Timing Chain service at 100k miles?

[Sazexa]

I used to work at an Audi dealer. The guys there write up chain jobs for, as Jake said, B6 and B7 4.2's quite often. But they told me they've never done a set of chains (out of thousands and thousands of cars) on anything '08 or newer.

[rs5alive]

Given that mine is just under 50K miles and the general consensus is that 2008+ cars don't have this issue, I am going to just chalk it up to bad luck. It does give me some peace of mind that if my mechanic does a good job at fixing it and putting it back together, I shouldn't have this issue again. Thanks Sazexa.

[11S5V8]

102k miles no timing chain service or issues.

[PoisonTheWell]

Checking back in since I'm at 96k miles. Was there ever any consensus? I've been changing the oil every 5k miles since 65k miles or so. I'd have to go check my records, but somewhere around there.

[Jake@JHM]

We've never had to replace the timing components on the FSI 4.2Ls

[Litchy]

Did mine and the condition of the Tensioners and the stretch of the chains, glad I did mine at 100k. It's drives so much better too.

I doubled up on the Tensioners so if anyone needs a couple, please let me know

[Toddiesel]

Did mine and the condition of the Tensioners and the stretch of the chains, glad I did mine at 100k. It's drives so much better too.

I doubled up on the Tensioners so if anyone needs a couple, please let me know

How much did it cost you?

[Toddiesel]

I'm looking at picking up a 2011 S5 with 63k miles and a friend that seems pretty knowledgeable about the B8 4.2 has told me i'll need to replace the timing chain at around 75-85k miles and that it's about a $7k job. From this thread it seems like he's wrong about the mileage, but right about the price. Can anyone state for sure (as sure as one can be about something like this) that my friend is wrong about the mileage? Also I found this, which contradicts what people are saying about the costs of parts. https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...6e109465ankt1/ Can anyone say if that is somehow not all the parts needed?

[Toddiesel]

bueller.jpg

[EddieH]

bueller.jpg

Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

That's funny. But seriously, I have not heard of timing chain failures on that engine. Have you looked into Audi's maintenance schedule? I'm guessing that the timing chain isn't even on a schedule.

[Toddiesel]

Ha. Only took me 2 months to get a response. Yeah I did more research after not getting any more responses on here and that one guy is the ONLY person that has mentioned any issues with it. Seems like everyone else says it's good for like 200k. I did pick it up (as you can probably tell from my avatar) and so far so good.

[diestro]

Ha. Only took me 2 months to get a response. Yeah I did more research after not getting any more responses on here and that one guy is the ONLY person that has mentioned any issues with it. Seems like everyone else says it's good for like 200k. I did pick it up (as you can probably tell from my avatar) and so far so good.

were the parts you linked here: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...6e109465ankt1/ all you needed after all? and how much did you pay for the replacement? thanks!

[TontoLoidRS5]

Easily check using VCDS, the camshaft phase.

Will add this here for the record, as the specs seem to be used across https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...49892-9999.pdf

To check the timing chain both exhaust and inlet should be checked and the codes can be found in VCDS under advanced values/measurements under engine category. The engine should be warm. See example here:

https://youtu.be/9cTJrS2WhNw

They are saying +/-3 after idling; Whichever, it seems to be until warm, I assume, as nothing else stated, I can find.

In addition to no other stories found on this being an issue, there is one data point indicating there is no need to be proactive in view of catastrophic engine failure happening at the same time, with the phase off by more.

After driving the phase value I get moves up after driving until restart the engine; more observations are needed to check how much of an impact. Would be great if we could collect some data or anybody knows more.

There are obviously other models, where people have values around the +-10 degree mark, without having suffered anything yet.

Maybe, it is enough to listen for any rattle coming the chains per the bulletin above.

