2019 Audi S6 and S7: Engines

[Frenetic]

There are reports that the new S6 and S7's might dispense with the V8 and instead go with the V6 currently found in the RS5, leaving the V8 for the RS7.

I personally think this will be a mistake.

The new A8 is reported to get a 460 HP 4.0 V8, probably an evolution (or slightly higher tune) of the current 4.0 V8tt found in both cars. Frankly, this engine would be better suited in the S7

What are your thoughts?

I'm leasing my car and love it and have every intention of getting another come lease end, but that V6 might give me pause.

[pez81]

There are reports that the new S6 and S7's might dispense with the V8 and instead go with the V6 currently found in the RS5, leaving the V8 for the RS7.

I personally think this will be a mistake.

The new A8 is reported to get a 460 HP 4.0 V8, probably an evolution (or slightly higher tune) of the current 4.0 V8tt found in both cars. Frankly, this engine would be better suited in the S7

What are your thoughts?

I'm leasing my car and love it and have every intention of getting another come lease end, but that V6 might give me pause.

I agree. If the v6 will replace the current motor I wouldn't buy another one. The sound the RS5 makes is weak.

Sent from my XT1580 using Tapatalk

[shoe3k]

The 2.9L V6TT isn't too bad and the sound can be tweaked, but I think it sounds much better than the 3.0T used in the B8 S4. As long as the motor doesn't detract from the experience it could be a winner.

[wwhan]

If the new S6 is a V6, the S4/RS5 size maybe much more interesting.

[Pho99]

If the new S6 is a V6, the S4/RS5 size maybe much more interesting.

I don’t see them going to a v6 for their bigger vehicle

[p3u]

I don’t see them going to a v6 for their bigger vehicle

Why not, they used it in the A6, A8, and even larger Q7.

[A6sport]

I know you guys and your V8 motors... hope it's not because you're self consciences about other things? ;-)


And yes I get the V8 thing, we have an A8L and I love the sound that, some say only comes from a V8. However, have you heard of café standards?
Across a brand car manufactures have to meet these. And if you understand business, it's all about doing more with less. And if you're an audi enthusiast, you know that one of the last Audi LMP1 cars was powered by a twin turbo V6. If this motor can win at Le Mans, it's enough. Audi has always been about getting more from less. If you don't get this or don't like the direction, then as you have indicated, switch brands.

Don't be surprised when an Audi V6tt blows by you in your V8 whatever. just my opinion.

[moonlights4]

I know you guys and your V8 motors... hope it's not because you're self consciences about other things? ;-)


And yes I get the V8 thing, we have an A8L and I love the sound that, some say only comes from a V8. However, have you heard of café standards?
Across a brand car manufactures have to meet these. And if you understand business, it's all about doing more with less. And if you're an audi enthusiast, you know that one of the last Audi LMP1 cars was powered by a twin turbo V6. If this motor can win at Le Mans, it's enough. Audi has always been about getting more from less. If you don't get this or don't like the direction, then as you have indicated, switch brands.

Don't be surprised when an Audi V6tt blows by you in your V8 whatever. just my opinion.

Won't ever blow by my stage 2 "V8 whatever". Guaranteed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Beast]

I know you guys and your V8 motors... hope it's not because you're self consciences about other things? ;-)


And yes I get the V8 thing, we have an A8L and I love the sound that, some say only comes from a V8. However, have you heard of café standards?
Across a brand car manufactures have to meet these. And if you understand business, it's all about doing more with less. And if you're an audi enthusiast, you know that one of the last Audi LMP1 cars was powered by a twin turbo V6. If this motor can win at Le Mans, it's enough. Audi has always been about getting more from less. If you don't get this or don't like the direction, then as you have indicated, switch brands.

Don't be surprised when an Audi V6tt blows by you in your V8 whatever. just my opinion.

..

[Willënskraft]

V8... because V8

[p3u]

Won't ever blow by my stage 2 "V8 whatever". Guaranteed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Technology is the replacement for displacement, and your V8 is now 5 years old. Don't be surprised when if it blows you away. Engines have been downsizing and yet cars are significantly faster than past generations.

