APR Supercharger Detailed Specification Questions

[bluebull]

I'm currently running the tvs1320. I don't really want to go deep into the pockets and upgrade to a tvs1900... I'm looking for detailed specs on the APR superchargers. For those wondering, I did reach out to APR and got nowhere...apparently this is old technology and not supported anymore. Maybe Arin or a close associate has some of this below information.

tvs1320 - supercharger pulley size
tvs1320 - designed boost levels
Stock fuel pump psi = 1,973(maximum)

tvs1740 - supercharger pulley size
tvs1740 - designed boost levels


Anyone have a source for upgrade their own Hitachi fuel pumps; spring size, bore size, etc?

Anyone done a front side oil service on their supercharger (i.e. - their oil changed); what type of oil did you use?

Anyone running programmed water meth on APR or any other supercharger? I'm thinking offset duel-nozzles in rubber elbow just before entering the throttle body...I don't really want to tap into the supercharger neck or plenum area, but does raise issues with tapping the rubber elbow. The rubber elbow is stiff and believe it can handle tapping just fine. My reasoning for this tap point is because its the supercharger plenum that gets hot which is also where the water cooling and twin vertices are and where the air is just before going in to be burned.

Reason(s):
Looking to machine a smaller front pulley
Looking to run water meth
Looking to custom tune

Any technical info/help would be nice.

Car was last pushing 437awhp

[Softishman]

Hi there!
I have the tvs1320 kit myself and are making a smaller pulley... Have drawing of a 5mm smaller pulley but i am doing mine 8mm smaller.
There are one with 5mm smaller pulley and single nozzle injected w/m here in sweden that was was dynoed 502whp. They tried to make a custom tune but apr has locked the ecus so they coulden’t do anything with it... You will need new ecus and make a complete new tune...
Therefore i am going 8mm smaller pulley and wondering about a 9 nozzle setup of w/m. Tap inte every runner and the elbow. Talked with quintin callahan (are memeber here, q.dubs?) about the snow w/m kit.
Was planned this winter but will be next instead....

[wahpao]

There are one with 5mm smaller pulley and single nozzle injected w/m here in sweden that was was dynoed 502whp. They tried to make a custom tune but apr has locked the ecus so they coulden’t do anything with it... You will need new ecus and make a complete new tune...

Interesting...the APR1740 kit dynoed at 517whp. So you’re saying the 502whp was from an APR1320 and APR tune but with a 5mm smaller pulley and W/M injection? How did you advance the timing to get the full benefit of the W/M injection without custom tune? How much PSI was he running?

[Softishman]

Interesting...the APR1740 kit dynoed at 517whp. So you’re saying the 502whp was from an APR1320 and APR tune but with a 5mm smaller pulley and W/M injection? How did you advance the timing to get the full benefit of the W/M injection without custom tune? How much PSI was he running?

Yes, a tvs1320 kit! Like the one i have ;) They coulden’t change anything witk the tune so only 5mm smaller pulley and a single w/m injector at the elbow. The w/m is not optimized to the tune but still produce positive effects! The ecu with apr tune can advance timing little by itself (self adapting) but maybe not as much as you want?! Don’t know how much PSI (or BAR) he is running but the car runs good!

[wahpao]

So what your saying is not possible. An adaptive tune is the ecu recalibrating to what’s in its parameters based off what the sensors are reading. These programs have already been written on the file. For instance if you increase the diameter of the exhaust, the O2 sensors are there to take a reading of increased flow. JHM writes multiple files for a combination of setups. The ecu is going through a series of true /false commands and this is considered “adapting”.
What your saying is asking the ECU to write custom file. If what you were saying is true, then we don’t need custom tunes. It is not an AI and does not have the ability to tune or rewrite maps. APR does not offer optional pulley sizes for their S/C kits so why would there be a map for it to adapt to? If you are adding boost then you also have to compensate for fuel, air and timing or you are going to have detonation.
The ecu isn’t going to know what W/M is also unless there wasn’t a condition for it to adapt to as well. By adding a smaller pulley, you are essentially increasing boost pressure. I don’t see how they yielded these figures without doing a custom tune and you didn’t mention anything about the HPFPs being upgraded.

What your saying would negate one upgrading to the TVS1740 kit. If all one had to do is add a smaller pulley and a W/M kit to achieve the same HP figures the why not just do that? Plus they wouldn’t even have to upgrade the HPFPs. Every S/C kit is running upgraded HPFPs to obtain 500whp.

