Why do Audis depreciate so quickly???

[Kyokio]

Why do Audi's lose their value so quickly? I mean a 2005 Audi S4 w/ 10k miles is worth only $43k!! Damn that's terrible.

When I compared it to a M3 w/ the same options and mileage.. the M3 was worth $51k.

Someone please enlighten me. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

[dietrichls]

Audi's don't have anywhere near the cachet in this country that BMW and Mercedes have. They're cheaper at the outset. Audi has a terrible reputation as far as reliability and customer service (think the 80s here), but it has gotten much better recently.

[akademiks120]

seriously...this is what has been preventing me from getting a car already. But im still set on getting an audi, because i do believe that the newer models will not live up to the name audi once had before. All the mechanics i know tell me that audi's arent a great idea, and that they are just too costly after the warranty is up. I asked this before, and it seems like the b6'ers on AZ dont seem to have all the hassle and stress. well, good luck to audi, and I hope they get the reputation that they now deserve.

[whoneedsanm3]

Umm, my S4 (tip) has depreciated almost exactly as much as an M3(smg) would have in the same period. As a 2004, it has depreciated a little less than 5% per year. My mother's 2004 S4 cabriolet, which was just totaled out in an insurance settlement, was valued at 51K (with an original price of 56K), also about 5% per year. M3's lose about 4% per year, or not much less than the S4.

Part of the problem is that stealerships will charge 50-52K for a used M3 worth 45-47K, and people pay it. Anyone shelling out 51K for a non-competition package car is making a mistake. I can find you a MUCH better deal.

Finally, everyone forgets that M3's in 2004 and 2005 were rather more expensive than S4's. My S4 is a tip with everything but Nav, and was 50K with TT&L, an M3 would have been at least 5K more, more likely 7K. There is the biggest part of the difference.

[SteveMondragon]

Also wait until the new M3 comes out. Then you'll see the E46 M3s now depreciate even more.

From my experience (mostly with MB and no Audi), most German cars are expensive but soon begin to depreciate fast after a couple of years in the US. If you plan on always upgrading to a 'newer' German car, your best bet is to either lease or to buy and trade within a year or so before your car starts to depreciate.

[Kyokio]

Thanks for all the info guys.. u put my mind a little more at ease about purchasing an Audi.

[Nelson_A4S-line]

Your also talking about an S4 - top spec models always loose a larger chunk of their value.

[Kyokio]

Originally posted by Nelson_A4S-line
Your also talking about an S4 - top spec models always loose a larger chunk of their value.

Yes but they don't usually drop $10k in value within one year.. that was my concern about buying an S4

[Nelson_A4S-line]

Originally posted by Kyokio
Yes but they don't usually drop $10k in value within one year.. that was my concern about buying an S4

UK ones definately do, if not a bit more

I'd always recommened buying en Ex-demo/nearly new S4 anyway as someone else has already lost the money for you. My A4 S-line lost £6k of its value after only two months; which I didn't pay for

[Kyokio]

Originally posted by Nelson_A4S-line
UK ones definately do, if not a bit more

I'd always recommened buying en Ex-demo/nearly new S4 anyway as someone else has already lost the money for you. My A4 S-line lost £6k of its value after only two months; which I didn't pay for

Lolz.. I wish I'd thought of that earlier.

[Howard Hughes]

What about the older S4's? I have seen 2002's going in the 20's with low miles....The car is barely 4 years old and has dropped 20+ thousand dollars? from it's original sticker price of 40 something.. Now that sucks....

[Jedi-Jurist]

I bought mine at 5 months old with 6k miles for about $15k less than original sticker and gas guzzler tax. Definitely let someone else take the depreciation hit.

[0302]

Originally posted by Howard Hughes
What about the older S4's? I have seen 2002's going in the 20's with low miles....The car is barely 4 years old and has dropped 20+ thousand dollars? from it's original sticker price of 40 something.. Now that sucks....

This always happens when a New body style comes out and technically the 02s are now 2 styles old.

