Drive System Malfunction

[NardoGreyRS3]

So I was driving home from work yesterday and go stuck in a traffic jam from major accident. Very slow stop and go for about 30 mins. I was not really paying attention to anything with car, and all of a sudden I got a double alert on the dash “Drive System Malfunction, Please Contact Service” and the engine speed limited alert you usually get at start up, only it was limited to 4000RPM! Total limp mode. I then immediately noticed my engine temp was 226 F. I drive the rest of the way home, and the temp came down to a normal 200 range, but the alerts and rev limit remained. I shut the car off in my driveway, waited a min then turned it back on. Alerts gone and everything normal. Drive to work and everything normal. Mind you, I am in the Northeast where it is still 28 degrees!
I’m worried now, what about traffic in the summer?
I thought maybe my unitronic flash could be causing it but in searching around forums it appears A3, S3,A4s have all had a version of this issue.
Anyone experience similar issue? And ideas? I don’t want to bring to the idiots at Audi to use my RS3 as a lab rat.....




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[QuattroRS3]

So I was driving home from work yesterday and go stuck in a traffic jam from major accident. Very slow stop and go for about 30 mins. I was not really paying attention to anything with car, and all of a sudden I got a double alert on the dash “Drive System Malfunction, Please Contact Service” and the engine speed limited alert you usually get at start up, only it was limited to 4000RPM! Total limp mode. I then immediately noticed my engine temp was 226 F. I drive the rest of the way home, and the temp came down to a normal 200 range, but the alerts and rev limit remained. I shut the car off in my driveway, waited a min then turned it back on. Alerts gone and everything normal. Drive to work and everything normal. Mind you, I am in the Northeast where it is still 28 degrees!
I’m worried now, what about traffic in the summer?
I thought maybe my unitronic flash could be causing it but in searching around forums it appears A3, S3,A4s have all had a version of this issue.
Anyone experience similar issue? And ideas? I don’t want to bring to the idiots at Audi to use my RS3 as a lab rat.....




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That sucks man! But def sounds a lot like what a few other guys have experienced, which you will find on the "Gas in engine oil" thread which is a few posts below this one. Likely looking at replacing your fuel pump, but just go there and read up on it as everyone who had that come up was after sitting in traffic for about 30 mins.

[clubberlang06]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-Idle-(Bank-1)

Thar ye go, enjoy.

[DQBRS3]

So I was driving home from work yesterday and go stuck in a traffic jam from major accident. Very slow stop and go for about 30 mins. I was not really paying attention to anything with car, and all of a sudden I got a double alert on the dash “Drive System Malfunction, Please Contact Service” and the engine speed limited alert you usually get at start up, only it was limited to 4000RPM! Total limp mode. I then immediately noticed my engine temp was 226 F. I drive the rest of the way home, and the temp came down to a normal 200 range, but the alerts and rev limit remained. I shut the car off in my driveway, waited a min then turned it back on. Alerts gone and everything normal. Drive to work and everything normal. Mind you, I am in the Northeast where it is still 28 degrees!
I’m worried now, what about traffic in the summer?
I thought maybe my unitronic flash could be causing it but in searching around forums it appears A3, S3,A4s have all had a version of this issue.
Anyone experience similar issue? And ideas? I don’t want to bring to the idiots at Audi to use my RS3 as a lab rat.....




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Same situation and results, lots of owners have been experiencing similar. Mines been sitting at the deal for ~2 months waiting for fix. Fortunately, you got lucky with timing as Audi is (supposedly) releasing software patch to dealers next week. With any luck you'll be back on the road in no time!

[IceAero]

That sucks man! But def sounds a lot like what a few other guys have experienced, which you will find on the "Gas in engine oil" thread which is a few posts below this one. Likely looking at replacing your fuel pump, but just go there and read up on it as everyone who had that come up was after sitting in traffic for about 30 mins.

Yeah but basically no one actually had excess fuel in their oil.

I'm still very curious why the oil temp goes as high as it does...it's clearly a non-standard operational condition that the engine somehow finds itself in. Obviously idling in traffic on a cold day should not generate more heat than can be dissipated.

EDIT: Speaking of the engine and it's operation, has anyone come across the official technical overview of the engine? Typically Audi produces one for their techs to learn the systems of the engine, and it can be quite helpful for us in diagnosing issues. As an engineer with a background in combustion, I want to know every detail of how my engine works :)

[NardoGreyRS3]

That sucks. Thanks DQBRS3.


