Timing Chain service at 100k miles?

[gqambitions]

Has anyone done their timing chain service? Was just told by my mechanic around 100k miles I should look into doing this service. Parts alone are $4,200 from what I have seen. I have a 2010 Audi S5 with 84k miles currently. Any feedback will help please. Thank you.

[Jeff V.]

That's not part of the official maintenance schedule. Does anyone know of confirmed problems with the timing chain on the FSI engines? I know the old non-FSI engines were a nightmare, but supposedly those flaws were corrected with the newer design.

Maybe your mechanic is just thinking of the old, flawed engines from before the B8 era.

[bknewtype]

^ if that is true, francis is gonna have an orgasm

[gqambitions]

That's not part of the official maintenance schedule. Does anyone know of confirmed problems with the timing chain on the FSI engines? I know the old non-FSI engines were a nightmare, but supposedly those flaws were corrected with the newer design.

Maybe your mechanic is just thinking of the old, flawed engines from before the B8 era.

I have been doing some research online and have read a couple of threads where it has been done. Some concerns range from not doing oil changes every 5k miles once you get to higher mileage. But nothing concrete. Nothing is wrong with the car currently. Still runs strong, just did an oil change, new spark plugs, new air filter and carbon clean. I have a minor leak in the rear main. But that is about it.

- - - Updated - - -

^ if that is true, francis is gonna have an orgasm

truth lol

[a4ced]

^ if that is true, francis is gonna have an orgasm

Me too though lol

[gqambitions]

After talking to some people, I am told this was only an issue on the b7 a4/s4 that the b8 use metal tensioners which aren't a problem as opposed to the plastics. Just curious if anyone over 100k has ran into any issues.

[Jeff V.]

For anyone who doesn't know, this is an engine-out service. The timing hardware is on the rear of the block. Audi pulled out all the stops trying to move weight closer to the middle of the car.

[Tomieg]

After talking to some people, I am told this was only an issue on the b7 a4/s4 that the b8 use metal tensioners which aren't a problem as opposed to the plastics. Just curious if anyone over 100k has ran into any issues.

The tensioner themselves have been updated since the last gen but still utilize some plastic components in it's design.

FWIW, a local Audi specialist shop recon'd that as these cars are now up there in age and mileage this service will need to be performed...this includes the B8 chassis. Requires at min a motor pull to complete the job right..

B7 guide



B8 upgraded guide



Parts info for a B8

Parts Information OEM Part # Price
Timing Chain Tensioner
Tensioner
Upper

19 - Right
079109218R $275.00
19 - Left
079109217R $275.00
Lower

19 - Right
079109507M $166.67
19 - Left
079109507AF $166.67

-Tom

[Jeff V.]

What about the chain itself? I know those aren't subject to stretching and deterioration like belts, but it's my understanding that they do wear and deform a bit as they age.

[Tomieg]

What about the chain itself? I know those aren't subject to stretching and deterioration like belts, but it's my understanding that they do wear and deform a bit as they age.

Pretty sure the problem lies with the tensioners themselves which become brittle overtime due to the repeated heat cycles and or lack of routine maintenance and eventually become brittle and disintegrate.

Not a B8 S5 but a B7 RS4 which also has the same reinforced guides as the B8 getting the service done while i was in the shop...was told it was at min a ~10 hr job totalling near 20k with parts..

[Jeff V.]

Not a B8 S5 but a B7 RS4 which also has the same reinforced guides as the B8 getting the service done while i was in the shop...was told it was at min a ~10 hr job totalling near 20k with parts..

If that's the case, then I see these cars having pretty much zero value past 100k miles. It doesn't take a math genius to figure out that it's not worth it to sink $20k in maintenance into a car that's barely worth $16k.

Of course, that's assuming a timing chain/guide issue actually exists on the FSI engines. I'd really like to see a teardown from an objective shop.

[PoisonTheWell]

At 77k miles. Would definitely be interested in what kind of potential landmines I could be heading into.

