HELP - 3.0 Misfiring

[Bumpo411]

My Audi A4 3.0 v6 Quattro has been misfiring lately. I first scanned the car and it showed all the cylinders misfiring, so I cleared it and drove about 150 miles (It's my only vehicle so I had no other choice) When I got back home, I scanned the car again and it only showed cylinder 4,5,6 misfiring. I replaced the coil packs on those cylinders, cleared the code again, and then went to the store. On my way back home, it started misfiring again. Scanned the car and it only showed 4,5,6 again. This time I measured my engine live and it shows nearly every cylinder misfring. On the first test (which I didn't log or photo graph) cylinders 1,2,3 misfired until I hit the gas, then it seems like the misfiring transfered to cylinders 4,5,6 mostly. Then my 2nd and 3rd test, I logged and photo graphed. If anyone could help me, that'd be great!!

http://imgur.com/a/1DMOn

[ufkenedy]

A lot of things could cause this.
Don't be shocked to find all coil packs working.
For starters, do a spark tests for all coil like i always do.switch ignition on remove coil and touch engine body with metallic part of coil. It should spark visibly.

Away from there. Bad maf sensor could be cause.

Dirty or leaking pvc too can cause misfires.

Vacuum lines n nozzle blockage too.

Fuel return also.

Everything i mentioned above are based on experiences I've encountered with previous misfires.

Im sure people with better knowledge will get in here soon

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[ufkenedy]

I never had vcds or vag or whatever. Only a generic portable obd2 scanner.



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[Bumpo411]

Wouldn't the MAF sensor throw a code? and I've changed all the pcv lines (5 months ago I'd say) so I feel that those won't be the problem. What would the best way for me to check the vacuum lines and the fuel return?

[uboo]

Would start with the basics....how old are the spark plugs...are the spark plugs tubes full of oil...compression test... Fuel pressure and age of fuel filter...you need to look at things that are common to all cylinders

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[imnuts]

When you checked the live data, did you check your air to fuel ratio? Cylinders 4-6 are on the second half of the fuel rail away from the supply line. Your fuel pump could be weak and/or an old fuel filter with lower flow.

The other items mentioned are good too. I highly doubt it's the coils, though it could be. By any chance, did these start shortly after a timing belt change? That's the only thing not mentioned to check.

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[Bumpo411]

I replaced all the spark plugs, coil packs, air filter,temp sensor, fuel filter, and fuel pump last year. Replaced new o-rings on the injectors, new gaskets on the intake manifold and valve covers, and timing belt about 5 months ago. I have not checked the compression or the fuel/air ratio so I'll try to do that this by tomorrow

[Bumpo411]

Went and scanned the car again...
1. Ignition (knock control) is higher is higher on cylinders 4,5,6 (0.234 V vs 0.351 V but it keeps switching)
2. Mass air flow seems to be working fine (3.81 g/s)
3. Lambda control heater condition goes On and OFF like someone is there clicking a button (Fast)
4. Continous Camshaft Adjustment is higher on bank 2 side (3.0 KW vs 22.0 KW)
5. I added the pictures on the lambda control mixture adaptation and the voltage

http://imgur.com/gallery/66InX
I'm not sure if all this information will help but I figured it wouldn't hurt

[ufkenedy]

Wouldn't the MAF sensor throw a code? and I've changed all the pcv lines (5 months ago I'd say) so I feel that those won't be the problem. What would the best way for me to check the vacuum lines and the fuel return?

Bad maf should throw code.
For fuel return, i always start the car and remove the return hose in front to visibly check free and smooth fuel rush.

Like i hinted earlier because i have no proper vcds vag around, i tend to solve my issues conventionally to some extent so my technical no-how is inadequate

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[5ktq]

heater cycling is normal

>Continous Camshaft Adjustment is higher on bank 2 side (3.0 KW vs 22.0 KW)

that sounds weird, like one cam is stuck advanced. there's no codes for that?

[SJorge3442]

heater cycling is normal

>Continous Camshaft Adjustment is higher on bank 2 side (3.0 KW vs 22.0 KW)

that sounds weird, like one cam is stuck advanced. there's no codes for that?

If I were a betting man, I'd say your timing is off from an improperly replaced timing belt job. Since we have VVT, the adjuster can make up some difference for you, but if you're far enough out, the adjuster cant even the timing out. I bet if you pulled cam timing logs, you'd see the drivers side is way off than the passenger.

