Crown Gear Equipped? Opinions?

[Smac770]

The pics are obviously not a crown center diff. If the part number on the center diff itself doesn't start 0B5, it's got 0 chance of being a crown design. I never saw anything, that I remember, of an 0B5 center diff being used in anything but an 0B5 transmission. So you won't find any 0B2 / 0B4 6spd manual or 0B6 / 0BK ZF auto with a crown diff, at least not from the factory.

[Jay@JXB]

DSG out of a 2015 S4. Code PWW. NOT Crown Gear. The literature definitely lies.




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[fastboatster]

why do you think it isn't? torsen from b8s looks different:

mine (2010) looks like the pic above and definitely doesn't look like your diff

[Jay@JXB]

why do you think it isn't? torsen from b8s looks different:

mine (2010) looks like the pic above and definitely doesn't look like your diff

Is yours a DSG trans? The centers from the ZF are designed by ZF. The centers from the 0B4/5 are Audi parts.

The dead giveaway is the 3 cylindrical protrusions for the 3 outer helical gears.


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[Jay@JXB]

Here’s a Torsen on the left from an S7, and a crown gear on the right from an RS7.




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[fastboatster]

Is yours a DSG trans? The centers from the ZF are designed by ZF. The centers from the 0B4/5 are Audi parts.

The dead giveaway is the 3 cylindrical protrusions for the 3 outer helical gears.


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yes, mine is a 2010 dsg with flange shaft, the image above looks very similar to what was pulled out of my trans when it had to be split apart.
P.S. actually literature might be right and CG only came in rs5 and other rs cars, but some overly optimistic folks decided that Audi decided to throw in its new crown gear diff into the A/S cars for free (would never happen). Perhaps what these folks thought was a CG diff is just the same old torsen diff with updated housing?

[Smac770]

I've already gone through all this; read the slides I posted in that post I made earlier in this thread.

[fastboatster]

I've already gone through all this; read the slides I posted in that post I made earlier in this thread.

yeah, I guess the point is that no crown gear diffs for A/S cars, which makes sense.

[Smac770]

And the RS7 with the 0BK transmission didn't use a crown diff either. I mention this in my slide 9. Only crown diff users were those with 0B5 transmissions with 0B5 marked center diffs (all RS4 and RS5, and Q5 and A4 allroad if equipped 0B5/0B5).

[Jay@JXB]

Shit so the photo on the right I posted above is not a crown gear?

FWIW the owner of the 2 cars those diffs came out of says the RS7 launches way better than the S7, and they have similar power levels. If it’s not because of the diffs, then maybe the 0BK just launches more smoothly than the 0B5...


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[Smac770]

The slushbox, for all that people rip on it as not a manual, has that benefit of torque multiplication from a dig. It wouldn't surprise me that the ZF8 handles the extra power and torque better than the DSG.

edit - I also wonder how much the four planet gears in the RS7 version helps over the three planet gear pairs in the S7 version. Check that video at https://www.audi-technology-portal.d...r-differential and you'll see the RS7 is a bit different in overall layout compared to the ones in most of the units.

[Audi 4 Life]

Well this f'in blows......So I don't have crown diff.... I guess I should of kept my diff shims from stasis to install.

edit... So re reading I am thoroughly confused and havent even smoked my morning J...yet....... Can anyone clarify this for me on my A4 with some REAL stupid amount of money in it, and really like to know what the deal is my trans code is LRY.



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[fastboatster]

it probably doesn't matter too much, b8 torsen can get up to 80% torque to either axle, and I think I've read that with an aid of esp, 100% is achievable. Another thought is that crown gear is a clutch based diff, only that it's controlled via some mechanical effects arising due to torque differences between the front and rear axles, and also indirectly controlled by the ESP. How's that better than a direct computer control of the clutch packs? Perhaps it's telling that Macan which is built on the same platform and everybody seems to rave about, and uses the same DL501 trans as an S4/S5/RS4/RS5, it has torsen/cg ditched in favor of computer controlled transfer case. Perhaps that could be a genuine upgrade for B8 cars, of course if you can make it work. Another knock on the cg diff is the heat it creates. RS5 has to have a special sensor which monitors center diff oil temp in its dsg, or rather, it monitors the mtf oil temp since gear and diff oil is shared between the dsg gears and center and front diffs. It will go into a limp mode if that oil gets too hot, and if you get it even hotter, the car will ask you to get another trans. Perhaps it's not a wise idea to have a cg diff in a trans which can't monitor its diff oil temp? You might wreck your diff and/or trans.

