Difference between fsi and tfsi?

**Novarider** · 08-11-2017 06:18 AM

I have been looking at a4's trying to find one I want and also looking at chips for them. Some sites say the chip is for tfsi and not fsi. What's the difference? I am considering purchasing a 06 true S-line 2.0t but the engine cover says fsi. Does that mean it cannot be chipped?

**titlicker** · 08-11-2017 06:24 AM

T stands for turbocharged.

I'm sure that the guys here will agree, don't waste your time with a chip. Spend a little more and tune it. You'll thank us later.

**fallingreason** · 08-11-2017 06:29 AM

Audi calls their engines TFSI. VW called then FSI, then TSI when the 2.0t change happened in 08/09. B7 A4's are basically FSI

**Theiceman** · 08-11-2017 06:44 AM

I didn't even think you could chip these cars, I thought everything was downloadable tune these days . with surface mount technology I thought the days of chips were long gone.

**Ashtonts** · 08-11-2017 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by Theiceman

I didn't even think you could chip these cars, I thought everything was downloadable tune these days . with surface mount technology I thought the days of chips were long gone.

I thought this as well. I've heard people refer to tuning as chipping but I assumed it was just a colloquialism/old terminology that was just never phased out, not that there are people actually chipping these cars.

**Novarider** · 08-11-2017 07:03 AM

This is what confused me. At the bottom it says this.
* This kit is designed for the FSI engine only. This can easily be found on the engine cover of your 2.0T VW/Audi. It will clearly be stamped FSI (not TFSI)

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-apr-part...20tstg1chip-1/

I thought I had seen some b7 2.0t with tfsi on the cover but maybe not

**Theiceman** · 08-11-2017 08:11 AM

from that site Id say its not a chip but a tune .
You send them your ECU , they download the tune to it ( multiple maps, software selectable ) and send it back.

**jbain2** · 08-11-2017 08:56 AM

See the link below. Decent explanation of the differences between the FSI and TSI engines.

http://bd8ba3c866c8cbc330ab-7b26c6f3...om/FSIvTSI.pdf

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**Rulty** · 08-11-2017 10:04 AM

Chip = tune = flash. These are basically interchangeable at this point. Most tuners (if not all nowadays for the B7's) just flash your ECU through the OBDII port (you can do this yourself too, so long as the tuner offers the support for it.), but what they are flashing is a tune. I believe that chip came from long ago when they would actually solder new EEPROM chips onto the ECU that were already flashed with the tune. This is at least my experience and these terms get thrown around all talking about the same thing. Some people are sticklers and like to use the proper terminology. I call it whatever pops into my head first. And many places do not even need you to ship your ECU anymore, just take to the shop, they flash your ECU through the OBD port, and you are done.

Sorry about rambling just wanted to throw some info out there, any questions please feel free to quote me here or message me and ill help as much as I can!

**EvolutionArmory** · 08-11-2017 01:51 PM

"Chipping" is a generic term from the days when we actually had to solder EPROM's on motherboards. It's still called "chipping" or "getting chipped" by a lot of people, most of us "older guys". 😀 Everything is done through the OBDII port now though.

I was working for an APR dealer when direct port tuning first got introduced in the early 2000's. It wasn't available for every car at first either. Some I could do direct port and some I still had to burn an EPROM and solder.

**Charles.waite** · 08-11-2017 01:56 PM

This thread is dumb.

**EvolutionArmory** · 08-11-2017 02:00 PM

FSI VS TFSI is pretty easy to look up. The EA113 motor we have in our B7's is a FSI motor meaning Fuel Stratified Injection and the EA888 found in B8's and up use a TFSI motor meaning Turbocharged Fuel Stratified Injection.

Both have turbos on the 2.0 so I can see why it can be confusing and many make the mistake of calling the B7 motor a TFSI motor when technically it's called an FSI motor.

**EvolutionArmory** · 08-11-2017 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Charles.waite

This thread is dumb.

It's not dumb. It's confusing until someone explains it or you look it up yourself. They are both valid questions.

**EvolutionArmory** · 08-11-2017 02:07 PM

A prime example of FSI and TFSI being used wrong is when I bought my boost gauge. I ordered a fitting kit for the FSI motor. They sent me the wrong kit entirely, a fitting kit for a transverse car. What I needed was their mislabeled TFSI fitting kit.

**Charles.waite** · 08-11-2017 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by EvolutionArmory

or you look it up yourself.

