Engine rebuild/replacement options

**WTF its Arturo** · 11-01-2017 01:46 AM

Hey all,

Looking for some advice or direction to be pointed in on potential engine rebuild or engine replacement options for my RS4.

About the car: 64k miles on the ODO. Last carbon clean was done ~14k miles and 2 years ago. I've basically been tracking it for the past 1.5 years with ~15 HPDE track days and the occasional weekend drive. Performance mods can be found in my sig.

Back story: I was at an HPDE day at Sonoma raceway, and I noticed smoke billowing out from the the passenger side under heavy braking. Initially I thought I had glazed over my brakes (still running street pads). I brought it in and noticed a faint ticking noise coming from the engine bay. I popped the hood and saw a grim sight-- the engine bay splattered in oil around the passenger side. I received no oil pressure or warning lights while driving, and my oil levels were slightly low. I was not able to see where the oil was coming from. Additionally, there was that faint ticking noise that sounded like timing chain tensioner, a faint rod knock, etc. So, those were the two issues that needed solving-- ticking noise and where the oil was coming from. Obviously that ended my track day, and I had it towed to 034motorsport in Fremont where it currently sits.

It turns out that the oil was due to a loose valve cover, so that was an easy diagnosis. However, that didn't really explain the ticking. An oil sample was sent off to Blackstone labs where it shows high readings for the following:
Aluminium: 91 ppm (4 ppm is average). Suspect bearing and piston wear
Iron: 29 ppm (14 ppm is average). Suspect excessive wear to cams, crank, or valvetrain parts.
Tin: 11 ppm (1 ppm is average). Suspect bearing wear
Silicon: 24 ppm (7 ppm is average).

Initial theory: Spun bearing with damage to the head.

Upon removal of the lower oil pan, there is quite a bit of metallic coating which provides visual confirmation of internal damage. This is where the vehicle currently sits and I am now assessing my options going forward.

Options:
1. Further diagnose the extent of the damage and determine what is still salvageable for a possible rebuild. Local machine shops are not experienced with an RS4 motor rebuild and are not comfortable with warrantying it.
2. Purchase Audi warrantied re-manufactured long/short block engine. Reman'd shortblock is ~8k, longblock is 10k.
3. Purchase used RS4 motor. Obviously a gamble and this is not warrantied
4. Sell car as-is and/or part out.

Does anyone have experience with a rebuilding an RS4 motor or purchasing or a reman'd block? I do recall McSuly using an R8 motor but having to

**TheMysticWizard** · 11-01-2017 05:52 AM

That's some tough luck.

034 doesn't feel comfortable rebuilding the engine? I'd think they would have adequate experience rebuilding Audi engines. Same goes for machinests, it's an engine not a rocket ship. Gotta be pretty similar to other engines.

Years ago I had an engine machined and assembled at Al Hubbard's machine shop in Hayward. It was just a small block chevy engine but I had it stroked out and gone over with a fine tooth comb. They seemed really knowledgeable and dedicated to helping/explaining everything. Maybe if they did the short block then 034 did final assembly of the long block and install, it'd be somewhat more reasonable than 10k for an engine.

**65vetteC6** · 11-01-2017 07:51 AM

I rebuilt the short block on one, bearings and other misc parts and seals do add up and had to be ordered from Germany and would take 3+ weeks most of the time. I think the labor to pay someone to rebuild the motor can really get up there and might not make it worthwhile. That said, its really no different than any other engine, not rocket science. There are tolerances and measurements that need to be made so I don't know why a engine shop wouldn't want to warranty the work. I don't think it would be worth it to try to sell the car as-is. Its a pretty low mile car but no one is going to give you a fair value considering the work needed. In terms of future resale, a rebuilt motor IMO would probably make some buyers more weary of the car compared to a factory short block being installed or a used more with similar mileage. Sucks to hear though, did you notice any coolant loss?

**WTF its Arturo** · 11-01-2017 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by TheMysticWizard

That's some tough luck.

034 doesn't feel comfortable rebuilding the engine? I'd think they would have adequate experience rebuilding Audi engines. Same goes for machinests, it's an engine not a rocket ship. Gotta be pretty similar to other engines.