[Bumpo411]

I was finally able to get around to scanning my car again and this is what I found...

Engine Codes Pulled-

Address 01: Engine Labels: 06C-909-559-ASN.lbl
Part No SW: 8E0 909 559 L HW: 8E0 909 059
Component: 3.0L V6/5V G 0010
Coding: 0016711
Shop #: WSC 63351 000 00000
VCID: 3E26347CAC64E5271F5-5160

6 Faults Found:
16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0300 - 001 - - MIL ON
16688 - Cylinder 4
P0304 - 001 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
16690 - Cylinder 6
P0306 - 001 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
16689 - Cylinder 5
P0305 - 001 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
16685 - Cylinder 1
P0301 - 002 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent - MIL ON
16686 - Cylinder 2
P0302 - 002 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent - MIL ON
Readiness: 0000 0001

And some information that I pulled that I think may help...

1. Adjustment Bank 1 and Bank 2- keeps bouncing between 0.0 - 1.5KW on both banks
2. Phase Position Bank 1- 5.0KW
3. Phase Postion Bank 2- 22.0KW
4. Injection Timing- 3.12ms
5. RPM Barrier (lower)- 1560/min
6. RPM Barrier (upper)- 1560/min
7. Load Barrier (Lower)- 20.3%
8. Load Barrier (upper)- 23.3%
9. Timing retardation (Every cylinder)- 0.0KW
10. Sensor 1 (Bank 1)- 00011
11. Sensor 2 (Bank 1)- 1110
12. Sensor 1 (Bank 2)- 00011
13. Sensor 2 (Bank 2)- 1110

I think I pulled the camshaft timing logs but if not, then I'm not exactly sure where to find it

[imnuts]

Phase positions being that far off tells me that your timing is off. Given codes on both banks, it may be off on both. If start by getting the cam locking tool, setting the car to TDC and checking if the cam tools go on.

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[Bumpo411]

Phase positions being that far off tells me that your timing is off. Given codes on both banks, it may be off on both. If start by getting the cam locking tool, setting the car to TDC and checking if the cam tools go on.

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IF it's off (which it seems that it is), I would need to align the crank and insert the locking pin, THEN adjust the camshafts to be able to insert the locking tools? I just don't want to harm the engine by turning the camshafts the wrong way or something. (never turned camshafts because the locking tool on so this is new to me) Just trying to figure out the best way to fix this timing problem

[SJorge3442]

IF it's off (which it seems that it is), I would need to align the crank and insert the locking pin, THEN adjust the camshafts to be able to insert the locking tools? I just don't want to harm the engine by turning the camshafts the wrong way or something. (never turned camshafts because the locking tool on so this is new to me) Just trying to figure out the best way to fix this timing problem

You dont NEED the locking pin for the crank per se, but it will only help. This happened to me before when my car rolled backwards in gear and threw my timing off. What I did was man-handle the cam tools into the cams. I did this by breaking the cam sprocket bolts loose and then using brute force to rotate the tools into the proper positions on the cams. After I got both locks all the way seated (VERY IMPORTANT that they are fully seated (As much as possible)), I then turned the crank so that the sprocket was lined up where it needed to be. Then I when through the process of tightening the the belt back down (setting pretension, releasing the tensioner, then setting tension again), then locked the cam gears down, and then I was on my way.

Without the engine running, you're not going to hurt anything as long as you dont turn the crank while everything on the top half is locked down. When setting the belt tension, be sure to have a helper hold the crank pully (if youre not using the lock) to keep that from turning.

[Bumpo411]

So I just got around to doing my timing and now I brought my Bank 2 down to 7.0 KW (from 22) and Bank 1 up to 11.0 KW(from 3). I don't know what else to do, because I used the cam locking tool and I thought I seated it completely. The only possible idea I have is the Chinese knock offs locking tools, simply don't seat right. It's still misfiring, which is throwing a code and I have state inspection this month
Is there another way to check to make sure that the cams are dead center?

[Bumpo411]

Turned the car off and started it again, not misfiring anymore but still annoyed about how far I'm off

[imnuts]

At least now they are closer together. I'm not sure what it is at idle normally, so it's possible you're ok now.

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