Results of measuring timing chain stretch via cam phaser adaptation.

[Theiceman]

I did but no hit. The same VCDS found the setting for 2 other 2010 EA888 engines, just not his 2009.

i shouldn't ask such a stupid question of you , but... i'm gonna ...

are you sure its a TFSi engine ? and not the FSI ? in the cab i think the FSI went one more year.. i have checked many 09 engines and have it pop up , so it was worth mentioning.

[4xaudi]

2nd owner bought at 109k. prior service history shows no evidence of chain replacement

[earhythmic]

old style chain
maybe just the tensioner was changed at some point?
In any case, thats great

That I CAN confirm. New tensioner installed ~85k miles at the same time as installing my FluidAmper …and fixing a blown rocker.

Just for added stretch info, balance shaft chain old vs new:

[Lizard 1]

So, bought my 2013 Allroad with 165k on the odometer. Previous owner was unsure when timing service was done, but in his ownership, it was never done... I decided to make sure this lasts a longer life and did the timing service. Before the service, it was at -4.4384766. A lot of Audis get to -4.6 and start throwing codes from what I have seen so, was a good time to get it done.

When finished, she is sitting at -1.1206055

Checked turbo and everything else and she is right as rain. Hoping to get a lot of miles and smiles on this one.

[Theiceman]

So, bought my 2013 Allroad with 165k on the odometer. Previous owner was unsure when timing service was done, but in his ownership, it was never done... I decided to make sure this lasts a longer life and did the timing service. Before the service, it was at -4.4384766. A lot of Audis get to -4.6 and start throwing codes from what I have seen so, was a good time to get it done.

When finished, she is sitting at -1.1206055

Checked turbo and everything else and she is right as rain. Hoping to get a lot of miles and smiles on this one.

actually it is super rare to get codes from this , that is why we must stay on top of it .. i was at -8.5, had no codes and it went like a scalded cat...

[silver_tt]

Ya usually the car will have a hard time/ long start on cold start before you will even get codes, amazingly…….

[Peter.dupuis]

Image1677001329.413638.jpg

2014 Allroad with 70k miles.


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[Theiceman]

Image1677001329.413638.jpg

2014 Allroad with 70k miles.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

good result , by 100k you will be ready.

[earhythmic]

That’ll do

[bb-tt]

That’ll do

should i start to worry now

[JLAllroad]

That’ll do

So how many notches does that equate to on a brand new tensioner and chain?


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[earhythmic]

So how many notches does that equate to on a brand new tensioner and chain?


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4th notch

[DeeInSeatown]

Joining the party...2014 A4 Prem+, 86k miles. Got a 10425/2387 fault that may be related to the timing chain stretch? Pulled these values tonight. Don't know where the tensioner is on the notch scale.

IMG_4119.jpeg

So doc, how bad is it? Is this a solid indicator that a timing chain/tensioner update is in my future if I don't want a busted up engine? I've only skimmed parts of this 49 pages of content.

[silver_tt]

It is very bad. You need to do the timing immediately.

[findalex]

Based on what I've read over the last 10 years I've had my A5, you should start preparing for it when it reaches 4, and definitely by 5. Anything more than that and you're just rolling the dice.

[DeeInSeatown]

Bugger. Is it even worth looking at the inspection port to see how far the tensioner is extended? TBH, still trying to figure out where exactly that is and how to get to it.

What are people seeing for shop costs? I called a local Seattle shop and they gave a rough price of $3100+tax. I'd love to think I have the time and space to take this on as a DIY project, but reality says otherwise.

[silver_tt]

It's a 9 hour job by the book. You can find parts needed here (I also have a 2014) and they are about $1,000 total if you do "everything" (cam bridge, balance shaft chain, all guides, etc). I am of the opinion that you might as well do it all "while you're in there".......

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...th-parts-lists

[Theiceman]

Don't worry , you don't have impending doom, but it needs doing and its pointless checking the inspection port, you are going to be close to the end. The late cars with the new tensioners do a great job with this. You are doing it right, get some quotes get her booked in and get it done if you cant do it yourself. Obviously sooner than later but there is no reason to panic.

To give you some perspective ...

Dealer statements on retail - oh you absolutely have to get it done if its past 5 degrees.
Dealer statement under warranty - Well there is no code so we arent going to do it even though it is at 8.5 degrees.

So use that as a guide.

[DeeInSeatown]

It's a 9 hour job by the book. You can find parts needed here (I also have a 2014) and they are about $1,000 total if you do "everything" (cam bridge, balance shaft chain, all guides, etc). I am of the opinion that you might as well do it all "while you're in there".......