Years ago I had an engine machined and assembled at Al Hubbard's machine shop in Hayward. It was just a small block chevy engine but I had it stroked out and gone over with a fine tooth comb. They seemed really knowledgeable and dedicated to helping/explaining everything. Maybe if they did the short block then 034 did final assembly of the long block and install, it'd be somewhat more reasonable than 10k for an engine.

Yeah, that's what I would think as well. However, they were in comms with the shop that JHM goes to for their machining of motors and aside from rebuilding a motor for FI, they have not performed an RS4 rebuild.

Thanks for the recommendation. Will look into Al Hubbards.

**WTF its Arturo** · 11-01-2017 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by 65vetteC6

I rebuilt the short block on one, bearings and other misc parts and seals do add up and had to be ordered from Germany and would take 3+ weeks most of the time. I think the labor to pay someone to rebuild the motor can really get up there and might not make it worthwhile. That said, its really no different than any other engine, not rocket science. There are tolerances and measurements that need to be made so I don't know why a engine shop wouldn't want to warranty the work. I don't think it would be worth it to try to sell the car as-is. Its a pretty low mile car but no one is going to give you a fair value considering the work needed. In terms of future resale, a rebuilt motor IMO would probably make some buyers more weary of the car compared to a factory short block being installed or a used more with similar mileage. Sucks to hear though, did you notice any coolant loss?

Thanks and great points, Alex!

WRT a factory reman'd short/long block, that's what the thought process is. If I'm going to spend the money on a rebuild, may as well spend the extra 1-2k on having warrantied by Audi should something go awry. There was no coolant loss.

Are you currently running your rebuilt motor? I don't suppose you have any low mileage RS4 motors laying around? ;)

**mattshaver** · 11-01-2017 04:44 PM

I had what I was told was a remanufactured engine after a flood took out the original engine. I suspect it wasn't remanfactured, as the dealer did some shady things and the engine has been almost nothing but trouble. I'd say get the newest best engine you can afford from the most reliable trustworthy vendor you can find.

**Marky G** · 11-02-2017 09:28 AM

Terrible developments! This is heartbreaking stuff man; so sorry to read what you're going through here and my most genuine of automotive grief condolences go out to you. I hope you are able to get her sorted and back in action soon.

**travish325** · 11-02-2017 10:51 AM

1. Delete this thread
2. Drive the car into a tree
3. Say the accident caused engine damage
4. Have insurance pay for a new engine, or total the car out
5. Get a new engine, or get a new car

**ven0m** · 11-02-2017 05:37 PM

Op, sorry for what happened. Worst case scenario for any car owner.

Didn't the car start hesitating the moment the gasket blew and the crank-case lost it's vacuum?How come no oil-light? That's very strange!

In your situation I would take the old engine apart, to see what parts are salvageable and after that check with 034 if they would be willing to re-assemble a new engine with said parts. If not, get a new complete engine and save the parts you salvaged for spares or sell them.

**WTF its Arturo** · 11-02-2017 11:41 PM

Thanks all for the recommendations.

@Mattshaver - Do you have the paperwork for your engine replacement? Do you know if it was an Audi reman'd engine or if it was a used engine that was sourced?

@Marky G - Thanks man, I hope so too!

@Travish - Hah! I wouldn't have ever thought about that as a potential option.

@venom - I know :-/ I knew that tracking would eventually break something, and it was doing amazing for 1.5 years. Something was bound to happen, but was hoping for something a lot less expensive lol. How long have you been tracking and has there been any major corrective maintenance that you've had to perform?

WRT to the loose valve cover and oil all over the place, I didn't get any lights whatsoever.

For salvaging of old parts and rebuilding of engine with new parts, they are able to perform, but do not feel comfortable warrantying it. Which sounds very much like a gamble to me when I can spend little more to have peace of mind in the case that something else does occur.

**ven0m** · 11-03-2017 03:28 AM

Originally Posted by WTF its Arturo

@venom - I know :-/ I knew that tracking would eventually break something, and it was doing amazing for 1.5 years. Something was bound to happen, but was hoping for something a lot less expensive lol. How long have you been tracking and has there been any major corrective maintenance that you've had to perform?

