Anybody ever consider switching to a Domestic muscle car? Charger SRT 392?

[mgert31907]

I swapped to a Estroil Blue III F30 335i Xdrive MSport out of my Brilliant Red B6 A4 Avant, I'm a tech for Audi, and while I was seriously considering a C7 S6, I got scared off by some of the engine issues that are starting to crop up. I would've considered a B8 if it wasn't for the fact that they are supercharged. Wanted something boosted that I could throw a larger turbo into and be done with. (The B6 was making 621whp, the B8's won't be coming close to that without throwing serious coin at the car)

Militant please elaborate on these problems with the S6 motor. I am intrigued with the RS7 and that will probably be my next car. It has a variant of that same 4.0TT. Give us fellow members the insider info please sir.

[pdqgp]

Haven't seen one get into the 11's stock but there's always more to it than power.

In terms of a daily, the only Dodge I would drive would be a Hellcat Charger just because of it's raw power and sound. Otherwise, it's just a $30k Dodge in terms of build quality, finish, etc. I've detailed several and haven't really been that impressed other than power and sound. Rolling down the road the details I bicker about go away for sure so it's okay in my book. If I upgrade from the S4 there are several options on the table but AWD is likely going to still be one of them as I live and drive in states with Snow and need / want that capability. Without it IMO you're limited on the fun-factor quotient in anything but ideal conditions. I really enjoy my S4 in even less than ideal conditions thanks to it's capability.

Personally, a Tesla S but more thank likely an S7 would be on my Sedan list. I am intrigued and very interested in the Hellcat Cherokee though. I could see rocking one for a daily.

[ojmcneill]

So I actually used to own quite a few SRT8s. I had a 300C SRT8, Charger SRT8 and a limited edition Charger SRT8 Superbee, which I ultimately traded for my first audi, an audi a5. I traded her for my current 13 s4. I'll say that for the money, the SRT8s are awesome cars and so much fun. They're so much easier and cheaper to mod as well. I guess everything's relative though because you pay more for SRT8s and to mod them than you do for mustangs and Camaros. I'd probably trade for a newer mustang though as I've already been through the Dodge/Chryslers. All mine were top notch quality with no problems. During summer months, awesome cars with loads of power. During sketchy weather, you really need to pay attention. I had an older jeep I would drive whenever there was snow on the ground however I did take mine out a few times and while fun, you can easily get yourself in a lot of trouble really quickly with the power and rear wheel drive.
I loved each one of mine though and I'd never waive someone off from purchasing an SRT8.

[4DOORFUN]

I will likely switch back to a muscle car in the future, but it will be a while. I've owned two manual transmission Mustang GT's as daily drivers. They both were more fun than my S4 and my S4 is the faster car. The exhaust sound alone made them more fun. As a side note, I believe anything doing 13's in the quarter mile is fast enough for a daily driver. The Mustangs were actually very reliable and I drove them hard.

However, the winters sucked in those cars and the interior design was nothing special. While not a muscle car, I also owned a manual trans Infiniti G37S Sedan. That car was also more fun than my S4. It handled much better. It was RWD, lighter, and had quick, old school steering. But again, the winters were tough in that car and the interior was nothing special. So that brings me to my S4. Steering feel is extremely numb and the car feels unbalanced in weight distribution. I knew those things going in as I test drove the S4 numerous times before making a purchase. I still like the S4 very much and if you are going to give up a manual trans, the DSG is outstanding. I truly don't miss rowing my own gears these days as I do lots of local driving. I love the S4 power band. So much useable power without having to wind out the motor and the overall quality of the car is fantastic.

[cobrario]

Militant please elaborate on these problems with the S6 motor. I am intrigued with the RS7 and that will probably be my next car. It has a variant of that same 4.0TT. Give us fellow members the insider info please sir.

No problems here, like any car I've heard of some isolated issues but you can check the C7 forum, there's nothing widespread that I've seen. I highly recommend getting an RS, I too came from a B8 and the RS7 is just next level, the power is not really comparable to anything the 3.0T can offer- especially when stage 1 or 2- it's crazy fast. Good luck

[drew4392]

It's technically not "domestic", but a buddy picked up a 2017 Chevy SS /aka Holden SS-V Redline, and is really enjoying it. Even got the 6 speed. I'd pick that over a frickin Dodge any day. Looked a lot better after he pulled all the bowties off and rebadged it as a Holden.