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...th-parts-lists

Thanks, I'd found a step by step writeup for the chain and ancillaries replacement that also had some parts lists:

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...hain+tensioner

Your list looks a bit more comprehensive. I'm confident I could DIY the project, but less confident I could make the time to do it or really have the space to make it easy. Old house, with a small garage full of other projects in cue.

I think I found the viewing port for the tensioner. Seems like it'd be easier to get to from under than above the car? Tight squeeze reaching from above. And is that even useful information?

Oh and neither here nor there, but my 2014 is also one that's now consuming oil. It was good for the first couple years of used ownership, then the oil consumption started. As suspected replacing the PCV had no effect.

[DeeInSeatown]

Don't worry , you don't have impending doom, but it needs doing and its pointless checking the inspection port, you are going to be close to the end. The late cars with the new tensioners do a great job with this. You are doing it right, get some quotes get her booked in and get it done if you cant do it yourself. Obviously sooner than later but there is no reason to panic.

To give you some perspective ...

Dealer statements on retail - oh you absolutely have to get it done if its past 5 degrees.
Dealer statement under warranty - Well there is no code so we arent going to do it even though it is at 8.5 degrees.

So use that as a guide.

Thanks for the info! This is my third Audi, really wish they'd stop finding new and more expensive ways to make the cars less robust. Looks like you answered some of my questions while I was typing my response above.

[Theiceman]

Thanks, I'd found a step by step writeup for the chain and ancillaries replacement that also had some parts lists:

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...hain+tensioner

Your list looks a bit more comprehensive. I'm confident I could DIY the project, but less confident I could make the time to do it or really have the space to make it easy. Old house, with a small garage full of other projects in cue.

I think I found the viewing port for the tensioner. Seems like it'd be easier to get to from under than above the car? Tight squeeze reaching from above. And is that even useful information?

Oh and neither here nor there, but my 2014 is also one that's now consuming oil. It was good for the first couple years of used ownership, then the oil consumption started. As suspected replacing the PCV had no effect.

sounds like engine is beat and needs a complete rebuild really. its funny .. i was so abused when i dared mention post facelift cars had oil consumption as i was one of the first .. now i just shake my head and wonder why Audi didnt get forced to fix all B8/.5s.

[DeeInSeatown]

sounds like engine is beat and needs a complete rebuild really. its funny .. i was so abused when i dared mention post facelift cars had oil consumption as i was one of the first .. now i just shake my head and wonder why Audi didnt get forced to fix all B8/.5s.

I keep hoping the more recent class action to include the post 2012 (?) cars goes somewhere. Doesn't appear to be much hope of that now though.

[Theiceman]

I keep hoping the more recent class action to include the post 2012 (?) cars goes somewhere. Doesn't appear to be much hope of that now though.

i just got on with it and rebuilt mine .. oh BTW i was at 8.5 when i redid mine, had zero issues and no codes. SS list is pretty good, just double check all part numbers but with that list you are pretty well set to go , shop around a bit, some places may let you bring in your own parts but will not provide Warranty if you do that. Your choice to make.

[earhythmic]

Thanks, I'd found a step by step writeup for the chain and ancillaries replacement that also had some parts lists:

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...hain+tensioner

I used the FCP video to guide my recent timing job: https://youtu.be/OVPYurTlE6o

All in it was probably about 8 hours of actual work, half the time spent looking for that damn tool that was JUST IN MY HAND.

I’m surprised you’re not getting any codes. My car was running like crap even at just -4.17 adaptation.

Side bar: I now have all the specialty timing tools just laying around my garage - if anyone is thinking about tackling this job themselves I’d be willing to loan it out if they cover shipping costs.

[silver_tt]

My two cents but if your car was running like crap it was because of something else. Mine was stretched over 5 degrees and drove perfectly. This engine almost never codes due to a stretched chain which is what is so dangerous about the issue. You are more likely to get something like long cranks at start before the engine throws a code telling you to check the chain.

[earhythmic]

My two cents but if your car was running like crap it was because of something else. Mine was stretched over 5 degrees and drove perfectly. This engine almost never codes due to a stretched chain which is what is so dangerous about the issue. You are more likely to get something like long cranks at start before the engine throws a code telling you to check the chain.

Yep, verrrryy long cranks, rough idle when warm and would occasionally just die. Of course it threw a bunch of codes unrelated to the chain. I installed a new VVT solenoid while I was at it (pin on the old one felt crunchy) so I’d like to think it was mainly that… and possibly fishing out the broken cam bridge screen. The sum of all the parts I guess.