WRT to the loose valve cover and oil all over the place, I didn't get any lights whatsoever.

For salvaging of old parts and rebuilding of engine with new parts, they are able to perform, but do not feel comfortable warrantying it. Which sounds very much like a gamble to me when I can spend little more to have peace of mind in the case that something else does occur.

Sad to see that sight in the oil pan, I wouldn't wish that to anybody

Lets say I've been pushing my car for somewhere the past 2 years now. But honestly it wasn't only on track, as I have a few empty mountain roads close by where you can really get at the car/suspension for 15-20min straight up to the top of the mountain. So it has taken a lot of abuse over the past years. OEM suspension was the first part that gave in, so I went with a more track oriented setup, that I can setup the wheel alignment as i pleased and to reduce all that road dampening via rubber bushings. Engine wise I have to knock on some wood, as I haven't had any issues.

Maintenance wise: I keep my oil fresh with a higher tolerance race oil (Millers CFS 5w40 NT+; it is more or less the equivalent of Motul 300V). Fresh filters, plugs and all other fluids in the car. I check my compression and spark plugs on a regular basis. So far I only did regular carbon cleans and changed the PCV / N80 valve on the motor. On my next carbon clean I will also exchange injectors with new ones.

Additional: I have a Qmatis VFIZ module installed, that lets me keep an eye on VCDS data inside the dash-display, so I always keep an eye on my fuel pressure, oil pressure and fuel trims.

On track care: I think the most you can do for the longevity of a tracked road-car is keeping an eye on temperatures during your track session and to keep in mind of doing warm-up/cool-down laps.
I always idle the car a few minutes before going on track, and the first 1-2 laps I let the oil gradualy increase temp and at the same time warm-up the tyres. Then I do a few "hot laps". And at the end when the oil is at about 130-140°C (266-284°F) I start easing off, but not completely. I do 2 somewhat slower laps (-20%), after that I do a cool-down lap. And when I get to the pits I let the car idle for 5min, that the fluids still circulate and the oil gets to about 100°C (212°F).

But at the end of the day it's all down to lady luck. Keep in mind we are tracking 11 year old cars. This is the equivalent of Russian roulette.

**blubusdrvr** · 11-03-2017 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by travish325

1. Delete this thread
2. Drive the car into a tree
3. Say the accident caused engine damage
4. Have insurance pay for a new engine, or total the car out
5. Get a new engine, or get a new car

Ha!!! In all seriousness, this is heartbreaking and unfortunately, no matter how well we care for them, as these cars get older and miles get higher I think we'll see more and more catastrophic failures such as this.

**Chandler** · 11-03-2017 08:20 PM

Is the far financed at all? I hope not :(

I would wait for an engine to turn up - or a salvage car with a good motor to appear and do a swap. Rebuilding the engine is going to be a lot of $$ for the car's value, unless you plan on building a monster engine with a lot of mods - but to upgrade anything, add boost (I don't mean the SC options out there), etc you're looking at an easy 25k in parts I bet - plus the time to install and tune, and likely running into further expenses (custom fab work, etc).

If a motor doesn't turn up in a few months I would try to sell the car as whole and see what you can get, else part it out. Parting it out is not going to be fun though. You need the time to disassemble, and a place to store it along with any pulled parts...

**dsgray16** · 11-05-2017 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by WTF its Arturo

Thanks and great points, Alex!

WRT a factory reman'd short/long block, that's what the thought process is. If I'm going to spend the money on a rebuild, may as well spend the extra 1-2k on having warrantied by Audi should something go awry. There was no coolant loss.

Are you currently running your rebuilt motor? I don't suppose you have any low mileage RS4 motors laying around? ;)

I’m running the lower rotating assembly Alex rebuilt.. runs perfect.. have about 5k on it so far.

My advice would be to find a small shop with a talented young mechanic that has experience building motors, but isn’t changing an arm and a leg for it yet and just wants to get his name out there.. either that or wait for another RS4 to crash.. either way you will end up spending a bunch money. Just no way around that with these motors.

