Results of measuring timing chain stretch via cam phaser adaptation.

[RockJGC]

Yes, it's usually sitting in the oil gallery just behind the cam bridge (this is where mine was). If it's gone that means the screen has completely disintegrated and is swirling around in your engine until it hopefully gets picked up by the oil filter.

Rather than removing the screen, the best option is to upgrade to the new cam bridge which doesn't have this problem and also has other improvements. Don't get too paranoid about the screens.

Hmm...okay. What other components do we have that have screens besides the cam bridge?

[beatsageo]

oil pump, balance shafts, vacuum pump....cam bridge

[silver_tt]

pretty much...... but please don't go ripping the screen off your oil pump LOL

[AudiTLC]

This is interesting - 2.0T with timing chain stretch and tensioner- he goes into detail about it and how common it is.
Although this seems like there was plenty of warning
https://youtu.be/WERvPVoIH74?t=504

[audrobotic]

This is interesting - 2.0T with timing chain stretch and tensioner- he goes into detail about it and how common it is.
Although this seems like there was plenty of warning
https://youtu.be/WERvPVoIH74?t=504

Just saw this today too. Ive watched a few of his videos about various cars before. I don't know why but his tone annoys me when it come to cars he obviously doesn't like: “these are not good engines” etc etc. But why not offer good ideas such as recommend to do exactly what this thread is about - check your tensioner and plan for this like you would a timing belt. He comes across like a complainer and not offering useful advice. But interesting that his tech could apparently do the timing chain without service mode.

[dreamsforgotten]

Just saw this today too. Ive watched a few of his videos about various cars before. I don't know why but his tone annoys me when it come to cars he obviously doesn't like: “these are not good engines” etc etc. But why not offer good ideas such as recommend to do exactly what this thread is about - check your tensioner and plan for this like you would a timing belt. He comes across like a complainer and not offering useful advice. But interesting that his tech could apparently do the timing chain without service mode.

I agree, many engines out there need a timing replacement in the 100k range. That does not make an engine bad. He said the '12 burns oil and then said the' 15 will too. What I heard it's 133k on the '15 no oil burn.

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[Theiceman]

is that the same guy who conned a woman out of her car.. said it wasn't worth fixing and just needed a valve or something ?

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[seattlematt]

I just ran this test, attached are my results. What do yall think?

[Theiceman]

I just ran this test, attached are my results. What do yall think?

it's fine. no issues with 3.3

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[old guy]

I just ran this test, attached are my results. What do yall think?

Model year? Mileage?

[a4lownslow]

2016 VW TIGUAN 87k milesIMG_0198.jpg
IMG_0199.jpg


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[old guy]

I believe MB 093 is the reading for a 2 bank system. Instead of using measuring blocks, go to the Advanced Measuring Values and look at PID IDE00182.

[a4lownslow]

I believe MB 093 is the reading for a 2 bank system. Instead of using measuring blocks, go to the Advanced Measuring Values and look at PID IDE00182.

Advanced measuring does not show cam adaptation for this vehicle and it’s not a 2 bank system. Its the gen 2 motor with intake phaser only. I’d have to double check but I believe it’s in measuring values because of the protocol. CAN vs UDS


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[lhlan]

I am running gen3 motor at 122k km

I don't have VCDS and have to make do with an Android app: Car Scanner.

It lists two sensors for camshaft adaptation:

Intake bank 1: phase -0.3
Exhaust bank 1: phase -2.2

This was when I had run the car idle for at least 10 minutes. When I started rev it up to 2.5k rpm, still idling, then the exhaust adaptation would drop to -1.8

What are those values, in what way are they relating to this topic?

Should I worry?

[old guy]

What are those values, in what way are they relating to this topic?

Should I worry?

Totally different engine. Not related to this topic. You have nothing to worry about!

[lhlan]

Totally different engine. Not related to this topic. You have nothing to worry about!

Oh, I thought all EA888s are roughly the same throughout generations, and with regards to chain, the only difference with gen 3 motor is a new tensioner unit.

Thanks!

[dreamsforgotten]

Oh, I thought all EA888s are roughly the same throughout generations, and with regards to chain, the only difference with gen 3 motor is a new tensioner unit.

Thanks!

They are the same, I think he's confusing you and the guy who posted the Tiguan images. I could be wrong though. If you Indeed have the 2.0 EA888 intake cam bank phase 1 should be lower than 4. If you're 4 or over start thinking about a timing job, I did mine at 7.6 degrees

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[old guy]

EA888 gen 3 is a totally different engine. New block, new head. Clicky click®️

As to the Tiguan, I'm not sure MB 093 is the right value to be looking at. Clicky click®️

[a4lownslow]

Oh, I thought all EA888s are roughly the same throughout generations, and with regards to chain, the only difference with gen 3 motor is a new tensioner unit.

