Towing capacity and anyone push the limits??

[batman2.7]

I'm on my way right now to buy a 20' travel lite camper... I'm wondering how possible would it be once I hooked up a trailer hitch and electric brake controller for the camper brakes...to tow a camper with my stage 1 2.7.... with the camper being a travel lite it only weighs 3230lbs.... can this be done? What is the most anyone has towed with their 2.7.... thanks in advance

[G0to60]

That's right at the limit for the US towing limit BUT they are rated at 5000lb in Europe so take those numbers as you will.

I've towed my wife's GTI when the fuel pump died and that weighs in at right around 3000lb. It handled it no problem even without any trailer brakes.

Audi Towing GTI_zpsgldpocjn by Wayne Larson, on Flickr

[mr_dave]

Manual or auto? The auto is a known weak link without pulling anything. That being said, with the right hitch 3200lbs should be doable. If it is an auto, personally I wouldn't stake any family vacations on it.

I've towed probably about 2000lbs a couple times with the S6 when I was doing some landscaping and it handled it like nothing, which made me think it could do a lot more if not for the trans reliability.

[davidsain]

I only found class 1 hitches for my 2008 A4 saloon. They are rated for 2000 lbs. Would love to find a class 3. I wouldn't want to pull a camper trailer with a Class 1.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Audizine mobile app

[chris86vw]

That's right at the limit for the US towing limit BUT they are rated at 5000lb in Europe so take those numbers as you will.

You need to consider tongue weight not just the trailer weight.

Part of the reason that the US tow rate is lower is that US trailers are setup so that they have more tongue weight than european vehicles. 3000 vs 5000 on US trailer which usually are supposed to be setup for 10% would be a difference of 200lbs on the vehicle. So if it is just you then sure likely not much of an issue if setup right with brakes. If you planned to take the family and luggage then you will probably be over the GVWR of the vehicle.


So you can't just take those numbers as you will without considering the difference in trailers.

[chris86vw]

I'm on my way right now to buy a 20' travel lite camper...

I'd be more concerned with the frontal area of that trailer and what that will do for the overall drag on the vehicle than the weight itself. This can be just as much of a consideration as the weight itself.

[jkag]

I have the same question and have been wanting to start a towing log so others can help me figure out how much I can tow and I will provide a first data point. I just got a Justin hitch and planned a trip toto see my daughter in Denver via the Black Hills. I was initially planning on a ~3,000lb UVW, >300lb hitch weight trailer but chickened out and ended up with a ~2,100lb GVW pop-up with 2-300lb hitch weight. My chickening was based on the idea of my 1st tow trip to be into the mountains with a heavy trailer. Also, I can speak to the drag issue as I had 2 bikes and a Yakima on the roof of the Allroad.

That said, from what I've read chris86vw is right on about hitch weight but in addition to frontal area is lateral area which can lead to swaying in x-winds. From what I can tell, with the drop down style hitch, you will not be able to use a weight distributing hitch so optimised hitch weight (10-15% of GVW) and a brake controler will be needed for stability.

The car: 2004 Allroad 6MT, RS4 clutch & flywheel, APR Stage 1 (315HP, 375TQ), 17Z brakes w red stuff pads, coilovers with 14kg spriings and Hochkis swaybars + brake controller available for trailers w brakes

The load: 2,100lb GVW pop-up (2011 Jayco 1007), no brakes, <300lb hitch weigh, 2 bikes and a small Yakima on the roof of the Allroad

The results:
1) Car pulled the weight easily, definitiely took longer to stop no problems 2,500mi with a LOT of hills (Black Hills and West Iowa) and a general ~4,500ft increase in elevation
2) beware criuse control, down shift for almost all uphills at almost all speeds
3) even when the speed limit is 80, that may be too fast. Fine at 75 in 5th but >80 drag seemed a big factor, 6th bogged down with a slight uphill

All in all I'm ready to try a trailer at a bit over 3,000lb GVW with a brake controller on the flat lands with a few hills. However, until I try this I will hold off on a trip over the Rockies (Yosemite is on my bucket list)

[tacosrdelicioso]

I’m more interested in the limits of towing on air?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jkag]

I would think the only difference between air and coilover would be the sensativity to hitch weight.

[LakeTahoeQuattr]

I’m more interested in the limits of towing on air?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Towing on air? You mean airbags?


One thing I noticed and hate about the cruise control on the ar is that it seems to flutter boost when it is trying to pick the proper load. In other words, when im going up a mountain at 70mph towing my old jetskis it would demand load and then shoot the boost up and back back down, up, down, etc.

