TSW Bathursts: 3 buckled wheels in as many months * DON'T BUY THEM *

[limeypride]

I think the title is self-explanatory--don't buy these wheels! To the folks that followed my lead or my recommendation: you have my sincere apologies for such a reversal--here's why...

In my opinion, these wheels are not strong enough--at least for WA roads nor perhaps for an RS7 in general. I'm expecting folks to say it's because I ran them with 295/25 MPSS tires and that the tirewall didn't offer sufficient protection from road hazards--acknowledged; that's possible. The more commonplace tire for 21 x 10.5 wheels is a 295/30/21--this is the very tire I ran on my 3 x F10 M5s and 2 x F06 M6 GCs (BMW OEM/stock wheels) across a 4-5 year timespan and I never once had to replace a wheel. OK, so the tirewall on the BMW wheels/tires is larger by 15mm but is that enough to explain 3 wheels buckling in as many months? I don't know. The stock tires on the stock Audi wheels are about 8mm taller and I've not heard of these wheels buckling either.

For me at least, the conclusion isn't difficult to reach using past experience with similar wheels/tires and comparing that experience to these.

The real kicker is I already bought a replacement TSW wheel (so 5 wheels in total) since my local tire center only identified one out-of-round wheel. When the vibration didn't go away after replacing that one, I took it to my local dealer who discovered the other two wheels were also buckled--enough is enough. I have the stock Audi wheels back on the car now and will decide what to do when the annoyance has dissipated.

That said and cognizant that I'm hardly helping my case with this post, I will offer the remaining 2 wheels for sale possibly with the 4 tires but I'm undecided for now whether to keep the tires for whatever aftermarket wheel I decide to go with next...

[p3u]

TSW aren't what they use to be IMHO. Went from being a quality product to the huffy of aftermarket wheels.

[gta7]

Hmm that's bad news! Sorry to hear this.

I will say this is my first car with 21" wheels last two has 20" and I am killing my passenger rear wheel on the RS7. Seems to get beat up just pulling in and out of driveways.

I'm. It driving any different and my last two cars had pristine wheels for years.

The RS7 21" wheels are chipped on the edge already.

I'm thinking I may try to find some 20" black optic wheels.

[flyfishing]

Can you post pics of buckling and/or chipping?




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[limeypride]

Can you post pics of buckling and/or chipping?

This isn't about chipping or aesthetic, peripheral damage--three of the wheels are bent; deformed; out-of-round and are causing the entire car to vibrate at speed. The damage has been confirmed by two independent shops--one tire shop and my local dealer (and, of course, my numb hands and driver's butt).

The 5 x TSW wheels were about $2,500 and 3 of them are deformed from nothing more than regular WA-state driving in a mere 3 months.

I don't have any pics and I suspect it'd be hard to capture in a pic since the damage is only really visible when the wheel is rotating. I don't have the wheels here--they're at the shop--but I'll take a look and see if anything's visible in a still shot. Although I'm not sure what value the pics would provide--out of round is far more easily felt than seen in a still; when rotating, it's blindingly apparent.

[cfd]

dude that blows. Was literally going to order a set tomorrow for the s4, in 19x9.5. Wonder if i runnig 275/35 would keep them from damage.

[flyfishing]

anyone else here have issues?

[-Eric-]

I know you're probably not going to want to hear this, because I know I wouldn't. But I've been hearing all sorts of folks complain about bent wheels on here and this message is for more users than just yourself. Three things: 1. You have to check your tire pressures frequently, if they even drop a little bit you will effectively end up with your wheel striking the ground at times. 2. You cannot be hitting pot holes with 21 inch wheels and sidewalls less than 3 inches. 3. If you do strike a pothole, that's not normal driving. Fair or unfair, if you hit a pothole that's not a manufacturing defect or a design flaw, it's driver error.

Beyond that, it is possible that TSW has a real problem. But it would be hard to say based on this experience alone. OEM Wheels, like what you had on your BMW, are typically pretty strong, even when cast, but they also weigh as much as a cast iron tub. In fact, some OEMs use wheels that are flow formed (Rotary Formed). I wouldn't be surprised if your BMW wheels were flow formed, but I don't know off hand.

