Does this alignment job look correct?

[Fourcircle]

Along with new tires (DWS06), I got an alignment done yesterday on my 2015 S4 auto with 19s and 40k on the odometer. I needed one because the inside shoulder of the old front passenger tire (PSS) showed excessive wear compared to the other tires. The shop handed me this printout at checkout. I didn't talk to the tech who performed the alignment, but the sales guy said the camber on the front wheels isn't adjustable, and that compensation was figured in to alleviate the aforementioned front tire wear. Said their alignment guy had 40 years experience and 'he's the best'. Should I be concerned with the red numbers, and that the vehicle parameters selected were not even my car (S4), but instead an A/S/RS5 coupe? I think it was a hunter alignment rack used, but not 100% sure.




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[Silver Streakin]

40 years of apparent laziness. Take it back. Just because front camber can’t be adjusted doesn’t mean the toe can’t either. So the pass front wears the most and they do nothing about it? It was the most toe before. Now, it has even MORE toe. Dial that out.

[whts4]

It appears that they "barely" tweaked the front passenger toe from 0.13 to 0.15 to add more toe in. The logic is sound, by assuming that the tire is wearing due to insufficient toe in, he added toe. Just bc it went slightly outside the "normal" shouldn't alarm you. However, an additional 0.02 deg of toe, especially when you were already near the recommended max toe setup of 0.13 and only done on one side, is unlikely to resolve a wear issue.

He should have set both front tires to the identical toe, ie 0.13 both sides....bc the car will seek the middle (average) toe between the front tires when driven. So adjusting only one side or having a substancial difference side to side is possibly the cause of your tire wear. Have them or someone else set it up equal toe side to side.

As long as your camber is within 0.5 degree side to side, it shouldn't affect tire wear with a setting in the -1.0 to -2.0 range....again don't worry about the "red" bc it is close to factory recommendations. Front camber is not adjustable.

[Silver Streakin]

Agreed above...with further explanation than my 6am response without coffee.

The difference side to side is alarming to me of someone of 40 years. That before 13 and after 15 should’ve been adjust to a 9-10.

[whts4]

Fyi, since alignments are static setups and usually wo/drivers weight, the toe will change slightly when driven. The more weight that is added causes the front McPherson strut suspension to usually lose (more toe out) .02 to .04 deg with +200 lbs and the rear link suspension gains (more toe in) of 0.1 to 0.3 for the same +200 lbs.

If you primarily do hwy driving especially with added passengers you might want to bias your alignment (toe) to have the static front toe near the max side of toe (in) and the rears slightly less toe (in)... I prefer 0.00 rear toe static.

[doughboy17]

There is a lot more expertise in this thread than me, but I would be concerned that the printout is for an A5/S5/RS5.

[kelseysautobody]

I would assume the A5/S5 uses all the same alignment specs but that's just lazy of the tech to not even choose the correct vehicle. Take it back to them and ask to put in the correct vehicle and redo the alignment. Even if the car is driving fine say it doesn't feel right.

[Fourcircle]

Thanks everyone for your replies. The good news is that the tire install and balance is exceptionally good. And the car appears to track straight, no handling concerns. Coming from PSS, I was worried these new DWS06 might not balance or handle well, but I gotta say, I am impressed! I stopped by another tire dealer today and asked them about the alignment printout. Was told that the tire wear was likely from time spent between rotations on the right rear, since it was out so much. The new alignment did correct that, but he suggested that the shop should have better adjusted the right front, and worked to make it match the left front better. He said the differences are minor, but could and should have been dialed in better. The vehicle named on report prob not relevant, although that too should be accurate.

I plan to take her back and ask for a touch up.


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[Silver Streakin]

Fyi, since alignments are static setups and usually wo/drivers weight, the toe will change slightly when driven. The more weight that is added causes the front McPherson strut suspension to usually lose (more toe out) .02 to .04 deg with +200 lbs and the rear link suspension gains (more toe in) of 0.1 to 0.3 for the same +200 lbs.

If you primarily do hwy driving especially with added passengers you might want to bias your alignment (toe) to have the static front toe near the max side of toe (in) and the rears slightly less toe (in)... I prefer 0.00 rear toe static.

True. but some shops like mine have weights to put on the driver’s mat or just let me sit in the car. I drove the car onto the alignment rack last time in my DTM because he wanted to watch that the CF lip didn’t hit or my exhaust.

This is why going to random tire shops is a waste of time and money.

[Fourcircle]

Anyone know if the factory recommended alignment specs for the S4 are the same as that of the A/S/RS5 (with sport suspension)?