It was not able to hold a constant boost that was needed which was about 6psi...I can hold that steady with my foot and maintain a constant speed while towing up a hill, but cruise cant do it at ALL! My load was only about 2K and almost no tongue weight

Anyone else experience this annoyance?

[G0to60]

I’m more interested in the limits of towing on air?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bonus for towing with air is that it self levels which is really nice. No saggy rear end.

[chris86vw]

I’m more interested in the limits of towing on air?

There wouldn't be any limits for towing on air, tractor trailers use air suspension, the new rams come with them from the factory. As mentioned it helps level the vehicle which is a positive feature. I remember a kid in my boy scout dad had a grand marquis wagon on air, fill it with kids hook the the trailer and let it level off before driving away.

As long as you have not exceeded GVWR with your tongue weight and occupants it wouldn't know the difference.

[chris86vw]

One thing I noticed and hate about the cruise control on the ar is that it seems to flutter boost when it is trying to pick the proper load.

Anyone else experience this annoyance?

Was this with non stock turbos? I've found that with modified turbos the load for cruise is rarely done correctly and they will do exactly what you described even when not towing but just going up a steep grade. Between non stock turbo cars and TDIs that got worse mpg using cruise I just gave up on using it years ago.

[LakeTahoeQuattr]

Makes sense. No it was with K04s and old tuner. Now new tuner and different turbos, same thing. You are correct, it will also do it in 6th gear low rpm going up a hill. Boost up n down. Cruise works fine flat lol.

Ill try mentioning it to the tuner.

[julex]

The problem with boost is simply that the load demand vs what really gets delivered is way off due to tune load underscaling caused by MAF set up limitations of traditional tune. In order for engine to not hit software limitations of load level, the MAF readout is mapped in a way where the engine thinks it is operating at anywhere between 60-80% (depends on tuner) of actual engine output. So when cruise control comes and asks for 60% of load... ecu increases the load (by engaging the turbos) except that 60% is really 100% so it way overshoots what it really needs and now it coasts without any load until speed falls below and here we go again.

It can probably be remediated by adjusting cruise load map with your tune but I am not sure if such map even exists... it should.

The proper way to fix this would be to get a new "5120 hack" tune with a new MAP (pressure sensor) that can read properly boost over 20psi (yet another limit of stock set up). Such tune is done the right way where the car can actually read real boost pressure as well as use true engine load for calculations so adjusting obscure maps like cruise load control is not needed.

[LakeTahoeQuattr]

Yea I noticed that there is a c hair line where load increases rapidly with little change in accelerator. What you described perfectly puts it into words.

Is the 5210 hack where you run a 4bar map and no maf? I am currently tuned for and running the tdi 3Bar..

Sry op for thread jack

[kleinewunder]

I only found class 1 hitches for my 2008 A4 saloon. They are rated for 2000 lbs. Would love to find a class 3. I wouldn't want to pull a camper trailer with a Class 1.
[/URL]

I can't speak directly to the sedan but I have experience with the B7 A4 Avant. It is rated at about 1,800 lbs in the US and about 2,800 lbs in Europe. As Chris said, the main reason for that is the US rating assumes a tongue weight of about 10% while the European rating assumes a tongue weight of about 5%. I believe the difference in % tongue weights is just a function of speed. Autobahns notwithstanding, we generally tow at higher speeds in the US than they do in Europe and thus are more at risk for trailer sway which, to a point, can be offset by increasing the % tongue weight.

If you want to tow more than 2,000 lbs with your A4 you will have to get a hitch from Europe. I think the main brands are Westfalia and Bosal. You also will need to keep tongue weight around 10% of the US spec or 5% of the European spec for the sedan. If your actual % tongue weight is approaching 5% you probably will need to limit your highway speeds.

[julex]

Yea I noticed that there is a c hair line where load increases rapidly with little change in accelerator. What you described perfectly puts it into words.

Is the 5210 hack where you run a 4bar map and no maf? I am currently tuned for and running the tdi 3Bar..

Sry op for thread jack

"5120" refers to doubling the possible load readout coming from MAP sensor. MAF is still up and operational. If you have 3bar MAP then you should have the proper tune except where it might still be old "underscaled" one... there are many ways it can be done (bad, better and right )only your tuner will know.

