A7 smashed by uninsured Expedition driver... what is this diminished value thingy

[The Great A4]

Long-time Audizine reader here... I rarely ever post. On 10/23/17 I was sitting in stop and go traffic when out of nowhere a distracted idiot patriot encroached his uninsured Ford Expedition into the rear of my newly acquired A7.

It has been in the shop for nearly 2 months and I should be picking it up this week. The shop is Penske and they strictly adhere to Audi's repair procedures, so I feel good about them fixing it. I have popped in several times to inspect the work, and they are very meticulous and thorough IMHO. GEICO is puking out over $18K for this, and since I live in SoCal my deductible is waived since the other driver likes to live insurance-free. Fortunately also I have rental coverage, so in the end my cost for this will be negligible. However, I am concerned that when I try to sell it I will not be able to get the best price due to this event. Last night I learned about "diminished value" and wonder if any fellow Audi lovers have worked to recover funds for this? If so what was your experience?

[ZChicagoS4]

I had to sue for it. I was successful.

Only sued because the business that damaged my car (years ago) would not step up and forced me to handle it myself. So I recovered the actual damage plus diminished value.

[Bassler]

It's always tough. It's a hard negotiation, predicated on pre and post damage appraisals. It's often a he said/she said negotation between you and the other parties carrier. Your carrier wont touch it (especially a discount carrier like GEICO). I admittedly do not have experience with CA diminution law but in general i'd expect your best/only avenue is to sue the guy. Sorry man...

[plat]

I am very sorry to learn about this unfortunate accident and damage to your new A7. I hope Penske does a good job with the repairs.

As for drivers and cars with no insurance, I do not even understand why the DMV allows this to happen. Here in BC Canada, basic insurance is mandatory before a vehicle can be registered.

To my understanding, diminished value insurance is only available for a leased vehicle. Some forum members may correct me if I am wrong. I live in Canada after all but I have lived in NC for several years so I have an idea of how car insurance works in the US. Anyway, if you leased your A7, you should have included a provision for diminished value in the car's insurance to protect you from this kind of situation where you car's value has dropped due to it having gone through major repairs for damage due to an accident. Sometimes, diminished value is already included in your insurance policy without you knowing it.

As other posters have mentioned above, you will probably need to sue the guy who caused this mess for diminished value and court expenses.

[Jezza]

I've got bad news for you. If the other guy doesn't have insurance, he's probably judgment proof. You could get a judgment against him, but good luck collecting on it.

Sent from my SM-G930VL using Audizine mobile app

[LINDW4LL]

I've got bad news for you. If the other guy doesn't have insurance, he's probably judgment proof. You could get a judgment against him, but good luck collecting on it.

Spot on.

[falkor923]

Sorry about this incident. Well, it's already been said. If the at fault was uninsured, the judgement will more than likely sit there unpaid. Just hold on to it knowing that the repairs have been done properly and enjoy that ride. Insurance will put you back on the road, but rarely puts you even financially.

[VVG]

I have had to deal with a diminished value situation before. A few years ago, my parked Porsche Cayenne was hit. The appraisal was a $10,000 diminished value due to the fact that it was a high end vehicle, and used buyers for that type of vehicle are a lot more particular.

As others have pointed out, however, actually collecting on the money is a different matter entirely if the other party has no insurance. Even if there is insurance there is the hassle factor and your own legal costs, time, etc. Insurance will fix your car, it won't help retain its value. And no insurance company wants to touch this issue as it will increase the payouts all around.

But in general, the whole insurance industry is a scam, and it plays on fears. In 36 years of driving, I have spent around $150,000 in auto insurance premiums on my cars alone, not including my wifes. In that same time period I have incurred just a little over $25,000 in total damages.

[parkstr8]

I've gotten DV 3x. 1x was easy - 83 year old driver in Los Angeles sideswiped me then drove off and i had to chase him 4 miles. I had his license revoked. Otehr 2x not as easy - but successful. It varies by insurance company, circumstance, and ability to prove the loss of value.

I wish you the best.

[RAF_S7]

Looking at the damage, and your estimated repair bill, I’m kind of surprised insurance didn’t write the car off as a total loss.

[Dguth]

I have had to deal with a diminished value situation before. A few years ago, my parked Porsche Cayenne was hit. The appraisal was a $10,000 diminished value due to the fact that it was a high end vehicle, and used buyers for that type of vehicle are a lot more particular.

As others have pointed out, however, actually collecting on the money is a different matter entirely if the other party has no insurance. Even if there is insurance there is the hassle factor and your own legal costs, time, etc. Insurance will fix your car, it won't help retain its value. And no insurance company wants to touch this issue as it will increase the payouts all around.

But in general, the whole insurance industry is a scam, and it plays on fears. In 36 years of driving, I have spent around $150,000 in auto insurance premiums on my cars alone, not including my wifes. In that same time period I have incurred just a little over $25,000 in total damages.