**65vetteC6** · 11-06-2017 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by WTF its Arturo

Thanks and great points, Alex!

WRT a factory reman'd short/long block, that's what the thought process is. If I'm going to spend the money on a rebuild, may as well spend the extra 1-2k on having warrantied by Audi should something go awry. There was no coolant loss.

Are you currently running your rebuilt motor? I don't suppose you have any low mileage RS4 motors laying around? ;)

Yea the shortblock ended up in Dans car. Wish I had a couple low mileage motors laying around, Id imagine they'd pull a premium before race wars. While your old motor is not healthy you should still be able to recoup a chunk of change for it as well.

**WTF its Arturo** · 06-07-2018 11:45 PM

Update:

After months of searching for a nice donor, I finally came across this piece on ebay.

Still not too happy about scoring the cylinder walls, it hurts your wallet pretty significantly.

Car is currently at 034motorsports and will be awaiting its new heart.

**germanstyle** · 06-08-2018 08:13 AM

Not sure if you've actually gone ahead and bought that engine or not, but I will be parting an RS4 in the next week or two here and will have an engine with 120k and fresh carbon clean on it available.

Originally Posted by WTF its Arturo

Update:

After months of searching for a nice donor, I finally came across this piece on ebay.

Still not too happy about scoring the cylinder walls, it hurts your wallet pretty significantly.

Car is currently at 034motorsports and will be awaiting its new heart.

**ven0m** · 06-08-2018 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by WTF its Arturo

Update:

After months of searching for a nice donor, I finally came across this piece on ebay.

Still not too happy about scoring the cylinder walls, it hurts your wallet pretty significantly.

Car is currently at 034motorsports and will be awaiting its new heart.

Glad to see you're getting the old girl back on the road!!

Last I commented was a good year ago and in this time I put another 6 track-days and 1 slalom-event under the wheels; went through 2 sets of tyres and 1 oil-change. Car is running strong (for now). *knocks on wood*

**WTF its Arturo** · 06-09-2018 12:11 PM

@germanstyle - I've already given authorization for 034 to purchase that motor and replace the existing parts.

@venom - yeah, it's been a while! I'd like to get it all back together, but then make the tough decision on if I'd like to keep it thereafter. I recently picked up a B9 SQ5. If I keep the B7, then I won't want to track it due to the expensive nature of the sport and the rarity of the vehicle. If I sell the B7, then I can get a cheaper car (likely an E46) and continue to track that thing. That's awesome man. I wish I could be there with ya! I love driving the RS4 the way that it's meant to be driven.

**sandspeed** · 06-09-2018 02:58 PM

That auction looks like it's for a transmission, not an engine.

**dsgray16** · 06-09-2018 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by WTF its Arturo

Thanks and great points, Alex!

WRT a factory reman'd short/long block, that's what the thought process is. If I'm going to spend the money on a rebuild, may as well spend the extra 1-2k on having warrantied by Audi should something go awry. There was no coolant loss.

Are you currently running your rebuilt motor? I don't suppose you have any low mileage RS4 motors laying around? ;)

I am actually running the lower half he rebuilt.. have about 10k miles on and it’s running strong.

Keep an eye out for a used long block.. I saw a 75k mike one for $7k recently. Not bad at all.

Otherwise that reman short block for $8k doesn’t sound terrible.

Or just 5cyl swap it and build a fast car 🤷*♂️

**WTF its Arturo** · 06-09-2018 04:08 PM

@sandspeed - Thanks for your photos of the longblock that you had. I ultimately went with this one (his listing changed to tranny only) due to the running condition, and the similar mileage to my own vehicle.

@dsgray16 - That's great to hear! I wish he had a spare! I think I know which one you're talking about, but it was involved in a pretty gnarly front end collision. It was also a sprint blue? The reman short block labor + part turned out to be significantly more than just purchasing a used engine. I'm still on the fence on if I want to sell this vehicle after everything is said and done with.

**Teh RS4** · 06-11-2018 03:20 PM

Just browsing through the forums and came across this thread.

Sad story but at least it was being driven like it was meant to be.

Complete tire kicker but IF you were to let it go, what would you want for it?