[-Eric-]

At 19x9.5 and 275/35R19 it would be much harder for your wheels to be damaged in the same way.

[LittleDozer]

I've been running Bathurst since April without any issues in MN where bumpy roads are everywhere. No bends. 295/25 is really thin.


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[SlickMachine]

Damn that sucks Limey... Did you contact TSW? I know that's probably a dead end but worth a try.
Edit: I highly doubt that a guy driving an RS7 around who cares a lot about it's performance and appearance is making mistakes and hitting enough potholes to bend 3 wheels. Probability lies with weak wheels IMHO.
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[Dasquade]

My 50cent input...but sadely i kinda need to agree, as much as i like low profile and big rimes, sorry but it is only nice for the eyes.
Lets not forget it is a heavy car, depending on your tirepresure, 25 profile just isn't much....and you feel that when driving.
I have a feeling the bents aren't on the outside (face) of the rime but on the inside?
Been there with my previous car (a4 b8 on 20" 35 low profile tires, bent/broke 3 aswell, altough 2 from hitting a wood pole on dark road at 120km/h and one from deep puthole).
Not saying it might be indeed that TSW are using some weaker metal and only it's driver will know how hard he has been hitting stuff....but again, low profile tires really have not much forgiving in them.

*feel bad for OP, but sad to say this is a bit the price you pay for the combo (for what it is worth, read many complains about the stock performance 21" wheel aswell).

[Brooklyn]

25 profile? Come on amigo. The wheel isn't the problem here. You essentially have ZERO tire protection. I don't care what brand wheel you're running, with that tire it's just a matter of time.


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[limeypride]

Thanks for the sympathy, guys... this sucks.

To address a few questions:
1. the damage to the wheels is in on the outer-edge of at least one of them; I was too angry to look at the other two and instead only saw the wobble while rotating

2. a few replies in the thread suggest it's common to 21" wheels in general while some suggest the wheels are fine and it's the tires. On both counts and as I said in my opening post, I acknowledge that as a potential cause but it's absolutely not what I believe to be responsible.

Let me re-iterate the basis for my opinion: I have first-hand experience across 5 x BMW M-cars--each with 21" factory wheels--over the course of ~5 years and well over 100,000 miles driving the exact same routes in the exact same conditions and not one of those wheels ever buckled. Their tires were 295/30s and perhaps that 1.5cm tirewall increase is enough. The stock Audi 275 rims wear 275/30s--an 8mm only increase--and nobody's reporting problems there either (that I know of).

It's doubtful I'll ever know the the root-cause but I'll never buy TSW wheels again since the evidence I have is more than sufficient for me to consider that an unnecessary risk.

So, anybody want 2 nearly-new perfect-condition TSW Bathursts @21" x 10.5? // my optimism knows no bounds

- - - Updated - - -

25 profile? Come on amigo. The wheel isn't the problem here. You essentially have ZERO tire protection. I don't care what brand wheel you're running, with that tire it's just a matter of time.


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See my reply above.

[bonafyd]

No shade to owners but TSW wheels have always been on the lower quality end of the spectrum.
Granted things happen and tires play a part but from trucks on down their wheels tend to have issues.

[limeypride]

No shade to owners but TSW wheels have always been on the lower quality end of the spectrum.
Granted things happen and tires play a part but from trucks on down their wheels tend to have issues.

If this is indeed the case, that's something I wish I'd known up front.

What aftermarket brands do you guys recommend?

[limeypride]

Damn that sucks Limey... Did you contact TSW? I know that's probably a dead end but worth a try.
Edit: I highly doubt that a guy driving an RS7 around who cares a lot about it's performance and appearance is making mistakes and hitting enough potholes to bend 3 wheels. Probability lies with weak wheels IMHO.
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Thanks.

I've reached out to pursue this path but I'm under no illusions that I'll get anywhere useful with it... but, as you say, it's worth a shot.

[IowaRS7]

The fact that you have several wheels with the same issue would lead me to think the TSW wheels are the culprit here. As you noted, the 25 profile is not uncommon on these forums and those Michelin tires are very beefy. Can you explain how this came on? Where they ok when originally installed then gradually became worse or did you suddenly notice vibration in the steering wheel or some other factor? Just wondering so others can learn what to look for as sometimes this type of situation can lead people on a wild goose chase. Would be interesting to know the quality of the wheels out of the box to know if you had a batch that was defective to start with?

