I’m done with Audi’s

[saejin]

Been away for awhile.
Love my Audi A4. It’s my third Audi as well. However just picked up a new Jeep Wrangler Rubicon and was thinking of selling the A4. Initially wanted to keep it, but makes no sense for us right now to have three cars. Eventual plan was to move my wife into a Q7 as our Honda Pilot is too big song ethe kids are older now and will be moving out of the house.

Well it’s a 2015 A4 fully loaded with the competition package they were throwing on before the remodel. Took it to carmax and an Audi dealer for an appraisal after checking various online price guides. It has 39,000 miles and is in near perfect condition.
Carmax quoted $20,500 and the dealer was at $19,500.

Insane that a car the stickered at $49k gets less than half it’s value as it nears three years old. I’m sure if I were trading it in on a new Audi the dealership would have worked with me a bit. Or if I sell it privately I could get a bit more. I’m thinking $25k max if I find the right buyer.

As a contrast a friend of my wife’s was looking to get a used Honda CR-V EX-L, 2015 or 2016. Those things appraised at $24k or more and new they are $31k. It was a better deal for her to buy a 2018 MY.

Well, this will be my last Audi. I’ll keep it until it becomes too expensive to maintain. Don’t think I’ve seen a car drop this much in value so quickly. Not sure if the B9 caused this or if it’s just a European car thing.

Also insurance is crazy expensive on these. The Audi is 3 years old, worth about $20k according to the experts and it still costs more to insure than my brand new rubicon.

[adamazing]

Don’t think I’ve seen a car drop this much in value so quickly.

Ahahaaha, have you ever purchased a Mitsubishi Eclipse, brand new? YOU DON'T KNOW DEPRECIATION LIKE I DO.


All jokes aside, the trade-in value isn't just based on the quality of the car make or model, it's primarily driven by the market available to re-sell it. Those CR-V's have a WAY larger demographic for second hand sales than any A4 does. It also doesn't help that you bought a model at the end of it's generation. As soon as the B9's launched, the value of the B8 in general took a hit across the board.

I'm actually surprised Carmax quoted more than the dealer did.

[doady22]

Well think about it like this, if sticker on the car is $49k, there is probably $4k in markup and $1500 in holdback, if you had an audi before there was probably loyalty of $1000. So cost of the car new was $42,500. Residual value on a new 2018 A4 MSRP $44,310 is 55% if you apply that to the car you bought and its cost of $42500 @ 55% you'd be looking at roughly $23,375. You are correct in the fact you'd probably got closer to $23-24k trade in plus you wouldn't of paid tax on the trade difference @7% sales tax on 23k trade is an additional $1610 in tax savings bringing your vehicle to closer to $25k. Ask me how I know...I work at a dealership and the difference between someone trading in their car or us buying it off the street is usually $2-3k less depending on the model. But there is good news, your Rubicon will have an outstanding re-sale value, better then anything on the market so good job on doing it right there.

[alhutch]

Been away for awhile.
Love my Audi A4. It’s my third Audi as well. However just picked up a new Jeep Wrangler Rubicon and was thinking of selling the A4. Initially wanted to keep it, but makes no sense for us right now to have three cars. Eventual plan was to move my wife into a Q7 as our Honda Pilot is too big song ethe kids are older now and will be moving out of the house.

Well it’s a 2015 A4 fully loaded with the competition package they were throwing on before the remodel. Took it to carmax and an Audi dealer for an appraisal after checking various online price guides. It has 39,000 miles and is in near perfect condition.
Carmax quoted $20,500 and the dealer was at $19,500.

Insane that a car the stickered at $49k gets less than half it’s value as it nears three years old. I’m sure if I were trading it in on a new Audi the dealership would have worked with me a bit. Or if I sell it privately I could get a bit more. I’m thinking $25k max if I find the right buyer.

As a contrast a friend of my wife’s was looking to get a used Honda CR-V EX-L, 2015 or 2016. Those things appraised at $24k or more and new they are $31k. It was a better deal for her to buy a 2018 MY.

Well, this will be my last Audi. I’ll keep it until it becomes too expensive to maintain. Don’t think I’ve seen a car drop this much in value so quickly. Not sure if the B9 caused this or if it’s just a European car thing.

Also insurance is crazy expensive on these. The Audi is 3 years old, worth about $20k according to the experts and it still costs more to insure than my brand new rubicon.

