...and thats all she wrote ....

[Theiceman]

Son called me today , about 100 yards from his moms house oil pressure light came on ... by the time he pulled over and got off the road car was already making horrible sound. ...

Either oil pump assembly or frozen oil pickup im thinking.

Either way not sure its even worth fixing . I cant be working in February on a car and have no facility, never mind a lift to get the subframe off and oil pan even to take a look.

Im considering paying an indie just to pull sub frame and pan , then make a decision on the info. But likely engine is damaged now anyway .

oh well..

[dalmation53]

Wait the subframe needs to come off to pull the pan? 😣

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[canadianA4B7]

I’ve got a spare oil pump mate. If it comes down to it and you need one we’re both Canadian!

[Theiceman]

lol Thanks

Engine didn't seize so that's a good sign :)

yes subframe has to be dropped as its under the pan .. or at least a few bolts removed and pull it back out of the way.. to get to those pesky bolts above the flywheel

Im just not sure what I can do in the middle of a Canadian Winter

[Theiceman]

Well I have a buddy who offered me the use of his lift for a week to at least look at the damage. So I immediately went to youtube. and the tech section to see what is involved.

I see I need to support the engine from the top, , get a transmission jack for underneath. somehow pull , the subframe down, get all the bolts out, including the two at the back by the transmission, drop the pan .

Has anyone done this before and can add any tips ? I see in a couple vids the guy even disconnected the Ac line, im not up to doing that !!

I am hopefull I will find a clogged pickup , replace that with the updated one and be on my way.

will replace the oil pump if I have to but im not sure what alignments have to be done , so at that point may be investing in a Bentley.

[AudiKilla]

Oh that sucks, what was the mileage on the car?

[mcpcartier]

Hope its not as bad as you fear....

Short trips typically? Extremely cold out today?

Wondering if you drain and warm the puppy up you can get away without doing much. Maybe put a scope in and see if the oil pump shafts have play? It's a lot of work to pull the pan to install the upgraded pickup.

[B7S3wannabi]

I’ve got a spare oil pump mate. If it comes down to it and you need one we’re both Canadian!

How can one become Canadian!?


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[canadianA4B7]

24 7% beers in 2 hours.

[B7S3wannabi]

🤣


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[4rings5stars]

Sucks man. Hopefully you get it worked out to your advantage.

[Theiceman]

Thanks Guys I'm working the problem.
Not typically short trips as the car is my sons and he is always in it.
Maybe its a Frozen pickup, not sure.

Im having a local Indy pull the pan to take a look and give me an assessment, il take it fom there. My son was smart enough to shut it down immediately so im hoping the engine can be saved.

Best case collapsed oil filter ( but I use Mann Filters)
Medium case, clogged/Frozen oil pickup , and I will replace
Worse case Oil pump assembly is beat and needs to be replced
Absolute worse case, above but engine is beat and car has to be totaled.

Not worth a replacement engine given i can get another car for about what it would cost to replace the engine, I would likely remove some key pieces and sell to offset the diagnostic cost if the engine is beat ( Turbo and some other bits and pieces )

[Brillo]

Theiceman - Can yu give us a quick status of the engine? Was it stock? Mileage? MT? Rebuilt? Quattro? Any other tidbits? Oil brand and weight? Thanks.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and sorry to hear about this misfortune. No one needs this, especially this time of year. Brillo

[Theiceman]

Totally stock Quattro 5spd about 280K (km) .. so about 170K miles

oil change every 5K with mobil one 0w40 , almost zero oil consumption

did have the CF catastrophically fail about two years ago, had to replace CF and HPFP . Cfs inspection every other oil change showed zero wear after

[jazzyjay18]

A similar thing happen to me when my wife hit something on the highway that busted the oil pan. The extent of the damage, other than the oil pan, was a unknown. The insurance company wanted to replace the motor with a junkyard piece with no warranty, so I let them total the car out. Then I bought it back and rebuilt the motor in my garage. 100k+ and Six years later my son is still driving a very clean '06 M45. It is cheaper(no payments) and you really know your car. This works great if you have another daily driver and you have the time.