[Cris_OO7]

Look for fully forged wheels not cast. Our cars are heavy and the low profile tires and bad roads do not help.


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[CanuckRS]

That's a shame, I've been running them longer than you without issue. Sad!

[limeypride]

I know you're probably not going to want to hear this, because I know I wouldn't.

I'm open to feedback even if I don't like it.

Three things: 1. You have to check your tire pressures frequently, if they even drop a little bit you will effectively end up with your wheel striking the ground at times.

I monitor tire pressure almost religiously (a tad close to OCD I'd say) and I agree, it's a big factor.

2. You cannot be hitting pot holes with 21 inch wheels and sidewalls less than 3 inches.

The difference between the number you cite (I'd love to know where you're getting that from by the way) and the tirewall of my 295/25s is 2.45mm. I completely agree with the principle that a larger tirewall protects the wheel--that's a given. But I'm not sure 2.45mm is going to make a crap of difference. Likewise, it's possible one wheel is inherently stronger than another under similar/same conditions of size, tires, etc. This is where my conclusion has landed.

3. If you do strike a pothole, that's not normal driving. Fair or unfair, if you hit a pothole that's not a manufacturing defect or a design flaw, it's driver error.

I can't even come close to agreeing with you or even acknowledging the difference of opinion on this one--it makes no sense at all. If I'm doing 70 on a freeway in less-than-optimal conditions (a regular occurrence everywhere and most certainly in WA), of course I can hit a pothole... and so could you. Roads form potholes--that's just a fact of life. Driver's hit those potholes--that's another fact of life. You could argue that's the driver's fault but there's no reasonable/acceptable change in driver-behavior that would eliminate that potential rendering the comment moot. I certainly avoid many potholes but avoiding them all is beyond the realm of possibility (at least without a bit of assistance from computer-controlled driver-aids). To the extent possible, manufacturers need to make reasonable efforts to accommodate this fact of life.

[limeypride]

That's a shame, I've been running them longer than you without issue. Sad!

Ack. Sucks, I loved the look of the wheels.

[gta7]

I can't even come close to agreeing with you or even acknowledging the difference of opinion on this one--it makes no sense at all. If I'm doing 70 on a freeway in less-than-optimal conditions (a regular occurrence everywhere and most certainly in WA), of course I can hit a pothole... and so could you. Roads form potholes--that's just a fact of life. Driver's hit those potholes--that's another fact of life. You could argue that's the driver's fault but there's no reasonable/acceptable change in driver-behavior that would eliminate that potential rendering the comment moot. I certainly avoid many potholes but avoiding them all is beyond the realm of possibility (at least without a bit of assistance from computer-controlled driver-aids). To the extent possible, manufacturers need to make reasonable efforts to accommodate this fact of life.

I couldn't agree more to imply that one should be able to avoid every single pothole on the road is ridiculous.

One should pay attention and avoid them as much as possible but in my area come winter which is just rain that is 100% impossible.

Now I choose to daily an RS7 with 21" rims; I get that an SUV with high sidewalks might be able to better handle potholes.

[Thisisatest]

Ok so I'm fairly new here but from a guy who's been sponsored and bought a lot of wheels in the last 25 years you get what you pay for. A cast wheel vs a forged wheel is a huge diff in strength. When I saw you said you paid 2500 for 5 I figured you expected to replace here and there. My last set on my 5200 pound Srt jeep retail at 2500 each. However they are 23 pounds each and tuv rated for strength. Guaranteed not to bend. That being said there's always a middle ground. I know some guys that have paid half what mine retail for and never had issues. You just need to talk to the manufacturer and see what they suggest for the weight of the car and what tire you want to run.

I'm currently debating between a new rs7 and a tesla but I've already started talking to Vossen(my current wheel manufacturer) and HRE who are local to me. I'm hoping my next set doesn't have to be 10 grand and I can use one of their middle lines but if I'm told the cars to heavy and the profile is to small and I should go big well sometimes it hurts but we pay to play.

Man I know you love your car and take care of it so my 2 cents is talk to Vossen or HRE(both sold by TAG who sponser this section)and grab some of their stronger wheels and hopefully never have this issue again! Good luck man!