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Ahh forgot about the SS. Even though it's discontinued, people really do love it. Just as heavy as the Charger, so no worse in that category. Great brakes, great suspension...

[onlyaudis]

be hard for me to want to own a Chrysler product, especially coming from Audi. Yes, the cars look decent, and they have some very fast models. But if you do some research, they basically come in last place in any comparison by every source--car mags, Consumer reports reliability and customer satisfaction, JD Powers, resale value, etc. These days, Audi is at the top, so you'd basically be going from the top rated car company to the worst.

[Thurston]

Anyone over 40 years old with a muscle car screams mid-life crisis. If you want a classy muscle car, get the last generation Benz C63 AMG.

really? maybe so. I def. feel that way about a few Porsche owners.

[Thurston]

I chased down this Challenger Hellcat on the track... he was pushing it pretty hard

Here's another angle from an S2000 (which I think is a great choice for a track car)

fun video. Got em in the twisties, go figure but he never was able to catch back up on the straights. Very nice.

[Street Nasty]

If I had stupid money and more space a HellCat would be fun but no stupid money here. If Audi won't come out with a RS4 I will likely switch brands the next go around. The Caddy seems to be a good alternative for the domestic choice but I will see then. I figure three more years to change my mind, if Audi fails to deliver.

Why not just get an rs5 sportback? Rs4 is an Avant. We will never get avants again =(.

[TexasDfwS4]

4 door sleeper for this 55 year old thanks. RS5 is nice but I like the look of the sedans.

[mjr034]

I love my S5, but like this thread goes.. I've sunk way too much money into for questionably small returns.
Not that I havent enjoyed it, but next car will be domestic. I need more american V8 in my life.

[RSLRS71]

i went the opposite direction (up not down). eventually you get tired of just paying for american muscle....and begin to desire something other than a plastic/cheap interior that may look good but only lasts 3-5 years. I demanded performance primarily, but also wanted a nice interior and quality craftsmanship. nowadays, a nice hellcat or even "track hawk jeep are appealing, but with the price markup, cant justify it at all.

[jimrobbington]

I couldn't do it. For one, I live at 6000+ ft elevation, and N/A American muscle performs poorly up here. My stage 2 2006 A4 beat a Charger R/T and my stage 1 2012 S4 was dead even with a Scat Pack Challenger. It would have to be boosted somehow to get the performance one would expect here. Even so, I couldn't do it. Not my style.

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[A8LOOONG]

Might sound crazy...

I began with a 335i in '09, and have had two S4s, an S3, SQ5..... and for some reason... the domestic scene is appealing to me.

I spent stupid amounts of money on modifying all of the above cars. Upwards of $6-9k on each S4... just to get a reasonable amount of near top-tier performance (respectively, speaking).

Charger 392 SRT... almost 500HP... amazing brakes... killer suspension... high 11s out of the box... respectable track performance despite being a fatty... respectable interior quality....

Thoughts?? Anybody else tease the idea?

I'm a Chevy and Audi guy and love what each offers. I drive A8s, most recently traded in an S8 V10 for an A8L 4.0t. It has extreme comfort and that V8 TT, is amazing on power and mileage. My GM cars are a modified 1965 Impala SS 6 speed manual with LS3 swap. It's loud, stinky and fast -- rough to say the least. My other is a 2007 Corvette Z06 -- quick and refined. My point is, if you want one car only, and you're looking at large cars with V8s like the Charger, go for the A8 series. You'll be upset with how cheap (comparitively) the American muscle cars' interiors are. You'll make more power and better mileage by a MILE too.

Thanks!
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[BozMan-S4]

I'm a Chevy and Audi guy and love what each offers. I drive A8s, most recently traded in an S8 V10 for an A8L 4.0t. It has extreme comfort and that V8 TT, is amazing on power and mileage. My GM cars are a modified 1965 Impala SS 6 speed manual with LS3 swap. It's loud, stinky and fast -- rough to say the least. My other is a 2007 Corvette Z06 -- quick and refined. My point is, if you want one car only, and you're looking at large cars with V8s like the Charger, go for the A8 series. You'll be upset with how cheap (comparitively) the American muscle cars' interiors are. You'll make more power and better mileage by a MILE too.