Maybe I’m wrong, anyone else want to share their thoughts?
Could I see the dyno or a link to the build? What type of dyno did they use to measure the hp?

[ven0m]

Guys mind if I thread-jack with a quick question since I'm in the waters to buy an APR supercharger in the near future and am currently changing my clutch/flywheel. So I wanted to ask what combo you guys are running?

I read that a lot of SC manufacturers recommend the OEM dual-mass flywheel due to single-mass flywheel producing too many harmonics which consequently damages the SC via harmonics transfer through the crank. Does this also apply to the APR superchargers or do the pulleys have any kind of harmonics dampener?

For clutch I was considering a SACHS Performance clutch kit, as they are local to me or does APR have any recommended clutch setup?

[bluebull]

So what your saying is not possible. An adaptive tune is the ecu recalibrating to what’s in its parameters based off what the sensors are reading. These programs have already been written on the file. For instance if you increase the diameter of the exhaust, the O2 sensors are there to take a reading of increased flow. JHM writes multiple files for a combination of setups. The ecu is going through a series of true /false commands and this is considered “adapting”.
What your saying is asking the ECU to write custom file. If what you were saying is true, then we don’t need custom tunes. It is not an AI and does not have the ability to tune or rewrite maps. APR does not offer optional pulley sizes for their S/C kits so why would there be a map for it to adapt to? If you are adding boost then you also have to compensate for fuel, air and timing or you are going to have detonation.
The ecu isn’t going to know what W/M is also unless there wasn’t a condition for it to adapt to as well. By adding a smaller pulley, you are essentially increasing boost pressure. I don’t see how they yielded these figures without doing a custom tune and you didn’t mention anything about the HPFPs being upgraded.

What your saying would negate one upgrading to the TVS1740 kit. If all one had to do is add a smaller pulley and a W/M kit to achieve the same HP figures the why not just do that? Plus they wouldn’t even have to upgrade the HPFPs. Every S/C kit is running upgraded HPFPs to obtain 500whp.

Maybe I’m wrong, anyone else want to share their thoughts?
Could I see the dyno or a link to the build? What type of dyno did they use to measure the hp?

So this is where I should document the water-meth before/after...would like to do it before I do a smaller pulley, but don't really want to tune twice...we'll see...maybe start a go-fund-me...

Devils Own, Snow Performance, AEM, all say 10-20% gains. It seems, without all the requested details and testing logs, that the WM with smaller pulley MIGHT/COULD get you some AWHP without a real true custom tune; basically because of denser air/cooler air temps. I'm now running just shy of 450 AWHP. It could be far fetched to think one could achieve 500 without proper tuning and lower air temps on APR's 93 tune, but don't know. I think we'll be surprised at AWHP gains with proper tuning and not APR's 93 tune. Say 450 * 15% = 517...just for water-meth; no pulley. I plan to run a 50/50 mix. Any stock cars running water-meth; (would be interesting to see those gains)??

http://speed.academy/methanol-inject...d-power-gains/ This system has fail safes in place to avoid detonation knock.

I've only heard that each APR 1320 is about 5-7psi and 1740 is about 12-14psi. So then with smaller pulley; I'm really only looking to gain a few psi; like a midway point as a start. A little psi gain with stock HPFP's should be fine I would think. My AFR right now is about 12.4. I'll learn more as data gets logged in stock pulley size position.

All said, I want to forge ahead. Since I'm thinking of driving to the National RS4 meet, I'd like to have this done before then.

VENOM... I'm running southbend Stage 3 with light flywheel. I'm sure there are many satisfactory stage 3 setups.

[Akbluedog]

Where can I find a 5mm smaller pulley for the TVS1320?


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[LINDW4LL]

So what your saying is not possible. An adaptive tune is the ecu recalibrating to what’s in its parameters based off what the sensors are reading. These programs have already been written on the file. For instance if you increase the diameter of the exhaust, the O2 sensors are there to take a reading of increased flow. JHM writes multiple files for a combination of setups. The ecu is going through a series of true /false commands and this is considered “adapting”.

Maybe I’m wrong, anyone else want to share their thoughts?
Could I see the dyno or a link to the build? What type of dyno did they use to measure the hp?

