P0016 after timing belt, cam follower, tstat

**ksteezy** · 07-23-2017 10:27 AM

Worked on a buddy's 2.0t b7 this weekend doing the timing belt. We changed the timing belt, tbelt tensioner and the two idler pullies. Then checked the aligned marks for the camshaft and crank. We used the oem camshaft mark and turned the crank until the cam gear slit aligned with the cam mark on the block, then took off the crank pulley for the serpentine belt and then took off the lower timing belt cover. Then marked the crankshaft gear so we didn't lose the original positioning when the timing belt came off.

We also did the thermostat and the cam follower. Cam follower showed normal wear, no rough surface just wearing of the black coating down to silver.

Put everything back together, filled coolant up and everything and started car. Idled it for about 5 minutes or so to get it up to operating temp and everything was fine, no cel nothing except for the traction control light(battery was disconnected at negative terminal for thermostat change). Then checked coolant again and this time when we started his car the cel came on and read a p0016 camshaft crankshaft position error.

Assuming the cam and crank marks line up, is it possible we got a bad tensioner? We checked the work again and the tensioner seemed ok, but when we set the tension on the tbelt, the tensioner didn't seem like it was getting that much resistance like the serpentine belt... after rechecking everything and applying correct tension on the new ina tensioner, we cleared codes and started engine again. Same thing happened. After idling car for about 5 minutes, then restarting, then idling. Everything seemed fine. Timing advance during idle was 0* with slight fluctuations about 0.5*. As engine was revved up to 1.5-2k timing advance was higher and higher going up to around 20* or so. Then on the before the 3rd start we pulled codes to see if there were any, found p0016 again...

What could be wrong? Idling and everything seems fine, maybe a slight vibration from idle but nothing like an earthquake from a b6 s4 when the timing chain tensioners gave and engine was toast...

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**ksteezy** · 07-24-2017 08:49 AM

Anybody have any insights?

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**B7S3wannabi** · 07-24-2017 07:35 PM

Gotta check that timing again boss. Just remove the upper cover and use the 19mm to turn the crank until the harmonic balancer mark lines up with the lower cover mark. Then see where the camshaft mark is in relation to the OT mark. Snap some pictures of your marks if you can so we can see.

**B7S3wannabi** · 07-25-2017 06:19 PM

Only other thing I can think of that causes that code is an issue with the adjuster unit or timing adjuster solenoid

**ksteezy** · 07-26-2017 09:19 AM

I have a feeling it's the crank pulley/harmonic balancer...will check that today. Just realized there's a nub on the crank sprocket for the pulley to be put on an exact certain way...if installed incorrectly will the pulley be damaged? Would a new pulley be needed?

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**B7S3wannabi** · 07-26-2017 05:14 PM

If the crank pulley wasn't installed in the correct position then the timing must be pretty far off. Won't know if it's damaged until you remove it. Never ran into that issue myself.

**ksteezy** · 07-26-2017 08:19 PM

But if the crank sprocket was never moved to begin with then only the harmonic balancer(the crank pulley) would be off with the crank sprocket nub right?

Took some pictures of how it currently sits

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**ksteezy** · 07-26-2017 08:20 PM

Seems like it's off by a bit? How to fix this?

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**Jet08** · 07-26-2017 08:43 PM

unlock the tensioner and pull the timing belt slowly and carefully off both sprockets, align the crank replace the belt, the cam sprocket will move when you set the tensioner so you need to checkand set before the timing mark so when tight it should be good.

**dalmation53** · 07-26-2017 09:20 PM

The crank is off. Make it easier on your self paint the line with a white sharpie or something so is visible. Take the belt off and while putting the belt again before tension make sure the camshaft is a top dead center. Before you put everything if you wanna take pics and show us so we can confirm is ok to start.

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**ksteezy** · 07-26-2017 09:31 PM

Just so I have this right-

1)Make sure camshaft is at TDC as seen in my pic(Notch on cam sprocket aligns with timing cover arrow mark)

2)remove timing belt and then align the crankshaft pulley mark with the timing mark simply by turning the crankshaft bolt with the timing belt plastic cover installed and the crankshaft pulley so the marks line up? Will that affect the timing chains internally if the belt isn't connected? Should I only rotate the crankshaft clockwise until it looks like this?