Thanks!
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I have the legacy ‘09 STS-V and it’s an amazing “Muscle”, “Luxury”, “Sports Sedan”. Considering there were only 95 made, handful have been totaled and 20 exported I decided to keep mods minimal. I added Spectre Stage I&II intake and had the 1 real shop in the country tune it. It’s making north of 500hp and puts down the power VERY well. On newer tires I have almost no wheel spin, the Spectre unleashed the SC whine to be heard from a mile away. It’s always fun sitting in a sleeper car and then scaring the hell out of the next car when the SC kicks in lol. Awesome car, hand assembled 1hr away from me (Lansing MI) and IMO a style that is still relevant after 9yrs. I think cadillac is a great way to get “European-like” (don’t beat me up for that statement) performance with good ole American muscle. IMG_0194.JPG


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[TROTTERS4]

I've owned a few American muscle/sports cars. The Corvette Z06, Camaro ZL1 type track monsters are the only ones worth owning. The rest all leave something to be desired even if they have great "performance numbers". Throw the Shelby GT350 in there as well. The Dodge cars are polished turds, with big engines. Nothing more.

[Nitrousbird]

The S4 is my wife's, as I have a modded 335i. That said, I will most likely be replacing my 335i with a '16+ Camaro SS (2SS with Mag Ride). Most likely in the next year or so. '17+ 2SS 1LE if I can find the right deal - 6MT regardless.

'16+ really upgraded the interior, exterior looks nicer and shed a couple hundred pounds over the previous body style. Keeps up with a M4 around the track even in non-1LE form. Very mod friendly and a large aftermarket support. The whole "American cars can't handle" BS is just that - BS.

Will the interior be as nice as a B8 S4/S5? Not as nice, but nicer than my 335. Price is key - I'm seeing '16 2SS cars going for low 30's with under 20k on the clock. That's a lot of performance for the dollar.

[Kiggy74]

I switched from a 2006 Corvette, which I loved, but I wanted a more complete package, plus that was an extra toy car for awhile. I'd own another Vette in the future. As good as the Chargers and Challengers look, I would never buy Dodge. Quality just isn't anywhere in the same league.


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Driving an Audi S4, disparaging Dodge for quality, now that's some funny stuff.

I've owned 4 Ram pickups, with a BMW or S4 mixed in between to try something new. In 4 Dodge Rams totaling >300K miles never once did I have a catalytic converter, transmission, water pump, oil seal, etc etc fail, but these are apparently common maintenance items on Audis. Even if I had, those trucks have great warranties. Granted, these are two very distinctly different vehicles, but 5.7L Hemi creates just as many grins as my S4 with a hell of a lot less hassle/worry.

[pdqgp]

The S4 is my wife's, as I have a modded 335i. That said, I will most likely be replacing my 335i with a '16+ Camaro SS (2SS with Mag Ride). Most likely in the next year or so. '17+ 2SS 1LE if I can find the right deal - 6MT regardless.

'16+ really upgraded the interior, exterior looks nicer and shed a couple hundred pounds over the previous body style. Keeps up with a M4 around the track even in non-1LE form. Very mod friendly and a large aftermarket support. The whole "American cars can't handle" BS is just that - BS.

Will the interior be as nice as a B8 S4/S5? Not as nice, but nicer than my 335. Price is key - I'm seeing '16 2SS cars going for low 30's with under 20k on the clock. That's a lot of performance for the dollar.

Joe, get your ass back on CR already :)

[rolsmi1]

There's no doubt that the quality and reliability of domestics has increased substantially over the years. You can get 500hp relatively cheap (by German standards), but IMO no domestic muscle has the "It" factor. I want a car that turns heads, and domestics just don't. My B8 still literally got stares and second looks even after it was seven years old. Chargers, Challengers, Vettes just don't get that attention. I paid $74k for the M, and I could've had my choice of high HP muscle domestics for kind of outlay. I just love German engineering. My only choices were Audi, M, or Merc. I will say that I looked at the Camaro ZL1, but refuse to pay guzzler tax.