I'd guess his " apr tune can advance timing little by itself" comment to mean that the APR tune wasn't achieving full timing advance on straight pump fuel (had some timing pull), and that the WMI allowed for more timing and more power. Thus "adapting" to the WMI, though obviously the maps aren't actually changing.

[bluebull]

Where can I find a 5mm smaller pulley for the TVS1320?


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I’m trying to confirm this but the APR tvs superchargers have pressed on pulleys that are mounted on the wet side of the charger.

I’ve located a source for a pulley milled to our spec for $250 or so (aluminum fully treated for hardness) but getting on and off the car while having the supercharger still mounted could be the challenging issue.

I’m considering a supercharger removal and pulley swap (and oil change) while off the car.... this adds a ton of cost so also looking at being able to do it on the car...

I’ll circle back with everyone when I have more information



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[wahpao]

So this is where I should document the water-meth before/after...would like to do it before I do a smaller pulley, but don't really want to tune twice...we'll see...maybe start a go-fund-me...

Devils Own, Snow Performance, AEM, all say 10-20% gains. It seems, without all the requested details and testing logs, that the WM with smaller pulley MIGHT/COULD get you some AWHP without a real true custom tune; basically because of denser air/cooler air temps. I'm now running just shy of 450 AWHP. It could be far fetched to think one could achieve 500 without proper tuning and lower air temps on APR's 93 tune, but don't know. I think we'll be surprised at AWHP gains with proper tuning and not APR's 93 tune. Say 450 * 15% = 517...just for water-meth; no pulley. I plan to run a 50/50 mix. Any stock cars running water-meth; (would be interesting to see those gains)??

http://speed.academy/methanol-inject...d-power-gains/ This system has fail safes in place to avoid detonation knock.

I've only heard that each APR 1320 is about 5-7psi and 1740 is about 12-14psi. So then with smaller pulley; I'm really only looking to gain a few psi; like a midway point as a start. A little psi gain with stock HPFP's should be fine I would think. My AFR right now is about 12.4. I'll learn more as data gets logged in stock pulley size position.

All said, I want to forge ahead. Since I'm thinking of driving to the National RS4 meet, I'd like to have this done before then.

VENOM... I'm running southbend Stage 3 with light flywheel. I'm sure there are many satisfactory stage 3 setups.

I don’t think you are getting the concept of the W/M injection kit.

To get the optimal hp gains, you will have to advance the timing.

The W/M injection kit does the following without remap
-lowers IATs
-Suppresses detonation

(Without the custom tune to advance the timing, this is what you are looking at. A few hp gain but more importantly, you will not lose HP due to heat soak)

With remap
-advance timing
-increase boost
-higher oct

= horsepower

These WMI kits aren’t yielding the HP figures as advertised. But as far as cooling goes, they are very efficient IMHO. Even the the article you referenced, EVO on gained 20whp which was only 5.7% and a SCd R8 gained 19whp , only 3.9%

The cooling aspect I would even consider now that I got to read up more about theses kits.

The APR1320 SC runs at 8 PSI per Audi revolution. You should have an idea of how much boost you are running.

[Softishman]

I'd guess his " apr tune can advance timing little by itself" comment to mean that the APR tune wasn't achieving full timing advance on straight pump fuel (had some timing pull), and that the WMI allowed for more timing and more power. Thus "adapting" to the WMI, though obviously the maps aren't actually changing.

Exactly!!!

[wahpao]

I’m trying to confirm this but the APR tvs superchargers have pressed on pulleys that are mounted on the wet side of the charger.

I’ve located a source for a pulley milled to our spec for $250 or so (aluminum fully treated for hardness) but getting on and off the car while having the supercharger still mounted could be the challenging issue.

I’m considering a supercharger removal and pulley swap (and oil change) while off the car.... this adds a ton of cost so also looking at being able to do it on the car...

I’ll circle back with everyone when I have more information

Wait wait? You talked to APR and asked them what the pulley size was for the TVS1320 but instead they responded with their in house installation technique? Who are you confirming this with rn. Do you mind if I try with who whoever you are conversing with?

You never responded back on who this person was that dynoed over 500whp on the APR1340, WMI kit and smaller pulley on their base SC tune.

[bluebull]

Wait wait? You talked to APR and asked them what the pulley size was for the TVS1320 but instead they responded with their in house installation technique? Who are you confirming this with rn. Do you mind if I try with who whoever you are conversing with?

You never responded back on who this person was that dynoed over 500whp on the APR1340, WMI kit and smaller pulley on their base SC tune.