[Theiceman]

My two cents but if your car was running like crap it was because of something else. Mine was stretched over 5 degrees and drove perfectly. This engine almost never codes due to a stretched chain which is what is so dangerous about the issue. You are more likely to get something like long cranks at start before the engine throws a code telling you to check the chain.

same with mine. I was at 8.5 degrees and it ran like a top with absolutely zero issues ... well, as long as you kept filling it with oil i guess with the occasional gas top off.

[silver_tt]

Agree. I am guessing maybe it was mostly related to the VVT solenoid? My cam bridge screen was broken apart too and my phase position was like +5.5 degrees.... but I never would have known to check if I didn't know about this from working on Porsches the last 20 years. This forum has probably saved hundreds if not thousands of engines........ I know it saved mine.

[Theiceman]

Yep, verrrryy long cranks, rough idle when warm and would occasionally just die. Of course it threw a bunch of codes unrelated to the chain. I installed a new VVT solenoid while I was at it (pin on the old one felt crunchy) so I’d like to think it was mainly that… and possibly fishing out the broken cam bridge screen. The sum of all the parts I guess.

yup id say it was definitely the solenoid, keeping the car over advanced and causing very lumpy idle, not unlike shuttle valve getting stuck open.

[earhythmic]

yup id say it was definitely the solenoid, keeping the car over advanced and causing very lumpy idle, not unlike shuttle valve getting stuck open.

Yep, this was my working theory after reading through your thread. Great resource



The offer to borrow my timing tools is still on the table. If anyone is thinking of DIYing this job shoot me a PM.

[DeeInSeatown]

i just got on with it and rebuilt mine .. oh BTW i was at 8.5 when i redid mine, had zero issues and no codes. SS list is pretty good, just double check all part numbers but with that list you are pretty well set to go , shop around a bit, some places may let you bring in your own parts but will not provide Warranty if you do that. Your choice to make.

So what's the end goal with a rebuild? Mainly to address the rings and oil consumption issue? Preaching to the choir (I'm sure) but to me, a rebuild on an engine with less than 90k is just ridiculous. Not to say I disagree with you as to it being fix to the consumption issue, more that I take issue with VW/Audi putting out a product that requires this type of service so early, and basically says tough shit when the issues come up.

Dug into the oil consumption class action and the most recent one that would include the 2014 has been dropped, citing a previous lawsuit that included B8s up through MY 2013. Which then lead me down to another class action for earlier model years to deal with timing chain/tensioner issues grenading engines.

My first Audi (91 200 20v) ran up to nearly 250k miles. It was thirsty for oil (1qt/500miles), but just kept going. The B5 is at a bit over 160k, drinks oil at about the same rate. it's got good number of issues (rear suspension sound like a hamster wheel!), but still starts and goes. Just watch the dipstick.

[Theiceman]

yup rebuilt for oil consumption

search here for engine refresh and you will see my thread on it and what I discovered.

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[DeeInSeatown]

yup rebuilt for oil consumption

search here for engine refresh and you will see my thread on it and what I discovered.

Sent from my SM-G973W using Audizine Forum mobile app

Most definitely. Ready some of the early posts on the thread when first published. Thought briefly of emulating...then got distracted with changing diapers :)

[Theiceman]

Most definitely. Ready some of the early posts on the thread when first published. Thought briefly of emulating...then got distracted with changing diapers :)

that happened on my first build. on the latest one, he did most of the work, time flies.

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[Sprocket King]

Adding my data

2015 allroad
99,434 miles
-3.76deg

5000-7500mi OCI it’s whole life

No mods, no real issues. Replaced the upper timing cover at 98000 due to a tiny leak. Not a drop If oil coming from anywhere else. Did the VVT solenoid and PCV at the same time just for preventative/ piece of mind.

[Jason11213]

Adding my data

2015 allroad
99,434 miles
-3.76deg

5000-7500mi OCI it’s whole life

No mods, no real issues. Replaced the upper timing cover at 98000 due to a tiny leak. Not a drop If oil coming from anywhere else. Did the VVT solenoid and PCV at the same time just for preventative/ piece of mind.

Any oil consumption between OCIs?

[Sprocket King]

Any oil consumption between OCIs?

Pretty minimal, the last few rounds I have added 1/2 quart or less between changes.

[Grouch]

How fast do those numbers jump up? Or is it just random? I checked mine for shits since I had my 95k miles done and it was at -2.81. Not terrible, not that great. From what I've gathered here is that I should start looking to get it done when it starts nearing -4.0+.

[silver_tt]

Depends on several factors like how long your OCIs are. It’s a good idea to check it every oil change or so, especially as you get up into higher numbers closer to 5 degrees

[old guy]

I checked mine for shits since I had my 95k miles done and it was at -2.81.

That is a really good reading for 95k miles. You should be good for another 50k before re-evaluating.