OE Sachs SMF or Valeo SMF clutch kits

[GTA]

It's time to replace my clutch after ~ 240,000km (150,000 miles). It's my DD with stage 1 flash so I only need an OE equivalent clutch. OG has replaced his to Valeo SMF and he likes it for the price and others seems to like this Valeo SMF conversion setup. However, being in Canada, prices up here for the Valeo kit is about $200 more than the Sachs kit and I can use the savings on the RMS, trans, input seal, etc.

Since I cannot find any reviews on the Sachs OE kit, either no one has done it or bothered to write about it, I would like to know if anyone on this forum has anything they've heard about the Sachs. It's a ZF company so I'm guessing they're a good OE replacement.

Here are the kits I'm referring to:
Valeo # 52285615 https://www.ecstuning.com/b-valeo-pa.../52285615~val/

Sachs # K70771-01F https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/aud...sat-k70771-01f

Keep in mind the prices you see are not what I have to pay.

Thanks for any and all input.

[Kevin C]

Check Rock Auto, they have the Valero kit for a great price and I have never heard of any issues with their kit.

[eljay]

My OEM clutch failed around 280,000 kms with 80k of those being with GTRS kit.
I replaced it with the Valeo SMFW kit and I'm very happy with it.
But I never dropped a clutch for a launch either, so folks that do will chime in and say that the Valeo kit will not hold up. It all depends on how you use your power and how you shift.
For example, I also rev-match my downshifts, so I'd like to think I'm easy on my clutches.

[GTA]

Check Rock Auto, they have the Valero kit for a great price and I have never heard of any issues with their kit.

Haha! Thanks for this. I actually did look at Rock Auto but in the Clutch Kit section from the pull-down. This only gave me the Sachs kit. The Valeo kit is under Flywheel Conversion Kit. Thanks for making me look again.

I replaced it with the Valeo SMFW kit and I'm very happy with it.

That's what everyone in the Americas are saying about Valeo. Over in Europe, they mostly use Sachs from what I've gathered. There may be some shudder over the DMF but manageable and a lot less $$$.

It's very odd that the best price I can find on the Valeo kit is around C$650 in Canada. The Valeo kit costs less than the Sachs kit from Rock Auto too! Guess which way I'm leaning, LOL!

Eljay, did you do the work yourself? If so, what elese did you swap out "while you were there"?

[GTA]

I just grabbed the very last Valeo SMFW conversion kit from Rock Auto. Now I need to decide what else I should do while I have the tranny out and order those parts.

Also lucky is the C$ has gained some ground on the US$ over the last couple of weeks.

[Spike00513]

ECS SMF kit installed @ ~140k, not sure which one, I think there are even two different price point kits listed on their site.
Yes I believe OG has one.

Any other plans while you're in there? ie slave cylinder, bleed DOT4, SS clutch line, trans mount, selector shaft seal, linkage sockets, etc.

I heard it's possible to balance engines with flywheels. Is that necessary with an SMF, since there is less dampening than a stock DMF?
Or can it be compensated for by putting a Fluidampr on the front? (expensive)

Maybe there are no good used kits on the classifieds right now to save money?

I wonder which exact parts the name "Sachs" refers to for the Sachs kit. Because I believe Sachs is a clutch company, as in friction disc.
Not sure where ZF fits in the puzzle. Who makes what? Could ZF be a big parent company of LuK AND Sachs?
Doesn't LuK have a flywheel factory, at least for DMF's, in China? Or am I thinking of something else, such as Osram bulbs...

Did not know RockAuto had the Valeo kit, I know they have LuK DMF049 but that is 240mm DMF for 3.0L V6.

I am guessing it's more expensive due to both higher shipping cost, and exchange rate.

[eljay]

Haha! Thanks for this. I actually did look at Rock Auto but in the Clutch Kit section from the pull-down. This only gave me the Sachs kit. The Valeo kit is under Flywheel Conversion Kit. Thanks for making me look again.


That's what everyone in the Americas are saying about Valeo. There may be some shudder over the DMF but manageable and a lot less $$$.

It's very odd that the best price I can find on the Valeo kit is around C$650 in Canada. The Valeo kit costs less than the Sachs kit from Rock Auto too! Guess which way I'm leaning, LOL!

Eljay, did you do the work yourself? If so, what elese did you swap out "while you were there"?

I had a shop do it. I needed the car back asap, so no time to learn clutch swap at that time. I also had the shop replace the rear main seal, tranny mount, tranny fluid flush, clutch fork/pivot, pilot bearing.

[GTA]

Spike, all I know is that Sachs is under the ZF umbrella. Not sure about Luk though.