[Smac770]

I think one of the big drags of the crown diff is the increased trans service interval.
Normal DSG is change the ATF at 35k+every 40k. The RS5 with the crown diff then adds change the MTF at 15k+every 20k.
Like the manual it's based on, the MTF also lubricates the center diff and front diff.
There's no MTF change interval for the DSG in the B8 S4/S5 or C7 S6/S7.

Audi 4 Life, unless you retrofit a DSG from an RS5 or swapped out the center diff in your DSG for one with an 0B5... part number, you do not have a crown diff.

[Audi 4 Life]

I think one of the big drags of the crown diff is the increased trans service interval.
Normal DSG is change the ATF at 35k+every 40k. The RS5 with the crown diff then adds change the MTF at 15k+every 20k.
Like the manual it's based on, the MTF also lubricates the center diff and front diff.
There's no MTF change interval for the DSG in the B8 S4/S5 or C7 S6/S7.

Audi 4 Life, unless you retrofit a DSG from an RS5 or swapped out the center diff in your DSG for one with an 0B5... part number, you do not have a crown diff.

Thanks for that clarification... One more? Tho I am manual trans not DSG. Is it possible to get a crown diff and swap into my 6mt?

If not I guess I'm back to getting the stasis torsen diff shims. I don't care as much straight line speed I want like handling and twisties.

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[Smac770]

You said in a previous post you have trans code LRY. That would be type 0B2 code LRY. If we look at the center diff part page for LRY:
https://audi.7zap.com/en/usa/audi+a4.../4/409-409082/
we see the center diff is part number 0B2 409 755 K. This particular center diff is commented on slide 8 of the slides I made.
We see the output shaft is spline shaft, so that makes it a MY11/MY12 transmission.

If we look at the MY11/MY12 spline shaft output type 0B5 center diff part page:
https://audi.7zap.com/en/usa/audi+a4.../4/409-409096/
it looks a lot alike. In fact, we see the 0B5 switched to the 0B2 409 755 K center diff in Oct '10.
Everything else looks the same between the 0B2 and 0B5, no surprise since the 0B5 was based on the 0B2/0B4.
Note for when you run across it, PR-TG6 is the CAEx gas engine. PR-TL6 is the CPMx flex fuel engine. PR-T41 is the 3.0 TDI. TC6 is the B8.0 3.0T.

You see the 0B5 center diff listed there is not the J rev from the RS4/5.
But I comment on the K rev in slide 7, and it appears to be a crown casing like the J. Thus why I believe all the 0B5... center diffs are crown.

And I wonder if this page is the source of why people think maybe the S4 was getting the crown diff.
From this page, it would seem that spline shaft 0B5 vehicles (such as the MY11 S4 and MY11 S5) produced until Oct 4, 2010 would have had the 0B5 409 755 K center diff.
But did any of those actually deliver, and deliver to the US? No idea on MY11 S4 US deliveries.
There'd be no way to know what's in there without cracking open the transfer case.

[Audi 4 Life]

Edited sorry accidental post, didn't mean to send that yet. Stupid phone keeps sending shit before I want it to.

[Audi 4 Life]

You said in a previous post you have trans code LRY. That would be type 0B2 code LRY. If we look at the center diff part page for LRY:
https://audi.7zap.com/en/usa/audi+a4.../4/409-409082/
we see the center diff is part number 0B2 409 755 K. This particular center diff is commented on slide 8 of the slides I made.
We see the output shaft is spline shaft, so that makes it a MY11/MY12 transmission.

If we look at the MY11/MY12 spline shaft output type 0B5 center diff part page:
https://audi.7zap.com/en/usa/audi+a4.../4/409-409096/
it looks a lot alike. In fact, we see the 0B5 switched to the 0B2 409 755 K center diff in Oct '10.
Everything else looks the same between the 0B2 and 0B5, no surprise since the 0B5 was based on the 0B2/0B4.
Note for when you run across it, PR-TG6 is the CAEx gas engine. PR-TL6 is the CPMx flex fuel engine. PR-T41 is the 3.0 TDI. TC6 is the B8.0 3.0T.