I’ve talked to 3 people at APR. Arin was one of them and figured beforehand that he might be able to put me in touch with the right person. He did relay those boost levels achieved. I don’t have the other two peoples names but one had an English accent. In all cases, zero technical data on supercharger pulley size. Kind of doesn’t matter in a sense because I’ll need to remove it and then can tell the machinest to make two pulleys based off stock; 5mm and 8mm smaller.

I would love for others to get involved... any info you track down or way to measure pulley size on car helps.

SOFTISHMAN indicates he has someone that did 500awhp with the base tune, smaller pulley, and w/m... not me... but really want to hear more about this.

Let’s keep this thread real... thanks


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[wahpao]

I'd guess his " apr tune can advance timing little by itself" comment to mean that the APR tune wasn't achieving full timing advance on straight pump fuel (had some timing pull), and that the WMI allowed for more timing and more power. Thus "adapting" to the WMI, though obviously the maps aren't actually changing.

Exactly!!!

It’s doesn’t operate like that you. The ECU can’t adapt to hardware that it hasn’t been programmed for. That’s what’s adapting means. You tune the car with all the possible hardware and readings the sensors may encounter. Example : IATs, AFRs, altitude, exhaust, octane , etc.
It can’t adapt to something that it doesn’t recognize. So no it can’t just advance timing without the car being tuned for how much timing to advance when X amount of the WM enters the combustion chamber and suppress the detonation.

[LINDW4LL]

It’s doesn’t operate like that you. The ECU can’t adapt to hardware that it hasn’t been programmed for. That’s what’s adapting means. You tune the car with all the possible hardware and readings the sensors may encounter. Example : IATs, AFRs, altitude, exhaust, octane , etc.
It can’t adapt to something that it doesn’t recognize. So no it can’t just advance timing without the car being tuned for how much timing to advance when X amount of the WM enters the combustion chamber and suppress the detonation.

You're missing the point. Even factory tunes often result in some timing being pulled out even with the designated fuel. For example, stock B8 S4s on 93 octane almost always see some amount of timing correction. The same goes for aftermarket 93 octane tunes. There is almost always some degree of timing being pulled. In other words, the maps in the ECU may be written to allow for 20 degrees of timing advance, but knock is sensed resulting in the engine only achieving 17 degrees of advance (so pulling back 3 degrees- all made up numbers btw).

In any case like this, adding race gas or WMI will allow the engine to achieve the full timing advance as is written in the tune (in other words, prevent timing pull). Obviously if the car is already hitting peak timing as written on the tune on 93, then there would be no benefit to WMI.

[65vetteC6]

Guys mind if I thread-jack with a quick question since I'm in the waters to buy an APR supercharger in the near future and am currently changing my clutch/flywheel. So I wanted to ask what combo you guys are running?

I read that a lot of SC manufacturers recommend the OEM dual-mass flywheel due to single-mass flywheel producing too many harmonics which consequently damages the SC via harmonics transfer through the crank. Does this also apply to the APR superchargers or do the pulleys have any kind of harmonics dampener?

For clutch I was considering a SACHS Performance clutch kit, as they are local to me or does APR have any recommended clutch setup?

The crank pulley on the motor is dampened so while removing the OEM clutch for a single mass is a somewhat controversial topic there is still some damping in the front pulley. That is unless you swap that one out as well for a JHM for example.


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[wahpao]

You're missing the point. Even factory tunes often result in some timing being pulled out even with the designated fuel. For example, stock B8 S4s on 93 octane almost always see some amount of timing correction. The same goes for aftermarket 93 octane tunes. There is almost always some degree of timing being pulled. In other words, the maps in the ECU may be written to allow for 20 degrees of timing advance, but knock is sensed resulting in the engine only achieving 17 degrees of advance (so pulling back 3 degrees- all made up numbers btw).

In any case like this, adding race gas or WMI will allow the engine to achieve the full timing advance as is written in the tune (in other words, prevent timing pull). Obviously if the car is already hitting peak timing as written on the tune on 93, then there would be no benefit to WMI.

LOL. Advancing the timing to peak hp output is far different from advancing timing to what can be tolerated before your engine detonates. You seem to be confusing the two. That’s the art of being a tuner, to find that balance of reliability vs power by calibrating how much timing to advance safely. Too much timing causing detonation. That’s exactly the reason why a WMI can be beneficial. The lower temps are what suppress detonation.