It's a sedan thing. You are comparing it to other SUVs, not other competitive market segment sedans. Check a similarly spec'd Q5 or Allroad.

KBB says a "very good" 2015 Q5 P+ 2.0T w/ 40k miles has a trade in value between $24-25k. Private party is $27.5-28.5k.

A "very good" 2015 Allroad P+ w/ 40k miles has a trade in value between $25.5-26.5k. Private party is $28.2-29.4k.

The market is punishing sedans, due to reduced demand. Not just an Audi problem.

[adamazing]

The market is punishing sedans, due to reduced demand. Not just an Audi problem.

True that, America has an unhealthy fascination with Crossovers. It's destroying nearly every other market segment. Soon, we're just gonna be a nation of bloated, 4-door crossovers on sedan platforms.

[adamazing]

True that, America has an unhealthy fascination with Crossovers. It's destroying nearly every other market segment. Soon, we're just gonna be a nation of bloated, 4-door crossovers on sedan platforms.

*Queue jokes about the A4 being a bloated, 4-door sedan on a sedan platform. Lol

[doc_oc]

Let's talk in 3 years about the resale value of that Rubicon.:(
The reality is that there are so many incentives on new cars, that sticker price is deceiving.

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[JDinsmore]

The Rubicon will probably have better resale value in the future. I was just looking at them over the weekend and a 2010 with 80k miles and the usual wear and tear with scratches, dents, and a rusty frame was listed at $20k. My 2012 38k mile A4 is much better interior and exterior condition wouldn't even be listed at $20k. People love SUV's and will pay for them.

[mtroxel]

TPeople love SUV's and will pay for them.

Recent Car & Driver review of the new Cayenne:

It took Porsche 53 years to sell a million 911s. Porsche has sold 770,000 Cayennes in the 15 years since it was launched in 2002, and the millionth will probably be built in about three years. As much as we love and cherish the sports cars from Stuttgart, Porsche in the 21st century is the house that the Cayenne SUV built.

[Spawne32]

In reality, the a4 is nothing more then a passat, having those rings in the front and back just makes us feel better about ourselves like as if we drive fancy cars. Its a 4 cylinder econo sedan. That being said, still love/hate my car.

[Marko S]

https://www.bankrate.com/auto/6-top-...-resale-value/

If you care about resale buy one of those.

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[kjeeper10]

Welcome to the jeep world come visit me on wrangler Forum :)

[audrobotic]

In reality, the a4 is nothing more then a passat, having those rings in the front and back just makes us feel better about ourselves like as if we drive fancy cars. Its a 4 cylinder econo sedan. That being said, still love/hate my car.

I have a current gen turbo Passat. Believe me - if it had Audi rings I would still hate it.

[Spawne32]

I have a current gen turbo Passat. Believe me - if it had Audi rings I would still hate it.

If you had a B8 youd hate it too lol

[BeerBrent]

If your patient, you can definitely sell it for more thank $20k on your own/private party.

[audrobotic]

If you had a B8 youd hate it too lol

I do drive the B8 (a few days a week) and the Passat the rest of the time. The Audi is at 61k miles and I’m hoping it’ll last until 150k. (Shooting for the stars!). The Passat is a lease and I’m counting down the days.

[Spawne32]

I do drive the B8 (a few days a week) and the Passat the rest of the time. The Audi is at 61k miles and I’m hoping it’ll last until 150k. (Shooting for the stars!). The Passat is a lease and I’m counting down the days.

If you take care of all the things that cause these cars to go boom, i think you could make it there easy.

[saejin]

Wow, thanks for all the feedback. Here’s some additional details.
A4 stickered for $48k, I paid roughly $43k before taxes. I had a rebate as well from owning an Acura RDX. I did have a trade in valued at $32k which knocked my taxes down quite a bit. It was actually a 2013 Jeep Wrangler. See where this is headed.

I guess when it’s all said and done, getting around $24k for it would be fair. Understand that sedans are a dying breed here even though some people will drop $70-$90k on a dodge demon or hellcat or vette...etc

Was just over in Germany last month and not a single SUV could be seen except for the occasional US military members who ship theirs over while stationed there. Germans love sedans and especially Avants with rooftop carriers. Couple of Tiguans was seen and maybe a Q5 once and a while. But not the oversized ones we have here.

On the Rubicon. It stickered at $54,365 and I was out the door at $49,300 with tags. I took care of taxes separately.

