 with an auto trans and a "quattro" badge used a locking center diff.

[Devious27t]

Originally posted by idrivemyself
B5's have Quattro IV I do believe.

you are correct.

[Daft]

Removed so that someone won't cry himself to sleep at night......

[69Muscle]

so according to that post, VW's cars have essentially Quattro too?


And

Quattro with a blend of electronic wizardry, with ABS/ASR sensors acting to detect slipping wheels (the EDL system)


So we do have some ASR? Even on Manuals? (Can't be right)

[alen]

all vws except longitudinally mounted engines (found in passat and phaeton? only) have the haldex drivetrain. only 4motion vws have the torsen type that longitudinal audis have.

[quickglx]

Originally posted by Daft
The primary component of the quattro AWD system is the Torsen center differential. Torsen has a page that shows what versions of their product is used in each OEM brand:

http://www.torsen.com/oem.htm

The torsen T-1 is the one that is used in the cars with a manual transmission. This has been the same since 1986 when the Audi quattro was first made.

The first year that quattro was available on an automatic transmission car was 1995 on the A cars. These cars all use the Torsen T-2.

You've got it all wrong. The first quattros had an open center diff(although it did lock which was awesome...)Quattro premiered first in 1980, 82 in the US. The first automatic Quattro was in 92 on the Audi 100. That 100 was later renamed the A6... Torsen became available on the 80 and 90 models in 1988 in the US. No more locking center diff, just the rear.

[quickglx]

Originally posted by Daft
The "generation" number of the quattro system is a reference to the complete layout and operation of the drivetrain in that quattro equipped car.

So you would factor in the front/center/rear diffs and any other wheel slip or traction control systems that would aid it.

Here's a nice little chart that I found on a Skoda site that describes all the various revisions of the quattro drivetrain:


Brand names

Audi: quattro
VW: syncro, followed by 4motion
Seat: 4
Skoda: 4x4

Systems

Quattro I: open front diff, open center diff (manual lock), open rear diff (manual lock). No ABS when locked.

Full-time manually engaged four-wheel drive.

Was on: original Audi quattro (also named "Urquattro"), Audi 80/100 quattro.

Syncro: open front diff, viscous coupling acting as the center diff, open rear diff.

Part-time automatically engaging four-wheel drive.

Was originally developed by Audi, but sourced to VW as "syncro". Similar line of thought to the Haldex system, with the VC engaging rear drive when needed. Crude system with serious drawbacks, such as a lack of ABS integration, which needed the 4WD system to be switched off under braking, using a secondary clutch. Volvo also went on to use it on their earlier Cross-Country models, adding a TC system at the front and an LSD at the back - complicated and flawed. Also on 911 Carrera 4, but then that's originally a RWD car...

Quattro II: open front diff, torque sensing ("torsen") center diff, open rear diff (manually lockable for "those" situations in the rough). No ABS when rear is locked, auto de-lock when speed exceeds 15mph.

Full-time automatically engaged four-wheel drive.

Was on: the Audi quattro ('88-'91, still nicknamed "Urquattro"), Audi 80/90 quattro, Audi 100/200 quattro, Audi Coupé quattro, Audi S2/RS2, Audi S4, Audi S6 (all until '95). Usually seen as the quattro system.

Quattro III: open front diff, torsen center diff (auto version: planetary gear center with electronically controlled multi-plate locking clutch), torsen rear diff.

Full-time automatically engaged four-wheel drive.

Was on: Audi V8/A8 between 1990 and '94. Quattro II further perfected. The ideal all-mechanical system.

Quattro IV: open front diff with Electronic Differential Lock (EDL), torsen center diff, open rear diff with EDL.

Full-time automatically engaged four-wheel drive.

Is on: all VW/Audi cars with longitudinally mounted engines, so A4/A6/A8 quattro, S4/S6/S8, RS4/RS6, Passat 4motion. Quattro with a blend of electronic wizardry, with ABS/ASR sensors acting to detect slipping wheels (the EDL system). First 4WD system which theoretically needs to have all four wheel slipping before it's rendered unmovable.

Haldex: open front diff with EDL, electronically controlled Haldex clutch center, open rear diff with EDL.

Part-time automatically engaging four-wheel drive.

Is on: all VAG cars with transversely mounted engines, so Audi A3 quattro, S3, TT quattro, VW Golf/Bora 4motion, Seat Leon 4, Skoda Octavia 4x4. Normally FWD but Haldex directs torque to the rear when slip occurs to a maximum torque split of 60/40. Is also the system of use in the latest Volvo AWD models (S60, V70, XC70).

Your posts should be edited so you don't confuse everyone....

Quattro I has ABS function w/ the diffs locked, unless you manually deactivate it. It was full-time, no "engagement" necessary. AKA no tranfer case.
Snycro does use viscous coupling but you apparently don't know what that means. It is a fluid coupling similar in operation to a torque converter. Viscous coupling is a very common type of center diff, used in LOTS of different makes. It is always engaged and why would you need it to disengage for ABS operation???
Quattro II- the Audi "Ur"Quattro was not available 88-91, nor did it have the torsen center diff. The S6 wasn't available until 95, when it was rebadged from the S4, since all the model names were changing and the A4 later introduced state side in 96...
QuattroIII- as far as I know, there was no electronically controlled multi plate locking clutch planetary center diff on the V8s, just two Torsen diffs...
Haldex is the only part time system available, and I think it sucks.