[bknewtype]

maybe you guys should @ some of the vendor / shop owners here. I know RSworx is big on doing the 4.2 timing chain, so maybe they can chime in on the b8 chassis. they have a write up for the Rs4, but I never seen a mention for the b8

[Dr. s4]

My dads v8 s5 has 113k miles on it. I know what chain slap sounds like because I used to have a b6 s4, and his shows no sign of it the FSI motor is built pretty well. I wouldn't worry about it too much. If it happens you'd be better of getting used motor and slapping it in.

[The Flash]

this is why i do all my shit myself when i can cus it gets expensive
my nissan frontier started whining and its a known issue so i took a day off and pulled the entire front cover off and changed all the chains and guides
the truck now has 210000 and still quiet

[The Flash]

also my S5 is at the dealer for the chain TSB i hope they cover it cus my warranty runs out on 8/26 couple of days away

[gqambitions]

My dads v8 s5 has 113k miles on it. I know what chain slap sounds like because I used to have a b6 s4, and his shows no sign of it the FSI motor is built pretty well. I wouldn't worry about it too much. If it happens you'd be better of getting used motor and slapping it in.

ahh I see. What else at 113k has your dad had to do on the car? any issues with high pressure fuel pumps?

[gqambitions]

The tensioner themselves have been updated since the last gen but still utilize some plastic components in it's design.

FWIW, a local Audi specialist shop recon'd that as these cars are now up there in age and mileage this service will need to be performed...this includes the B8 chassis. Requires at min a motor pull to complete the job right..

B7 guide



B8 upgraded guide



Parts info for a B8

Parts Information OEM Part # Price
Timing Chain Tensioner
Tensioner
Upper

19 - Right
079109218R $275.00
19 - Left
079109217R $275.00
Lower

19 - Right
079109507M $166.67
19 - Left
079109507AF $166.67

-Tom

Thank you for the detailed information. So around 100k I should look to complete these components then.

[JoshDub]

If that's the case, then I see these cars having pretty much zero value past 100k miles. It doesn't take a math genius to figure out that it's not worth it to sink $20k in maintenance into a car that's barely worth $16k.

Of course, that's assuming a timing chain/guide issue actually exists on the FSI engines. I'd really like to see a teardown from an objective shop.

I'm highly skeptical that it would cost anywhere near 20k. I could see how the labor would skyrocket in a shop that is inexperienced with these. How much does JHM and the like charge for the timing service for the B6/B7? I know their top kit is around $3500 just in parts.

[Tomieg]

I'm highly skeptical that it would cost anywhere near 20k. I could see how the labor would skyrocket in a shop that is inexperienced with these. How much does JHM and the like charge for the timing service for the B6/B7? I know their top kit is around $3500 just in parts.

If going by dealer prices and/or book hours then i have no doubt that the costs will accumulate quickly. Nevertheless this is no small job.

Some more good info here on the comprehensive service involved.

http://auditimingchainproblem.com/audi_4.2.html

It looks like they specialize in this particular job alone lol

[Tomieg]

Thank you for the detailed information. So around 100k I should look to complete these components then.

There's really no telling when this should be performed. There have been cases of chains failing @60k or @100k. Audi lists this as a lifetime item so you can interpret that how you want. Lifetime to Audi might mean the life of OEM warranty whereas the average joe might translate lifetime indicating the life of the car.

I would say if your car has had it's routine service done ie oil changes and scheduled maintenance and you haven't experienced any loud rattling noises during startup or under load then i wouldn't lose sleep about it.

This reminds me of the rod bearing issues with the BMW M3's lol...idk what's worse!

-Tom

[Jeff V.]

Some more good info here on the comprehensive service involved.

http://auditimingchainproblem.com/audi_4.2.html

It looks like they specialize in this particular job alone lol

That is for the OLD, NON FSI engine.

There could be legit issues here, or these could just be shops preying on people who don't know the difference between FSI and non-FSI.

I'm not saying it's impossible. But I'd like to see some documented cases of timing chain/guide failure on B7 RS4s or any other V6/V8/V10 FSI engine since ~2006. There's a lot of cars besides the B8 using this engine design. If there were timing issues, one would think we'd be hearing about them by now.

[Tomieg]

That is for the OLD, NON FSI engine.