I drove the A4 today after driving the Rubicon for a week. I may keep the A4 as a commuter for now. The Rubicon is comfy, but the A4 is a much smoother and fast car of course.

And while in Germany I visited the Porsche museum. Big mistake as I’ve been looking at them every once and while. Trading the A4 in for one could knock the price down to something I could afford especially a used certified one.

[saejin]

I guess I just expected a bit more value out of the A4 given its initial cost and quality compared to others. Probably won’t buy another one though. Hope this one last awhile. Plus it was the wife’s idea to sell it so now this gives me an excuse to keep it a bit longer. I do like driving it.

[saejin]

Let's talk in 3 years about the resale value of that Rubicon.:(
The reality is that there are so many incentives on new cars, that sticker price is deceiving.

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I wish Wranglers had incentives. That vehicle is a cash cow for FCA. It’s probably got the highest profit margin of any vehicle they sell. And they can’t build them fast enough to keep up with demand. Now that the new model is out everyone who never thought to look at a Jeep is buying them. I hope that goes away as it will saturate the market. I don’t think it will hurt resale value, but it may hurt the brand. For the previous model people would buy it for the looks or the status, then quickly realize they couldn’t stand how it drove. The new version corrected many of those issues, so those same buyers are back in droves.

I loved my 2013 Wrangler and only traded it in out of necessity. Happy to be back in one again.

[audrobotic]

I guess I just expected a bit more value out of the A4 given its initial cost and quality compared to others. Probably won’t buy another one though. Hope this one last awhile. Plus it was the wife’s idea to sell it so now this gives me an excuse to keep it a bit longer. I do like driving it.

Yeah Audi residual values have always been mediocre. Losing 50% of value in three years is pretty common for a lot of cars. Wranglers are another story. I think theyre in Tacoma terriorty.

As for the A4...Turo?

[saejin]

Turo...not around here. I’m in the DC/Maryland/Virginia area. Everyone drives like crap around here.

[a4efforts]

Not saying you should trade in your A4, but a Porsche is an excellent choice. My Macan is a fun little crossover (I know I'm feeding into the crossover boom).

Now on the value issue, it is sad how much the A4s lose value. I have an '09 Prestige that is maybe worth 7k? Sad to think about it, but I love the car although it has 139k miles.

[tominabox1]

Sold my 2005 4runner with 140k miles for $6500 to fund my '14 A4, which I bought in October for 40% of original sticker price. Hopefully it lasts me a few years.... I'll probably ditch it before I get to 100k miles though

[vdubjetta02]

BMW 335 was one of the fastest depreciating cars I have ever witnessed..... don't be too bummed over an A4... this is standard in the european market.

*This is case and point why all 10 of my european cars I have bought after the initial 3-4 year depreciation hit. I let other people take the hit and I grab a nice CPO warrantied car for half the price

(With exception to my Golf R, which I bought new and it only depreciated $5k in 3 years due to be an R model)

[PreciseD]

My 2004 BMW 745Li fully loaded was $119k new and after putting 107k miles I traded it in and all I could get was $3k lol... It is known as the worst depreciating car to date and a total POS which is why I would never buy another BMW...

Lesson here is never buy a new car, let some other sucker pay for the depreciation...

I just picked up a 2015 A4 CPO for $20k out the door for my commuter car and last year I got a 2014 Q5 3.0t CPO for $34k out the door... basically half of what they cost new...

[khj677turbo]

Silver Audi A4 with a competition pack? I bet it wouldnt last long in the Audizine Classifieds, and you can get the PP value you want from it.

[LTopher]

Lesson here is never buy a new car, let some other sucker pay for the depreciation...

This. As with any rule there are exceptions, such as Jeep Wranglers and Subaru WRXs which hold their resale value.

I like to buy slightly used cars and use the money I saved to buy upgrades/mods. Trade-in value is worthless to me though since I run my cars well past the planned obsolescence date.

[mtroxel]

European cars are expensive to service. So the average guy who runs to the dealer 2-3 times/year, can't afford to buy a 100,000 mile European car.

So, if you can do your own work, you can get a real bargain from the run-to-the-dealer crowd.

[PreciseD]

This. As with any rule there are exceptions, such as Jeep Wranglers and Subaru WRXs which hold their resale value.