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**Jet08** · 07-26-2017 09:50 PM

Yes that is correct, just remember when you put tension on the belt it will try to move the cam sprocket which is what I think has happened when done before, the upside is now the belt is not as stiff it is easier to set the position correctly.

**Low and Behold** · 07-26-2017 10:29 PM

^ yep

Originally Posted by ksteezy

I have a feeling it's the crank pulley/harmonic balancer...will check that today.

Bingo (I know I'm late to the party here)

Gotta make sure that BOTH are at TDC. I always crank the engine by hand a few times to make sure the marks line up again before I put everything back together.

**ksteezy** · 07-26-2017 10:37 PM

The stupid thing is I DID do that, but I used the cam sprocket oem notch to align...mistake on my part because depending on viewing angle it can be a tooth or so off and actually look aligned if you aren't looking at it dead center...which is why all the guides tell you to use white out or something!

But my main concern is by rotating the crank without the timing belt connected to the cam would it affect the internal timing chain at all?

But it seems like it wouldn't like jet08 has said?

**B7S3wannabi** · 07-27-2017 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by ksteezy

But my main concern is by rotating the crank without the timing belt connected to the cam would it affect the internal timing chain at all?

But it seems like it wouldn't like jet08 has said?

As long as you don't attempt a full revolution of the crankshaft you will be ok. It won't have any effect on the chains but if you try a full revolution of the crank the pistons will contact the valves. Move the crank whichever way you need to align the crank with the mark and reinstall the belt and tension it properly. Once you have confirmed the timing marks line up on the camshaft and crankshaft rotate the engine via the 19mm crank bolt two full revolutions and make sure the marks align once again.

**ksteezy** · 07-27-2017 08:15 PM

Timing seems like it's about 1mm off up top on the cam gear? How precise do you guys actually get, because when I shift my head 1 mm to the left or right it looks closer...

What do you guys think?

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**Low and Behold** · 07-27-2017 08:20 PM

That's damn close and should be good. What's the crank look like?

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**ksteezy** · 07-27-2017 08:48 PM

Top is cam bottom pic is crank. Redid it again lol...

Now it seems to be dead on

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**dalmation53** · 07-28-2017 12:27 AM

The crank needs to go just a tad bit to the left. It needs to be spot on. Turn it again and make sure is dead on. Your camshaft sprocket is good though. Even just a tad bit off can cause a misfire. And sucks to to all over again. But is looking almost perfect.

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**B7S3wannabi** · 07-28-2017 05:24 AM

Originally Posted by ksteezy

Top is cam bottom pic is crank. Redid it again lol...

Now it seems to be dead on

As long as your balancer is installed on the crank gear properly, that is perfect. Now the question is, was it off compared to how you had it? Or do you think it is exactly how it was before.

**ksteezy** · 07-28-2017 08:10 AM

It is MUCH closer than before. Is the balancer supposed to have a pressed fit? Mine seems to slide on and off pretty easily and lining it up with the crank gear nub doesn't give an exact fit. What I mean by that is after aligning the crank nub with the nub hole in the balancer and threading the triple square bolts by hand there still seems to be a tiny tiny bit of right left movement, maybe about 1-2mm left or right. Is that normal? Ill check again when Im back on the car but that's what I last remember...

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**Okedokey** · 07-28-2017 08:19 AM

the teeth on that belt look trashed??

**B7S3wannabi** · 07-28-2017 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by ksteezy

It is MUCH closer than before. Is the balancer supposed to have a pressed fit? Mine seems to slide on and off pretty easily and lining it up with the crank gear nub doesn't give an exact fit. What I mean by that is after aligning the crank nub with the nub hole in the balancer and threading the triple square bolts by hand there still seems to be a tiny tiny bit of right left movement, maybe about 1-2mm left or right. Is that normal? Ill check again when Im back on the car but that's what I last remember...

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You are good. That is all normal. Button it up and clear the codes.