Ask yourself this basic question, do you really think the new S6/S7 be slower than the out going model? The obvious answer is no, it won't. Porsche is even using this in the Panamera. That says a lot.

With that said the overhead in the engine to provide it's performance will be impressive without a doubt when tuned.

[moonlights4]

Agreed that the stock performance may be superior when comparing stock vs stock but I can't imagine how the tuning potential will be at all comparable. I would argue that at between generations of cars there isn't any replacement for displacement. Perhaps over a period of 10-15 years, but between successive generations I don't see technology advancing that much. Just my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DGVR6]

2000 2.7tt 250 hp 258 tq.. 2018 2.9tt 444 hp 443 tq. (.2 displacement difference and 200hp/tq more)
I'll miss the v8 but wow.. technology has came such a long way to have a small engine with so much and comfortable power delivery.

But I'd say keep the v8. Can't beat the sound of a v8.

[gk1]

This thread makes me wonder how the R8 community is going to react to the V6 R8 when it debuts.
Similar perhaps to the Ford GT reactions....
Downsizing in the S6 might be ok, but I feel it has to be like 500+ HP not just the same horsepower as the outgoing model. The car might be lighter with a V6 but come on it's not a canyon carver like an RS5.... more of a sledgehammer.
I guess time will tell.

[MadAboutCars]

Yeah, at least when they dropped the v10 and introduced the turbo v8, the hp was similar, but the toque was produced at a much lower rpm. Just replacing the v8 with a v6 producing the same hp and possibly torque will not cut it, at least from people upgrading their S6/S7.

[shoe3k]

This thread makes me wonder how the R8 community is going to react to the V6 R8 when it debuts.
Similar perhaps to the Ford GT reactions....
Downsizing in the S6 might be ok, but I feel it has to be like 500+ HP not just the same horsepower as the outgoing model. The car might be lighter with a V6 but come on it's not a canyon carver like an RS5.... more of a sledgehammer.
I guess time will tell.

The V8 in the R8 was too slow for what the car was suppose to be. As for the Ford GT, people are paying over $400k+ for the car and it's coming with a 6 cylinder derived from other cars, which doesn't make it as exotic as the car/price. I personally think that the engine choice for the Ford GT was a strange choice.

[MadMaxD]

Honestly, I just wouldn't trade if it was a V6. I modify my cars and the V8 has far more potential, and I love the noise. I don't have anything against a V6, but in this car it isn't for me (I'd buy a Lotus Evora or a Qiulia QF in a heartbeat though).

[gk1]

Yeah, at least when they dropped the v10 and introduced the turbo v8, the hp was similar, but the toque was produced at a much lower rpm. Just replacing the v8 with a v6 producing the same hp and possibly torque will not cut it, at least from people upgrading their S6/S7.

True. Unfortunately they neutered the stock S6/S7 4.0T with 406 lb ft allegedly for the S-tronic (even though we know reality is more like 450 lb ft) With the switch to the ZF it's likely they'll give the full 443 lb ft number from the RS5 motor making it a sales/marketing point.
Play with the gearing and final drive and you have a quicker car with no more power.. sure faster is faster, but just seems weak for a C level S car. Makes perfect sense in the RS5 (although previous gen RS5 owners may disagree) it's lighter much more torque and improved efficiency.
On the S4 the move from the B7 V8 to B8 V6 made sense and worked but I dunno at this level....
Again we will see....

[TritonTC]

This thread makes me wonder how the R8 community is going to react to the V6 R8 when it debuts.
Similar perhaps to the Ford GT reactions....
Downsizing in the S6 might be ok, but I feel it has to be like 500+ HP not just the same horsepower as the outgoing model. The car might be lighter with a V6 but come on it's not a canyon carver like an RS5.... more of a sledgehammer.
I guess time will tell.

It is possible. The Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio has a 2.9L TTV6 and a claimed 505 hp.