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[u2nelson]

IMO that is a crap alignment for sure. First too much toe in is what causes inner tire shoulder wear, your original concern, and now you have even more toe in. You will probably have inner tire shoulder wear again. I would take the front toe to .10 total and it should be balanced. Maybe not as important, but I would reduce the rear toe also, again .10 seems to be plenty. It is true that with out adjustable UCArms the camber and caster are not adjustable in the front. The rear is adjustable. I don't know for certain, but most likely the alignment specs for the S4 are the same as the S5, as they share the same components in the suspension. Also you should rotate front to back your tires about every oil change, you will see much better life out of your tires if you do this.

[awwturbo]

I stay away from places like Town Fair Tire, NTB and the such. They don't do good alignments, period... I get mine done at the local Audi dealership and have always been pleased with the outcome. As far as specs from S4 to S5, a lot of the suspension components are the same so I would imagine alignment specs would follow.

[whts4]

IMO that is a crap alignment for sure. First too much toe in is what causes inner tire shoulder wear, your original concern, and now you have even more toe in. You will probably have inner tire shoulder wear again. I would take the front toe to .10 total and it should be balanced. Maybe not as important, but I would reduce the rear toe also, again .10 seems to be plenty. It is true that with out adjustable UCArms the camber and caster are not adjustable in the front. The rear is adjustable. I don't know for certain, but most likely the alignment specs for the S4 are the same as the S5, as they share the same components in the suspension. Also you should rotate front to back your tires about every oil change, you will see much better life out of your tires if you do this.

In my experience excessive toe in causes outer tire wear, too much toe out causes inner wear. Do I have it backwards?

[Fourcircle]

Update: Went back to shop, explained my concerns about potentially wrong car being selected (S5 instead of S4) and red flags on the report. Sales person and owner were apologetic, agreed to recheck and redo the alignment. I was relieved because I depend on them for excellent tire install and balance work. After about 20-30 minutes, the owner handed me the attached report (1st attached) and asked if it looked good to me. I noted that the vehicle info was now correct (now S4, not S5) and that all the numbers were in the green. Respecting their input, I asked if he and his tech thought this was good and he said yes. I'm not certain, but don't think they made any further adjustments. BTW the car rides perfectly, steering is straight and all feels very good.

Here's the changes I see from the previous report:
Left front toe was .09 (green), now .14 (green)
Right front toe was .15 (red), now .08 (green)
Front total toe was .24 (green), now .21 (green)
Left rear toe was .09 (green), now .12 (green)
Right rear toe was .10 (green), now .06 (green)
Rear total toe was .19 (green), now .18 (green)
Front camber is not adjustable, little change in rear
Thrust went from 0.0 (green), now 0.05 (green)
Steering ahead unchanged at .06 ahead (still red)

I probably might should have asked them to get the left and right toe front and back to better match, but I'm no expert and have been told it's the total toe that matters and that number is down. Also all fields are green and the right front toe was reduced from .15 to .08., however now the left front toe is at .14. Unfortunately this new report doesn't show the margins as does the previous report. In hindsight I should have asked for that. What is surprising to me is how much these measurements changed from just two days ago to today, assuming the shop didn't make further adjustments. Interested in your opinion and if you think I should be satisfied with this or go to the audi dealership to get this dialed in properly.

First pic now, second before:




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[whts4]

My general comments are, while it is all "in the green" the difference on toe from side to side is far outside what I'd tolerate. For example, I had my other car aligned yesterday to my specs of 0.05 toe on all four corners: the results are front toe was set at 0.05 on both sides, rears were 0.06 and 0.05 respectively. That is a good alignment. Took them a total of 45 mins to do the alignment and cost $89.

This shop may be great for wheel/tire installs, but I'd find someone else to do my alignments, FWIW.

[whts4]

By the way, the factory alignment specs I have listed for the S4 are as follows:

Front and rear toe: min= 0.10, max= 0.25, total = 0.15 to 0.50

Note, I have mine currently set at - fronts at 0.12, rears at 0.00. This gIves very good handling w/minimal toe wear for a DD. If I was going to drive hwy most of the time and carry passengers, I'd run slightly more front toe (0.15 degrees both sides), and rear toe (0.10 degrees both sides).

[u2nelson]

In my experience excessive toe in causes outer tire wear, too much toe out causes inner wear. Do I have it backwards?

It’s the toe in plus camber that causes the inner shoulder to wear. Even with allot of camber if the toe is near zero the shoulder will not scuff and wear. As camber is desired for better handling and in the front not adjustable anyway, the toe needs to me less, .10 total is a good start, I know some run zero and have no issues.



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[whts4]

It’s the toe in plus camber that causes the inner shoulder to wear. Even with allot of camber if the toe is near zero the shoulder will not scuff and wear. As camber is desired for better handling and in the front not adjustable anyway, the toe needs to me less, .10 total is a good start, I know some run zero and have no issues.



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I guess I'd have it backwards...thx.