[gIzzE]

And give it another 12-18 months and the B6's will be 2 models old.

In the UK, as Nelson said, you would buy a new S4 for $70k with a couple of options and tax, and after 3 years and 40k miles you would get around $43k back on it.

You can buy a 12 month old car for about $52k which is an $18,000 loss in a year!

[rocket_S4]

The main reason is there are 2005, 2005.5 and 2006 all in one year, that's why.

If you have an 06, you should be in a better shape.

There are 2 new 2005.5 S4 at the dealer that they're tyring to see it at $9000 off the sticker.

[Kyokio]

Will 2007 models be any different than the 2006 models?

[rocket_S4]

2007 will be V8 FSI engine with 350 hp 325 lb-ft.

http://www.fourtitude.com/news/publi...cle_1898.shtml

[Qtip]

There are many reasons. First of all, prior to 1975 Audi enjoyed as much 'clout' here as M-Benz or BMW. Then 60 minutes aired an episode on the infamous unintended acceleration fiasco. A woman killed her small child in her garage and blamed it on Audi. Most people don't know that she told the police that she hit the gas instead of the brake accidentally. Well, the truth doesn't help ratings very much so, 60 minutes jumped on the gravy train. They have done similar to others since.

Audi responded by investigating the accusation thoroughly. So did Germany and another country that I can't recall right now. I think it was Japan. No one could even recreate a situation that caused the car to respond that way. Remember this before all of the computers on cars that we have now.

Audi sales plummeted as fear levels rose in the U.S. Obviously, no one wanted Audi's not even dealers on trade-in. This is what caused Audi's to have such a low resale value. It has nothing at all to do with their quality, reliability, etc. In fact, Audi's have enjoyed the same or better fit and finish, quality and reliability as their German counterparts for years.

Audi used car managers don't know this information. There job is to buy as cheap as possible and to sell as high as possible. When the public begins to pay more for pre-owned Audi's then the dealer's will put more in the trade-ins and the resale will automatically improve. So get out your wallets!

Audi's are recognized world wide as a premium automobile. They are the choice of many heads-of-state, diplomats, ceo's, etc. I understand that Germany's chancellor prefers Audi, and that recently the royal fleet of Jaguars in England was replaced with Audi's. Many of my former German customers (when I sold Audi's from 1999-2002) have told me that M-Benz are mostly recognized as taxi's in Germany. Those are not my words, so don't anybody jump on me for it.

Since, the late 80's I have enjoyed owning Audi's (4) with no regrets. I'm sure they have problems as other manufacturers do (not mine) but certainly, they have all the engineering to make them as advanced as anyone would expect. Also, the more technology you have, the greater the potential for error. It goes hand in hand. The people that say "I paid umpteen million dollars for this car, it shouldn't have any problems!" Those are the words of an idiot as far as I'm concerned. The only man-made thing I've owned that's never had a problem was the floor of my home. If you live in California, never mind.

As for buying them, here's the deal. If you buy new cars every 1-4 years, lease it. Forget about who has the cheapest rates, get the car you want. If you prefer owning the car some day with no payments for 5-10 years, buy it. If you can't afford the price of a new one, get a certified pre-owned about 3 years old and save 50% of hte original purchase price. This is what I've always done.

One last thing, if you get a four cylinder or the VR6 engine (VW now sells an 8 and a 12), the VW dealer will probably save you some money on maintenance after the warranty period.

[ckandes1]

hmm.. well that just about settles it i guess!

[MaximusS4]

I was about to trade in my 05.5 with 5200 miles for the first Cayman to be delivered in Florida (pick up on the 14th of Jan) and they would only give me 35 for my car. Bye bye cayman, I'm sticking with the S for the long run it appears now...

[Qtip]

So, Maximus are you saying that you're keeping your car now because of the low resale value, or because you understand the dealer mentality and the used car market for Audi?