Insurance industry is not a scam. Take a look at the CA wildfires and the billions insurance companies will pay out to make families whole. If you understand actuarial science, the definition of insurance is to spread risk across broad geographies and charge a premium to cover losses of like risk characteristics. While you personally haven’t incurred losses higher than your 36 years of paid premiums, that can be gone in a blink of an eye with just one liability loss.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[SlickMachine]

Insurance industry is not a scam. Take a look at the CA wildfires and the billions insurance companies will pay out to make families whole. If you understand actuarial science, the definition of insurance is to spread risk across broad geographies and charge a premium to cover losses of like risk characteristics. While you personally haven’t incurred losses higher than your 36 years of paid premiums, that can be gone in a blink of an eye with just one liability loss.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

Insurance paid for by responsible parties is a fuckin scam... Not just auto insurance either. Take your horseshit on down the road.

To the OP: sorry this happened. There is no worse person on Earth than one who extracts money (ie time) from others without their consent. I hope something horrible happens to the Expedition driver tonight.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Audizine mobile app

[Dguth]

Can’t argue with ignorance.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[SlickMachine]

Can’t argue with ignorance.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

Good luck with your sales pitch.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Audizine mobile app

[SpectreGadget]

When I had my S5, I struck a tree branch that had fallen across a dark section of highway and scratched the fender, hood, roof, and broke the side mirror. When State Farm (in GA) paid to have it fixed, I also got a separate check from them to cover diminished value. In this case, it wasn't a lot, but I was surprised I didn't even have to ask about it.

[The Great A4]

I really appreciate the condolences and the advice of those with experience. This is a 2013 that I picked up in August, and paid about $36K for ... so the repair is half the value I guess.
For those of you who had to deal with this - how did you get the post-accident value? I suppose I can use the sale price as the pre-accident value, but to get an appraisal now... are there people that do this? Can I pay Audi to appraise? I guess I can Google this, but if anyone already knows please pass it on.
I plan to fully inspect the car when I pick it up.... bringing my VCDS/ VAG COM dongle and running codes b4 I leave, but I am certain they will clear all the codes anyway. When I get it home I will break out the inspection & measurement tools. I will have to get all repair documents too as well I suppose. Ugh what an a-pain!

[VVG]

Insurance industry is not a scam. Take a look at the CA wildfires and the billions insurance companies will pay out to make families whole. If you understand actuarial science, the definition of insurance is to spread risk across broad geographies and charge a premium to cover losses of like risk characteristics. While you personally haven’t incurred losses higher than your 36 years of paid premiums, that can be gone in a blink of an eye with just one liability loss.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

Insurance is the one of the biggest scams going today. Companies take your money, then when it comes time to pay out, they will do everything possible to minimize what they give you. And, as a physician, I will tell you that health insurance is one of the worst offenders. The premiums, deductibles, pre-approvals, etc are ridiculous. Insurance companies make HUGE profits. They do this by playing on people's fears. There are legitimate big payouts, and it is an odds game, but it is still a scam playing on fear.

Tell me this...why do insurance companies give speed enforcement equipment to police departments? Also, if your theory on insurance philosophy holds, then there should be no increase in premium for incurring an expense.

I could go on and on.

[VVG]

I really appreciate the condolences and the advice of those with experience. This is a 2013 that I picked up in August, and paid about $36K for ... so the repair is half the value I guess.
For those of you who had to deal with this - how did you get the post-accident value? I suppose I can use the sale price as the pre-accident value, but to get an appraisal now... are there people that do this? Can I pay Audi to appraise? I guess I can Google this, but if anyone already knows please pass it on.
I plan to fully inspect the car when I pick it up.... bringing my VCDS/ VAG COM dongle and running codes b4 I leave, but I am certain they will clear all the codes anyway. When I get it home I will break out the inspection & measurement tools. I will have to get all repair documents too as well I suppose. Ugh what an a-pain!

There are actually companies that deal with this specific issue and can give you a detailed diminished value report. This will cost you like $400.

[McFuzz]

I've fought against allstate for diminished value and lost - twice :(

[JRomulus]

Can’t argue with ignorance.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

+1

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[bpd]

If the other driver does not have insurance, you can go after DV from your uninsured motorist coverage. One way to get an appraisal is from an Audi pre owned manager at a Dealer. Tell them damage amount, if there is a serious unibody intrusion, etc, the DV is greater. Basically ask what would the trade in value difference between your car vs similar car that was not damaged. If that manager is willing to write a letter to the difference, that value can be used as a starting point. Another thing is if your car is going to be flagged in a Carfax report or some other auto database. Once its flagged, a prospective buyer may be less inclined to buy your car. That is basically how DV is used.
There are plenty of companies out there that will appraise your car after the repair. Need to do repair first then appraise. Some are online only and some companies will write up a comprehensive report. That can cost as some has said up to $400 or more. The appraiser will want to see the final repair description and cost to make a good DV report.
I got DV once when my 09 Acura TL was rear ended in 2011, $13000 damage. There was some unibody damage. I went to my Acura dealer where I had purchased 5 cars in the past and spoke to pre owned mgr. He was cool enough to write a letter, looked at my final damage report and wrote a letter w/o charging me. He did a Carfax check and my car was not flagged. He provided me a DV of $3700. So I took that figure to Progressive (other driver's insurance). Progressive was not easy to deal with. They told me that they did not have to pay it or anything any amount. I then showed them case law that applied in WA state. The adjuster got back to me and offered $900. What a joke. I already showed him and told him that I intended to trade my car in, because I did not want to keep my car. They slowly upped their offer to $1200. I basically said that I have an excellent case for small claims court or go after my insurance. Then my insurance would just go after them. After a couple days, the guy told me that he could not pay the $3700 and asked what I would take. We settled for $3600. So it is hell trying to get a dime out of Progressive at least. They tried hard to pay as little as possible. Its a lot of work to get DV, but it might not be too bad by making the claim with your insurance.