Just saying...

**jbain2** · 08-11-2017 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Charles.waite

Just saying...

This. Not sure what the OP is really trying to ascertain. Difference between motors or difference between tuning options. My 2 cents biggest difference is cams and cam follower.

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**Okedokey** · 08-11-2017 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by Rulty

Chip = tune = flash. These are basically interchangeable at this point. Most tuners (if not all nowadays for the B7's) just flash your ECU through the OBDII port (you can do this yourself too, so long as the tuner offers the support for it.), but what they are flashing is a tune. I believe that chip came from long ago when they would actually solder new EEPROM chips onto the ECU that were already flashed with the tune. This is at least my experience and these terms get thrown around all talking about the same thing. Some people are sticklers and like to use the proper terminology. I call it whatever pops into my head first. And many places do not even need you to ship your ECU anymore, just take to the shop, they flash your ECU through the OBD port, and you are done.

Sorry about rambling just wanted to throw some info out there, any questions please feel free to quote me here or message me and ill help as much as I can!

Yeah, us older guys remember, but a Flash, originally was done by changing the lithography on the CMOS by light, or UV. You literally used UV to modify the interconnects and CMOS chips had a small window above them for this purpose. :) But as you say, interchangeable now.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Charles.waite

This thread is dumb.

Can we have an emoticon that replaced 'dumb' with a small donald j trump?

**Charles.waite** · 08-11-2017 07:41 PM

Hahahahaha.

**tloft4** · 08-11-2017 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by Charles.waite

Hahahahaha.

^^
Nailed it

**esandes** · 08-11-2017 09:22 PM

Tfsi has timing chains and fsi has timing belts.

**vce1232000** · 08-11-2017 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by esandes

fsi has timing belts.

Incorrect info
FSI has a timing chain @ the rear of the cams. It also operates the VVT

**Okedokey** · 08-11-2017 11:18 PM

FSI - Fuel Stratified Injection
TFSI - Turbo Fuel Stratified Injection.

**80sGuy** · 08-12-2017 04:10 AM

TFSI?

**DenverAudiInnie** · 08-12-2017 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by 80sGuy

TFSI?

Yes, how about the red t.....fsi? We've already established this kicks 50 more hp. Hey Charles, is this still dumb?

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**vce1232000** · 08-12-2017 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by DenverAudiInnie

Yes, how about the "red t".....fsi? We've already established this kicks 50 more hp.

This is a fact jack

....................

**klrider44** · 08-12-2017 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by vce1232000

Incorrect info
FSI has a timing chain @ the rear of the cams. It also operates the VVT

I could be wrong here but I thought the tfsi started on the b8 platform which did utilize timing chains instead of a belt. Also I think they have a different hpfp setup, I think it's a roller style. Prolly other differences as well. I had always though that the b7 engine was an fsi while anything newer was a tfsi. Again I might be talking out my ass here....

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**Okedokey** · 08-12-2017 07:32 AM

"A turbocharger or supercharger makes a TFSI out of an FSI. In 2004 Audi was the first manufacturer worldwide to combine forced induction with gasoline direct injection. "

https://www.audi-technology-portal.d...tfsi-principle

**chris86vw** · 08-12-2017 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by EvolutionArmory

FSI VS TFSI is pretty easy to look up. The EA113 motor we have in our B7's is a FSI motor meaning Fuel Stratified Injection and the EA888 found in B8's and up use a TFSI motor meaning Turbocharged Fuel Stratified Injection.

Probably the closest in the thread but still not right.

TSI, FSI, TFSI have NOTHING to do with what engine is in a car, they are marketing terms only nothing else. This is like 4 motion and quattro, you can have haldex based quattro and torsen based 4 motion. They are marketing terms that VW and Audi uses and in NO WAY dictate a type of hardware in the way that is being described here.

Open the hood of a TTS and it says TFSI.. yet it is the old EA113 engine, same for a Golf R but it will say TSI

Pre about 08 all engines were labeled either Turbo FSI both VW and Audi.

After that they seperated off their marketing terms and

AUDI took TFSI

VW took TSI

You can have EA888 engines labeled TFSI in audis and labeled TSI in VWs

You can have EA113 engines labeled as TSI in a VW since it was built after a certain date.

This is unfortunately something the aftermarket could have prevented but they decided to just adopt the stupid forum mislabeling.