What you describe might also be a crappy pedal to load mapping which in stock form is quite bad and has very little linearity. The map converts % of gas pedal and current rpms into driver requested load. At the low rpms it is mapped to give large requested load, the higher the rpms the less load per % of gas pedal increase. It quite literally sucks imho. I changed mine to the kind of logarithmic curve so that I have very good control and low/med and med-high loads and it only goes way up near 100% of pedal. I figured that I wanted better control up to about 20psi and above that WOT is good anyway .

Cruise control might be mapped into pedal % request which then maps to load. This would explain (if your gas pedal is so touchy) why you have problems with cruise. But again, tuner.

[Bordom]

Has anyone towed anything closer to the weight of the Allroad? I wanna tow my summer car (89 Pontiac Trans Am) about 4km. Using a full car trailer the car will be about 6000lb and way over the Allroads curb weight (4000lb).

However, I can grab one of those little car dollies and be just under the weight of the AR. I'm not going far and not going faster than 40kph/25mph.



Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

[LakeTahoeQuattr]

Has anyone towed anything closer to the weight of the Allroad? I wanna tow my summer car (89 Pontiac Trans Am) about 4km. Using a full car trailer the car will be about 6000lb and way over the Allroads curb weight (4000lb).

However, I can grab one of those little car dollies and be just under the weight of the AR. I'm not going far and not going faster than 40kph/25mph.



Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

Just based off the dynamics of a tow vs pace trailer, I would never tow 6K with an allroad unless it was short distances. Id tow 5K max ever with my ar. Those corners will run you off the road with that much weight

[patbastard]

Just based off the dynamics of a tow vs pace trailer, I would never tow 6K with an allroad unless it was short distances. Id tow 5K max ever with my ar. Those corners will run you off the road with that much weight

That would be my concern. Moving the trailer won't be the problem, stopping and controlling it will.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[Audi-Elm]

That's right at the limit for the US towing limit BUT they are rated at 5000lb in Europe so take those numbers as you will.

I've towed my wife's GTI when the fuel pump died and that weighs in at right around 3000lb. It handled it no problem even without any trailer brakes.

Audi Towing GTI_zpsgldpocjn by Wayne Larson, on Flickr

Most European cars are down-rated in towing capacity here in the States, one reason being that the trailer axles are offset to the rear and therefor increasing the tongue weight immensely. Most sedans / Avants are limited to a tongue weight of 85 Kg (187 lbs.) and not 5% or 10%, as mentioned by others. This limit is not variable because of airbags or automatic transmission.
A car like the A6 can pull a maximum of 2100 Kg (4629lbs.) in Europe but not in the States, because of not having the correct hitch availability and because of the construction of the trailer as mentioned above.
The only way a A6 can pull nearly 5000 lbs., is if you buy a hitch in Europe ( >$350 incl. shipping) and load the trailer with the load being directly over the axles, meaning, the front of the trailer is empty, otherwise the car will be damaged and at the same time is a safety hazard !

[rah253]

Most European cars are down-rated in towing capacity here in the States, one reason being that the trailer axles are offset to the rear and therefor increasing the tongue weight immensely. Most sedans / Avants are limited to a tongue weight of 85 Kg (187 lbs.) and not 5% or 10%, as mentioned by others. This limit is not variable because of airbags or automatic transmission.
A car like the A6 can pull a maximum of 2100 Kg (4629lbs.) in Europe but not in the States, because of not having the correct hitch availability and because of the construction of the trailer as mentioned above.
The only way a A6 can pull nearly 5000 lbs., is if you buy a hitch in Europe ( >$350 incl. shipping) and load the trailer with the load being directly over the axles, meaning, the front of the trailer is empty, otherwise the car will be damaged and at the same time is a safety hazard !

You seem to be pretty knowledgeable in this matter. i am picking up an Allroad soon (working on a deal right now) and we plan on using it on vacation also to tow our motorcycles. I did notice that most trailers here in the states will be carrying more of the weight forward of the front axle, rather it is a motorcycle specific trailer or a utility trailer with installed motorcycle tire chalks. The trailers i am looking at are in between 350 and 450lbs and the bikes, fully fueled are 425 and 500lbs respectfully. I am assuming that with a total weight not exceeding 1500LBS, even if the bigger part of the weight is going to be forward of the trailer axle, we should be good and not have any issues correct? sorry for the long drown out question, just trying to make sure of specs prior to purchasing a trailer.