I like to buy slightly used cars and use the money I saved to buy upgrades/mods. Trade-in value is worthless to me though since I run my cars well past the planned obsolescence date.

100% agree.. It is amazing how well the Jeep Wranglers hold their value.. I have seen some people sell them for more than they paid for them new!!! And yes the STI model does very well, as it should since its a limited production model...

[PreciseD]

European cars are expensive to service. So the average guy who runs to the dealer 2-3 times/year, can't afford to buy a 100,000 mile European car.

So, if you can do your own work, you can get a real bargain from the run-to-the-dealer crowd.

The reason they are so expensive to service is this is the only way they make money stateside... These cars are being sold at cost here to be competitive with Japanese "luxury" models....

[MSq5]

True that, America has an unhealthy fascination with Crossovers. It's destroying nearly every other market segment. Soon, we're just gonna be a nation of bloated, 4-door crossovers on sedan platforms.

Bloated? Small SUVs like my Q5 that run 12 second quarters, can haul huge amounts of cargo, have ground clearance sufficient for trails and moderate off-roading, can tow 6,000 pounds, and, yes, greater resale value. Audi merely figured out how to make the A4 platform more versatile and practical while retaining most of its virtues.

[PreciseD]

Bloated? Small SUVs like my Q5 that run 12 second quarters, can haul huge amounts of cargo, have ground clearance sufficient for trails and moderate off-roading, can tow 6,000 pounds, and, yes, greater resale value. Audi merely figured out how to make the A4 platform more versatile and practical while retaining most of its virtues.

Going to have to agree.. I love our Q5 and while it's only EPL stage 1 it still moves and surprises many sedans that think they can take it...

[captain_video]

This thread just reinforces why I never buy new cars anymore. I try to buy leased vehicles for several reasons.

1. They're usually only three years old.

2. They generally have between 30-40k miles on them.

3. They're always clean.

4. They've been well maintained.

5. They sell at a much lower price than new, usually for around the balance of the principal on a loan if you had purchased a new vehicle and financed it for 5-6 years, which is apparently the norm these days.

Granted, the manufacturer's warranty may be at or near the end, but if that bothers you there's always an extended warranty available for peace of mind. As for that, I've never got out of an extended warranty what I put into it so they're usually not worth it, IMHO. As long as you are aware of any potential problems with your particular vehicle and take the appropriate measures and perform preventative maintenance, your Audi should last a very long time.

[adamazing]

Bloated? Small SUVs like my Q5 that run 12 second quarters, can haul huge amounts of cargo, have ground clearance sufficient for trails and moderate off-roading, can tow 6,000 pounds, and, yes, greater resale value. Audi merely figured out how to make the A4 platform more versatile and practical while retaining most of its virtues.

Don't take it personal. I love Q5's, I'd buy one if I was shopping for a small SUV - but I also I don't pretend it's anything more than a bigger A4 with a higher center of gravity.
But it doesn't change the fact that manufacturers have found a honey pot in the American market, and a essentially a license to print money by simply taking their smallest and cheapest platforms, increase the ground clearance a bit, and make the body panels taller/larger.

Mercedes is doing it - GLA's on a CLA platform.
Audi is doing it - Q3's (you can throw in the Q5's if you want to split hairs).
BMW is doing it - X1 and X3 are built on 1 and 3 series chassis.
Mazda is doing it - CX3's and 5's and built on their sedan counetrparts.
Subaru is doing it - Crosstrek is built on an Imprezza chassis
Lexus is doing it - NX is built on the Rav-4 platform
Alfa is doing it - Stelvio is a bigger Guilia.
Buick is doing it - Encore is built on a Checy Sonic/Aveo platform
Even Mitsubishi is resurrecting the Eclipse name in blasphemous fashion as a crossover

All these crossovers are wedged into a new, booming market segment between sedans and traditional SUV's, while still being built on top of their entry-level (relative) chassis counterparts - and the American market is driving the trend more than anywhere else in the world. So much so that it's eating away at the sedan market and changing the product strategy plan for manufacturers in the US.

This isn't me bashing crossovers, so don't take my comments personal. This is just truth. It's what's been happening to the US Market over the past 5 years or so, and it isn't slowing down.

[LTopher]

This thread just reinforces why I never buy new cars anymore. I try to buy leased vehicles for several reasons.

