C5 S6: Hotchkis Sway Bar kits - Available!!!

[Brooklyn67]

FYI to all you super-special S6 owners - Hotchkis found 8 sway bar kits for the C5 S6...now 7 sets available

I've been looking for a long time and decided to call them (again) today to see if the RS6 kits will fit. After telling them I had an S6 and (Ron) the salesguy saying "discontinued", there was a pause and he said, "wait, it says I have 8 kits in my inventory!". As it turns out, about 3-4 months ago, they inventoried all the spare bars that they had laying around and realized they had 8 complete S6 kits. After these are gone...THEY'RE GONE!.

The SKU for this kit is #22822

[Audibot]

I bought a set for my allroad and they dramatically changed the handling! Amazing upgrade from these cars! Changed my whale into an orca (not quite dolphin-like handling)

[Brooklyn67]

Agree! It's the best initial suspension upgrade that is very noticeable...and not difficult to install if you're so inclined.
It was the first upgrade that I made to my Datsun 240z in high school and it's the first suspension upgrade to my (fantastic) S6...decades later!

[Audibot]

Exactly! It was the 2nd real upgrade I did to my B7 (after Stage 1 tune) and it was amazing. It's the 3rd upgrade I did to the allroad, after the EFK and tune (needed to pass emissions).

[mr_dave]

I'd rather have the RS6 kit since the rear bar is a larger diameter, 24mm vs 22mm (which would be better for controlling the larger/heavier avant rear end). Physically they're the same fitment.

[jbain2]

I have been looking at the allroad specific kit which seems to be readily available. How are the S6 ones different? I know that the OE ones are different. Guess I just assumed that the hotchkiss bars would be the same for all the C5 Avants?


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[rollerton]

Did you happen to get a price on them? I'd have to cash in some ETH to afford it probably...

[alien_brain]

confirmed, 7 s6 kits still available.

rs6 kits are not discontinued and front and rear are availble separately...

front sway bar is identical between most kits they say.

im gonna pick up an rs6 rear for 229 plus shipping asap.

[Audibot]

I like that the Hotchkis one has some adjustability in it, if you want something slightly softer or not. Not that the stiffer setting is uncomfortable, but the option is nice.

[bpark1210]

That's funny I placed an order with Hotchkis last year and it took them a full 3 months to get me a rear RS6 rear bar shipped to me. My understanding was they make the bars to order and actually bend them and powder coat them which adds to manufacturing time. I guess if you need one grab them while they're in stock they really do change our heavy ass cars into more of a nimble feeling sports car.

I went full out and changed all my rear bushings to poly including the rear diff bushings and it's been a game changer for sure. Decided to skip the front bar since we already have a good amount of understeer.

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[Audibot]

That's funny I placed an order with Hotchkis last year and it took them a full 3 months to get me a rear RS6 rear bar shipped to me. My understanding was they make the bars to order and actually bend them and powder coat them which adds to manufacturing time. I guess if you need one grab them while they're in stock they really do change our heavy ass cars into more of a nimble feeling sports car.

I went full out and changed all my rear bushings to poly including the rear diff bushings and it's been a game changer for sure. Decided to skip the front bar since we already have a good amount of understeer.

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Funny enough, I bought mine from Amazon and had it in no time. F&R sway bars had poly bushings. Last year I changed the rear diff (and its subframe mount) bushings to poly. This summer I plan to change all the F&R suspension bushings to poly. Only leaves the transmission with stock mounts (also on the list).

[Brooklyn67]

I'm guessing that there are variations in the way the bars attach from the Allroad vs. S6.
There were more Allroads produced and I would assume that's why Hotchkis stopped producing the S6 kits in 2014..supply and demand.

Regarding the comment from "mr_dave", the assumption probably would be that the RS6 bars are larger because this model would assume more aggressive driving (which is exactly how I'd drive the wheels off of it, if I had one). The S6 (for me) strikes a good balance of having a more than fun (non-track oriented) wagon that can carry my 3 dogs and gear...which could use a little less body roll, but won't drive as aggressively as an RS, hence, not needing more meat/diameter on the sway bars. Also, if I were going to go with bigger RS bars, then I would assume that my S6 would be less utility oriented and I'd be also upgrading the spring rates/height and compression dampening on the shocks. Once and if my auto tranny goes kaput and I change over to a 6-speed, I may consider that...

[allroadmark]

Can't confirm, but i think the allroad rear bar has a relief for the compressor and the rs6 bar does not.

[das_boosthead]

I have been looking at the allroad specific kit which seems to be readily available. How are the S6 ones different? I know that the OE ones are different. Guess I just assumed that the hotchkiss bars would be the same for all the C5 Avants?


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When I was investigating this previously, I was told by Hotchkis that the Allroad bar is is slightly different to accommodate clearance around the compressor. My recollection is that the S6 bar is based on the A6 bar but the Allroad and RS6 bars share the same shape. I have both an Allroad and RS6 rear bar in the garage and can snap pics. I don't have an s6 or A6 bar for comparison. I believe I validated that the rs6 and allroad rear bars share the same shape, but it's been a while.