[carx7]

Hey,

Sorry to hear about this. I am currently dealing with a rear end on my Rs7 and it is being totaled. When I thought I was looking at a DV claim (vs being totaled) I was given the name of a 3rd party independent group:
www.autoclaimspecialists.com.
This guy is a licensed insurer, but his business is to help individuals maximize their claims against insurance companies.

They are semi local to me and came highly recommended to me from the body shop who deals with exotics. Generally speaking, they go after the insurance company during the claims process. They only collect a percentage of the value they INCREASE your original claim. They may be able to help. I will be using them to maximize the claim on my total.

Good luck.

[DIMINISHEDVALUE]

BPD's post offers good and bad advice, not that the bad advice will kill you - it just won't work.

Making your diminished value claim through the UM portion of your policy is good advice. Obtaining a letter of their opinion of the car's loss in value is the bad idea. Insurance companies stance is that your dealer will place a lower figure on your car to increase his profit margin. Hire a good independent appraiser who doesn't use short cuts like formulas or algorithms, someone who picks up the phone and calls sales managers at multiple Audi dealers to get real world results that will stand up in court. That's your best path toward obtaining a fair settlement for diminished value.

Other posters have commented that its a grind and when it comes to dealing with any of the large insurers you are right. Make sure to choose an independent appraiser who is willing to speak to adjusters and who has your back for the long haul.

[bpd]

I kept my earlier post as short as possible. So I can add this. I did speak to a DV expert that was local that my body shop recommended. He actually gave me a verbal DV estimate that he usually does not do, but he knew the guy at the shop. I provided him a copy of my repair estimate when it was all done and all the particulars of my car. He told me that DV was approx $4200 and his charge was $450 to write it up. Might come out a bit more or less. So with his $450 charge vs the mgr letter, it almost came out the same. So I ended up using the letter from the Sales mgr. I told the Progressive adjuster this info. So I know I was close when making my DV claim. In fact, I spoke the DV expert before contacting my Acura mgr source. He has written a number of DV letters due to cars being involved in accidents that the dealer owned. I asked what his record of receiving his claims. He said some ins companies were easy and some would give him hell. But the dealer has attorneys and when things were said and done, he usually gets all or most of what he estimates.
You are right that the Ins adjuster did tell me he had a concern of Dealer profit, but when I told him about my verbal DV expert estimate he "sorta" started to believe my number. I told him the name of the company and he did hear of them. I basically said, after his $450 charge I would be getting about the same amount. That is when he started to raise their settlement, but ever so slowly. Now if your DV is going to be somewhere in the thousands, it would be worth the fee. But the expert better have some good credentials or that money will go down the tubes. The sales mgr I used does not just write DV estimates to anyone. He did it for me because I have been an excellent customer there when I was buying Acuras. I thought about trading mine in for another new Acura.
Back in 2011, I did not have any experience with making a DV claim and later learned about making a claim with my ins UM. I would have tried that and see what I could have received. If it was more, then they can go after the other guys insurance. I know much more now after that experience.
If you have an injury claim then you can include DV if you hire a lawyer. I was not injured, so I did not have one. It was not worth it to hire one for my case.

[The Great A4]

Thanks guys, I really do appreciate all this advice! I will be going through the UM portion of my own policy;

In looking for a company that does DV workups I reached out to autoloss.com. The owner/CEO Monica Fisher stated that I could get a $14K DV claim without looking at any of the details of my repair. It sounded too good to be true, and since they seemed a bit sketchy I did some digging and found complaints about them on Ripoff Report and other sites, with that and a B-rating on BBB I don't really want anything to do with them.

On a brighter note I found a gentleman by the name of Steve Proto who runs Auto Mediator, an appraisal service in Santa Monica. After going through my lengthy $18K repair work order he roughly estimates a DV of about $8K, and wants about 10% of that to create a comprehensive DV report. This sounds more reasonable, and he gets 5 stars on both Yelp and Google, so I am much more inclined go down this route. This seems like a good idea... paying for a DV report really just seems to be an investment where I can't loose really, once I have the report I will be better equipped to negotiate with GEICO, or take them to small claims if need be.

The DV report from Auto Mediator takes about a month, so I will report back once I get it...