Not sure what you dot understand. Knock or Detonation is something you absolutely don’t want to occur because it destroys the engine. So if youre waiting for the knock to be sensed than the damage is already done. LMAO fucking hilarious. And just image trying to drive a car that is constantly in and out of power on WOT.? Please just stop responding Bc you sound like an idiot I’m sorry🤦🏻*♂️

[LINDW4LL]

LOL. Advancing the timing to peak hp output is far different from advancing timing to what can be tolerated before your engine detonates. You seem to be confusing the two. That’s the art of being a tuner, to find that balance of reliability vs power by calibrating how much timing to advance safely. Too much timing causing detonation. That’s exactly the reason why a WMI can be beneficial. The lower temps are what suppress detonation.

I feel like you're just picking a fight.

Fact: Tunes almost always have some timing correction/pull except in perfect conditions. WMI will allow for the full amount of timing advance, as written in the tune, to be achieved. Thus how WMI can still have some benefit without a custom tune.

Also fact: The tune can obviously not "adapt" beyond the timing maps as are written into the file (and as such, likely cannot take full advantage of WMI's extra octane and cooling properties).

How is this confusing or debatable?

[wahpao]

https://youtu.be/FAb5IfKKsXo

At 2:15 is when they tune the car the 2nd time but now with the WMI Kit now.

http://speed.academy/methanol-inject...d-power-gains/





How does one not take advantage of low IATs being 100 degrees cooler? That was the biggest issue for my JHM SC RS4 and not being IC. Constantly heat soaked and the tune would retard the timing. If this water air IC can’t keep the temps down than why not add the WMI kit?

I’m wrong a lot too, so it’s ok brother. We all are learning new shit everyday.

[Blue AWD]

I’m with LINDW4LL. Even without a tune, adding WMI or race gas will add gains, obviously not even close to if it were tweaked within the time, but everything he is saying is correct.

[wahpao]

I’m with LINDW4LL. Even without a tune, adding WMI or race gas will add gains, obviously not even close to if it were tweaked within the time, but everything he is saying is correct.

I don’t think you are getting the concept of the W/M injection kit.

To get the optimal hp gains, you will have to advance the timing.

The W/M injection kit does the following without remap
-lowers IATs
-Suppresses detonation

(Without the custom tune to advance the timing or boost, this is what you are looking at. A few hp gain)

With remap
-advance timing
-increase boost
-higher oct

= horsepower

These WMI kits aren’t yielding the HP figures as advertised. But as far as cooling goes, they are very efficient IMHO. Even the the article you referenced, EVO on gained 20whp which was only 5.7% and a SCd R8 gained 19whp , only 3.9%

The cooling aspect I would even consider now that I got to read up more about theses kits.

The APR1320 SC runs at 8 PSI per Audi revolution. You should have an idea of how much boost you are running.

I’m confused. He was the one that stated that when a tuned vehicle added a WMI Kit , that there was no timing to further advance because it was already addressed in the base tune. The WMI Kit he stated would only create the best conditions for tune to Gain from the optimal advanced timing. He stated that the optimal advance timing calibration was written in the tune.

My argument to that was how could you the timing be calibrated at the optimal setting if WMI mixture to was not used lower temps to suppress detonation And further advance it to create more HP. He never responded back. I had posted a video and references to support my argument. If you agree with him and I’m wrong, pls provide a reference so that I may see another perspectiv3.

[Softishman]

I’m with LINDW4LL. Even without a tune, adding WMI or race gas will add gains, obviously not even close to if it were tweaked within the time, but everything he is saying is correct.

I agree!! The cars ecu always has room for some minor adjustments. That is what i call adapting. To meet the perfect conditions.

I will talk to the tuner Dahlbäck who dynoed the car i talked about. I don’t have more info about this right now. They tried to change the tune but then the cars barerly run at all, so they had to undo thier changes. They wasen’t able to to anything with the tune... the dialed in the wmi and dynoed the car to 502 whp. The car is for sale here in Sweden now.

Link: https://m.blocket.se/goteborg/Audi_R....htm?ca=11&w=3

I have cad drawings of a 5mm smaller pulley that are used on the car! I have a shop making a 8mm smaller pulley for me aswell, i will then buy a snow w/m kit from usrt (Quintin) with 9 injectors, one in every intake runner (need some fabricating to be done) and one in the elbow. Because APR has locked the ecu (both) the tune can’t be altered.