1. They're usually only three years old.

2. They generally have between 30-40k miles on them.

3. They're always clean.

4. They've been well maintained.

5. They sell at a much lower price than new, usually for around the balance of the principal on a loan if you had purchased a new vehicle and financed it for 5-6 years, which is apparently the norm these days.

Granted, the manufacturer's warranty may be at or near the end, but if that bothers you there's always an extended warranty available for peace of mind. As for that, I've never got out of an extended warranty what I put into it so they're usually not worth it, IMHO. As long as you are aware of any potential problems with your particular vehicle and take the appropriate measures and perform preventative maintenance, your Audi should last a very long time.

Where do you buy leased vehicles from? Sounds easier/quicker than searching the used car lot for a needle in a haystack.

[PreciseD]

Where do you buy leased vehicles from? Sounds easier/quicker than searching the used car lot for a needle in a haystack.

I think he means cars that are for sale that are lease turn in... Pretty much every Audi CPO car is a lease turn in...

[SleeperCar]

OP, one key issue in why the B8.5 is losing value, the B9 just came out, and it has much better tech and its selling.

[MSq5]

Don't take it personal. I love Q5's, I'd buy one if I was shopping for a small SUV - but I also I don't pretend it's anything more than a bigger A4 with a higher center of gravity.
But it doesn't change the fact that manufacturers have found a honey pot in the American market, and a essentially a license to print money by simply taking their smallest and cheapest platforms, increase the ground clearance a bit, and make the body panels taller/larger.

Mercedes is doing it - GLA's on a CLA platform.
Audi is doing it - Q3's (you can throw in the Q5's if you want to split hairs).
BMW is doing it - X1 and X3 are built on 1 and 3 series chassis.
Mazda is doing it - CX3's and 5's and built on their sedan counetrparts.
Subaru is doing it - Crosstrek is built on an Imprezza chassis
Lexus is doing it - NX is built on the Rav-4 platform
Alfa is doing it - Stelvio is a bigger Guilia.
Buick is doing it - Encore is built on a Checy Sonic/Aveo platform
Even Mitsubishi is resurrecting the Eclipse name in blasphemous fashion as a crossover

All these crossovers are wedged into a new, booming market segment between sedans and traditional SUV's, while still being built on top of their entry-level (relative) chassis counterparts - and the American market is driving the trend more than anywhere else in the world. So much so that it's eating away at the sedan market and changing the product strategy plan for manufacturers in the US.

This isn't me bashing crossovers, so don't take my comments personal. This is just truth. It's what's been happening to the US Market over the past 5 years or so, and it isn't slowing down.

Nothing taken personally. The market has responded to needs. The small SUVs are simply more practical and versatile. Easier to get in and exit, too. Its not a fad, either. No going back.

For a while small hatchbacks with hot engines were gaining momentum because of their versatility (my other car is a modified Mazdaspeed 3 with about 350 crank horsepower), but they, too, have given way to the small SUVs.

Heck, Q5/SQ5s with the 3.0 TFSI are now into the 11s with dual pulley Stage 2 tunes and cooling upgrades. I'm mid-12s and planning to step up to that. Only about $1,500-1800 more from where I am now. Its not just sheet metal and ground clearance, either. We have Brembo brakes, wider wheels and tires.

[captain_video]

Where do you buy leased vehicles from? Sounds easier/quicker than searching the used car lot for a needle in a haystack.

Most used cars will have a CarFax that you can access. It will indicate whether or not the vehicle has been leased. If you're buying from a dealer they should be able to tell you if a vehicle had been leased. If not you can order a CarFax report for any vehicle if you have the VIN number. Ebay is a great source for used cars, but you have to be aware of who you're buying from. I've bought four Audis and two VW Passats through ebay and only had one bad experience. Two of the Audis and both VWs had to be shipped from out of state. One Audi was sold by an auction house that was within an hour's drive. The other Audi was listed by a local dealer so we bought it directly from them. We recently bought a 2014 Q7 from a dealer that had been leased. One of the Passats had also been leased. One Audi was a repossession by the bank but it was in showroom mint condition.

I tend to keep cars for a very long time so I don't expect the resale value to be all that much when I'm done with them. I only think of a car as transportation, not an investment. I keep them long enough to get my money's worth out of them. When they get to the point where things start breaking down and they require more frequent maintenance and parts start getting more expensive then it's time to get rid of them. I usually end up donating my cars to charity and take the tax write-off instead of getting fleeced by a dealership for a trade-in.