[Bobcat Sig]

Man, I love this place!
Thanks so much for the post AND clarity.
I just learned something new, again today.

[Daft]

Originally posted by quickglx
You've got it all wrong. The first quattros had an open center diff(although it did lock which was awesome...)Quattro premiered first in 1980, 82 in the US. The first automatic Quattro was in 92 on the Audi 100. That 100 was later renamed the A6... Torsen became available on the 80 and 90 models in 1988 in the US. No more locking center diff, just the rear.

Yes, the first quattro drivetrain had no torsen center diff but, my point was to indicate when the first torsens were used.

That year was 1986. Remember, the US was a secondary market for Audi. I got the data from Torssen directly. Call them up like I did you'll get the same info.

This is like 1998 Audi S4 2.7T....Never saw one? It exsisted too:

http://www.audiworld.com/news/99/s4/080598.shtml

As for the auto tranny item, you're right on that one. I really meant that the first year for a Torsen center diff with an auto tranny was 1995. Before 1995, auto trans cars used a locking center diff, not a Torsen.

[Daft]

Originally posted by quickglx
Your posts should be edited so you don't confuse everyone....

I didn't write that chart. As I stated in the post where I posted it, I copied the chart from a Skoda website.

You're welcome to go correct them though:

http://briskoda.net/forums/general-c...and-names.html

[Colonel Angus]

Hey Daft, I want to know how you can be a moderator and still spread these obvious lies. 98% of your original post and your follow up posts is so wrong it's actually quite funny. As far as your 'references', I'm not going to argue with the Torsen chart, but your Skoda link? Who the hell is Dutch 4X4 and why should I believe him? For all I know he is some bufoon just like you who likes to see himself post.

How can you have a full time manually engaged AWD? Full time means it is ALWAYS AWD, no engaging or disengaging. Sure, you use buttons to lock the diffs, but it is always AWD.

You obviously don't understand the mechanics of AWD. How do you engage and disengage a viscous coupling?
Syncro was never part time, and who knows where you got the ABS and AWD disengagement for braking?

The UR Quattro was gen 1 and came to the US in 82.

I'm already tired of correcting you so I'll get to the point of my post - you're dumb.

[69Muscle]

That's a hell of a first post.. .Someone was too afraid too post with their regular user name.

[Daft]

Originally posted by Colonel Angus
Hey Daft, I want to know how you can be a moderator and still spread these obvious lies. 98% of your original post and your follow up posts is so wrong it's actually quite funny. As far as your 'references', I'm not going to argue with the Torsen chart, but your Skoda link? Who the hell is Dutch 4X4 and why should I believe him? For all I know he is some bufoon just like you who likes to see himself post.

How can you have a full time manually engaged AWD? Full time means it is ALWAYS AWD, no engaging or disengaging. Sure, you use buttons to lock the diffs, but it is always AWD.

You obviously don't understand the mechanics of AWD. How do you engage and disengage a viscous coupling?
Syncro was never part time, and who knows where you got the ABS and AWD disengagement for braking?

The UR Quattro was gen 1 and came to the US in 82.

I'm already tired of correcting you so I'll get to the point of my post - you're dumb.

You need to back off. I posted data from another site.

Get over it. You have no reason to call me a liar. I post what I find/read/learn from other places.

Just so that you won't have another stroke, I removed the text from the Skoda site. I really didn't dig though it as thouroughly as I should have. Thanks for making a HUGE deal out of it.

I do have a good understanding of AWD drivetrains and the systems that are added to aid in traction and braking. I'm not sure what you're basing your comments on...

[EVIL-AUDI]

Originally posted by Colonel Angus
Hey Daft, I want to know how you can be a moderator and still spread these obvious lies. 98% of your original post and your follow up posts is so wrong it's actually quite funny. As far as your 'references', I'm not going to argue with the Torsen chart, but your Skoda link? Who the hell is Dutch 4X4 and why should I believe him? For all I know he is some bufoon just like you who likes to see himself post.

How can you have a full time manually engaged AWD? Full time means it is ALWAYS AWD, no engaging or disengaging. Sure, you use buttons to lock the diffs, but it is always AWD.

You obviously don't understand the mechanics of AWD. How do you engage and disengage a viscous coupling?
Syncro was never part time, and who knows where you got the ABS and AWD disengagement for braking?

The UR Quattro was gen 1 and came to the US in 82.

I'm already tired of correcting you so I'll get to the point of my post - you're dumb.

Listen up quickglx aka "Colonel Angus", clean up your posts, especially when dealing with a Moderator. There is a reason Daft is a Mod and YOU are not. Make sure your posts from here on out remain on at a technical level.