You've listed a number of things including stuff I've never even heard of or considered ($$$), while others (Dot4 flush, gear oil flush, mount) I have already done. I figure the slave cylinder can be replaced if/when it starts acting up or leaking since there's no need to pull the tranny to do it. I will however, change the rear coolant flange because it's a PITA from up top.

It sucks not having access to the great prices south of the border, regardless of exchange rates, because there's also shipping, customs, etc. Good thing Rock Auto discloses all their fees when checking out. I'm still saving over $200 even after all the taxes, fees and shipping to what I can get locally.

I had a shop do it. I needed the car back asap, so no time to learn clutch swap at that time.

Good to know Eljay. I'm making list now. My buddy's shop will be closing for a week soon so I'll have over 10 days to muck around with it on a lift. My only concern is un-doing the cat to downpipe flange bolts (I'm no good with a welding torch). Everything else should be straightforward.

[Axis]

I just grabbed the very last Valeo SMFW conversion kit from Rock Auto. Now I need to decide what else I should do while I have the tranny out and order those parts.

Also lucky is the C$ has gained some ground on the US$ over the last couple of weeks.

Learn from my mistake, get a rear main seal just in case.

I run a GT2871R on that clutch haha

[GTA]

I run a GT2871R on that clutch haha

^ Nice to know it can take it and that I've made a good choice.

Learn from my mistake, get a rear main seal just in case.

What brand did you get? Genuine is way expensive. Looking at the Elring from ECS. There are people that says to stay away from the PTFE ones and I'm wondering why that is.

As for the installation, I just need to silicone the bottom of the flange where it meets the oil pan, right? Do I need some sort of special tool to install it? I've read that some VW's need a fancy alignment tool to install the rear main seal.

It's not currently leaking and I DON'T want to screw it up and have it leak AFTER everything's put back together.

[customa4]

^ Nice to know it can take it and that I've made a good choice.


What brand did you get? Genuine is way expensive. Looking at the Elring from ECS. There are people that says to stay away from the PTFE ones and I'm wondering why that is.

As for the installation, I just need to silicone the bottom of the flange where it meets the oil pan, right? Do I need some sort of special tool to install it? I've read that some VW's need a fancy alignment tool to install the rear main seal.

It's not currently leaking and I DON'T want to screw it up and have it leak AFTER everything's put back together.

Might be expensive but a rear main seal is one part you don't want to cheap out on, or install incorrectly. My OEM rear main seal came with a plastic guide in the center used for guiding the seal onto the engine. When I did my clutch I replaced the pilot bearing, throw out bearing, clutch disc, flywheel, pressure plate and hardware associated with those parts. It was also advised by OG to have these parts on hand which I replaced. The retainer, spring and ballpin were all broken on mine.

I was referring to all of the components associated with the clutch fork. When my clutch fork bent I replaced the fork along with the other three components that hold it in place. Probably overkill but other than the fork the rest of the components are probably well under $20 total for all three.

Clutch fork: 012 141 719 E
Lever retainer: 012 141 751 C
Spring: 012 141 741
Ball pin: 012 141 777 D

That would be part numbers 2, 3 and 8 in this pic that you posted in another thread;)




Any decent lithium based grease should be fine.

[GTA]

Thanks for the heads up. I intend to replace everything you had listed above except for the ball pin and lever retainer (items 2 & 3 above). I'm also replacing the rear main seal, transmission input shaft seal (item 6), and the rear coolant flange since I know it will fail eventually <-going genuine on this one. It's been said that it's easier to do from the rear of the engine.

I haven't had any issue with the clutch on my car so everything should be good; except for the clutch plate.

[Spike00513]

Shift rod seal DIY: Clicky

will reply more later

[OttawaWill]

I wonder which exact parts the name "Sachs" refers to for the Sachs kit. Because I believe Sachs is a clutch company, as in friction disc.
Not sure where ZF fits in the puzzle. Who makes what? Could ZF be a big parent company of LuK AND Sachs?
Doesn't LuK have a flywheel factory, at least for DMF's, in China? Or am I thinking of something else, such as Osram bulbs...

When I was doing some surfing and found myself in the ZF website I know their subsidiaries Incl. Sachs, LEMFÖRDER and TRW while Schaefflers subsidiaries Incl. LuK, INA and F.A.G.
Will

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[Axis]

Thanks for the heads up. I intend to replace everything you had listed above except for the ball pin and lever retainer (items 2 & 3 above). I'm also replacing the rear main seal, transmission input shaft seal (item 6), and the rear coolant flange since I know it will fail eventually <-going genuine on this one. It's been said that it's easier to do from the rear of the engine.

I haven't had any issue with the clutch on my car so everything should be good; except for the clutch plate.

Considered a solid coolant flange / J plug? Check with Issam in Ottawa

[GTA]

Did the swap to the Valeo SMF kit:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post12651852