[bonafyd]

Fully forged wheels, multi piece wheels are where it's at. they cost more but i'm a firm believer in you get what you pay for.
the upside to multi piece wheels are if it is "Tire/Driver Error" you can change the lip, barrel or face and keep it moving..

[limeypride]

Everything you say is fair (assuming the assertion that TSW manufacture lower quality wheels... which, of course, I'm more than open to believing). What it probably comes down to is naivety on my part--I've never bought aftermarket/non-OEM wheels before because all of my beemers came with wheel+tire combos that I liked and were appropriate for the car's power output. The stock 275s on the RS7 aren't sufficient for stock power let alone tuned.

Lesson learned I guess and I'll start looking for alternatives. I've heard a lot about HRE and Vossen but didn't find a wheel I liked; I'll take another look. That said, I have to label $2300 a wheel as daylight robbery--OEM highly regarded BMW wheels that I've ran for years are far less than that. Were they diamond-studded?

[Thisisatest]

Nope mine are actually really simple on the jeep but it's weight and strength that end up driving the price up. Currently mine weigh in at 23.2 for the 22x10.5 and 23.6 for the 22x11 vs the stocks at almost 50 each. All that weight before rubber. But my 0-60 times dropped from consistent 4.6 to 4.2s with a 22 vs the stock 20. I think some guys here have found adverse side effects of lighter wheels though as the ended up loosing some traction.

Also I have a set of the lower model vossens on my 12 a6 and have yet to have an issue. They are 20x9 with 275/35 so a decent sidewall...

[limeypride]

BTW: have you driven the Tesla? They're fast--I think it's fair to say that's established--but there is zero driver engagement and, to my eye at least, the interior is sparse and lacks a quality feel. I took a P100D for a day to help me decide and if the shortlist of choices comprised say a 7-series, S8 and Tesla, I'd probably get the Tesla but if it's between say an M6, an RS7 and other like-vehicles, then the Tesla doesn't fit the lineup.

[-Eric-]

Like I said, I wouldn't want to hear it either. I'm not immune to making mistakes. I try to avoid potholes, and 98% of the time I do so successfully. but stuff happens.On the other hand, if the conditions are sub-optimal you could ask why you're going 70mph? I guess you could blame some of it on the local government if they're not taking care of the roads. In which case, you need to elect new leaders. LOL Or maybe you need 19s with larger sidewalls? It very well could be that TSW has a problem, but that's not necessarily guaranteed. All I'm saying is you that could have perfectly good wheels and end up in the same situation.

[-Eric-]

I'm not suggesting that you have some kind of responsibility to avoid all potholes, but when you hit one and it does damage, it's not the wheel manufacturers fault. You could blame the government. If you live in an area with really bad roads, 21inchers might not be a good idea.

and again, this is not directed at one person. I've seen alot of these posts about this wheel or that wheel. I ended up with BBS RX-Rs 20x9.5 (flow formed) because I trust them to be about as strong as you can get for the price. I wanted to go with 21s, but I just didn't think it would be safe.

[limeypride]

Yes.

Me, too.

Whatever--70mph... jeez; you're merely supporting your earlier wording choice.

I do blame the government to some extent but weather is a factor, too.

I can't vote; I'm a limey.

19s are not in my future nor are tirewalls beyond 30s.

If these wheels are perfectly good, why did 3 of them buckle when 5 other cars wearing BMW wheels and the same tires that were collectively driven well over 100,000 miles over the same roads never experience a single hiccup.

[Omnipotent]

Hey, no offense... but there is obviously some truth to the old adage... "you get what you pay for!"

[limeypride]

The fact that you have several wheels with the same issue would lead me to think the TSW wheels are the culprit here. As you noted, the 25 profile is not uncommon on these forums and those Michelin tires are very beefy. Can you explain how this came on? Where they ok when originally installed then gradually became worse or did you suddenly notice vibration in the steering wheel or some other factor? Just wondering so others can learn what to look for as sometimes this type of situation can lead people on a wild goose chase. Would be interesting to know the quality of the wheels out of the box to know if you had a batch that was defective to start with?