[hahnmgh63]

There is always exceptions to the average when it comes to failures. I would definitely say the design has improved for the tensioning system across the board (2.0t, 3.0t, 4.2) but if you are sticking to Audi's 10k oil changes your chances of excessive wear are increased. Lots of data over the years on the Phenolic guides alone having increased wear with dirty older oil. Oil changes are relatively cheap, why go 10k when every oil analysis shows MOST (a few exceptions) good sythetics are done by at least 8k miles and some of the lower priced bargain ones are done by 6k miles.
Thats just discussing the guides, there's always the possibility of plugging/coking, varnishing the oil passages in the tensioners with oil oil too.

[LostRacer]

@77k My '14 RS5 is in for chain stretch. Parts just finished coming in for it. Its supposed to be done next week sometime.

Dealership said if I were paying for it, $16k. Luckily extended warranty is covering it, minus the small deductible.

[TontoLoidRS5]

@77k My '14 RS5 is in for chain stretch. Parts just finished coming in for it. Its supposed to be done next week sometime.

Dealership said if I were paying for it, $16k. Luckily extended warranty is covering it, minus the small deductible.

Great plan. That's roughly my mileage. I am considering making a claim; How did you/they diagnose it? Was it the passenger side bank 1, exhaust camshaft, or noise?

Trying to get some more data on this.

[RPMtech147]

B8 s5 140k without a timing chain service. She still runs like a champ 🤞👌

I haven't seen any pattern issues with chains on the RS5...I just had one come through the shop with 150,000miles and was doing fine.

[hahnmgh63]

Just did some Mx work on a 100k RS5 car that belongs to a friend. I had not worked on the car before so after resetting all of the Mx functions and changing the Instrument cluster from a 10k oil change to a 6k I did some logging fo data. The timing showed right in specs of +/- 3'.

[TontoLoidRS5]

Just did some Mx work on a 100k RS5 car that belongs to a friend. I had not worked on the car before so after resetting all of the Mx functions and changing the Instrument cluster from a 10k oil change to a 6k I did some logging fo data. The timing showed right in specs of +/- 3'.

Agree w all points. I am observing if I push the car and check before switching off I get a higher reading for the phase position. I know the VVT moves the camshaft; with that, I am trying to estimate what the phase position should to count as within tolerance. For example, a phase position of +5 degrees,I I imagining the chain on each bank on the sprocket for each camshafy then the it is 5 degrees out of spec. Intuitively, if this is true, 5 degrees should be "ok" and nothing to be concerned about? All my phase readings are positive, and I guess if the chain would jump on the crankshaft sprocket, in the direction of the bank 1 (which I think is normally the trouble side passenger) then is will lessen the problem assuming that both of bank 2 camshaft phases are closer to 0. This leads me to the conclusion to monitor the reading and probably no need to action on it just now. For a stretch I am guessing both exhaust and intake would normally be outside of what's normal.

[TontoLoidRS5]

I count something like , for simplicity 36 teeth on the sprocket, so if it moves from 2.5 - 5 degrees, that is still a less than the average of 10 7.5 - 12.5 (or 7.5 in 5-10 degrees) indicating a jump? Also, it seems mostly in the cases it has jumped the readings are in the minus.

Is the chain maybe moving up the tooth (and perhaps stretching) as the car is driven.

That number of teeth and therefore length of the range would indicate +-3 being the perfect reading ie that of a chain that hasn't jumped.

[TontoLoidRS5]

Maybe, the camshaft has moved a bit as well, but that should merit changing the timing chain if it does not keep doing so?

[TontoLoidRS5]

Also, one last note, I guess it only makes sense to measure at warm idle, ie when the car has been warmed up without driving, or been switched off since, in order to be able to compare against what is should read. Technically, while driving the phasing should be able to up to 20-30 degrees or even more for most vehicle types, if I am not wrong (not sure exactly about the range for the RS5).