[Theiceman]

A similar thing happen to me when my wife hit something on the highway that busted the oil pan. The extent of the damage, other than the oil pan, was a unknown. The insurance company wanted to replace the motor with a junkyard piece with no warranty, so I let them total the car out. Then I bought it back and rebuilt the motor in my garage. 100k+ and Six years later my son is still driving a very clean '06 M45. It is cheaper(no payments) and you really know your car. This works great if you have another daily driver and you have the time.

I would have done this for sure if I had the time. I have the time to do it, just not the time to drive my son everywhere until I get it done. he is in post secondary and is scrapping through , the last thing I need is to give him a reason not to go as " I don't have a car"

especially since I am paying Child support until he graduates... ( That's my S5 money im spending )

[Theiceman]

update ....

mechanic said low oil pressure was due to disintegration off chain tensioner in head. Also took out " cam phaser" by breaking pin although im not sure what that is , suspected bent valves in cylinder two, he said its about 1200 just to find out if cylinder two is going to misfire and does not recommend fixing it.
Id pull the head off and do it myself if it wasn't February in Canada and I had another car for my son to get to school

[GTA_G20]

Shitty news. Where abouts are you located? You wouldn’t happen to be on rennlist would you?


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[Theiceman]

yup
I am indeed :)
my reputation prceeds me :)


so the sort of good news ..
charged me 170 bucks, took the timing cover off , removed the dreaded poly bolt. !!! worth it just for that

gave me a brand new tensioner and chain for 300 bucks CAD , which I thought was okay

if I can get a used phase thing I might throw it back together and see what happens . I mean why not ? nothing to lose at this point . My buddy suggested before putting it together just do a leak down on cylinder two, he's a mechanic and he says don't get too involved , jamb compressed air into the cylinder with all valves closed, he said you will definitely here it if its leaking. He said when you take the air off if it blows back and wooshes out its sealing, don't need to get more involved than that.

May need some help from you guys as I don't have a Bentley ( il get one if I pull the head ) I think there is lots of info on cam timing here though for the chain




Anyone got a phase adjuster thing ?

[audifahrer]

Any progress update report?

[Solarsuplex]

Getting the cam positioning is tricky with the head on. You can get everything in and then apply a bit of oil to the lobes and shaft and crank the motor by hand... If you dont get any bent valves you are good... Lots of reference images for correct cam lobe positioning to be able to verify you have yours in the correct orientation Also wouldn't hurt to hand crank the motor to TDC before taking anything apart and marking the shit out of the cams so you have some sort of reference point.

[Theiceman]

no progress .. car will likely sit in the driveway until spring. if it warms up a bit in March I might turn the cams and just see if I have compression. Then make a decision. working on a car in -C weather in your driveway sucks. Unfortunately the garage is taken by other projects.

[Theiceman]

Getting the cam positioning is tricky with the head on. You can get everything in and then apply a bit of oil to the lobes and shaft and crank the motor by hand... If you dont get any bent valves you are good... Lots of reference images for correct cam lobe positioning to be able to verify you have yours in the correct orientation Also wouldn't hurt to hand crank the motor to TDC before taking anything apart and marking the shit out of the cams so you have some sort of reference point.

I read something about a copper coloured link to help with the alignment. I was also viewing some pics. Definitely a challenge but I think doable.

[Theiceman]

Update :
Took the parts out of the box i got back .


Tensioner completely destroyed and pin broken off adjuster.

Next step is to check compression.




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im not sure how than pin on the adjuster works however and need to understand why it sheared. I see a spot in the timing cover it is supposed to fit into, but don't understand the system beyond that

[Theiceman]

okay so what am I missing , yes its aftermarket but gees look at the price vs the 400 I would have to pay here .

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Camshaft-Ad...NaEXN6&vxp=mtr

[Solarsuplex]

I've never seen that pin sheer off before... Thinking about the forces applied that makes me think the cam a cam locked up while the other kept going?.. Im confused.

[Theiceman]

I've never seen that pin sheer off before... Thinking about the forces applied that makes me think the cam a cam locked up while the other kept going?.. Im confused.

or the chain jammed the cam adjuster and the cam just kept turning ?

what I don't understand is how it is supposed to work ? is the piece inside the timing cover the pin goes into supposed to spin with the cam ?