[Bordom]

You seem to be pretty knowledgeable in this matter. i am picking up an Allroad soon (working on a deal right now) and we plan on using it on vacation also to tow our motorcycles. I did notice that most trailers here in the states will be carrying more of the weight forward of the front axle, rather it is a motorcycle specific trailer or a utility trailer with installed motorcycle tire chalks. The trailers i am looking at are in between 350 and 450lbs and the bikes, fully fueled are 425 and 500lbs respectfully. I am assuming that with a total weight not exceeding 1500LBS, even if the bigger part of the weight is going to be forward of the trailer axle, we should be good and not have any issues correct? sorry for the long drown out question, just trying to make sure of specs prior to purchasing a trailer.

Having towed motorcycles with my Allroad before, as well as a 6ftx12ft enclosed trailer fully loaded, I wouldn't have any issues with that weight.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

[rah253]

Having towed motorcycles with my Allroad before, as well as a 6ftx12ft enclosed trailer fully loaded, I wouldn't have any issues with that weight.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

Awesome good to know, thanks.

[rah253]

Having towed motorcycles with my Allroad before, as well as a 6ftx12ft enclosed trailer fully loaded, I wouldn't have any issues with that weight.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

Here is another question for you actually. I have not yet installed a trailer hitch on the car and the only thing i found for the allroad is a class I hitch set up to install on the car. I know that they are rated for up to 2000LB and it is the most i would tow but most trailers have the 2 inch ball receiver which who need an extender from 1.1/4 to 2. Would that still work or should i try to have someone custom install a class II hitch set up on the car?

[Bordom]

Here is another question for you actually. I have not yet installed a trailer hitch on the car and the only thing i found for the allroad is a class I hitch set up to install on the car. I know that they are rated for up to 2000LB and it is the most i would tow but most trailers have the 2 inch ball receiver which who need an extender from 1.1/4 to 2. Would that still work or should i try to have someone custom install a class II hitch set up on the car?

I would personally look for a factory hitch. Something about drilling into the spare tire well and towing a couple thousand lbs doesn't seem right.

I don't see any issue with the extenders as it should be ok. Though depending on your tow weight, I'd keep it within the hitch rating.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

[rah253]

I would personally look for a factory hitch. Something about drilling into the spare tire well and towing a couple thousand lbs doesn't seem right.

I don't see any issue with the extenders as it should be ok. Though depending on your tow weight, I'd keep it within the hitch rating.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

I appreciate the input thank you. It wont be over 2000lbs at anytime anyways and you are absolutely right when it comes the class I drilling through the wheel well, it would seem to be weak really. I'll be looking for a factory one, i rather be bolted to the frame. Thanks again.

[Audi-Elm]

You seem to be pretty knowledgeable in this matter. i am picking up an Allroad soon (working on a deal right now) and we plan on using it on vacation also to tow our motorcycles. I did notice that most trailers here in the states will be carrying more of the weight forward of the front axle, rather it is a motorcycle specific trailer or a utility trailer with installed motorcycle tire chalks. The trailers i am looking at are in between 350 and 450lbs and the bikes, fully fueled are 425 and 500lbs respectfully. I am assuming that with a total weight not exceeding 1500LBS, even if the bigger part of the weight is going to be forward of the trailer axle, we should be good and not have any issues correct? sorry for the long drown out question, just trying to make sure of specs prior to purchasing a trailer.

Sorry for not replying sooner. The main thing to remember is that you don't get over the 187 lb limit of your tongue weight. If you're going to use an extender to get your 2" ball you'll also have to recalculate your allowable tongue weight if your getting close to your 187 lb. Your total weight depends in part on the terrain, the calculation is based on a max of 8% slope, at 12% you're going to have 440 lb less. Also, just to clarify, you can only get the factory hitch in Europe, unfortunately there is no possibility here in the States.

[jofomo]

Just jumping in with some questions. Is there a onboard connector for a brake controller on an 05 Allroad? Can one be connected to the rear trailer light connector?

[LakeTahoeQuattr]

There is nota brake controller anywhere on the ar and if you have trailer ebrakes then you will need to install your own brake controller.

I made my own custom harness at one point for $20 to plug into the back of the pre-wired snap lock plug under the bumper cover. The OEM connector was OBS and ~$100 used on ebay. I was informed that I was to get a "trailer" or "towing" illumination on my cluster but I never did. Supposed to get turn signals on the cluster as well that correspond to the trailer, never happened. Maybe I needed the OEM cable?

I know the running lights, blinkers, brake lights on the trailer all worked fine..

I was only towing jetskis = ~2200 lbs w/ trailer so wasnt necessary for brakes on there. The stock brakes that come on the ar are not very kind to stopping anything heavier than the ar fyi.

