APR Stage 2 Installed on 2015 Q7 3.0t

[scalbert]

I tried the ChipWerke Pro for a few months and it set the stage for the inevitable. The move on to a full tune and pulley. The ChipWerke worked great for added passing power and was very welcome. But the lag after the 1-2/2-3 shifts were annoying. You had to adjust your throttle input to control the amount of lag after the shift. But the additional power was very welcome. So to remedy that, I went all out for the APR Stage 2, 93 Octane pulley and tune. Why APR, because my 2013 S4 has their dual pulleys and tune and has worked well in that.

So last Friday I installed the pulley. It was a breeze on the Q7. No need for service position or removal of anything other than the belt and pulley. I had the old pulley off in 5 - 10 minutes. The longest wait was to heat up the new, smaller, SC pulley. After an hour in a toaster oven at 350 F, it slipped right on. Held it there for about a minute, then blew compressed air onto it for another couple of minutes. The new belt went on and I was done. Total amount of work time to complete it was less than 15 minutes. But then there was the hour of waiting for the pulley to heat up.

I had several meetings throughout the southeast this week and ended up in Opelika, AL for my final meeting. Obviously that was planned. I paid a visit to APR yesterday morning to get the Stage 2 tune added. They quickly brought the vehicle into their shop and began the work. It took a bit longer than expected as the ECU needed to be removed to be flashed. Audi installs tamper proof screws so APR cut notches in them so a flat head screw driver could be used to remove them. It did take a couple of hours in total but was fine as I browsed their collection in the waiting area and spoke with some of the engineers. Once done, they brought me my keys and away I went.

I had to make a stopover in Carrollton, GA so the majority was back roads but did get about 60 miles of highway driving in. I won't say it is similar to stock, just more powerful. Yes, the engine note and initial feel is similar. But once it gets above 3000 RPM, it is completely different. It just pulls all the way through. More like a slower version of my S4 (significantly more weight). There is a sharper jump off the line but as the revs build, it does not fall on its face like it did stock. There is one thing that is similar to stock, the shifts. It shifts like it should without a lag after the shift like with the ChipWerke Pro. I did find myself using D instead of S often. With the increased torque throughout, there was less need for throttle input. D felt absolutely find and easier to modulate with plenty of pulling power for this heavy vehicle.

It was actually fun getting on the throttle at a stop light only to leave all traffic easily behind in a large vehicle. I also had to pay attention when accelerating on the highway as I would get into Georgia's super-speeder range immediately; which is 85+ MPH for those not familiar. One issue with the new found acceleration is with the turning. I was exiting my neighborhood, making a left turn, briskly and had to adjust as I entered the other side. I may want to look into some sway bars soon just to keep the roll at a minimum.

I had noticed that on APR's website, there are no charts for the Q7. Unsure of the exact final power output I could expect, I asked one of the engineers. He confirm that while the C6 A6 had a bit more power in stock form, the upgraded power is the same since the APR code was the same for both. So I could refer the C6 A6 plots for reference. Link below. So it should be close to 390 HP and 380 Torque at the crank. I will put it on a dyno sometime later in the year.

http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_up...tfsi_c6a6.html

I inquired about if they would do a dual pulley set up for this vehicle as both the C6 A6 and Q7 are listed as Unavailable for the dual pulley. They said that lack of demand for the two platforms inhibit their ability to calibrate for these. However, if they ever get a vehicle in and have time available, it may be done. But for now, no plans on it. That would be nice but may be too much for the rest. The suspension and brakes were fine for stock power but are now on the edge.

I am extremely happy with the components and performance. It now has the acceleration I thought it should have had.

[sciblades]

Take it to the track and run it down the 1/4.

My uni tune gained 9mph in the 1/4 from stock to tuned on shell 93

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[sschwar2]

Awesome write up. Thanks! What was your total cost? It sounds like it is worth the cost? Are you worried about voiding the warranty? Thinking of adding to my 15Q7.

[scalbert]

Take it to the track and run it down the 1/4.

My uni tune gained 9mph in the 1/4 from stock to tuned on shell 93

I will eventually. Especially if I find myself up in northeast Georgia on a Friday this fall. And I am driving the Q7. I would not be shocked on the trap gain you saw. Once in the upper revs, close to the shift, there is over 100 WHP gap. That will definitely help the trap. Unfortunately I never ran this vehicle at the track for a reference run.

[scalbert]

Awesome write up. Thanks! What was your total cost? It sounds like it is worth the cost? Are you worried about voiding the warranty? Thinking of adding to my 15Q7.