[dufferdude]

Just ordered a kit for my S6.
Thanks for sharing.

[Brooklyn67]

My pleasure.

I also called back asking about the larger RS6 rear bar relative to the S6. They confirmed what I mentioned above - they designed the larger bar for the RS6 because they assumed more aggressive driving and possible auto-crossing of the car. A bigger/stiffer rear could/would initiate more oversteer, which is great for much more aggressive driving and especially auto-crossing, but for the S6 wagon...the additional stiffness didn't make sense as they went through their design R&D process. Sometimes bigger is not better.

[jbain2]

When I was investigating this previously, I was told by Hotchkis that the Allroad bar is is slightly different to accommodate clearance around the compressor. My recollection is that the S6 bar is based on the A6 bar but the Allroad and RS6 bars share the same shape. I have both an Allroad and RS6 rear bar in the garage and can snap pics. I don't have an s6 or A6 bar for comparison. I believe I validated that the rs6 and allroad rear bars share the same shape, but it's been a while.

Thanks. I may just go ahead with the allroad specific version. I am sure it will be a huge improvement over stock.


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[mr_dave]

My pleasure.

I also called back asking about the larger RS6 rear bar relative to the S6. They confirmed what I mentioned above - they designed the larger bar for the RS6 because they assumed more aggressive driving and possible auto-crossing of the car. A bigger/stiffer rear could/would initiate more oversteer, which is great for much more aggressive driving and especially auto-crossing, but for the S6 wagon...the additional stiffness didn't make sense as they went through their design R&D process. Sometimes bigger is not better.

If you were comparing an A6 sedan to an RS6 sedan then I'd agree. However since the S6 Avant has a significantly heavier rear end I'm still of the opinion that the larger rear sway bar offers an advantage. I currently have an H&R 22mm rear sway on my S6 and I wish I would have went with the larger 24mm Hotchkis instead.

[Brooklyn67]

Hmmm, Interesting. Real-world experience obviously has value.

Question: Did you find that body roll was reduced overall, but you still find that there's enough "tilt" in the front end, therefore, you wish you had the thicker rear sway bar?

Thanks.

[mr_dave]

The 22mm H&R bar is definitely better than stock, but even with my upgraded rear OEM sport springs (one step higher weight rating) and Koni FSDs it still feels like the rear end is too heavy. If I were to do it again, I would have got the next level up weight rating (2 steps above stock) for the springs and gone with the larger sway bar.

My RS6 (with its lighter rear end) has front and rear Hotchkis bars and it handles perfectly.

[Brooklyn67]

@mr_dave -- thanks for the additional info.

[allroadmark]

When I was investigating this previously, I was told by Hotchkis that the Allroad bar is is slightly different to accommodate clearance around the compressor. My recollection is that the S6 bar is based on the A6 bar but the Allroad and RS6 bars share the same shape. I have both an Allroad and RS6 rear bar in the garage and can snap pics. I don't have an s6 or A6 bar for comparison. I believe I validated that the rs6 and allroad rear bars share the same shape, but it's been a while.

can you confirm the rs6 and allroad bars are the same? it doesn't make sense that they would make them the same.

[DreamInRotary]

I have the Hotchkis bars on my AR and love them, handles very well for being a heavy turd.

[Eurotuned_A4]

Did you need to call hotchkis directly?

[dufferdude]

Did you need to call hotchkis directly?

Yes

Got my kit today, can't wait to get it installed.

[Gogeees]

I found a set of C5 (1999-2004) A6 Hotchkis sway bars for sale locally, would these be the same as the S6 kit? I will call Hotchkis tomorrow morning and ask.

[ChicagosPhantom]

I found a set of C5 (1999-2004) A6 Hotchkis sway bars for sale locally, would these be the same as the S6 kit? I will call Hotchkis tomorrow morning and ask.

It's the same kit. Go for it.

[bpark1210]

Hotchkis 22822 - for A6/S6 = 35mm Front + 22mm Rear
Hotchkis 22815 - for Allroad (made w/ diff bends for compressor) = 35mm F + 22mm R
Hotchkis 22827 - for RS6 = 35mm F + 24mm R

OEM Stock A6/AR 29mm F + 15mm R
OEM Stock S6/OEM Sport 29mm F + 18mm R
OEM stock RS6 29mm F + 20mm R


Considering the above I don't see why you wouldn't just upgrade to an RS6 rear bar for the S6. The supposed "S6" kit is just the normal C5 kit. The front is beefy enough I would just keep it stock, understeer is already problematic w/ our front engine chassis.

[Gogeees]

Grabbed the A6/S6 22822 kit for a killer deal off CL. The front bushings and brackets are pretty mangled, but the rear looks good. Looks like the donor car these came off was involved in a bit of an accident, one front bracket looks completely toast. The bars themselves look fine, some normal wear and tear, normal marks from scraping/bottoming out. Ordered the rebuild kit direct from Hotchkis, Sales told me it comes with the bushings and brackets. Rest of my suspension is still stock, but its probably time to upgrade shocks/springs or go for coil-overs with 150k miles on the clock. Will let you guys know what I think once I get them on the car.