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[WAF]

Yeah but basically no one actually had excess fuel in their oil.

I'm still very curious why the oil temp goes as high as it does...it's clearly a non-standard operational condition that the engine somehow finds itself in. Obviously idling in traffic on a cold day should not generate more heat than can be dissipated.

EDIT: Speaking of the engine and it's operation, has anyone come across the official technical overview of the engine? Typically Audi produces one for their techs to learn the systems of the engine, and it can be quite helpful for us in diagnosing issues. As an engineer with a background in combustion, I want to know every detail of how my engine works :)

Yup happen 3 times in winter idling. Diagnose was unable to recreate error,no oil in gas and error code was a low pressure fuel error. No one seems sure of the fix but its a common issue now is correct for a bunch.

[Paul@SupremePower]

Yeah but basically no one actually had excess fuel in their oil.

I'm still very curious why the oil temp goes as high as it does...it's clearly a non-standard operational condition that the engine somehow finds itself in. Obviously idling in traffic on a cold day should not generate more heat than can be dissipated.

EDIT: Speaking of the engine and it's operation, has anyone come across the official technical overview of the engine? Typically Audi produces one for their techs to learn the systems of the engine, and it can be quite helpful for us in diagnosing issues. As an engineer with a background in combustion, I want to know every detail of how my engine works :)

On the tech manual I’ve had one for my last 3 VAG cars. Really a great resource to have. The last 2 I was able to get through torrent sites on line since they aren’t openly available. It may take some time but I’m sure the new 2.5 one will be out. I’ve seen screenshots of the pfl 2.5; no complete manual yet but I haven’t actively tried much either.

[srtviperjr]

I had the same thing in the middle of winter after being stuck in traffic for 20-30 mins. Wondering if it's DSG heat transferring to the engine? Lots of start/stop without much airflow might be a cause. I'll be raising the question in 3-4k at my first service.

[nesbit]

So I was driving home from work yesterday and go stuck in a traffic jam from major accident. Very slow stop and go for about 30 mins. I was not really paying attention to anything with car, and all of a sudden I got a double alert on the dash “Drive System Malfunction, Please Contact Service” and the engine speed limited alert you usually get at start up, only it was limited to 4000RPM! Total limp mode. I then immediately noticed my engine temp was 226 F. I drive the rest of the way home, and the temp came down to a normal 200 range, but the alerts and rev limit remained. I shut the car off in my driveway, waited a min then turned it back on. Alerts gone and everything normal. Drive to work and everything normal. Mind you, I am in the Northeast where it is still 28 degrees!
I’m worried now, what about traffic in the summer?
I thought maybe my unitronic flash could be causing it but in searching around forums it appears A3, S3,A4s have all had a version of this issue.
Anyone experience similar issue? And ideas? I don’t want to bring to the idiots at Audi to use my RS3 as a lab rat.....




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I know SpaTech had a temperature rise + CEL. They worked on his car, changing pressure regulators or something... and while he still got more CELs, I think his temperature problem didn't return.

[shivaswrath]

So I was driving home from work yesterday and go stuck in a traffic jam from major accident. Very slow stop and go for about 30 mins. I was not really paying attention to anything with car, and all of a sudden I got a double alert on the dash “Drive System Malfunction, Please Contact Service” and the engine speed limited alert you usually get at start up, only it was limited to 4000RPM! Total limp mode. I then immediately noticed my engine temp was 226 F. I drive the rest of the way home, and the temp came down to a normal 200 range, but the alerts and rev limit remained. I shut the car off in my driveway, waited a min then turned it back on. Alerts gone and everything normal. Drive to work and everything normal. Mind you, I am in the Northeast where it is still 28 degrees!
I’m worried now, what about traffic in the summer?
I thought maybe my unitronic flash could be causing it but in searching around forums it appears A3, S3,A4s have all had a version of this issue.
Anyone experience similar issue? And ideas? I don’t want to bring to the idiots at Audi to use my RS3 as a lab rat.....




Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

Normal. Car does this If idled in traffic for too long.

[lalalaprise]

Normal. Car does this If idled in traffic for too long.