Total cost would be about $2000. I did buy the pulley installation tool and did it myself. But going to APR themselves, they don't charge labor for the tune installation. But figure about $2000 in total.

This platform has shown to be reliable so I am not concerned. Plus, I do all maintenance myself so no need to go into the dealer. If there is a non-powertrain warranty matter, I will take it in and discuss the situation in advance. If there is a powertrain issue, well, I guess I will be working on it then. But with the amount of time this powertrain has been out, I feel pretty safe with a 2015 doing fine.

[sschwar2]

Total cost would be about $2000. I did buy the pulley installation tool and did it myself. But going to APR themselves, they don't charge labor for the tune installation. But figure about $2000 in total.

This platform has shown to be reliable so I am not concerned. Plus, I do all maintenance myself so no need to go into the dealer. If there is a non-powertrain warranty matter, I will take it in and discuss the situation in advance. If there is a powertrain issue, well, I guess I will be working on it then. But with the amount of time this powertrain has been out, I feel pretty safe with a 2015 doing fine.

Thanks. That's great to know.

[lexcruiser]

Would this theoretically also work in the 2017/18 Q7s?

[scalbert]

Would this theoretically also work in the 2017/18 Q7s?

Not at this time. There have been some changes with the 3.0t with the newer platform. The tuners are working it out now.

[30TMG]

Scalbert - Excellent review. Thank you for sharing. My assessment of the Chipwerke module is similar. The mid-range passing power is addicting, but part throttle manipulation can be frustrating. As mentioned, I too drive a '15 Q7 PP and the 'flat spot' when feeding too much throttle is borderline dangerous at times, and I have tried every variation of reset/adaption as advised by Chipwerke with little luck. I cannot fool myself into thinking I am building a race car; all that I really want is a bit more kick to make it thru traffic to various soccer events. :)

Did they mention any added benefit to an open air intake? My guess is any gain would pale in comparison to stage 2. Its a shame that the dual pulley option is not on the table. I would think that would really round out what I think is a stout SUV; one that I find more attractive (muscular) than its replacement and plan to keep for years to come. Imagine 430/400 hp/tq? That would make for a fun daily SUV, but if your numbers are correct, 390/380 is not too far off. Besides, what SUV would really be considered a replacement that offers the same fit/finish and reliability? I've glanced at the Volvo/Range Rover/X5 but I am just not impressed for the expected entry price.

In any case, thanks again for posting this. Please post if your opinion changes over time.

[scalbert]

Did they mention any added benefit to an open air intake?

No mention. I doubt they even really looked at it either. In Stage 2 form, the stock intake is enough on the S4. I would wager the surface area is similar in both platforms so stock should be fine.

[30TMG]

Great! Thanks. I will look out for you on local roads with my measly 272 hp... for now.

[iconoclast]

Not at this time. There have been some changes with the 3.0t with the newer platform. The tuners are working it out now.

Which? Every company I spoke with said there are no plans at this time for 4M Q7 Tune/Pulley or hardware to support it. Not enough demand to support the R&D costs at this time.

[apertura]

Which? Every company I spoke with said there are no plans at this time for 4M Q7 Tune/Pulley or hardware to support it. Not enough demand to support the R&D costs at this time.

Arin from APR has said they are working in the new engines, apparently they are the same as A6 an A7, so when those are done, the Q7 4M will go next.

Let's hope it doesn't take long... I'm desperate for the upgrade!

[Brooklyn]

Did I read this correctly that the ECU has to be removed to tune it? I was hoping to avoid that with the wife's 2014.


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[scalbert]

Did I read this correctly that the ECU has to be removed to tune it? I was hoping to avoid that with the wife's 2014.


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Correct. I did not go into the reasons though.

Wasn't too bad. But then again, I didn't do that part. APR did it. There are two tamper proof screws holding the ECU down. APR cut a slot in them to allow a flathead screw driver to remove them. I had them use those same screws on the reinstall since they were already slotted.

[SQive]

It shouldn't be necessary for a '14. They only have to take the ECU to crack it. Once they have that revision, others similar shouldn't have to be removed.

[scalbert]

It shouldn't be necessary for a '14. They only have to take the ECU to crack it. Once they have that revision, others similar shouldn't have to be removed.

Not sure. Mine was done at APR and they said the 4L Q7 requires the ECU to be removed each time.

[30TMG]

Scalbert - I neglected to ask you if you covered this with APR. Will they consider a dual pulley option for the Q7? I think I heard the limitation is the ECU but can't remember. Just curious if you asked. Also, is there any benefit to an exhaust on the Q7?