[dinkman]

i just came from a GT350. that car got way more head turns than any audi not called an R8 ever will. for under $60k new it also came with 526hp from a NA 5.2liter flat plane crank engine that revved to 8.4k and sounded like the fire breathing dragon from game of thrones and destroyed most cars from germany on a road course nearly twice its price. it wasnt nearly as refined and a pain in the ass daily driver hence why i got rid of it but anyone who still thinks american muscle cars are the same POS dodge/ford/chevy used to produce in the 90's is kidding themselves, they have come a long way. for anyone who wants a change of pace from german cars, its a great side step to take

[Silver Streakin]

I had a CTS-V between Audis. It was a nice change of pace for a few years, but I’ve had 2 S4s since and likley wouldn’t go back to the muscle car scene. It was a monster tuned with Kooks headers and cats, Corsa exhaust, and a low end coilovers... it wasn’t enough rear tire to put it down. Even with Blizzaks, some snow days were impossible.

[Dirt]

i just came from a GT350. that car got way more head turns than any audi not called an R8 ever will. for under $60k new it also came with 526hp from a NA 5.2liter flat plane crank engine that revved to 8.4k and sounded like the fire breathing dragon from game of thrones and destroyed most cars from germany on a road course nearly twice its price. it wasnt nearly as refined and a pain in the ass daily driver hence why i got rid of it but anyone who still thinks american muscle cars are the same POS dodge/ford/chevy used to produce in the 90's is kidding themselves, they have come a long way. for anyone who wants a change of pace from german cars, its a great side step to take

This x 1000. I had a 2013 Procharged Boss 302 making 550 hp to the tires. Very similar experience and agree completely.

[fstr n u]

Jesus...this thread is all over the board.

1. Domestic sports cars (everyone can admit they are no longer muscle cars) have improved significantly. The Camaro SS and Ford GT's are pretty impressive in stock form. The Mopars (a good friend owns a 2006 SRT 8 Charger modified) are heavy and not worth looking at. The engines sound amazing...but Rita McNeil on stilettos is still a porker no matter how well she sings....sorry y'all.

2. If you live in an area without winter conditions (snow/ice/subzero temps), buy a rwd car like the Shelby GT350 or Camaro ZL1 and have fun. If you live in an area with wintery conditions, find an S4/S5 with manual trans, do basic mods and have a blast with your ride

- - - Updated - - -

My 1998 Turbo Camaro with 710hp/tq at the wheels has beat the shit out of tuned Nissan GTR's and my car runs a 6spd MT....you don't need awd to have fun...

[Dirt]

The Mopars (a good friend owns a 2006 SRT 8 Charger modified) are heavy and not worth looking at. The engines sound amazing...but Rita McNeil on stilettos is still a porker no matter how well she sings....sorry y'all.

Your friend’s Charger is 12 years old. Things have changed quite a bit. Granted, the Chargers and Challengers are heavy compared to Mustangs or Camaros, but they have the power to compensate now. Besides, the S4 is far from a lightweight.

[4kqlifer]

This is a good convo. I have been watching the old retro reviews on YouTube for some of the old iconic Ferraris and such. For instance, the Testarosa is 380 hp and was considered crazy fast back then. Now, you can get a standard mustang with that power. So does hp really matter above a certain point? When I think of my s4 having "only 345 hp" it makes me think about whether hp numbers actually matter. It makes me think about the whole experience. The look, finish, driveability,and whether it keeps that over time. Does it use the power well and is it manageable? I've had a ton of Audis over my life and they all have their plus and minus'. The one thing that has stayed consistent is a great aesthetic, and a very nice finish. I have a GMC truck that has been extremely reliable and low maintenance. But I don't look forward to driving it and I don't ever catch myself looking at it with heart eyes. Could I get the same reliability in a Vette...probably. I looked at the new Vette's and Camaro's the other day at the dealer. I can see their appeal but I could never see myself driving one. The first few iterations of the Vette are the only one's I'll look twice at.