I really wouldn't use the term "Normal" for this kind of behaviour

[Soopaman15]

I've logged 8k miles on the car. Have had the same issue multiple times. All in traffic and oil temps at 222+. In the northeast as well. Happens while idling in traffic on 495 on my way home. At 5k had oil changed and I think dealer replaced a fuel sensor when I told them of this problem. It has happened once or twice since then. A quick re-start of the car and the alerts go away. Seems to be SOP for our car.

[PowerStroke]

Normal. Car does this If idled in traffic for too long.

Just because a bunch of people are experiencing this problem doesn't mean it's normal.

[stanglife]

No idea but just wanted to say that 225ish isn't a horrible oil temp. My RS4 runs at almost exactly that, all the time. Cruising might see it down to 2-teens. I've always understood that you want oil temps to get above the boiling point of water to ensure no moisture remains.


This reminds me of when I was a kid and they did emissions testing here in FL. I had a 90 Mustang that was converted to carb. It would NEVER pass an emissions test (they don't care, visually - just needs to pass the sniffer). I had a bud of mine at a shop put it on the wideband and adjusted the timing, idle and mixture so that it ran so hot at idle, the cats were hyperactive hot and very low emissions. Had to go have to him to put it back to normal after. But the car ran SOOOO hot and lean (radiator had a hard time keeping up). I wonder if VAG is maybe doing something similar with the tune to lower emissions at idle/low-load operation? Just thinking out loud.

[motopix]

I've always understood that you want oil temps to get above the boiling point of water to ensure no moisture remains.

Put some water in a pot on the stove. Water is driven off far below the boiling point.

[timzcat]

Now add motor oil, is the water still driven off?

[motopix]

Now add motor oil, is the water still driven off?

It's not going to change the temperature that water starts evaporating at.

[Potatohead_RS3]

225 is not hot. People need to understand modern cars run hotter than the past, it’s more efficient and synthetic oil doesn’t have issues until well over 280 at least. Nothing out there is running 180 degree oil and water temps anymore.

[NardoGreyRS3]

Ok, clearly a true issue on our cars. Apologies that the "fuel in the oil" thread didnt pop out at me as the same thing, but I read it and it clearly is. Good to know about the oil temp, but FYI im at 7500 miles and most of the time the car hovers at 200 - 208F, even when I get on it for a while. Because Im tuned, Im not really sure what my next step will be with this, ie going to Audi. Will be thinking about it....

[IceAero]

225 is not hot. People need to understand modern cars run hotter than the past, it’s more efficient and synthetic oil doesn’t have issues until well over 280 at least. Nothing out there is running 180 degree oil and water temps anymore.

This is true, BUT...

I've driven this car in all conditions... -5 F to almost 100 F, in traffic, in the city, and on long drives, and never Once has my oil temp risen above 210 degrees. If I suddenly saw that it reached 226, and I went into limp mode, and I would absolutely think that the two are connected.

[Potatohead_RS3]

This is true, BUT...

I've driven this car in all conditions... -5 F to almost 100 F, in traffic, in the city, and on long drives, and never Once has my oil temp risen above 210 degrees. If I suddenly saw that it reached 226, and I went into limp mode, and I would absolutely think that the two are connected.

Correlation is not causation though, so unless you can replicate that over and over again, it's just a guess. It's no different than having a tire pressure light come on before it happening and blaming a low tire for it.

I'd have to double check how the oil cooler is designed and if there is a fuel cooler, and if they are connected in any way, because it is possible higher oil temps means higher fuel temps which could cause it, but again that is a guess.

[timzcat]

I agree that temperature is not surprising. The car has an oil cooler mostly due to it's ability to produce lots of heat given engine compartments nowadays and the turbo, which is also in a zero airflow area (behind engine) when sitting still. If the car is moving then those temperatures would be more surprising. One would assume that if they thought here was ample cooling they wouldn't have gone through the trouble of programming up the 'turbo timer' which is one of the best features they added to the car.

The older 2.5 tech info shows the sensor on the pan at the backside, right near the turbo/exhaust. Therefore it could just be heat soak after the extended idle time.

[lalalaprise]

'turbo timer'

Can you explain this to me?

[Potatohead_RS3]

Can you explain this to me?