I have talked to an apr dealer in england (forgot who) and the pr dealer in Sweden (the owner has a apr s/c rs4 tvs1320) but they will not unlock the ecu for me. They told me that apr in england had tried the tvs1320 with a 5mm smaller pulley and a 10mm smaller pulley but they don’t produce and sell them.

The best would be new ecus and a new tune but, that is going to be expensive but will bring the full benefit of wmi and smaller pulley. That will hopefully come later for me!

[wahpao]

What are minor adjustments that it’s adapting to per day to meet the perfect conditions.

As long as these perfect conditions and minor adjustments were written into the flash, it can adapt to it. And the reason for that is because when it recognizes the changes the ECU has been programmed for it.

[wahpao]

From what I observed, somebody is lying. The FS description states that the RS4 has the APR 1740 kit installed but pics obviously show a APR1320 kit . It does state a dyno is available. I would almost bet that it was from another APR1740 owner.

When you guys had initially talked about doing a smaller pulley set up, I was gong to tell you how IMHO it could be if you decided to go that route, like catastrophic bad. Just read what measures APR takes to do their pulley upgrade. Audi actually uses the same Eaton TVs1320 on their stock B8S4, the same in the APR1340 kit and I wondered if their pulleys would actually fit better then having them made. I would say that Dahlbäck was lying to you about the whole story. Especially if they said the ECU were locked and not able to be tuned but someone they did but the cars ran like shit? So they were or weren’t locked by APR. see if you can get the dyno.

[Softishman]

I have allready mentioned that for the previous seller, he does not know better, but that specific car has been dynoed to 502whp!! What i know of, there aren’t one tvs1740 in Sweden at all!!
Dahlbäck doesn’t lie!! The ecu are locked! APR told me that themself aswell!!!
If you don’t have anything to bring to this conversation, just leave!

Just talked to Dahlbäck again and i am getting dyno sharts later, the dyno is connected at the hubs so not really whp but pretty close. The apr tune is a little rich on fuel so he didn’t upgraded the hpfp.
AEM w/m with one injetor at the elbow. Viktor said the car run really well!!

[Peter1.8t]

This thread is all over the place.

You can adjust timing with vagcom if APR has that enabled, which I highly doubt they would.

Secondly, don’t focus on PSI, especially in comparison to other cars like the b8. There’s many cooling upgrades for that platform, yet packaging is tight on the RS4. Blower rpm is what you should be watching, higher the speed, the more heat there is. They also have max rpms for blowers, so if it’s spinning as hard as possibly it’s probably best not to continue.

I’m not sure what the blower speed is on the 1320 kit but you could calculate it. If on the base tune the car is already seeing high CF there’s no point in making it spin faster. WMI could help alleviate this, but you better make damn sure that WMI has failsafes in place if it fails or you’ll be seeing a melt down.

[Peter1.8t]

We haven’t even started to talk about fuel injection yet. That’s a whole different issue. The injectors can keep up, the HPFP’s will most likely not. Intank is right on the edge. Still the trims will be off and the ecu can only adjust so much. Anytime more air goes into the motor you need more fuel. That whole table would need to be adjusted.

[Softishman]

If you check afr value you can read how the engine runs and what is safe and what isen’t. As soon i have more data about the car i will post it. Dahlbäck told me that the car doesen’t need any duel upgrade, they are tuned to go little rich from apr... So fuel shoulden’t be a problem if you not chasing big numbers...
about heat, killer chiller can be a solution to that aswell the wmi. Agree about to have failsafe!!

[wahpao]

I have allready mentioned that for the previous seller, he does not know better, but that specific car has been dynoed to 502whp!! What i know of, there aren’t one tvs1740 in Sweden at all!!
Dahlbäck doesn’t lie!! The ecu are locked! APR told me that themself aswell!!!
If you don’t have anything to bring to this conversation, just leave!

Just talked to Dahlbäck again and i am getting dyno sharts later, the dyno is connected at the hubs so not really whp but pretty close. The apr tune is a little rich on fuel so he didn’t upgraded the hpfp.
AEM w/m with one injetor at the elbow. Viktor said the car run really well!!

So pls share with us your thoughts then? Are you that naive or you just want to believe that you the car can make 502whp on the APR1320?
I’m sorry to burst your bubble.

The stock fuel pumps flow rate couldn’t meet the demands in the increase of HP. JHM STG 1.5, APR1740 AMD HP SC kits needed upgraded HPFPs to make over 500whp.