[mavz]

This is a good convo. I have been watching the old retro reviews on YouTube for some of the old iconic Ferraris and such. For instance, the Testarosa is 380 hp and was considered crazy fast back then. Now, you can get a standard mustang with that power. So does hp really matter above a certain point? When I think of my s4 having "only 345 hp" it makes me think about whether hp numbers actually matter. It makes me think about the whole experience. The look, finish, driveability,and whether it keeps that over time. Does it use the power well and is it manageable? I've had a ton of Audis over my life and they all have their plus and minus'. The one thing that has stayed consistent is a great aesthetic, and a very nice finish. I have a GMC truck that has been extremely reliable and low maintenance. But I don't look forward to driving it and I don't ever catch myself looking at it with heart eyes. Could I get the same reliability in a Vette...probably. I looked at the new Vette's and Camaro's the other day at the dealer. I can see their appeal but I could never see myself driving one. The first few iterations of the Vette are the only one's I'll look twice at.

I think you bring up a few good points. If all you care about are 1/4 mile times then there's nothing wrong with American. However, you aren't getting the same quality. I was thinking about getting a C7 Z06 as my next car but I drove a regular Stingray for a couple of days and I honestly hated it. The performance was great, but as a car to live with... not that great. If you want a complete package, you'd probably have to go German (and pay a premium). If you're willing to make sacrifices then you can go American (1LE, GT350, etc) or Japanese (GT-R).

[AvusPdx]

This is savage geese's review on the hellcat. I used to know him from the gt86 forums a long time ago when the car first came out. He became some youtube car critic.
He's pretty knowledgeable, a bit dry but I enjoy dry sense of humor.

Its "fun" in a ridiculous way but every review he puts the car on the lift to see whats underneath. The car's chassis and body is out dated, feels like a boat and doesn't stop. Also interior is absolute garbage.

[brs2c]

A weird/stupid thing I don't like about the S4, is that unlike when you are driving a muscle car or rice rocket- nobody tries to pick a fight when you drive a S4. When I drove my old Eclipse- everyone thought it was rice, and pulled up revving and wanting to race. So fun to then blow their doors off.

Now, I'm not nearly as fast, but I still wanna play a little. I'm not really the dude who pulls up and starts revving. So, nothing really ever happens, now. I miss that :(

[Venumous]

The S4 is my wife's, as I have a modded 335i. That said, I will most likely be replacing my 335i with a '16+ Camaro SS (2SS with Mag Ride). Most likely in the next year or so. '17+ 2SS 1LE if I can find the right deal - 6MT regardless.

'16+ really upgraded the interior, exterior looks nicer and shed a couple hundred pounds over the previous body style. Keeps up with a M4 around the track even in non-1LE form. Very mod friendly and a large aftermarket support. The whole "American cars can't handle" BS is just that - BS.

Will the interior be as nice as a B8 S4/S5? Not as nice, but nicer than my 335. Price is key - I'm seeing '16 2SS cars going for low 30's with under 20k on the clock. That's a lot of performance for the dollar.

The handling argument is dead. The only cars that can't handle are the two tanks that Dodge puts out. The Mustang and especially the Camaro are closer to sports cars than Muscle Cars today. The 1LE is an astounding handler with only few super cars ahead of it.

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[kobrian85]

I may be an outlier but I live in metro Detroit, so I did consider a Scat pack or SRT (non-Hellcat) but they are literally everywhere. My new S4 is going to be a daily driver. Yes, a 392 would be fine in the winter with proper tires but I went with the Audi to have a nice daily driver and something not super common. They do sound amazing though.

This is exactly how I feel too.

I had a Challenger SRT as a rental a few months ago. It sounded fantastic, and it was a quick car for its size. But it's a giant fatty compared to the S4. it's common AF in Denver. The lighting is trash. The interior is meh at best. I just wasn't overly impressed with the total package.

Ultimately, I want something more unique (which I get varies by opinion). Right now, the only American Muscle that I'd consider is the Chevy SS or a CTS-V Wagon, but I'd still put a B7 RS4 above both of them.

[SoCal Quattro]

This is exactly how I feel too.

I had a Challenger SRT as a rental a few months ago. It sounded fantastic, and it was a quick car for its size. But it's a giant fatty compared to the S4. it's common AF in Denver. The lighting is trash. The interior is meh at best. I just wasn't overly impressed with the total package.

Ultimately, I want something more unique (which I get varies by opinion). Right now, the only American Muscle that I'd consider is the Chevy SS or a CTS-V Wagon, but I'd still put a B7 RS4 above both of them.