Thanks!

I do believe you’re correct and there is still some relevance to the adaptation numbers on a gen 3 motor.

Although there may be differences with the block and head the timing chain and tensioner are literally the same parts.

I recently checked adaptation numbers on a 2018 Tiguan which is gen 3 motor and my intake value was around 1.8 and exhaust 4.3. After seeing these numbers I also inspected the tensioner and it was approximately half way out. I believe 4 or 5 notches past the tensioner body. This was at 135k miles all original components. Based on the tensioner position and cam phase values the car in question is probably good for another 30k miles or so


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[Theiceman]

bottom line gen 2 and gen 3 are different engines, they are not the same engine with a different tensioner, so lets not got away from that, yes they are built on the same design concept and have similar parts. Gen 3 engine has variable cam timing on the exhaust as well as on the intake meaning an extra phaser for example.

That said, i would expect the intake cam phase adaption to be similar , but it only tells half the story as with two phasers you are only telling half the story. I would go to a forum that has Gen 3 engines and ask there ( 2017 on i believe) there may be a thread there that is monitoring what we are and might provide more relevance to your numbers.

[DrGER]

2016 VW TIGUAN 87k miles
...

What engine code ? Reference: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...49892-9999.pdf

And this thread re the Gen3 CPLA engine: https://forums.ross-tech.com/index.php?threads/34542/ --g

[old guy]

What engine code ? Reference: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...49892-9999.pdf

Good information! According to that TSBS, you can use 93/3 Camshaft adaptation intake bank 1, phase position at idle in lieu of PID IDE00182. That being the case, the 2016 Tiguan should be serviced immediately.

[a4lownslow]

bottom line gen 2 and gen 3 are different engines, they are not the same engine with a different tensioner, so lets not got away from that, yes they are built on the same design concept and have similar parts. Gen 3 engine has variable cam timing on the exhaust as well as on the intake meaning an extra phaser for example.

That said, i would expect the intake cam phase adaption to be similar , but it only tells half the story as with two phasers you are only telling half the story. I would go to a forum that has Gen 3 engines and ask there ( 2017 on i believe) there may be a thread there that is monitoring what we are and might provide more relevance to your numbers.

I understand two different engines, but the principle of the timing drive, chain and tensioner are the same parts as gen 2. So yes two phasers, half the story but just like with the gen 2 motor when we have statists such as phase value and physical extension of the tensioner we can start to put together an idea of what values are considered safe and normal. I provided one statistic for the gen 3 motor.


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[a4lownslow]

What engine code ? Reference: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...49892-9999.pdf

And this thread re the Gen3 CPLA engine: https://forums.ross-tech.com/index.php?threads/34542/ --g

CCTIMG_0221.jpg
IMG_0220.jpg


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[a4lownslow]

Good information! According to that TSBS, you can use 93/3 Camshaft adaptation intake bank 1, phase position at idle in lieu of PID IDE00182. That being the case, the 2016 Tiguan should be serviced immediately.

Parts arrive tomorrow and it’ll be good to go

On a side note picked up another Tiguan yesterday. 2015 97k miles that the timing chain jumped and it no longer runs. It wasn’t quite as lucky..


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[Theiceman]

I understand two different engines, but the principle of the timing drive, chain and tensioner are the same parts as gen 2. So yes two phasers, half the story but just like with the gen 2 motor when we have statists such as phase value and physical extension of the tensioner we can start to put together an idea of what values are considered safe and normal. I provided one statistic for the gen 3 motor.


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I think you have to start somewhere. a thread like this for the gen 3 engine would be outstanding..

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[silver_tt]

Should be the same for the intake side I would think, but the gen 3 uses a phaser on the exhaust side too for NOx emissions reduction

[4xaudi]

192k miles -3.87 2013 allroad CPMB engine

[old guy]

All original?

If so, OUTSTANDING!

[a4lownslow]

Fully extended at 87k milesIMG_0241.jpg


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[old guy]

That's terrible! A few few more miles and it would have been a total failure.

Shame on Audi.