The T did originally stand for turbocharger, but since it was used on mechanical supercharger applications it really just came to mean it was forced induction. Technically all turbocharger are superchargers but not all superchargers are turbochargers so that's kind of a dumb way to label it but oh well.

**Charles.waite** · 08-12-2017 08:06 AM

^^ yea they’re simply marketing terms. They mean something in a marketing sense. They mean nothing from a mechanical standpoint other than they loosely refer to engine generations, sometimes.

Also stratified is a lie since none of the NA FSI/TSI/TFSI actually use stratified charge combustion. They tried using it but the lean running didn’t work right so they dialed it back to homogenous charge.

It’s all relatively interesting actually but the acronyms are sorta pointless. Hence me saying this thread is dumb earlier.

**EvolutionArmory** · 08-12-2017 08:32 AM

My description of TSI VS TFSI is correct, as it pertains to B7's and B8's, which is what we are discussing here. A EA113 in a B7 is called a 2.0 FSI motor and a EA888 is called a 2.0 TFSI.

I also agree with a lot of what you said about the marketing side of it but, they are called what they are called.

In the end it's silly and confusing, especially when you factor in the TSI side for VW like you said. What it comes down to is this. B7 A4's and MK 5 VW's are all technically called FSI motors. It doesn't get confusing until the B8 and MK 6 platforms. 😀

**EvolutionArmory** · 08-12-2017 08:36 AM

The labeling is dumb but this thread isn't dumb. They guy just want to know what tune he has to buy. In the end I guess it doesn't really matter though. The tuner will know what file to flash by what car he has 😀

**Theiceman** · 08-12-2017 03:43 PM

It was also worth the discussion as some people may be under the impression they are buying a performance chip you can put in a socket. This of course is false and your car will be down if you have to send your ecu away for a flash.

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**esandes** · 08-12-2017 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by klrider44

I could be wrong here but I thought the tfsi started on the b8 platform which did utilize timing chains instead of a belt. Also I think they have a different hpfp setup, I think it's a roller style. Prolly other differences as well. I had always though that the b7 engine was an fsi while anything newer was a tfsi. Again I might be talking out my ass here....

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You are correct.

**Okedokey** · 08-12-2017 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by esandes

You are correct.

Nope, TSFI came out in 2004

**Charles.waite** · 08-12-2017 11:18 PM

Well TSFI isn’t a thing...[;-)] I think you mean TFSI, mate.

But honestly it’s more marketing as was said above. It’s possible they used different acronyms in different parts of the world. They’re sorta all BS gobletygook anyway. Fuel stratified injection. Turbo fuel stratified injection? When they’re both turbo engines that means the acronyms are both incorrect and/or redundant.

In the end, it’s a somewhat interesting discussion, however base your purchases on model year or engine generation (ea113 vs ea888) not the marketing term the sales brochure uses or the emblem stamped on top of the engine. If in doubt call the seller and confirm.

**Okedokey** · 08-12-2017 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Okedokey

"A turbocharger or supercharger makes a TFSI out of an FSI. In 2004 Audi was the first manufacturer worldwide to combine forced induction with gasoline direct injection. "

https://www.audi-technology-portal.d...tfsi-principle

Here

**esandes** · 08-13-2017 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Okedokey

Nope, TSFI came out in 2004

Fair enough. I just recalled what I read on teh interwebz.

**chris86vw** · 08-14-2017 11:30 AM

[QUOTE=EvolutionArmory;12608506]My description of TSI VS TFSI is correct, as it pertains to B7's and B8's, [quote]

Well no there is no "TSI" labeled B7 or B8 ;)

A EA113 in a B7 is called a 2.0 FSI motor and a EA888 is called a 2.0 TFSI.

You mean the EA113 motors that say TURBO on them and are referred to in documention as Turbo FSI / TFSI motors?

TFSI predates the B8

B7 A4's and MK 5 VW's are all technically called FSI motors. It doesn't get confusing until the B8 and MK 6 platforms. 😀

See this is also incorrect.

There are EA888 equipped mk5 VWs :)

**Charles.waite** · 08-14-2017 11:45 AM

No b7 in the US was ever called a TFSI. I vaguely remember MAYBE the a3s had TFSI badging with the ea113 engine but I could be mistaken.

But all this confusion furthers my point that using the (meaningless) acronyms (especially when Audi plays revisionist history on what they mean) is pointless. They pretty much mean nothing relevant to the distinction between engines. The acronyms themselves provide zero information about the differences aside from arbitrarily adding or deleting letters.