[scalbert]

Scalbert - I neglected to ask you if you covered this with APR. Will they consider a dual pulley option for the Q7? I think I heard the limitation is the ECU but can't remember. Just curious if you asked. Also, is there any benefit to an exhaust on the Q7?

Yes, asked about the dual pulley. There is no technical limitation as I initially thought. It is the limited market and time to develop the code. If one of their employees ends up with the Q7 (or C6 A6) with the 3.0t and their engineers have open time, they may do it. But they won't take away development time on other projects to devote to what they may only sell ten of. The number of Q7 and C6 A6 3.0t, combined Stage 1 and Stage 2 installs was amazingly low when compared to the S4 only. If I remember correctly, it was less than 10%; maybe closer to 5%.

No discussion about exhaust. But again, if the S4 serves as an example, I doubt there would be any real gain. The cats are the same and rest doesn't appear to be too restrictive.

[30TMG]

I guess that explains the lack of movement in the Q7 forum. Not even remotely close to similar X5 forums. It's actually surprising to me given that I think the Q is a fun little truck and so far so good on reliability. My assumption is with a bit of tuning it will really wake her up (also based on your feedback so far). Thanks!

[scalbert]

Perhaps the weight and the inherent 3rd row cause many to think it has no hope?

I really enjoy driving it now. Looking forward to cooler weather to really feel even more of a difference. Need to do some logging with VAGCOM to see what the IAT's are going to under full load. Granted, the Q7 has dual heat exchangers and are a decent size. It would be nice to know the temp ranges we are seeing post-IC.

[Brooklyn]

That's unfortunate. Only way the wife would agree to a tune is if it could be quickly returned to stock with no evidence of tampering. Looks like we'll be keeping it stock.

Not sure. Mine was done at APR and they said the 4L Q7 requires the ECU to be removed each time.

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[HickQ7]

This was exactly what I was looking for. If you go the APR route, you have to start with stage 1 and then do stage 2 and the pulley, right? The stage 1 tune is about $1300 and stage 2 is about $300 which puts it right at the $2k you had mentioned. Do any of these upgrades remove the restriction from the air intake? I've heard that is also a big choke point in the line.

[scalbert]

This was exactly what I was looking for. If you go the APR route, you have to start with stage 1 and then do stage 2 and the pulley, right? The stage 1 tune is about $1300 and stage 2 is about $300 which puts it right at the $2k you had mentioned. Do any of these upgrades remove the restriction from the air intake? I've heard that is also a big choke point in the line.

You can go straight to Stage 2 but will pay for Stage 1 as well. No other changes were made to the vehicle. The stock intake is intact. The surface area of the filter is the same, if not larger, than my S4 which can run the stock intake just fine.

However, I need to look at the inlet to the airbox on the Q7 as that may be a limitation. Out of town right now and am not driving the Q7.

[scalbert]

I took a further look at the intake and it appears the only inlet to the air box is the snorkel that runs to the front. But it looks the same size, if not smaller, than the intake box to throttle body tube. So there may be a choke point. I need to open the airbox up and see how it could be modified to get more air pre-filter. I'll also look at potential changes. The issue is with the sound. I don't want to hear the SC whine in the Q7. A little in the S4 is fine, but not the Q7.

[Arin@APR]

Doesn't the Q7 have a bit more sound dampening material over all, giving it less interior sound from the engine bay? Perhaps a filter attached to the inlet alone, just for a test, would answer that question before you go cutting anything.

[scalbert]

Doesn't the Q7 have a bit more sound dampening material over all, giving it less interior sound from the engine bay? Perhaps a filter attached to the inlet alone, just for a test, would answer that question before you go cutting anything.

It does. And would be happy to test as I have an extra filter. But I would need a breather adapter, filter, etc. I could scavenge parts off my S4 to do this. But that would be double the work.

I can certainly do that. Or I will be down in Opelika again soon and would gladly stop by and borrow a few parts to test with....