[konarider94]

I've got an extra cam adjuster but its not in great shape. One tooth is a little goofed up, and there are wear grooves in the bore of the adjuster that correspond to the seals on the center piece of the cover that supplies oil to the adjuster. If you want it Ill give it to you for the price of shipping but I didnt want to run it in my car if that tells you anything. The timing on the cams is a little tricky. Even with the cam locking tool its easy to be off by a link.

I agree its weird to see that pin shear. I broke off 2 valves with the engine running and never had that happen.

The pin makes sure the inside portion of the adjuster stays in the correct alignment with the cam. The cam is driven on the front of the engine by the timing belt. It turns the inside of the cam adjuster and the oil in the cavities of the adjuster control the position of the housing with the sprocket that in turn drives the intake cam. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKo28HMLhK0

edit: I guess it does make sense if the chain bound up the exhaust cam is the driven by the timing belt, so it would continue to try and spin which would cause the little pin to shear.

[Solarsuplex]

or the chain jammed the cam adjuster and the cam just kept turning ?

what I don't understand is how it is supposed to work ? is the piece inside the timing cover the pin goes into supposed to spin with the cam ?

I wish i remembered when i had mine apart.

This is on the exhaust cam right?

Does it line up with the holes on the left of this part?

[Solarsuplex]

I've got an extra cam adjuster but its not in great shape. One tooth is a little goofed up, and there are wear grooves in the bore of the adjuster that correspond to the seals on the center piece of the cover that supplies oil to the adjuster. If you want it Ill give it to you for the price of shipping but I didnt want to run it in my car if that tells you anything. The timing on the cams is a little tricky. Even with the cam locking tool its easy to be off by a link.

I agree its weird to see that pin shear. I broke off 2 valves with the engine running and never had that happen.

The pin makes sure the inside portion of the adjuster stays in the correct alignment with the cam. The housing is rotated by the chain and sprocket and pressurized oil inside the cavity is what controls the relative position to the internal portion that drives the cam. This video helps explain how they work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKo28HMLhK0

edit: I guess it does make sense if the chain bound up the exhaust cam is the driven by the timing belt, so it would continue to try and spin which would cause the little pin to shear.

Wow i had no clue this is how that function worked. Ive always heard Variable timing but never knew how it physically happened. Great stuff, thanks,

[konarider94]

Wow i had no clue this is how that function worked. Ive always heard Variable timing but never knew how it physically happened. Great stuff, thanks,

i just edited my post to reflect that the exhaust cam is the one thats driven. I worded it backwards at first but basically same concept.

[a4lownslow]

I've never seen that pin sheer off before... Thinking about the forces applied that makes me think the cam a cam locked up while the other kept going?.. Im confused.

I’ve got one like that sitting on my shelf. Came off an engine where the balance shaft seized. Also put a nice hole in the block IMG_1840.jpgIMG_1839.jpg


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[Theiceman]

Okay i think i found a good tool to put some air in the cylinders. If its warm enough today ill do a redneck leak down and provide results.


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[Solarsuplex]

How did the leakdown test go?

[Theiceman]

Wow perfect timing. ...
I built my redneck leak-down tool.
Simply a tool with a rubber nipple to force air in the cylinder with the valves closed.

I am looking for a burst of air coming back. I took a vid if cylinder. 4

https://youtu.be/tOh6Zj3vWJ4


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[Theiceman]

The idiots at the shop used vice grips on the cams to turn them, but more on that another day.

I think they have set the cams to tdc in preparation for the installation of the chain. Although i cant be certain. But all valves were closed on cylinder 4 .
Before i move the cams to check the other cylinders i need to know more about cam alignment. I know the exhaust is correct as its still on the belt. Unless of course it has ripped teeth on the belt i cant see yet, but lets try to remain positive.
I have been doing some research and have discovered even using the alignment tool it can be wrong.
Does anyone have information on a way to time these ? Or can point me to a source ?
I did notice a line on the cam adjuster and a dot on one of the teeth of the intake cam sprocket but am unsure as to how they relate and if they can be used

Below will be a pic of the tool if it worked

IMG_6142.JPG


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[Theiceman]

Well first i would like to say thanks to all the wishers and guys who have showed their support on this forum. This is just about everyone with one obvious exception.
I think my sons quick thinking saved my engine.
The compression with my redneck tester proved good. Check out what happened below when i checked the compression of each cylinder.