From what I've seen there is little room left on the table for tuning when companies downsize their engines if induction methods are similar. They will be having to push the limits from the factory in order to not lose power/acceleration from one gen to the next. It would be one thing if the S6/7 was naturally aspirated V8 going to a TTV6. Now if they threw in a performance hybrid system into the mix that would be another story. I bet we are still a generation or two away from seeing the lessons learned from Formula E hitting the S6/7 still.



Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[p3u]

For anyone thinking that the engines are "at the limit" think again.

Technology keeps pushing on, its progressing faster than ever, not slowing down.

RS5 on left, S6/7 on right. Just look at the artificial flat torque line and tell me that there isn't plenty of overhead to improve.

[A6sport]

V8... because V8

Now this is the most honest response to the entire conversation.

[cobrario]

It is a total myth to say you can do more with fewer cylinders and less displacement, all else being equal, period.

[p3u]

It is a total myth to say you can do more with fewer cylinders and less displacement, all else being equal, period.

That is not in question. Only that previous generation generation of a larger displacement can be equaled or bested by current and smaller generation of engines.

[pez81]

For anyone thinking that the engines are "at the limit" think again.

Technology keeps pushing on, its progressing faster than ever, not slowing down.

RS5 on left, S6/7 on right. Just look at the artificial flat torque line and tell me that there isn't plenty of overhead to improve.

But winding out this V8 feels so good.

Sent from my XT1580 using Tapatalk

[p3u]

That is also not in question lol

[Barritia]

How much faster can these cars get in reality. It don't matter if they have a 1liter 5000hp engine as these cars are already in super car territory. The output of the engines is not the issue it's having a drivetrain capable enough to handle the power and put down the power. 99.99% of us are using these cars as daily drivers so they need to be reliable and within a price range people can afford and not in a realm of vehicle they have no place being. Damn you can make a 2liter Honda put out big power.

The hellcat and demon is a perfect example of what happens when you try to stuff big output into a car most people will be daily driving. Look at the price and what you get. It's just unrealistic and it makes no difference if it's a V6 or V8.

But I will say if I'm paying $80k+ for a car I would expect a V8. I don't care if it's putting out less power than a V6 lol

[Frenetic]

What kind of bothers me (other than the loss of two cylinders) is that the HP number will remain static between between the C7 and C8. Yes, the torque is more, but just something psychological about going to a completely new model with the same power as the old one. There's always some progression, even if it is meager or simply a number's game.

The only saving grace--assuming it does come out with V6--is that it must be faster out-of-the-box. I'm talking a manufacturer-claimed time of 4.0 seconds or less. Those times have to be sandbagged and, above all else, real, not some hallucination numbers Toyota/Lexus puts out.

Still, it needs that 460 HP V8tt. 475 HP sounds better.

[Ze_Nardo6]

Stock C7.5 S6/7 v Stock C8 S6/7 - C8 wins.

Stage 2 C7.5 S6/7 v stage 2 C8 S6/7 - C7.5 wins. I'll bet money on this.

You're not going to get 600hp and 685tq with a tune and downpipes on a 2.9L 6-cyl TT that produces ~460hp in it's factory state. The advantage of 8 cylinders is not that apparent in stock form, but in the aftermarket, it sure will be

[p3u]

Just look at the charts I posted and the artificially flat torque line shows there is a lot left to be had with tuning on the 2.9. I'll bet money on that.

[Ze_Nardo6]

Just look at the charts I posted and the artificially flat torque line shows there is a lot left to be had with tuning on the 2.9. I'll bet money on that.

What part of my post implied there isn't? But it won't match the gains from the V8TT. If it does, I'll be very surpised. Time will tell

[Frenetic]

Yeah, but the V8 gets a lot more torque lower in the RPM band.

Look at the newton-meters at 1000 RPMs. It's a 100 more in the V8! That's crazy and having that much more torque lower in the power band makes real-world, fast driving way more enjoyable, without having to wind-out the RPMs as much. Also probably less lag, even though both are "hot vees."

[MadAboutCars]

Yeah, but the V8 gets a lot more torque lower in the RPM band.