You see the 0B5 center diff listed there is not the J rev from the RS4/5.
But I comment on the K rev in slide 7, and it appears to be a crown casing like the J. Thus why I believe all the 0B5... center diffs are crown.

And I wonder if this page is the source of why people think maybe the S4 was getting the crown diff.
From this page, it would seem that spline shaft 0B5 vehicles (such as the MY11 S4 and MY11 S5) produced until Oct 4, 2010 would have had the 0B5 409 755 K center diff.
But did any of those actually deliver, and deliver to the US? No idea on MY11 S4 US deliveries.
There'd be no way to know what's in there without cracking open the transfer case.

Of course this page is why. It clearly stated in the catalog but those catalogs are confusing and from what I've learned you cannot use the pictures for reference. If you do sure it may work out but that's always where I've ran into problems.

Now I guess I'll buy some more stasis diff shims and find a shop to pop this thing open and if it's torsen in the shims go and if it's crown then I win even more.

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[Smac770]

No, the illustration was not my point. Yes, it would seem that illustrators got it mixed up regarding what the illustration was for, but it was clear they knew the 0B2... and 0B5... center diff were not visually the same. Notice one (on the 0B5 part page) is marked item 2 and the other item (2). The () means "this object, but it's different than as illustrated".

No, I was talking specifically about how the spline shaft 0B5 page says it used an 0B5... center diff until Oct 4 '10. This would imply that MY11 S4 built before Oct 4 '10 might have an 0B5... center diff, which should mean a crown diff if my conclusion that all 0B5... center diffs are crown diffs. That would have been type 0B5 code MSE for 3.0T (PR-TC6) installations, such as the US market S4. But I don't know if anyone has ever popped open the transfer case on an MSE built before Oct '10, assuming any exist, to see what is in fact in there.

[Audi 4 Life]

No, the illustration was not my point. Yes, it would seem that illustrators got it mixed up regarding what the illustration was for, but it was clear they knew the 0B2... and 0B5... center diff were not visually the same. Notice one (on the 0B5 part page) is marked item 2 and the other item (2). The () means "this object, but it's different than as illustrated".

No, I was talking specifically about how the spline shaft 0B5 page says it used an 0B5... center diff until Oct 4 '10. This would imply that MY11 S4 built before Oct 4 '10 might have an 0B5... center diff, which should mean a crown diff if my conclusion that all 0B5... center diffs are crown diffs. That would have been type 0B5 code MSE for 3.0T (PR-TC6) installations, such as the US market S4. But I don't know if anyone has ever popped open the transfer case on an MSE built before Oct '10, assuming any exist, to see what is in fact in there.

So does the spline style matter or not, further conjecture is just more confusing making me second guess. because mine looks like the LPE above.




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[Smac770]

Flange shaft vs Spline shaft is not significant. That you have an 0B2 transmission guarantees you won't have a crown diff. The only transmissions that used 0B5... center diffs were 0B5 transmissions.

[Audi 4 Life]

Flange shaft vs Spline shaft is not significant. That you have an 0B2 transmission guarantees you won't have a crown diff. The only transmissions that used 0B5... center diffs were 0B5 transmissions.

Are you saying only 7 speeds had the crown? Or was there any manuals transmissions in Europe that had crown diff if so, do you know what the trans code is?

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[Smac770]

"Are you saying only 7 speeds [may have] had the crown?"

How many more ways do you want me to say it?

[QuattroJ]

I remember reading somewhere that Audi began putting the CGs in DSGs from 2014+. It mentioned that there were no plans to put the CG in a 6MT.

[fastboatster]

I think by the time you finally find that “magical” crown diff and gut a few expensive dl501 transmissions, you’ll spend more money than say if you went with jbullin’s front diff and then you’ll realize that it’s not a noticeable improvement. I’d try to invest into the upgrades with somewhat proven effect, and seems like the front diff is one of these things. The only way to 100% get a crown diff is to pull it from the rs5 dsg, and that will be a very expensive endeavor. Whether it happened to be in some other dsgs available on the US market such as dsg with MSE code is still a conjecture.

[Jay@JXB]

I’m leaning towards RS4/5 only, MSE seems very unlikely, as it would be silly to go backwards in technology.. I’m going to keep my eyes peeled for one for sure though. I’d love to experience the difference, and since I already have my own front diff...I’ve got nothing to lose!