[Dred]

I am currently running the APR stage 1 tune on my 2013 Q7. I also have installed an intake kit from Roc-Euro and you can definitely hear the supercharger whine during acceleration and it sounds amazing. When you are just cruising you don't hear it at all, so it's not even noticeable on long highway drives until you step on it to pass everyone. I am planning on going to the stage 2 tune soon and I was wondering if you ever had a chance to get any 1/4 mile times or if you by any chance ever put it on a dyno to see how much power it's putting down? The only power info listed on the APR website for our Q7s is data from a C6 A6. When I called APR with some technical questions specific to the Q7, the sales person I spoke with basically just read me the numbers from the graph on the website that shows the C6 A6 data. I find it hard to believe that the APR tune only brings the Q7 power from 333 stock to 369 for stage 1 93 octane and 388 for stage 2 93 octane. My Q7 feels significantly more powerful after doing the stage 1 tune and it feels like it gained more than 36 hp. For the stage 2 tune I was going to do the crank pulley instead of the supercharger drive pulley since it will increase the blower speed more. This in theory should provide more torque earlier in the rpm range and may just cause the bypass valve to open sooner so I wouldn't expect the peak hp to be any higher. Again when I asked the APR sales rep about this, he said it would perform the exact same regardless of which pulley I swapped. I tried to explain that it would be impossible for the torque curves to be the same because the blower would be spinning at different speeds depending on which pulley you change. Maybe Arin@APR can set the record straight on that one! Let me know if you ever get any dyno numbers with your stage 2 with the smaller supercharger pulley, and I'll eventually try to get dyno numbers for my stage 2 with the larger crank pulley. Too bad they don't offer a dual pulley tune for the Q7!

[SQive]

The Q7 doesn't need HP. It needs torque.
I would imagine the tune for the larger vehicles focuses more on torque.
Do you have any of those numbers?

[scalbert]

For the stage 2 tune I was going to do the crank pulley instead of the supercharger drive pulley since it will increase the blower speed more. This in theory should provide more torque earlier in the rpm range and may just cause the bypass valve to open sooner so I wouldn't expect the peak hp to be any higher. Again when I asked the APR sales rep about this, he said it would perform the exact same regardless of which pulley I swapped. I tried to explain that it would be impossible for the torque curves to be the same because the blower would be spinning at different speeds depending on which pulley you change.

The crank pulley would perform the same as the SC pulley. The ECU will see the target and open the bypass to maintain that target. Spinning faster will only generate more heat; not more boost as that is regulated by the ECU.

As for gains with the pulley, I never had Stage 1 as I went straight to Stage 2. But they were very noticeable. Even more so for me as ours was the factory ECU neutered 280 HP version. Even with the SC pulley, you get a nice 25 lb/ft gain over Stage 1.

[Dred]

I understand that the ECU will open the bypass once the target level of boost is reached so I do not expect to see any peak gains using the crank pulley vs the supercharger pulley. However, since the oversized crank pulley will be spinning the supercharger slightly faster than the undersized supercharger pulley, it will reach that target level of boost slightly lower in the rpm range. Since the supercharger is spinning faster at any given rpm, this would translate to more boost at lower rpm until that bypass valve is opened. This should provide more torque at lower rpm. From what I was told by APR, the program does not open the bypass valve early on.

[scalbert]

This is a roots style blower, positive displacement. At WOT, the boost levels remain about the same throughout the rev band. It may drop off some up top as efficiency is lost. I am pretty sure the bypass still opens at low revs and will get a new log using VCDS to confirm over the weekend.

[30TMG]

I thought i’d add some to this thread. I’ve communicated with Scalbert about his experiences with his Q7 and contemplated the drive from GA to APR to have this done to my vehicle until I reached out to GIAC and found that they had a dealer here in GA who could flash my Q7 without removing the ecu and modifying screws or whatever needs to be done for access. For reference I have been using the Chipwerke module for roughly 8 months and while the highway passing power was good, I have not been able to get pass the perceptible fuel cut or ‘stutter’ between shifts.

Happy to say that for now GIAC stage 1 plus the Remus pedal commander is a significant improvement (seat of the pants) from the Chipwerke module. I’m still playing with the Remus pedal commander to find a sweet spot, but she certainly leaps away from traffic now and accelerates smoothly in each gear and all RPMs.

That being said, the installer noted that the Q7 trans is not as punchy as he expected. I think it’s likely due to the weight. For now I am a happy customer with the ability to switch programs and an intact ECU. Since an ~$80k+ New Q7 isn’t in the cards right now, this will serve me well as is. Thanks for reading!

[scalbert]

Congrats on the change. It makes this massive vehicle fun to drive.

[30TMG]

Thanks! It does for sure, and I’m only stage 1. Again, I won’t win any drag races with kids/soccer gear in the trunk but it feels like a different vehicle.

[blackfunk]

Thanks! It does for sure, and I’m only stage 1. Again, I won’t win any drag races with kids/soccer gear in the trunk but it feels like a different vehicle.

How much was the cost for the GIAC stage 1? Debating on which to go with. I'd love it if EPL had something as I'm able to flash at home for my S4.