Look at the newton-meters at 1000 RPMs. It's a 100 more in the V8! That's crazy and having that much more torque lower in the power band makes real-world, fast driving way more enjoyable, without having to wind-out the RPMs as much. Also probably less lag, even though both are "hot vees."

+1. Yes, very event in the new S V6 turbo. It didn't bother my wife, who was used to driving a diesel, but for me after the V8TT, it was very noticeable, especially in D mode. Even the 2018 Audi TTRS (5 cylinder) I drove the other day, felt terrible compared to my V8TT, and in a much lighter car. Smiles per mile around town were well down. I'm going to wait for the electric turbo, before I venture away from a V8...

[Velopod]

Yeah, but the V8 gets a lot more torque lower in the RPM band.

Look at the newton-meters at 1000 RPMs. It's a 100 more in the V8! That's crazy and having that much more torque lower in the power band makes real-world, fast driving way more enjoyable, without having to wind-out the RPMs as much. Also probably less lag, even though both are "hot vees."

This is what I noticed right away as well. In "real world" driving, lots of torque way down low is my personal favorite. My previous CTS-V with a supercharged V8 was king there.

I get the midrange punch, high rpm roll on (I also have a flat 6 Porsche with great mid range, but zero low end torque), but not for these boats.

[DGVR6]

Just look at the charts I posted and the artificially flat torque line shows there is a lot left to be had with tuning on the 2.9. I'll bet money on that.

I'm almost certain that will not be the case.. while there is going to room for improvement , it will not be anything like the 4.0tt in terms of torque.

Take a look at the m3/4 3.0tt. Torque will not be too close to what a v8 will pump out.

We will have to know what turbo is going to be used in the 2.9, I'm positive it'll have beefy internals and can potentially handle more though

[jordon]

2000 2.7tt 250 hp 258 tq.. 2018 2.9tt 444 hp 443 tq. (.2 displacement difference and 200hp/tq more)
I'll miss the v8 but wow.. technology has came such a long way to have a small engine with so much and comfortable power delivery.

But I'd say keep the v8. Can't beat the sound of a v8.

You are comparing a 17 year old S car to a new RS car. 2000 RS4 had 380hp and 325 torque. 17 years and .2 displacement is + 64hp and 118 tq. Not really that much.

I may be biased, but i also say stick with v8!

Part of the reason i got rid of my b8.5 s4 for an s7 was because i was missing the v8 rumble i had enjoyed for the last 7 years in my e39 m5 and 540i.

Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Audizine mobile app

[DGVR6]

I hear what you're saying and I was actually comparing it to the S when I should've even out the playing field. But the RS 69hp/118tq is still enough of a difference considering the advancement in technology that we're all seeing.

14+ hp per displacement over the old 2.7 may not seem much but with 19.8 mpg on b5 RS, 32.5 on the b9, it's great to see more power being squeezed out with regards to fuel economy. Not to mention, insane amount of torque gain over the previous v6tt. I'm actually glad that the the v6tt is back better than ever. I'll miss the v8, and still think the s6 should have a better tweaked version of the 4.0tt.

[gta7]

I went from the '16 A7 to the '16 RS7 just because I missed the V8 rumble!!!

[p3u]

The biggest thing that is being missed when looking at the progression of engine technology (comparing B5 RS4 engine to B9 RS5) isn't the increase in power, its the area under the curve. Anyone can make big power out of any displacement, but the area under the curve shows how flexible and capable the engine truly is.

B5 RS4

[R3.]

What will they do for the RS model??


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[MadMaxD]

Stock C7.5 S6/7 v Stock C8 S6/7 - C8 wins.

Stage 2 C7.5 S6/7 v stage 2 C8 S6/7 - C7.5 wins. I'll bet money on this.

You're not going to get 600hp and 685tq with a tune and downpipes on a 2.9L 6-cyl TT that produces ~460hp in it's factory state. The advantage of 8 cylinders is not that apparent in stock form, but in the aftermarket, it sure will be

This.