A6/S6 rebuild kit can be found below.

https://www.hotchkis.net/search-by-v...&md=985&sm=952

[dufferdude]

Decided to install my sway bar kit today. Started with the rear. Car on ramps. Got the stock rear bar out pretty easily, about an hour.
The Hotchkis bar is being a major Pita to get back in position. The ebrake lines are in the way. I'm guessing because the Hotchkis bar has the double holes on the end?

The exhaust is about as low as it can go. I didn't mess with the hangers in the middle


With a little help I was able to get one side of exhaust low enough to get the SBar past the ebrake cable.

Put it on the stiffest setting and went for a drive. Oh yea!

[chris86vw]

When I was investigating this previously, I was told by Hotchkis that the Allroad bar is is slightly different to accommodate clearance around the compressor. My recollection is that the S6 bar is based on the A6 bar but the Allroad and RS6 bars share the same shape. I have both an Allroad and RS6 rear bar in the garage and can snap pics. I don't have an s6 or A6 bar for comparison. I believe I validated that the rs6 and allroad rear bars share the same shape, but it's been a while.

Ever get a chance to check on this?

I'm running H&R A6 bars on my allroad (pump is in spare tire well) but looking to change it up and get pump back under the car. RS6 bar would be nice if it does in fact clear the pump on the allroad.

[ChicagosPhantom]

Ever get a chance to check on this?

I'm running H&R A6 bars on my allroad (pump is in spare tire well) but looking to change it up and get pump back under the car. RS6 bar would be nice if it does in fact clear the pump on the allroad.

I can answer this.


I have few sets of Hotchkis bars on my C5's. Would love to try H&R on one of them.

Took a picture a while back of allroad Hotchkis, RS6 Hotchkis and stock RS6 bar for comparison.

Hotchkis allroad against RS6 stock.

Hotchkis RS6 against Hotchkis allroad.

[chris86vw]

Cool thanks.. so it looks like either should work unless I'm seeing things wrong. I'm trying to fit dual viair pumps in the stock location and they just won't clear the H&R near the hump over the exhaust to spread them out enough to fit 2. That angled way hotchkis did it (on both) seems like it will work.

I've got the H&R pair, if you wanted to try H&R I'd be willing to trade (and I'll throw you some cash) for a pair of the hotchkis.

[B5.5 Swagon]

I have a 03 Passat wagon witch is on the same chassis as the C5 and im about to do a RS6 swap in my Passat so im guessing ill be able to go with the Hotchkis RS6 kit ? Any one

[m_haiser]

im not sure a passat is a C5. my understanding was the C platform wasn't shared with any VW

[chris86vw]

im not sure a passat is a C5. my understanding was the C platform wasn't shared with any VW

The "b5" passats share lots of parts with the C5 A6s, Just like the C5 shares a lot with the B5 A4s. Lots of 8Dx, 4Bx, 3Bx part number cross overs between them. There are even 4Zx allroad parts that might be different but still work.

I'm not certain if the swaybar is compatible, just pointing out there are lots of shared parts.

It would need to be a 4 motion passat as a starting point for anything rear suspension to a Quattro Audi part, the torsion beam front wheel drive cars would not be able to use any swaybar parts from a IRS car.

[m_haiser]

compatibility in parts isn't what I said. he stated his b5.5 passat was a c5 platform car, I was mearly clarifying that statement

[BlackOpsA4]

Hey guys m i just acquired the c5 avant, i guess am late to the party, but is there any rear bars left to get or no??? or anyone parting with the 22mm and up

[PZ.]

I have a 03 Passat wagon witch is on the same chassis as the C5 and im about to do a RS6 swap in my Passat so im guessing ill be able to go with the Hotchkis RS6 kit ? Any one

The rear suspension setup of the B5 4Mo Passat is from the C5Q. C5Yes, it will fit but it might rub the CV boot when the vehicle is off the ground. You do need to mount the bar on the outside of the links vs the stock inside mount. I have just over 3K on mine so far and on some really rough dirt roads with no rubbing on the CV boot. It does touch the CV boot when the car is on stands. The only issue I had was that it was so stiff on washboard roads (dirt or gravel), the back end slid all over the place at higher speeds.

[B5.5 Swagon]

The rear suspension setup of the B5 4Mo Passat is from the C5Q. C5Yes, it will fit but it might rub the CV boot when the vehicle is off the ground. You do need to mount the bar on the outside of the links vs the stock inside mount. I have just over 3K on mine so far and on some really rough dirt roads with no rubbing on the CV boot. It does touch the CV boot when the car is on stands. The only issue I had was that it was so stiff on washboard roads (dirt or gravel), the back end slid all over the place at higher speeds.

Ok cause i was pretty sure they were the same or could fit cause i bought my KW2s from a guy with a A6 quattro but i dont want the rear to be to stiff and jump/slide around cause im in NYC and roads are bad enuff so with a stiffer rear swaybar might not be the best thing? Lol