[DrGER]

Fully extended at 87k milesIMG_0241.jpg

Wow, referencing post #2011, above (https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post14956150), measured adaptation angle was -11.33 degrees ! This in a 2016 Tiguan. What might account for this condition, 10K OCIs leading to excessive chain/link wear ? --g

[Theiceman]

Wow, referencing post #2011, above (https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post14956150), measured adaptation angle was -11.33 degrees ! This in a 2016 Tiguan. What might account for this condition, 10K OCIs leading to excessive chain/link wear ? --g

ive often wondered can you electronically roll back the odometer on these cars ? i have head on the DL that Porsches can be and it is done more often than you would think.

[Theiceman]

Wow, referencing post #2011, above (https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post14956150), measured adaptation angle was -11.33 degrees ! This in a 2016 Tiguan. What might account for this condition, 10K OCIs leading to excessive chain/link wear ? --g

i have seen a broken guide do this( the long one ) it breaks and the tensioner pops out as it is routed slightly different, only seen it twice though.

[4Rings6Stars]

Just picked up 2011 Avant with 200k miles and am still waiting for the maintenance records, but I know it had the oil consumption job done under warranty at around 50k miles so hoping it has the new style tensioner (I’ll verify this asap). I don’t know yet if it’s ever had timing job done.

I don’t have vcds or obd11 yet, but using the “car scanner” app’s live data feature I show readings as follows:

[ECM] Camshaft adaptation: intake bank 1: phase position. 45.6°
[ECM] Camshaft adaptation: exhaust bank 1:
phase position. 2.56°

Are either of these readings relevant? Or do I need OBD 11 or vcds to view the correct data?

[Theiceman]

Just picked up 2011 Avant with 200k miles and am still waiting for the maintenance records, but I know it had the oil consumption job done under warranty at around 50k miles so hoping it has the new style tensioner (I’ll verify this asap). I don’t know yet if it’s ever had timing job done.

I don’t have vcds or obd11 yet, but using the “car scanner” app’s live data feature I show readings as follows:

[ECM] Camshaft adaptation: intake bank 1: phase position. 45.6°
[ECM] Camshaft adaptation: exhaust bank 1:
phase position. 2.56°

Are either of these readings relevant? Or do I need OBD 11 or vcds to view the correct data?

2.56 is the relevant one, you are fine. if it's the new tensioner you are good for many more years on that front..
what you really want is detailed records of oil consumption repair .


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[4Rings6Stars]

Okay so I crawled under there today and checked the tensioner. Good news is that it’s the new style, but it’s a more extended than I would like to see. Does this look concerning to you?

[old guy]

You are fine. You are in the 7th groove. I'm currently in the 7th groove (85k miles) and here are my adaptations:

[Theiceman]

yup that is fine, good to go .... !!

[mr_milo]

Hi All - Haven't posted in a long time and just spent several hours re-reading these posts. I think I know I am in need soon but I don't know how soon and would love to hear your thoughts.

I have been checking the adaptation on my 2014 A4Q CAED for about a year now and here are my numbers:

87,907 miles @ -5.25
96,814 miles @ -5.60
98,294 miles @ -5.73

At my last check I was having some issues, rough running between 2K - 3K rpm, and got both codes 2795 - Bank 1 - Camshaft A (Intake) - P0011 - Retard Setpoint not Reached (over- advanced) and 2796 - Camshaft Positioner (Bank 1 Intake) - P000A 00 [237] - Slow Response. I checked the VVT solenoid and it seemed to be working fine so I was a but stumped.

I was due for an oil change and was about a quarter above minimum, so knowing the VVT is oil dependent, I decided to top it off by adding 3/4 of a quart. After a short drive, the issue seemed to go away.

Then re-reading part of this thread, I got worried so I opened to top timing cover & tensioner port to inspect.

If I am reading the tensioner correctly, I'm 5 notches out but clip is on the 10th notch(?).


I then measured the Center Rib to Intake distance and was at about 61mm.


And also measured the Exhaust to Intake distance and was at about 127mm.


Based on the above I'm a bit confused but think I'm still OK. I think 5 notches is ok but the clip on the 10th worries me. The rib to intake seems perfect, but the exhaust to intake is 1+ mm over spec., so I'm not sure if I need to do this now or can wait a bit.

If I do need this right away, can anyone recommend at parts shop? I was checking ECS Tuning but can't figure out which parts to get since my build date is 07/13 but they list a cut-off of "up to 7/1/2013" and "From production date of 7/2/2013". Is ECS Tuning even a good place to get parts in the USA?

Lastly while I was in there and thinking about my codes, I decided to pull the camshaft bridge and check the screen. As I assumed it was blown out but luckily it was easy to find in the passage with it all together. Love to hear your thoughts, Thanks!