There is a small coolant pump that continues to pump coolant through the turbo for about five minutes after the engine is shut off. Your GTI’s had one too:)

[lalalaprise]

There is a small coolant pump that continues to pump coolant through the turbo for about five minutes after the engine is shut off. Your GTI’s had one too:)

Yes... loved hearing it hum after shutting her down. I tend to drive it more relaxed as I get closer to the destination... helps cool things down as well.

[shivaswrath]

I really wouldn't use the term "Normal" for this kind of behaviour

I was being sarcastic...I agree. I was in dead of winter in back to back traffic when this first happened to me...the oil temp and coolant kept rising, I decided to just get out of traffic when I got to 220 so it wouldn't limp.

[Soopaman15]

As I mentioned before I've had this issue occur 5+ times all in the same conditions.

Always on my way home from work. Commute is around 35 miles. It occurs after sitting in rush hour traffic. The oil temp rises from 198/200 - 220/222. Once the oil temp reaches 220 it's only a matter of time for the car to go in limp mode. After 25-30 minutes at 220 the car goes into limp mode. Car is usually on an incline when it happens.

[NardoGreyRS3]

What is normal oil temp on this car? Ive had mine since last August, 7300mi and it varies from 198 - 210, when this limp mode thing isnt happening.

[srtviperjr]

If the car didn't go all limp by hitting those temps I would agree it may be "normal" the fact that it sets off warnings and alarms indicates that they don't want it running that hot.

Wonder what the dealer will say at my first service - likely look at me with a blank stare, but here's hoping! lol

[OE2]

Setrab upgraded oil cooler seems to be in order.

[turillo]

Same situation and results, lots of owners have been experiencing similar. Mines been sitting at the deal for ~2 months waiting for fix. Fortunately, you got lucky with timing as Audi is (supposedly) releasing software patch to dealers next week. With any luck you'll be back on the road in no time!

My RS3 has been grounded at the service center for more than 3 weeks due to this issue. I'm beyond unimpressed and better have my car back soon. I appreciate and respect the Q5 they loaned me in lieu, but I'm overcooked now and want my car back.

Audi and I are going to have a chat when all said and done...

[nesbit]

My RS3 has been grounded at the service center for more than 3 weeks due to this issue. I'm beyond unimpressed and better have my car back soon. I appreciate and respect the Q5 they loaned me in lieu, but I'm overcooked now and want my car back.

Audi and I are going to have a chat when all said and done...

Supposedly people on the "Port stop order" thread are getting their cars, presumably with a flash upgrade. Has anyone with an existing car and limp mode also had an upgrade?

[SpaTech]

I’ve bug my service advisor weekly ... as of last week he said “couple more weeks” :-/

[18NogaroRS3]

I’ve been having the issue since December. I have been nice and keep getting told in a couple weeks. It’s now almost April and nothing. They promised to reimburse me payments till car is fixed, so I said fair. Today I get a check for only a month. I hate Audi corporate liars.

They said it’s the best they can do.

It’s scary cause the cars can just die in the middle of traffic with no warning. Scary and dangerous as I almost caused a pileup on the highway once. I’ve warned them but they don’t seem to care.

If I get rear ended I will have a big lawsuit. It seriously needs to get fixed. I hate feeling unsafe in a brand new 65k car.

[18NogaroRS3]

My car has also stalled in traffic while driving numerous times. It’s been to the dealer 3 times as I drove a loaner for a month too. Nothing to fix they say.

[nesbit]

I’ve been having the issue since December. I have been nice and keep getting told in a couple weeks. It’s now almost April and nothing. They promised to reimburse me payments till car is fixed, so I said fair. Today I get a check for only a month. I hate Audi corporate liars.

They said it’s the best they can do.

It’s scary cause the cars can just die in the middle of traffic with no warning. Scary and dangerous as I almost caused a pileup on the highway once. I’ve warned them but they don’t seem to care.

If I get rear ended I will have a big lawsuit. It seriously needs to get fixed. I hate feeling unsafe in a brand new 65k car.

Lemon law?

[WAF]

Lemon law?

At least there's that option for those in the States, no such thing in Canada.

[Paul@SupremePower]

At least there's that option for those in the States, no such thing in Canada.

What? Really?

What recourse is there in such a situation? Litigation?

[rocco20v]

I just experienced this for the first time tonight. I'm at 5k miles and was sitting in rush hour traffic when it happened.

Has anyone found a fix for this yet?