When first installed: the wheels+tires made an immediate difference lowering my 0-60 times consistently entirely eliminating AWD-wheelspin. I ran many launches after that with friends (some of whom own Teslas) since it's great fun--again, consistent launches between 2.58 and 2.70 seconds. Once I'd detected the wobble, I launched again and was substantially slower.

My best guess as to the circumstances that caused the buckling: I recall having the whole family in the car and my wife and I wincing as we crossed a freeway bridge--the bump appeared to be from the join between the road and the bridge. I checked tire pressure a few times directly afterwards since I feared a puncture from the impact but tire pressure remained constant. The vibration is most noticeable at 70 and I'd guess I felt it a few days later. I adjusted tire pressures manually (added a few psi at each corner) to see if that affected it--no difference. I took it in and we found one buckled wheel. Stupidly, I didn't force them to check every other wheel (hindsight and all that) and simply obtained another one but, once fitted, the vibration remained. That's when I took her to my local shop and we raised her fully, put her in drive and sped up--the 2 remaining wobbling-wheels were blindly apparent... that's when I got annoyed and asked my guys to take them all off and put my stock wheels back on. The wobble is, of course, gone and my launches are back to normal.

[SlickMachine]

Hey, no offense... but there is obviously some truth to the old adage... "you get what you pay for!"

Yeah I have to respectfully disagree in this case, and I live by that adage.
The company sells wheels, which are meant to have tires mounted on them and then bolted to your car and driven on. It's a performance sedan, not a short course race truck and given the caliber of the car i won't assume the owner would drive over obstacles that aren't within normal driving conditions. TSW should make this assumption also.
A quick read over TSW website and all their marketing gimmicks regarding strength, rotary forging yadda yadda, why would anyone accept bent wheels in this situation in this short amount of ownership? The Fitment guide on their website offers exactly this wheel (21x10.5) on an S7, although they don't offer an RS7 choice the cars weigh essentially the same. If strength is an issue in this size, then they should have removed it from their fitment guide and only offered a 9.5" or whatever. It's not realistic to think a guy driving an RS7 is taking potholes to the teeth on his new wheels.
I buy into the 'you get what you pay for' applying to finish quality, options and weight but overall structural integrity failing on a daily driver, this fast, on 3 wheels- absolutely not.

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[limeypride]

Hey, no offense... but there is obviously some truth to the old adage... "you get what you pay for!"

True, true. Sadly, I didn't realize $500 / wheel was considered "cheap". Even in light of everything said here, it still doesn't seem that cheap. Sure, there are super-expensive wheels out there but there are also much cheaper ones and known OEM wheels for a similar or lesser price. For example, I can get a set of 4 new BMW OEM M-performance superlight wheels (say for the M5 or M6) for about the same as the TSW--these are the same wheels that came fitted as stock on my previous cars... so I'm not convinced the adage applies here but I guess "cheap" is somewhat subjective.

[CanuckRS]

When first installed: the wheels+tires made an immediate difference lowering my 0-60 times consistently entirely eliminating AWD-wheelspin. I ran many launches after that with friends (some of whom own Teslas) since it's great fun--again, consistent launches between 2.58 and 2.70 seconds. Once I'd detected the wobble, I launched again and was substantially slower.

My best guess as to the circumstances that caused the buckling: I recall having the whole family in the car and my wife and I wincing as we crossed a freeway bridge--the bump appeared to be from the join between the road and the bridge. I checked tire pressure a few times directly afterwards since I feared a puncture from the impact but tire pressure remained constant. The vibration is most noticeable at 70 and I'd guess I felt it a few days later. I adjusted tire pressures manually (added a few psi at each corner) to see if that affected it--no difference. I took it in and we found one buckled wheel. Stupidly, I didn't force them to check every other wheel (hindsight and all that) and simply obtained another one but, once fitted, the vibration remained. That's when I took her to my local shop and we raised her fully, put her in drive and sped up--the 2 remaining wobbling-wheels were blindly apparent... that's when I got annoyed and asked my guys to take them all off and put my stock wheels back on. The wobble is, of course, gone and my launches are back to normal.

that must have been one doozy of a bump in the road to bend 3 rims. i've hit my share of potholes and bumps this year but nary an issue with the rims. seems like just bad luck imo. what's next?