I ordered my 4K/400tongue hitch with a STD 2" vertical receiver from a forum member here JustMtnB44. Great hitch, got sold with the car. Possibly the owner of my car now will sell someone the hitch if he is not using it.

[4xaudi]

I towed a B5S4 on a u haul trailer around 90 miles. stage 3 allroad with 17z brakes. I knew it was back there and planned for it, but it didn't affect anything except gas mileage.

[landfill]

^^^I’ve been interested in this.
Is the allroad capable of pulling
other Audi’s & vw’s on a drive-on
trailer?

Debating a small pickup vs an
allroad.

[Audi-Elm]

^^^I’ve been interested in this.
Is the allroad capable of pulling
other Audi’s & vw’s on a drive-on
trailer?

Debating a small pickup vs an
allroad.

It depends on the hitch you would be using, normally not with a US hitch. Here's my explanation from above:
Most European cars are down-rated in towing capacity here in the States, one reason being that the trailer axles are offset to the rear and therefor increasing the tongue weight immensely. Most sedans / Avants are limited to a tongue weight of 85 Kg (187 lbs.) and not 5% or 10%, as mentioned by others. This limit is not variable because of airbags or automatic transmission.
A car like the A6 can pull a maximum of 2100 Kg (4629lbs.) in Europe but not in the States, because of not having the correct hitch availability and because of the construction of the trailer as mentioned above.
The only way a A6 can pull nearly 5000 lbs., is if you buy a hitch in Europe ( >$350 incl. shipping) and load the trailer with the load being directly over the axles, meaning, the front of the trailer is empty, otherwise the car will be damaged and at the same time is a safety hazard !

[rah253]

Sorry for not replying sooner. The main thing to remember is that you don't get over the 187 lb limit of your tongue weight. If you're going to use an extender to get your 2" ball you'll also have to recalculate your allowable tongue weight if your getting close to your 187 lb. Your total weight depends in part on the terrain, the calculation is based on a max of 8% slope, at 12% you're going to have 440 lb less. Also, just to clarify, you can only get the factory hitch in Europe, unfortunately there is no possibility here in the States.

Ok thank you for that! It does make sense, something to watch out for before choosing the hitch for the car. I am going to be shopping for a trailer soon, so i will be looking at the tongue length and where the axle sits compare to the load on the trailer as well. I'm trying to find the best hitch for the car but i would like it to be hidden or up more as i wont be using it more then a few times a year really.

[rah253]

I would personally look for a factory hitch. Something about drilling into the spare tire well and towing a couple thousand lbs doesn't seem right.

I don't see any issue with the extenders as it should be ok. Though depending on your tow weight, I'd keep it within the hitch rating.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

Thank you. I hear someone selling European trailer hitches, fully integrated underneath the plastic bumper and hidden when not in use, but i don't think it would fit trailers here with the trailer ball they have over there... I do like the euro set up, but i got to check on the measurments first.

[Audi-Elm]

Thank you. I hear someone selling European trailer hitches, fully integrated underneath the plastic bumper and hidden when not in use, but i don't think it would fit trailers here with the trailer ball they have over there... I do like the euro set up, but i got to check on the measurments first.

The European "trailer ball" is 50 mm (only one size) and a 2 inch ball equals 50.8 mm, this means that it is 0.8 mm smaller or 0.032 inches, which in turn is not worth mentioning.

[rah253]

The European "trailer ball" is 50 mm (only one size) and a 2 inch ball equals 50.8 mm, this means that it is 0.8 mm smaller or 0.032 inches, which in turn is not worth mentioning.

ok so meaning that the difference being so minimal it shouldn't be an issue i'm assuming? Thanks for answering all those questions by the way.

[quattrosnrabbit]

Ok thank you for that! It does make sense, something to watch out for before choosing the hitch for the car. I am going to be shopping for a trailer soon, so i will be looking at the tongue length and where the axle sits compare to the load on the trailer as well. I'm trying to find the best hitch for the car but i would like it to be hidden or up more as i wont be using it more then a few times a year really.

My contact still has two OEM Votex/Westfalia hitches available, assuming you haven't already decided/purchased a hitch.
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/855970

[Audi-Elm]

ok so meaning that the difference being so minimal it shouldn't be an issue i'm assuming? Thanks for answering all those questions by the way.

surething, anytime. Actually the 2" ball is only 50,5mm and not 50.8mm, I measured it instead of trusting the data.