I'm not suggesting that you lose a lot of money trading in your car but, if you really want the Cayman why not retail your car and then buy the Cayman? If the dealer is offering you 35, that sounds like 40-45 retail.

Like I said, it is not the cars fault, or Audi's fault. But, turn the shoes around, what if you were buying your car. What would you want the dealer to discount that 45 down to before you would buy it? So, there you have it. People (not talking about you Max)always want the dealer to give them full price for their car but think they are getting screwed when the dealer asks for full price. Wicked, huh?

[Jliao]

While we're on this note.

So has Audi realiblity been the same from before? I'm planing on buying the car and I want a car that's reliable and not a car that will start giving me problems when warranty is up.

[0302]

Originally posted by Jliao
While we're on this note.

So has Audi realiblity been the same from before? I'm planing on buying the car and I want a car that's reliable and not a car that will start giving me problems when warranty is up.

Murphy's law states that all cars will give you fits right after the warranty is up

[Stoodo]

Originally posted by MaximusS4
I was about to trade in my 05.5 with 5200 miles for the first Cayman to be delivered in Florida (pick up on the 14th of Jan) and they would only give me 35 for my car. Bye bye cayman, I'm sticking with the S for the long run it appears now...

Since every Porsche dealer has a Cayman, how do you know you would have been first? :)

[dxben]

Originally posted by rocket_S4
The main reason is there are 2005, 2005.5 and 2006 all in one year, that's why.

If you have an 06, you should be in a better shape.

There are 2 new 2005.5 S4 at the dealer that they're tyring to see it at $9000 off the sticker.

That seems like a bit of speculation to me. A 2005.5 and a 2006 have no visible difference and if they are tip have the same 50/50 front/rear diff. There are some additional options but those don't effect depreciation.

[hadokenny]

Originally posted by dietrichls
Audi's don't have anywhere near the cachet in this country that BMW and Mercedes have. They're cheaper at the outset. Audi has a terrible reputation as far as reliability and customer service (think the 80s here), but it has gotten much better recently.

It hasnt got better. Audi reliabilty and customer service still suck ass. Thats why our resale values are so low.

[Qtip]

Originally posted by hadokenny
It hasnt got better. Audi reliabilty and customer service still suck ass. Thats why our resale values are so low.

These are the kind of ridiculous comments that make me wonder how anyone whose graduated from gradeschool can make.

Since 1996, Audi has been breaking sales records not only in the U.S., but worldwide. I explained in a lengthy response why Audi resale values are so low. Not only is the information factual, it is also common sense.

It amazes me how an individual can think that their car and sales/service experience out of over 80,000 determines the experiences and values of the other 79,999+ others.

Grow up, or buy something else.

As I mentioned, I sold Audi's for 5 years. My dealership had the service personnel inside the sales building. In 5 years I never heard an irate customer complain about their car, its resale value,or their service experience. Did they exist, absolutely. I even met a couple of people who had a lemon. Guess what, they bought another Audi. Reason being, they were intelligent enough to know that it can't happen to every vehicle.

The ones who did all the complaining probably traded their cars for a Lexus or something. That's what you do when you're not happy with a certain product.

I know these cars can have issues. I love reading about the people who post on how they solved it. That way, I and others can benefit from their experiences.

Cry babies, please go find a 1972 VW bug. You'll never have another problem.

[Ryan S.]

Originally posted by Stoodo
Since every Porsche dealer has a Cayman, how do you know you would have been first? :)

cause the salesman told him so...

[Blue04]

Originally posted by Kyokio
Yes but they don't usually drop $10k in value within one year.. that was my concern about buying an S4

like someone else said, buy one used... i bought mine a little over a year old and saved a good amount, plus they add 2 years to the warranty so you get a better warranty than new

[Kyokio]

Originally posted by Blue04
like someone else said, buy one used... i bought mine a little over a year old and saved a good amount, plus they add 2 years to the warranty so you get a better warranty than new

I would have if there was one w/ everything I was looking for.