[limeypride]

that must have been one doozy of a bump in the road to bend 3 rims. i've hit my share of potholes and bumps this year but nary an issue with the rims. seems like just bad luck imo. what's next?

It could be bad luck. But can you honestly say, if in my shoes with my experience of these wheels (not your experience) that you'd merrily go and buy two more making of total of 7 wheels purchased after only 3-months of ownership. It's rhetorical, you don't have to answer but feel free. My point is, I'm absolutely not taking that risk based on all the history I have with other wheels and tires. Now if TSW said, "here, have 2 more wheels for free"--I'd give that a shot since I'm no more out-of-pocket than I am already but I'd rather invest $4,000 on different wheels than potentially throw yet more money at these.

[CanuckRS]

I say let's test it out, get the family back in the vehicle and out on those stock rims and take a run at that bump again. Let me know how it goes. :)

But seriously, if it was a huge impact I would consider them again for sure. There is no evidence another rim would fare any better in that size. I get where you're coming from but I think it's a bit premature to blame the rims here.

afaik you're the only person who's had this problem with this rim in this size. bueller? anyone else?

if this was a common problem and the rims were so poor, i think there would be some more people out here complaining.

likely the main issue here is that you hit a road/bridge transition piece of metal and your rubber isn't all that thick. with a 25 aspect ratio, i would be surprised if even the stock rims would have survived that big of an impact. just my 0.02 :)

so what's next?

It could be bad luck. But can you honestly say, if in my shoes with my experience of these wheels (not your experience) that you'd merrily go and buy two more making of total of 7 wheels purchased after only 3-months of ownership. It's rhetorical, you don't have to answer but feel free. My point is, I'm absolutely not taking that risk based on all the history I have with other wheels and tires. Now if TSW said, "here, have 2 more wheels for free"--I'd give that a shot since I'm no more out-of-pocket than I am already but I'd rather invest $4,000 on different wheels than potentially throw yet more money at these.

[limeypride]

I say let's test it out, get the family back in the vehicle and out on those stock rims and take a run at that bump again. Let me know how it goes. :)

LMAO--I'd be happy to... in your car. C'mon, you're not that far away.

But seriously, if it was a huge impact I would consider them again for sure. There is no evidence another rim would fare any better in that size. I get where you're coming from but I think it's a bit premature to blame the rims here.

If you say so. We're about a light-year apart on this one.

afaik you're the only person who's had this problem with this rim in this size. bueller? anyone else?

It's easy to be blase when you're observing the problem from afar (or perhaps not that geographially far, I don't know). I asked you to put yourself in my shoes--you didn't answer in that context. So would you? Would you buy another two wheels in my position?

if this was a common problem and the rims were so poor, i think there would be some more people out here complaining.

Tough to argue. But, for me, my own first-hand experience is sufficient at this point--I don't need to substantiate it with additional instances.

likely the main issue here is that you hit a road/bridge transition piece of metal and your rubber isn't all that thick. with a 25 aspect ratio, i would be surprised if even the stock rims would have survived that big of an impact. just my 0.02 :)

Nod--also reasonable. But it's not enough to affect my decision.

so what's next?

Good question. Dunno; still pondering. I already bought some graphite wheel spray to hold me over while I think this through (my own stock RS7 Performance wheels are too silver for my taste).

[Thisisatest]

BTW: have you driven the Tesla? They're fast--I think it's fair to say that's established--but there is zero driver engagement and, to my eye at least, the interior is sparse and lacks a quality feel. I took a P100D for a day to help me decide and if the shortlist of choices comprised say a 7-series, S8 and Tesla, I'd probably get the Tesla but if it's between say an M6, an RS7 and other like-vehicles, then the Tesla doesn't fit the lineup.

So far I've driven the tesla and the s and rs 7s. I agree it's much less fit and finish for sure but for me my drive is 95% under 30 mph due to traffic, my work pays for charging, and they are offering me 25k off and still get another 7500 from federal...makes it like a 30k swing. That being said I still haven't bought either cause I can't make a decision due to all the complaints about fit and finish and my concern that with tesla always trying to be bleeding edge you are just buy a car that's already out of date 6 months later. At least the audis hold up. Hell my 12s still running great but it only has 42k on the ticker.

First world problems ;)