What your saying doesn’t even make sense. There’s so many variables that can cause a car to run rich.
Why is no other APR1320 else running rich?

“the dyno is connected at the hubs so not really whp but pretty close.” Pls take a sec to think about what you said.

You can’t just increase the boost without addressing fuel, and timing and just crank out another 80whp. This is just basic knowledge on how cars work.

Please Pete1.8t, pls help me talk some sense into these guys before they blow their cars up.

[wahpao]

Pic shows a APR1320 kit with no mention of that kit. You said it has stock fuel pumps but the car description states HPFPs, APR1740 kit with 630hp. When the seller bought the car in June did it already have all the mods? When I look at this description, it looks like someone is trying to pull the wool over my eyes.

[Softishman]

Plz, that car has 1320 but seller doesen’t know better, he has just googled apr s/c... I have talked to the guy who build the car also!

what i mean is you get a slighty higer hp when measuring straight to the hubs with no wheels on vs rollers! FACT!
My car runs rich, and the avant we are talking about did aswell.
Think what you want, i will get the dyno sharts later and will show you.

[wahpao]

Plz, that car has 1320 but seller doesen’t know better, he has just googled apr s/c... I have talked to the guy who build the car also!

what i mean is you get a slighty higer hp when measuring straight to the hubs with no wheels on vs rollers! FACT!
My car runs rich, and the avant we are talking about did aswell.
Think what you want, i will get the dyno sharts later and will show you.

What are your AFRs at idle/load?

[bluebull]

What are your AFRs at idle/load?

Here is a partial pic of mine on APR 91 tune. I’ll take a picture of the full chart when I get home.

I’m now running the 93 tune...



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[wahpao]

Here is a partial pic of mine on APR 91 tune. I’ll take a picture of the full chart when I get home.

I’m now running the 93 tune...



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Are you running lean? Now I’m confused. And other data? How’s the car running overall, are you putting down the, are you putting down the numbers as advertised by JHM?

Soft you post yours to compare to see how your cars are running .

[bluebull]

Are you running lean? Now I’m confused. And other data? How’s the car running overall, are you putting down the, are you putting down the numbers as advertised by JHM?

Soft you post yours to compare to see how your cars are running .

I don’t think I’m running lean... this run was on the APR 91 tune with JHM full + high flow cats.... I’m now running APR 93 tune with JHM full + test pipes



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[Striddy]

Another SC debate on this forum.....ya' don't say.

[wahpao]

I don’t think I’m running lean... this run was on the APR 91 tune with JHM full + high flow cats.... I’m now running APR 93 tune with JHM full + test pipes



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Ok now I’m able to see the plot points. You are running on the rich side. How much power are you making now on 93 oct? j

[bluebull]

Ok now I’m able to see the plot points. You are running on the rich side. How much power are you making now on 93 oct? j

Don’t know the power level on mine but have heard from others that run very similar settings @ 445-450awhp

Futrell Autoworks has a YouTube of before and after running the 1320 and hitting +/-450 on 91 tune


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[bluebull]

So, let's try and keep the beat downs to a minimum.

My interest in w/m was to reduce IAT's on a heat soaked supercharger. Let's make it clear, the w/m will not operate at peak without proper tuning. It would be fun to test without tuning, but I'm not your guy. w/m will lower IAT's which in turn will cause an enriching fuel mixture. My 1320 does run rich already, I can frigg'n smell it and see it at WOT. Don't forget, methanol is a fuel. All should help to adjust in the w/m tuning process...begs the question; do I need to upgrade fuel pumps because of all this "extra"? Probably wont know until tuning time. This explains it well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC5Gu29OaOI

Peter is right with sc rpm. w/m helps cool that heat generated from higher sc rpm... but there is only so much spin in the 1320... so, that begs the question about pulley size. More research needs to be done and maybe there are some answers at Harrop or Magnuson. This could be a dead end, but continue to hear about people having success with smaller pulley.

Note on the APR tunes...the files are locked, I've tried to get into it to pass oregon DEQ because some are not in "readyness mode" ... APR would NOT give me access.

One other note... The APR tvs systems utilize a pressed on pulley. The new 8/8.5 S4's pulley bolt on...so fat chance making those work across the platforms. Further, I believe (and not sure it matters) but the 8/8.5 run a tvs 1300.

-m