The CTS V wagon was the only car I was considering before I got my S4.

American cars just look boxy and bulky, and my first car was a 1991 5.0 mustang like Vanillas Ice lol.

Have to admit that car never gave me problems .

Hard to compare luxury performance with an American car other than the Caddy’s


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[BozMan-S4]

I will admit, as much as I LOVE my Cadi-V car it feels less refined after owning my S4 for 3 months now. It’s winter here so the V is in the garage, I had a nice weekend and fired her up. After driving the S4, I thought there was something wrong with the steering in my Cadillac lol. It was weird feeling no resistance, less
road feel but have to say...it wins in comfort and leg room still. I’m 6’5” so I notice those things.


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[PSUGOLD]

Excellent topic actually. I was looking for a future trade 2016+ Charger 392 also. Never driven one yet, but the RWD worries me here in PA. Price seems good for what you get, and I do not expect the interior to be as good. My daughter is getting older too and starting to complain the S4 back seat is too small as her feet hit the back of the seat, so she wants something a bit bigger too. S6 is too $$ for me now, even used, but the 392's seems priced well, and a ton of rebate offers these days. I would still like to drive one first, but I always have been a fan of the big ass V8s from the days my dad had a 1987 Mustang GT (sucked, but I loved the sound and looks...)

[303 Spartan]

A weird/stupid thing I don't like about the S4, is that unlike when you are driving a muscle car or rice rocket- nobody tries to pick a fight when you drive a S4. When I drove my old Eclipse- everyone thought it was rice, and pulled up revving and wanting to race. So fun to then blow their doors off.

Now, I'm not nearly as fast, but I still wanna play a little. I'm not really the dude who pulls up and starts revving. So, nothing really ever happens, now. I miss that :(

This is the EXACT reason I moved away from the STI world and into the S4. I absolutely hated the attention the STI used to get from boy-racers. In the S4, people leave me alone and the compliments I get come from a much more mature crowd.

[brs2c]

This is the EXACT reason I moved away from the STI world and into the S4. I absolutely hated the attention the STI used to get from boy-racers. In the S4, people leave me alone and the compliments I get come from a much more mature crowd.

Well aren't you so mature, lol. Yeah, my wife asks me how I can be so smart and so dumb, simultaneously. I don't want my DSM days back- but an offer to play now and again, would be nice.

[bhvrdr]

I had a Camaro SS with a TVS1900 strapped to it running around 550-650hp depending on what pulley I threw on there...




The car was just stupid to drive. Sometimes stupid fun...sometimes just stupid.

IMO it makes a great 3rd car but I wouldnt have one for a primary car or even a second car but thats me.

One thing that impressed me was that The car was really well built. Sure the materials were not quite as nice as you see in the German cars but the overall quality of the leather and wear on the interior was really great and the car was nice and tight and free of rattles.

The car "technically" handled very well and could post decent laptimes but subjectively, the car drives very big around corners. It has good body composure and ultimate grip but its god awful hard to see out of and where the front corners of the car really are is anybodys guess. Lets just say it could post similar lap times to a 911 but the driving experience would be 100% different. The 911 may not be any faster around the track but its just so much more rewarding to drive. You can place it with precision and the road feel is just on another level entirely.

The SS is also completely traction limited. The old saying is "Whats the similarity between a 600hp SS and an 800hp SS?" The answer is: "They both run 11s." Obviously tongue and cheek but for a reason. When my Camaro was running 650hp the Audi S5 was still a quicker ET car. Most of us have experiences at the track even running faster ETs than hellcats on stock tires. The SS would trap 6mph higher but had nowhere near the traction. Even just cruising on the freeway at 75mph you could drop the hammer and it would break the rears loose so bad you absolutely could not floor it even at 75mph. Thats stupid fun but it gets old NEVER being able to give the car full throttle.

The car was fun as hell and everyone should own a stupidly overpowered muscle car once in their lives but I dont miss it as much as I thought I would.

Mike

[S4'ed]

2010 S4 is my winter "beater", Corvette Grand Sport is my summer "beater"...love them both.

[brs2c]

2010 S4 is my winter "beater", Corvette Grand Sport is my summer "beater"...love them both.

Are you sure your CC and Q3 aren't your beaters