On another topic, the B9 has a cool new center diff. I’m spacing on the name of it now, but it looks to be an active differential with clutch packs. I’d love to find out more about it, and of course see if it can somehow be swapped into a B8...




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[QuattroJ]

From a manufacturing perspective, it would make sense to start making all DSG's, after a certain point, with the CG. If some of the prior posts are correct though, the added electronics and heat would make it a draw back. These are just my thoughts though.

[QuattroJ]

I do want to research the B9. I had read something was different about that also.

[QuattroJ]

jbullin2 I haven't had a chance to research this since I read about it a couple posts above, but what front diffential are you running? Is there a link?

[Jay@JXB]

jbullin2 I haven't had a chance to research this since I read about it a couple posts above, but what front diffential are you running? Is there a link?

You’ve probably already found it now that you’re on my site, but it’s my JXB Performance front differential, and man is it huge upgrade. Way better than a Sport Diff I’m positive. https://www.jxbperformance.com/produ...g=Differential


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[cybernet99]

You’ve probably already found it now that you’re on my site, but it’s my JXB Performance front differential, and man is it huge upgrade. Way better than a Sport Diff I’m positive. https://www.jxbperformance.com/produ...g=Differential


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That’s what I’m putting in my A4 front and rear this winter the JXB Performance mechanical LSD differentials!!! Can’t wait!!! Shop is still working on pulling them apart so I can ship them to Jay. I was hoping to get the front and rears diffs from the shop on Friday, but they needed a bit more time, so I’ll be picking them up Monday afternoon.

IMG_0153.jpg

IMG_0154.jpg


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[Smac770]

"as it would be silly to go backwards in technology"

Not really, particularly considering the extra maintenance involved with the crown diff. They also might not have seen the cost yield they were hoping for, or any number of other business reasons.

And that leads into the B9 and "quattro ultra". There's nothing "better" about it. The "diff" is just a selective disengagement device. Purely for economy reasons, nothing performance oriented about it.

[Jay@JXB]

"as it would be silly to go backwards in technology"

Not really, particularly considering the extra maintenance involved with the crown diff. They also might not have seen the cost yield they were hoping for, or any number of other business reasons.

And that leads into the B9 and "quattro ultra". There's nothing "better" about it. The "diff" is just a selective disengagement device. Purely for economy reasons, nothing performance oriented about it.

Good to know. Looked like a glorified Haldex to me...I won’t waste my time.


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[QuattroJ]

I looked at 2017 A4's with the 6MT. The quattro Ultra wasn't what I was looking for. The TT RS is the only Haldex 6MT I enjoyed.

[fastboatster]

"as it would be silly to go backwards in technology"

Not really, particularly considering the extra maintenance involved with the crown diff. They also might not have seen the cost yield they were hoping for, or any number of other business reasons.

And that leads into the B9 and "quattro ultra". There's nothing "better" about it. The "diff" is just a selective disengagement device. Purely for economy reasons, nothing performance oriented about it.

lol, beat me to it) I was going to say that maybe "crown diff" didn't turn out to be a step forward, and quattro ultra would make for a nice fwd s4) I would however like to see somebody swapping in macan's center diff. Or perhaps the entire drivetrain with TT v6:

[QuattroJ]

The more I researched the brake setup, the more I thought about this^^^.

[QuattroJ]

Its amazing how much is the same.

[Kolbenringe]

Good to know. Looked like a glorified Haldex to me...I won’t waste my time.


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Kind of sort of. It is for different reasons set up to disengage the driveshaft on both ends. It's typical Audi basketcase engineering that is just asking for problems, specifically like the overheating some in Europe with the early ones were complaining about. They're just removing the differential and replacing it with a coupling. The new programming of coupled 4wd vehicles actually does work to an extent, like having them always or mostly start in locked 4wd from a stop and release within a few meters, but they are still far from a Torsen setup and IMO, still far from a Torsen center and manually lockable rear of yesteryear. I guess the sport diffs now available might be a best-bet setup, but there have been issues with those as well, likely the heat.

[Audi 4 Life]

"Are you saying only 7 speeds [may have] had the crown?"

How many more ways do you want me to say it?

Seeing how you didn't answer the question I dunno you tell me, how many times does it take you to answer the question.

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[fastboatster]

Buy a dsg from an rs5 for 3.5k off the eBay, swap the diff over if it fits, do the diff backlash adjustment if that’s required and that’s it, you got a crown diff.