[Qtip]

Originally posted by Kyokio
I would have if there was one w/ everything I was looking for.

There are many sources to find the car you're looking for. You've got 266 Audi dealers nation wide; you've got Audizine, Audiworld, Audilife, Fourtitude, Shokan, ebay, etc. Your car is out there. You'll find it.

[Kyokio]

Originally posted by Qtip
There are many sources to find the car you're looking for. You've got 266 Audi dealers nation wide; you've got Audizine, Audiworld, Audilife, Fourtitude, Shokan, ebay, etc. Your car is out there. You'll find it.

*Sigh*.. already paid for the car. Plus, I'm not too keen on buying used, regardless if its dealer certified or not. Thanks anyways~

[dietrichls]

Originally posted by Qtip


Audi responded by investigating the accusation thoroughly. So did Germany and another country that I can't recall right now. I think it was Japan. No one could even recreate a situation that caused the car to respond that way. Remember this before all of the computers on cars that we have now.

Audi did investigate. And it more than likely was driver error. The problem was that Audi's PR campaign was possibly the worst ever. Audi basically suggested that American's don't know how to drive, and if we'd just learn how to drive a proper European car, there wouldn't be any problems.

Now, I'm not saying that there isn't truth to the statement. I think the same thing. But I'm not going to adopt that as my mantra if I'm trying to sell cars. Audi slit their own throats, and they still haven't recovered.

Also, why do you think every Audi new car salesman has nothing but quality/reliabilty rankings littering their desk. Have Audi's gotten better lately? Of course. But the salesman wouldn't need the literature on quality if the customers didn't demand it. The public still doesn't trust Audi, which is why Audi has to sell itself the way it does.

[Qtip]

Originally posted by dietrichls
Audi did investigate. And it more than likely was driver error. The problem was that Audi's PR campaign was possibly the worst ever. Audi basically suggested that American's don't know how to drive, and if we'd just learn how to drive a proper European car, there wouldn't be any problems.

Now, I'm not saying that there isn't truth to the statement. I think the same thing. But I'm not going to adopt that as my mantra if I'm trying to sell cars. Audi slit their own throats, and they still haven't recovered.

Also, why do you think every Audi new car salesman has nothing but quality/reliabilty rankings littering their desk. Have Audi's gotten better lately? Of course. But the salesman wouldn't need the literature on quality if the customers didn't demand it. The public still doesn't trust Audi, which is why Audi has to sell itself the way it does.

I think we're in agreement, right? A couple points, though. Audi is not the only company to botch their advertising. Think Infiniti. Lexus and Infiniti launched at exactly the same time. I have always preferred Infiniti to Lexus but, Infiniti has never touched Lexus in sales. There really is no quality/reliability issue to separate them. It was simply subpar advertising, and to use your words, they (Infiniti) still haven't recovered.

As for Audi's apparent arrogance in their response, unfortunately this comes with luxury car sales. Here's what I mean; I started my sales career with Nissan back in the late 80's. Until 1999 win I changed to Audi, I had been taught to beg and plead for business.

When I got to Audi, I was amazed at how quickly they would let a customer walk. Over time I learned that this was the way it was done at BMW, MB, etc. The idea is to let the customer know that you're on the same level that they are. That you won't beg them or go into a discounting frenzy like the 'lower level' cars. You have to sell from a position of strength or you won't be respected. People will sell you out for 50 bucks. Believe me, I know.

That's not to say that you don't run into true enthusiasts. With them, you can let your guard down and enjoy the transaction.

I'm no longer in the car business but, I find that the principle remains. If you seem weak in the sales game, you probably won't get the sale.

Every now and then I would answer questions about the reliability issue and show those reports you mentioned. But, for the most part, if someone questioned the quality of the car, I would say something like, well, you can always buy a Toyota like 400,000 other people THIS YEAR!

[dietrichls]

^^^^^^^^^^ Yup. I think we agree. Audi's customer relationship/marketing skills were subpar back in the day, and they are really only now starting to recover. Unfortunately, the American consumer has a very long memory.