** oil pressure being lower at idle than higher load. Key I guess is to finding out if VVT is actuated at idle.

[hahnmgh63]

IMG_6216.jpg


Actually the pic is a B7 RS4 but the timing gear design is pretty much identical, some parts, but not all are interchangeable with the B8/B8.5 CFSA motor. 4 short chains, and with regular oil changes and top quality oils the chains Normally shouldn't stretch much, guides on a well cared for motor I have seen looked good at 100k, I've also got a 26k, and 27k motors with no perceptible stretch or guide wear. With Age the guides in pretty much all past Audi's as well as other cars have showed tendency to crack so who knows what the lifespan of even a well taken care of motor will be. Here's a great video from Vag Technic in the UK on replacing a Cam adjuster that had failed and the timing chain setup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cTJrS2WhNw

[TontoLoidRS5]

Thanks. Probably it is then either the camshaft adjuster, oil valve (if this part is separate) or Cam Adjuster Solenoid. Will try the latter.

[hahnmgh63]

I actually have two RS5 motors here in my shop in various degrees of breakdown. I can get you any pic of any part of the timing components you want. One is a 99k motor and the other is a 26k motor.
Both had spun rod bearings. I think the high mileage motor had it from poor oil Mx, quality and mileage, maybe even a little dirt/dust intrusion. The 26k motor was an Ebay motor which I think was stored poorly in the 2yrs between the time of the original cars accident and the time it was ran again, I think the parts got dry inside and there was moisture/condensation intrusion. After seeing these two motors, and knowing the 8k plus Redline, I am convinced the RS5 needs more frequent Oil changes and the best oil you can buy. I mean, how can you expect that the engine would be happy with the same oil changes as an A3/A4/A5? Audi is just using a number which works for the Bean counters and Environmentalists. You won't find an oil analysis out there that shows any life left in a 10k oil change RS5.

[TontoLoidRS5]

I would add the time between oil changes obviously shouldn't go past a year considering contamination over time such as leak-down from the fuel pumps, which always happens to some degree. Here in Europe the long life is max two years.

The failing part on some other VAGs were oil pressure parts for VVT such as the camshaft adjusters, why I am inspecting those. It might be enough to clean out contamination from oil and put them back but I will be replacing the exhaust one tomorrow. I was quoted 106 for the OEM part I will be going for that not knowing who makes it for them. febi bilstein probably would be just fine, but still.

[hahnmgh63]

Ok, you're talking about the VVT actuator solenoid, not the actual adjuster on the back of the engine/cam housing as those cost a fortune. That's about the same price we'd pay here for the Solenoid (06E115243H) from the dealer.
https://www.buyaudivwparts.com/oem-p...lve-06e115243h

[TontoLoidRS5]

Ok, you're talking about the VVT actuator solenoid, not the actual adjuster on the back of the engine/cam housing as those cost a fortune. That's about the same price we'd pay here for the Solenoid (06E115243H) from the dealer.
https://www.buyaudivwparts.com/oem-p...lve-06e115243h

Control valve for cam adjuster, yes: 06E 109 257 J as in https://audi.7zap.com/de/rdw/audi+rs...109-109010/#10 #10

the easiest job to do. Normally wouldn't do this type of preventative maintenance but the idle is a bit rough as well (probably 99 % carbon build up due to too few opportunities to push the car), but also slightly increased fuel consumption. The OEM part is about 100 a piece.

There are four Control valves, obviously, in total.

On the topic of oil changes, maybe, you will be good for 6 months if you drive 10k highway miles during those.

[LostRacer]

Great plan. That's roughly my mileage. I am considering making a claim; How did you/they diagnose it? Was it the passenger side bank 1, exhaust camshaft, or noise?

Trying to get some more data on this.

My apologies i missed this. My car would shutoff. I waited a minute and it started up just fine. Took it around the corner and it drove normal. I went to a cars and coffee event with no issues. When I left to come home it would just die on me. It wouldn't stay running. I called a tow truck and had it taken right in. They diagnosed it in about a week. I just got my car back about a week ago. Runs great now. I had them install my LWFW wheel as well.