There could be legit issues here, or these could just be shops preying on people who don't know the difference between FSI and non-FSI.

I'm not saying it's impossible. But I'd like to see some documented cases of timing chain/guide failure on B7 RS4s or any other V6/V8/V10 FSI engine since ~2006. There's a lot of cars besides the B8 using this engine design. If there were timing issues, one would think we'd be hearing about them by now.

Yes, that is correct. Sorry i should've clarified that but it was more to showcase the intensive labor involved. The B8 FSI motors are still very much chain driven albeit with revised guides as previously mentioned.

I am with you on that. I believe the Q7 and Volkswagen Touareg share the same 4.2 FSI V8 so i would be inclined to hear how those are holding up as well.

[VinnysS4]

I personally consider timing chain guides to be done at least every 100k... But that's just me. 20k for timing? Lolol
So... 3500 in parts (and that's the whole shitting kaboodle, I paid about 1k)
Book time on a b6/b7 s4/s5 is 40 hours for timing r+r.....
40x $120(average rate here is 100 to 135) =4800
4800+3500 = $8300. That's is for splurge and buy parts to replace Parts that are still good)
$20k?? My whole build from cleaning pistons, port matched and stage 2 port and polish on the heads heads ; throttle body and throttle body elbow, timing chains, guides and upgraded RS4 metal guides, tensioners, full custom stainless exhaust w/downpipes an x pipe and flowmaster delta force 40 series mufflers , true cold air intake, automatic to 6 speed swap with axels driveline and rear diff, resurfaced flywheel and new clutch, new ECU and software, all new track motor mounts and suspension, track strut mounts, coilovers, wheels and tires and a host of other mods and upgrades.... and I'm only into it $6k

Oh and a full 6000 watt competition stereo system that includes a 5000 watt custom made Fi BTL N2 18" sub and fiberglassed trunk, JL Audio component door speakers and matched amplifier, touch screen deck and fully dynamatted and sound defended and sealed interior...

Learn to turn a wrench and good things will happen
Just my .02

Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Audizine mobile app

[mcbuck]

Learn to turn a wrench and good things will happen

Love this!

[gqambitions]

I personally consider timing chain guides to be done at least every 100k... But that's just me. 20k for timing? Lolol
So... 3500 in parts (and that's the whole shitting kaboodle, I paid about 1k)
Book time on a b6/b7 s4/s5 is 40 hours for timing r+r.....
40x $120(average rate here is 100 to 135) =4800
4800+3500 = $8300. That's is for splurge and buy parts to replace Parts that are still good)
$20k?? My whole build from cleaning pistons, port matched and stage 2 port and polish on the heads heads ; throttle body and throttle body elbow, timing chains, guides and upgraded RS4 metal guides, tensioners, full custom stainless exhaust w/downpipes an x pipe and flowmaster delta force 40 series mufflers , true cold air intake, automatic to 6 speed swap with axels driveline and rear diff, resurfaced flywheel and new clutch, new ECU and software, all new track motor mounts and suspension, track strut mounts, coilovers, wheels and tires and a host of other mods and upgrades.... and I'm only into it $6k

Oh and a full 6000 watt competition stereo system that includes a 5000 watt custom made Fi BTL N2 18" sub and fiberglassed trunk, JL Audio component door speakers and matched amplifier, touch screen deck and fully dynamatted and sound defended and sealed interior...

Learn to turn a wrench and good things will happen
Just my .02

Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Audizine mobile app

Have already bought tool kits and a guide. Learning to do things on my own already. You are right learning is the best way . But from info I have heard the FSI do not have this issue, but other things can also come up.

[VinnysS4]

The fsi engine has metal guides that don't really break... true... however, the chain rides across a thin nylon/plastic piece on the guides(not 100% sure on material) and that part can and will wear out. Here is what a 100k mile guide looks like.. while it's still "good" I couldn't put it back in.



Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Audizine mobile app

[brilliant_black]

I've read a lot of posts over here and on a5oc and I can't seem to find any case of timing chain failure on the V8 S5.