[Qtip]

Originally posted by dietrichls
^^^^^^^^^^ Yup. I think we agree. Audi's customer relationship/marketing skills were subpar back in the day, and they are really only now starting to recover. Unfortunately, the American consumer has a very long memory.

Dietrich, I don't think people's memory has anything to do with it. The starter of the thread asked why the resale value was so low. People really don't know why. You and I are the only ones apparently who are aware of the 60 minutes episode back in 1980. I actually saw the program.

If you want to go by the memory aspect, we would have no Japanese cars at all, let alone them being the highest volume of cars sold in America.

No, it's still the media. Consumers Reports and other publications that have you thinking there's something wrong with the cars. By the way, did you know that the JD Powers Survey doesn't differentiate from a loose cup holder or blown enigine in their initial quality ratings. They're both regarded as a problem/fault/repair.

Final trivia, In 1997 when the former head of automobile testing retired after 30 years with Consumers Reports, guess what car he purchased...Audi A4!

I've got the magazine to prove it.

I hope Audi never sells like BMW and MB, that way I'll always have something unique from everyone else. Let the sheep follow the shepherd, I'd rather be the wolf.

[hadokenny]

Originally posted by Qtip
These are the kind of ridiculous comments that make me wonder how anyone whose graduated from gradeschool can make.

Since 1996, Audi has been breaking sales records not only in the U.S., but worldwide. I explained in a lengthy response why Audi resale values are so low. Not only is the information factual, it is also common sense.

It amazes me how an individual can think that their car and sales/service experience out of over 80,000 determines the experiences and values of the other 79,999+ others.

Grow up, or buy something else.

As I mentioned, I sold Audi's for 5 years. My dealership had the service personnel inside the sales building. In 5 years I never heard an irate customer complain about their car, its resale value,or their service experience. Did they exist, absolutely. I even met a couple of people who had a lemon. Guess what, they bought another Audi. Reason being, they were intelligent enough to know that it can't happen to every vehicle.

The ones who did all the complaining probably traded their cars for a Lexus or something. That's what you do when you're not happy with a certain product.

I know these cars can have issues. I love reading about the people who post on how they solved it. That way, I and others can benefit from their experiences.

Cry babies, please go find a 1972 VW bug. You'll never have another problem.

Right. We all know car sales are the most honest people on earth! FYI, I bought my audis used. Thats the only way its worth getting one. I took my Audi to dealer twice and I swear I will never take it there again. The mechanics always seem to find a way to mess up whenever I bring my car in. One time they forget to plug my MAF back in, another time they disconnected a hose without reconnecting it back. I am not talking out of my ass here. These are facts.

[Qtip]

Originally posted by hadokenny
Right. We all know car sales are the most honest people on earth! FYI, I bought my audis used. Thats the only way its worth getting one. I took my Audi to dealer twice and I swear I will never take it there again. The mechanics always seem to find a way to mess up whenever I bring my car in. One time they forget to plug my MAF back in, another time they disconnected a hose without reconnecting it back. I am not talking out of my ass here. These are facts.

There, there son. It'll be alright. Here's the number of someone who wants to sell their bug. BR549

[Audi convert]

1972 VW bug no problems? You won't believe this but that was my first car and I still own it! My dad and I restored it when I was 15 and it had it's share of problems! Of coarse I'll admit the fact that he and I rewired the whole thing may have had a lot to do with it!
I'm wondering if the resale issue is a supply and demand one? I don't know but if we assume the demand for the cars is equal then if less M3's were made we would expect them to retain a higher price. Does anyone have the S4/M3 import figures? I know the Ultrasport has retained its value due to a low supply compounded by high demand (ie a following). This may all be crap but I'm trying to believe those econ coarses I took back in college were good for something!

[jimmyrecluse]

Originally posted by Kyokio
Yes but they don't usually drop $10k in value within one year.. that was my concern about buying an S4

they drop fast then level out