Im thinking its a very good sign

https://youtu.be/ZiOJDHA7Ofg


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Next steps now include obtaining a cam adjuster, and a new poly bolt , and the drive tool to install it. and maybe I need some tool to hold the intake cam , I'm not sure, need to do more in depth research now.

[Brillo]

Well first i would like to say thanks to all the wishers and guys who have showed their support on this forum. This is just about everyone with one obvious exception.
I think my sons quick thinking saved my engine.
The compression with my redneck tester proved good. Check out what happened below when i checked the compression of each cylinder.

Im thinking its a very good sign


https://youtu.be/ZiOJDHA7Ofg


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Next steps now include obtaining a cam adjuster, and a new poly bolt , and the drive tool to install it. and maybe I need some tool to hold the intake cam , I'm not sure, need to do more in depth research now.

I want to better understand what you are doing. I watched both vids. Your home-made tool forms a bit of a press fit seal against the spark plug hole. You blow air into the cylinder and if it comes right back at you, that means the valves are sealing which is your main concern. You don't want to move the crank too much because you are unsure about the cam timing so you lash the crank bolt to the engine via a wrench and nylon zip tie to keep it from turning while testing the other cylinders, some of which may not be at TDC or BDC. If the valves are open or bent you will not get blowback through the spark plug hole, right? I would think that would tell you what you want to know. Nice.

Another question though regarding cam timing. Since you can easliy tell when a cylinder is at TDC using a dial indicator the cam positioning tool should fit into the slots. You said that this is not very precise but if the cam is off a tooth on the belt which was a concern of yours, wouldn't the cam slots be off far enough that the tool would not possibly fit into place, or is there is that much slop. Secondly, even if it is off a tooth is that enough to cause valve-to-piston interference??

Also, to lessen the chance of interference, with the spark plugs out you should be able to tell where the pistons are in the cylinders using a wooden dowel or dial indicator if you have one. If you are not at TDC on any of the cylinders, fastening the crank like you did makes sense. Since the VC is off it is easy enough to tell which valves are open and closed. So the hard part of your job is checking the cylinders where the valves are depressed, which usually means hand cranking the engine to where the open valves are just closed, securing the crank, and doing your compressed air assessment.

[Theiceman]

Yes to the first part of your question. This was rigged up just to see if the cylinders would hold pressure ( a traditional compression check is out obviously as my timing chain snapped so i had to think of another way ) . The handle is just a socket on the crank bolt. As the cylinder is holding pressure it pushes down the piston .
It also bursts out air when i remove the air supply so is also a good sign.
The exhaust cam is still in time as its driven by the timing belt. Yeah actually i forgot the intake valves hitting the pistons when i turned it and wondered what the resistance was lol. But I’m pretty sure it just pushed the piston away as i have no plugs in.
Yeah i saw a you tube where a mechanic dropped in the tool set it all up. Buttoned it up and it ran.
He did have a code and was out of spec for cam timing. He took it all apart moved it a tooth. The tool still fit and the degree difference for cam timing was much tighter and no code.
So i was wondering if there were any secondary method i could use to check alignment.
I know that different coloured chain link is for something. Just not sure what.

It would be awesome to know where the line on the cam adjuster and the dot on the intake cam tooth are when timed properly at tdc.


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[Theiceman]

Of course the problem now is i dont know where the intake cam is supposed to be. So i will have to put 4 wood dowels in the holes for the plugs and see if i can carefully manipulate the Cam back into position without damaging any valves.
I am also going to visit a machine shop and see if they can drill out and press a new pin into the cam adjuster. If they can im going to put the tensioner, chain , cam adjuster back in with some advice I’ve been getting from you tube. So i can do a more traditional compression test.

Just a question that has me. Confused . Is it cylinder 1 or 4 that is supposed to be at tdc when using the tool ?

edited due to brain fart


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