[Jake@JHM]

We haven't come across any timing chain or timing component related failures on any of the FSI V8s yet. The components are much more robust compared to the B6-B7 S4s

[prkieffer]

My timing chain tensioner broke 09 A4 blew engine. Always replace. Updated on 13 all 09-12 have issues


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[Jake@JHM]

My timing chain tensioner broke 09 A4 blew engine. Always replace. Updated on 13 all 09-12 have issues


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

The 2.0T TFSI is known to have timing chain failures and we have replaced many. However they are talking about the 4.2L

[prkieffer]

Apologies


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[ScottKC]

Love this!

X2

Sent from my SM-G955U using Audizine mobile app

[a4ced]

Coming back to this just to say I'm throwing a timing code according to my local shop. He usually hits the nail on the head but I'm waiting for a final verdict.

[jaypilot75]

I read the technical articles from Audi engineers some time back...so like it has been stated....it is the failure of the guides on the previous generations. B8's have reinforced guides which were taken from the RS line. Why they didnt figure this out sooner?? The b7 guides would begin to crack causing less chain tension which may or may not cause erratic idle, loss of power, timing jumps or "catastrophic engine failure". So...THANK GOD our b8's dont have this timing guide. However, as you know...there are attornerys that proofread these fixes and make sure to convey that Audi has taken measures to prevent future timing guide failures but makes no guarantee. Also stated that catalyst to internal guide failure includes engine operation with low engine oil levels & excessive gaps in oil changes. My initial reason for looking into this was the same as yours...IT COST HOW MUCH???. I am cautious to change every 5k and easy on the gas until the engine is hot as the guides are more prone to breakage when cold under load.

Sent from my LGUS997 using Audizine mobile app

[Dr. s4]

ahh I see. What else at 113k has your dad had to do on the car? any issues with high pressure fuel pumps?

No just cooling issues


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[goodforyou24]

B8 s5 140k without a timing chain service. She still runs like a champ 🤞👌

[rs5alive]

I have fallen into the category where I am having trouble with the timing chain service. I have a 2013 RS5 with 49K miles on it. It started throwing lean bank codes and ultimately stalled on me.

I haven't gotten confirmation yet but I am expecting that one of the mechanical adjusters might have worn out (though I may be brainwashed by JHM marketing). At any rate, one of the cams is significantly off. The pics below show the cam position at TDC, the bar across the head is a measurement device to see how much the cam is off. In a perfect world at TDC it should lay flat against the head (like in the first pic). In the other pic you can see the bar is not able to seat against the head and is crooked.

Right now I am into it for 5K for removal and installation of drive train. I expect at least another 5K in parts. Once I am able to move from the autohaus to the poor house I will let everyone know what I paid for this adventure.



Good side...



Bad side...

[Jake@JHM]

I have fallen into the category where I am having trouble with the timing chain service. I have a 2013 RS5 with 49K miles on it. It started throwing lean bank codes and ultimately stalled on me.

I haven't gotten confirmation yet but I am expecting that one of the mechanical adjusters might have worn out (though I may be brainwashed by JHM marketing). At any rate, one of the cams is significantly off. The pics below show the cam position at TDC, the bar across the head is a measurement device to see how much the cam is off. In a perfect world at TDC it should lay flat against the head (like in the first pic). In the other pic you can see the bar is not able to seat against the head and is crooked.

Right now I am into it for 5K for removal and installation of drive train. I expect at least another 5K in parts. Once I am able to move from the autohaus to the poor house I will let everyone know what I paid for this adventure.



Good side...



Bad side...

Pics aren't working.

We haven't seen an RS5 have timing chain issue yet, although its always possible. The biggest cars with issues are the B6-B7 S4.

[rs5alive]

I think I fixed the image issue.

Good to know that the RS5s haven't had this issue yet. I may have just pulled the lucky ticket.

I am trying to use this time in a positive way by adding some .034 motor mounts and transmission mounts in the process. Jake@JHM, if you have any suggestions I would very much be interested in hearing them.

Aside from the weakness in the mechanical adjusters, I have also read that changing the oil every 5K miles is preventative maintenance in keeping the chain guides from wearing out as fast. Seems excessive with the fully synthetic oils, but I am probably going to start doing that (anything to avoid another 10K repair).